Author Topic: The big bang theory is bs!  (Read 19855 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online nogodsforme

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 6240
  • Darwins +785/-4
  • Gender: Female
  • Jehovah's Witness Protection Program
Re: The big bang theory is bs!
« Reply #203 on: October 18, 2011, 04:07:33 PM »
I suggest you use your brain cells to acquire knowledge via evidence rather than use them to make stuff up.

What exactly did i make up ?

Pretty much everything you have said here.

Especially the part about a mysterious being outside of space and beyond time that somehow created time and space out of nothing and reached into the space and time and made the universe for no apparent reason out of more nothing and then as a kind of afterthought made the earth and everything on it out of the leftover bits of nothing and then explained this all to l'il ol' you. That part.

And the part where you alternate between knowing nothing and being agressively proud of not having to know anything, and then without evidence or explanation asserting that you know more than scientists about the origins of the universe.

And the part where you wonder why we don't just accept what you say as fact fact fact, just because, and stop asking questions, dammit!

I think we hope you are making all this up and don't really believe it. :?
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline C

  • Graduate
  • ****
  • Posts: 429
  • Darwins +26/-0
  • Counter-Theist Taskforce
Re: The big bang theory is bs!
« Reply #204 on: October 18, 2011, 04:50:15 PM »
I suggest you use your brain cells to acquire knowledge via evidence rather than use them to make stuff up.

What exactly did i make up ?

Could you just please give me concrete, irrefutable and non-contradictory evidence without you quoting massive blocks of words from dubious sources that your God is real, the Big Bang Theory is a load of bullocks, or whatever it is that you're trying to prove wrong/right?
The Second C

Offline Bellatrix

  • Freshman
  • *
  • Posts: 6
  • Darwins +0/-0
  • Gender: Female
  • The 11th plague is religion
Re: The big bang theory is bs!
« Reply #205 on: October 18, 2011, 07:47:07 PM »
That's one small step for Christianity; one giant leap for mankind.
   
After a 2000 year trial, evil Bible god has been found guilty of crimes against everything.   
   
Sentenced to be stripped of his crown, rocketed off and  incarcerated outside the universe for eternity.
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things ~ Isaiah 45:7

Offline 12 Monkeys

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 4418
  • Darwins +97/-11
  • Gender: Male
  • Dii hau dang ijii
Re: The big bang theory is bs!
« Reply #206 on: October 18, 2011, 08:06:19 PM »
Bellatrix....hell would be good enough for him (God)
There's no right there's no wrong,there's just popular opinion (Brad Pitt as Jeffery Goines in 12 monkeys)

Offline Hatter23

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 3880
  • Darwins +257/-7
  • Gender: Male
  • Doesn't believe in one more god than you
Re: The big bang theory is bs!
« Reply #207 on: October 19, 2011, 08:23:32 AM »
I suggest you use your brain cells to acquire knowledge via evidence rather than use them to make stuff up.

What exactly did i make up ?

All your Ad Hoc arguments to support your beggining the question of an appeal to ignorance.
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline Hatter23

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 3880
  • Darwins +257/-7
  • Gender: Male
  • Doesn't believe in one more god than you
Re: The big bang theory is bs!
« Reply #208 on: October 19, 2011, 08:26:29 AM »
No, my God exists without beginning, and without end. He exists eternally.

Convenient.  How do you know this?

because there was never a moment, where absolutely nothing existed. Otherwise, absolutely nothing would be still today, we would not be here. So something must have existed eternally, without beginning , and without a end. i call it God.

1) Special Pleading: You state the universe had to have a beginning and had to have been cause by an outside force....but not your God.

(2) Appeal to ignorance: The outside force must have been God

(3) Equivocation: The Creator god had to be Yahweh....you show your bait and switch intentions
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline Noman Peopled

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1904
  • Darwins +24/-1
  • Gender: Male
  • [insert wittycism]
Re: The big bang theory is bs!
« Reply #209 on: October 19, 2011, 05:33:45 PM »
(3) Equivocation: The Creator god had to be Yahweh....you show your bait and switch intentions
Do correct me if necessary but as far as I understand it, equivocation is something different: taking two homonymous words to be synonymous. As in:
- all feathers are light
- what's light isn't dark
- no feathers are dark

I'm not sure what I'd call your (3) although it's clearly a fallacy. Or, as they say on the internet, a fail.[1]
 1. When in Rome ...
"Deferinate" itself appears to be a new word... though I'm perfectly carmotic with it.
-xphobe

Offline Godexists

  • Graduate
  • ****
  • Posts: 332
  • Darwins +0/-65
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
  • User posts join approval queueModerated
Re: The big bang theory is bs!
« Reply #210 on: October 19, 2011, 05:56:06 PM »
I suggest you use your brain cells to acquire knowledge via evidence rather than use them to make stuff up.

What exactly did i make up ?

Pretty much everything you have said here.

Especially the part about a mysterious being outside of space and beyond time that somehow created time and space out of nothing and reached into the space and time and made the universe for no apparent reason out of more nothing and then as a kind of afterthought made the earth and everything on it out of the leftover bits of nothing and then explained this all to l'il ol' you. That part.

And the part where you alternate between knowing nothing and being agressively proud of not having to know anything, and then without evidence or explanation asserting that you know more than scientists about the origins of the universe.

And the part where you wonder why we don't just accept what you say as fact fact fact, just because, and stop asking questions, dammit!

I think we hope you are making all this up and don't really believe it. :?

so why do you think i am making it up, if i have presented the reasons behind it. And : what do you suggest as a better explanation ?

Offline velkyn

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 15420
  • Darwins +169/-6
  • Gender: Female
  • You're wearing the juice, aren't you?"
Re: The big bang theory is bs!
« Reply #211 on: October 19, 2011, 06:02:54 PM »
so why do you think i am making it up, if i have presented the reasons behind it. And : what do you suggest as a better explanation ?

you have no evidence.  Your nonsense is used by all theists to explain their particular gods.  and saying we don't know something is perfectly fine, rather than claiming that your particular god "did everything". 
"There is no use in arguing with a man who can multiply anything by the square root of minus 1" - Pirates of Venus, ERB

http://clubschadenfreude.wordpress.com/

Offline Godexists

  • Graduate
  • ****
  • Posts: 332
  • Darwins +0/-65
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
  • User posts join approval queueModerated
Re: The big bang theory is bs!
« Reply #212 on: October 19, 2011, 08:35:43 PM »

Could you just please give me concrete, irrefutable and non-contradictory evidence without you quoting massive blocks of words from dubious sources that your God is real, the Big Bang Theory is a load of bullocks, or whatever it is that you're trying to prove wrong/right?

Could you present a alternative scenario to the one i presented, which is more likely to have happened, and your reasons behind it ?

Offline Godexists

  • Graduate
  • ****
  • Posts: 332
  • Darwins +0/-65
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
  • User posts join approval queueModerated
Re: The big bang theory is bs!
« Reply #213 on: October 19, 2011, 08:37:12 PM »
you have no evidence.  Your nonsense is used by all theists to explain their particular gods.  and saying we don't know something is perfectly fine, rather than claiming that your particular god "did everything".

If its perfectly fine to you, and your ignorance satisfies you, keep it , and go on with it. One day you will know the truth. If you are wrong however, it might be too late to change opinion.....

Offline Godexists

  • Graduate
  • ****
  • Posts: 332
  • Darwins +0/-65
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
  • User posts join approval queueModerated
Re: The big bang theory is bs!
« Reply #214 on: October 19, 2011, 08:38:29 PM »

What exactly did i make up ?


Pretty much everything you have said here.


present a better explanation.

Online One Above All

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 10610
  • Darwins +266/-34
  • Gender: Male
  • Supreme ruler of the multiverse; All In One
Re: The big bang theory is bs!
« Reply #215 on: October 19, 2011, 08:42:00 PM »

Could you just please give me concrete, irrefutable and non-contradictory evidence without you quoting massive blocks of words from dubious sources that your God is real, the Big Bang Theory is a load of bullocks, or whatever it is that you're trying to prove wrong/right?

Could you present a alternative scenario to the one i presented, which is more likely to have happened, and your reasons behind it ?

Could you stop dodging?
Still, here's an answer to your many fallacies: There are nearly infinite scenarios that we can imagine for just about anything. Add a couple hundred million we can't imagine and we have a shitload of scenarios. You're assuming there are only two, which is called a false dichotomy.
However, even IF there were only two, just because you refuse to search for evidence (which supports BBT, by the way) or just can't understand it doesn't make it false. It just means you're being dishonest.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken_rjcf/Lucifer/All In One.

Online One Above All

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 10610
  • Darwins +266/-34
  • Gender: Male
  • Supreme ruler of the multiverse; All In One
Re: The big bang theory is bs!
« Reply #216 on: October 19, 2011, 08:44:50 PM »

What exactly did i make up ?


Pretty much everything you have said here.


present a better explanation.

Here's a better explanation: I created the universe almost 14 billion years ago just for shits and giggles, but life developed in it, which I hadn't foreseen. Now I walk among you, observing and judging whether I should obliterate the entire universe or not.

You can't prove me wrong, therefore my explanation is better than yours.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken_rjcf/Lucifer/All In One.

Offline C

  • Graduate
  • ****
  • Posts: 429
  • Darwins +26/-0
  • Counter-Theist Taskforce
Re: The big bang theory is bs!
« Reply #217 on: October 19, 2011, 09:07:23 PM »
Quote
Could you present a alternative scenario to the one i presented, which is more likely to have happened, and your reasons behind it ?

Could you actually stop skirting around and just give proof since the onus is on you as you are the one who claims that there is a sort of god and not me? Mmkay, thanks.

Quote
If its perfectly fine to you, and your ignorance satisfies you, keep it , and go on with it. One day you will know the truth. If you are wrong however, it might be too late to change opinion.....

I don't know Godexists, it's not too late to convert to Hinduism or maybe Zoroastrianism before it's too late and you wind up in a cold cold place after you die  ;) Don't worry, one day you will grow right up out of silly Christianity and into adulthood as a priest for the Great And Mighty TumTums.

Quote
present a better explanation

Once upon a time, the ancients predicted that the savior of mankind will be born in this world. His birth would be symbolized by a big, great shiny star in the skies. The god was indeed born but was betrayed by one close to him and subsequently was killed. Grieving people tucked his corpse away until on the 3rd day after he died, he rose again to be all badass and judge the dead and stuff, then he rose up to reign in heaven after the resurrection.

This is a very comprehensive account of Je-, oh wait, what's that you say? It's the story of Osiris? AND Dionysus, Mithra along with a few dozen other deities? Goodness!
The Second C

Offline Hatter23

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 3880
  • Darwins +257/-7
  • Gender: Male
  • Doesn't believe in one more god than you
Re: The big bang theory is bs!
« Reply #218 on: October 19, 2011, 09:40:46 PM »
(3) Equivocation: The Creator god had to be Yahweh....you show your bait and switch intentions
Do correct me if necessary but as far as I understand it, equivocation is something different: taking two homonymous words to be synonymous. As in:
- all feathers are light
- what's light isn't dark
- no feathers are dark

I'm not sure what I'd call your (3) although it's clearly a fallacy. Or, as they say on the internet, a fail.[1]
 1. When in Rome ...

It is still a type of equivocation:

Criminal actions are illegal, and all murder trials are criminal actions, thus all murder trials are illegal.

Notice "Criminal actions" actually has two different meanings here.

All equivocations fallacies are based around a word or phrase that has multiple meanings and using one meaning in your premise, and another in your conclusion. The meaning shift here is to make a case for the Deist god, and thus follow up that it is the god of Christendom.
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline JeffPT

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1984
  • Darwins +187/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm a lead farmer mutha fucka
Re: The big bang theory is bs!
« Reply #219 on: October 19, 2011, 10:19:49 PM »
These types of arguments from theists are some of the worst ones there are. 

Look, Godexists. I think everyone in their right mind would be willing to acknowledge the possibility that a supernatural force gave birth to our universe.  Given the massive lack of evidence to back up that theory, is the supernatural theory the most plausible one? No.  Not even close.  Why? Because the only evidence we can currently gather in any way, shape or form comes from THIS universe.  So you must first decide whether or not you consider what we find inside THIS universe to be a representative sample of what may exist outside of this universe.  If you say, "No, the evidence within this universe is not representative of what exists outside of it", then the entire process is just a guessing game. If you say, "This universe is the only universe there is," then again, you are forced into a guessing game. BUT, if you say that you are willing to look at evidence from within this universe to determine the makeup of what exists outside this universe, then you are forced to first assume that what exists outside this universe is not supernatural.  Because what science has discovered is that this universe appears to work in very natural ways.  No hand of God is necessary to explain anything anymore.

If you are looking for alternate possibilities as to how our universe got it's start, I can give you a couple.  One possibility is that our universe is one of many in a sea of universes, and at one point in time, 2 universes collided to form this one.  Another possibility is that our universe is the ejected material from a giant black hole.  Another possibility is that our universe is nothing but a single cell from a giant organism that resides in a universe which is also just a single cell from an even more giant organism and so on, and so on.  All of those are more likely scenarios than the Christian God theory for one simple reason.  They are natural explanations... the same type we use to explain things here in this universe.  And if you decide to refute any of those theories with scientific inquiry, then you must apply that same level of scientific scrutiny to your Christian God theory and accept that a massive lack of verifiable evidence makes that theory an unlikely candidate for the first place prize.   

The bottom line is this... There is no reason to accept the notion that the Christian God created everything.  None. Zero.  Zilch.  It's a guess.  And a really bad one.  Any and all supernatural explanations are just examples of antique thinking.  It's the same type of thinking that ancient man used when they couldn't understand thunder or lightning.  "Gee, I don't know where those flashes in the sky are coming from, so I'm going to assume there's a magic sky man up there doing it."  This is the same thing you are doing, only with a more modern topic.  "Gee, I don't know how the universe got it's start, so I'm going to assume there's a magic sky man who did it."  Science has pushed God into that realm by consistently discovering how the world REALLY works.  We don't say God created lightning anymore because it's not a good explanation.  Why do you think it's a good explanation for the beginning of the universe?  Just because science hasn't figured it out yet?  Please... that's just nonsense. 

And even if you find some sort of evidence that the universe was created by a supernatural force, every bit of work is still ahead of you in determining what force it was.  If you honestly think the Christian version of things would get some sort of preferential treatment in that respect, then I don't know what to say to you.  I could just call you arrogant and egotistical, but those would be understatements.       

FYI, God isn't real.  Bank on it.  The whole thing is fake.  Don't take it personally; there's a whole bunch of people who buy into the foolishness just like you do. 
Whenever events that are purported to occur in our best interest are as numerous as the events that will just as soon kill us, then intent is hard, if not impossible to assert. NDT

Offline Emily

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 5657
  • Darwins +49/-0
  • Gender: Female
Re: The big bang theory is bs!
« Reply #220 on: October 19, 2011, 10:52:10 PM »
It's kind of hard to think about how we got here. I mean, it can be difficult to even think about how this massive universe can be either created by some deity or formed through natural processes. But the following men have taken great strides to providing evidence for their claim;



where creationists have not even begun to do so scientifically. Creation scientists stop in their tracks when it comes time to prove their conclusion (that their idea of god is the cause of the universe), when real scientists, like the cosmologists trying to go beyond the Planck epoch,  go further to provide evidence to support their claims behind why the universe was 'created' through nature.

"Great moments are born from great opportunities." Herb Brooks

I edit a lot of my posts. The reason being it to add content or to correct grammar/wording. All edits to remove wording get a strike through through the wording.

Offline Azdgari

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 12210
  • Darwins +267/-31
  • Gender: Male
Re: The big bang theory is bs!
« Reply #221 on: October 19, 2011, 11:05:01 PM »
If its perfectly fine to you, and your ignorance satisfies you, keep it , and go on with it. One day you will know the truth. If you are wrong however, it might be too late to change opinion.....

Same to you.  What will you do if you end up being tortured for eternity for your beliefs, while the true god decides to have mercy on the skeptics?
The highest moral human authority is copied by our Gandhi neurons through observation.

Offline Noman Peopled

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1904
  • Darwins +24/-1
  • Gender: Male
  • [insert wittycism]
Re: The big bang theory is bs!
« Reply #222 on: October 20, 2011, 02:49:46 AM »
It is still a type of equivocation
True, thanks for the explanation.
"Deferinate" itself appears to be a new word... though I'm perfectly carmotic with it.
-xphobe

Offline plethora

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 3456
  • Darwins +60/-1
  • Gender: Male
  • Metalhead, Family Man, IT Admin & Anti-Theist \m/
Re: The big bang theory is bs!
« Reply #223 on: October 20, 2011, 04:30:13 AM »
present a better explanation.

Whether the big bang was caused or uncaused is currently unknown.

When something is unknown, it means we don't have an explanation for it.

... and "we" includes you.

You don't get to pull 'explanations' out of your ass and expect everyone to just accept them without evidence.
The truth doesn't give a shit about our feelings.

Offline Anfauglir

  • Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 6198
  • Darwins +407/-5
  • Gender: Male
Re: The big bang theory is bs!
« Reply #224 on: October 20, 2011, 05:15:51 AM »
One day you will know the truth. If you are wrong however, it might be too late to change opinion.....

Ah, I wondered when we'd get to the threats about what will happen if we honestly don't believe in the loving, caring god that created and loves us all and dearly wants a relationship with us....he'll send us away for eternal torture rather than (as might perhaps being more logical for a loving omnipotent being who wants a relationship with us) say, knocking on the door and introducing himself.

Nope, this caring loving god would rather hide and drop "clues", and - despite having loyal servants on earth like yourself - will not provide any evidence of his existence.

No matter how often we ask for it.
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline plethora

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 3456
  • Darwins +60/-1
  • Gender: Male
  • Metalhead, Family Man, IT Admin & Anti-Theist \m/
Re: The big bang theory is bs!
« Reply #225 on: October 20, 2011, 05:29:08 AM »
If its perfectly fine to you, and your ignorance satisfies you, keep it , and go on with it. One day you will know the truth. If you are wrong however, it might be too late to change opinion.....

This statement implies that you will be taking pleasure in knowing that we will be unforgivable and punished for all eternity while you enjoy eternal heavenly bliss.

For that ... get fucked, asshole.
The truth doesn't give a shit about our feelings.

Offline Godexists

  • Graduate
  • ****
  • Posts: 332
  • Darwins +0/-65
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
  • User posts join approval queueModerated
Re: The big bang theory is bs!
« Reply #226 on: October 20, 2011, 04:53:35 PM »
If its perfectly fine to you, and your ignorance satisfies you, keep it , and go on with it. One day you will know the truth. If you are wrong however, it might be too late to change opinion.....

This statement implies that you will be taking pleasure in knowing that we will be unforgivable and punished for all eternity while you enjoy eternal heavenly bliss.

For that ... get fucked, asshole.

what do you think i am here for ? Just to give you the chance to avoid that destiny........ If God does not exist, injustice definitively will prevail and win. What do you believe : would it be right, Gaddhafi, which died today, not to be brought to justice, to pay for all the crimes he commited to innocent people ? If God does not exist, he will not have been brought to trial,  everything ends today. He died. End of story. That is simply NOT right. If God however exists, he will become exactly what he deserves. Unfortunately not here on earth, but on the other side of reality..... I know, this is not a argument for Gods existence. But if you WISH God not to exist, then you are for injustice to prevail. Sad , sad....
« Last Edit: October 20, 2011, 04:55:50 PM by Godexists »

Offline Godexists

  • Graduate
  • ****
  • Posts: 332
  • Darwins +0/-65
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
  • User posts join approval queueModerated
Re: The big bang theory is bs!
« Reply #227 on: October 20, 2011, 04:58:20 PM »
One day you will know the truth. If you are wrong however, it might be too late to change opinion.....

Ah, I wondered when we'd get to the threats about what will happen if we honestly don't believe in the loving, caring god that created and loves us all and dearly wants a relationship with us....he'll send us away for eternal torture rather than (as might perhaps being more logical for a loving omnipotent being who wants a relationship with us) say, knocking on the door and introducing himself.

Nope, this caring loving god would rather hide and drop "clues", and - despite having loyal servants on earth like yourself - will not provide any evidence of his existence.

No matter how often we ask for it.

Your ignorance will not change the fact, that there is more evidence for Gods existence, than ever before in human history. Your position does not withstand rational scrutiny, therefore you can justify it only based on emotional reasons, on wishful thinking, God not to exist.

Offline Godexists

  • Graduate
  • ****
  • Posts: 332
  • Darwins +0/-65
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
  • User posts join approval queueModerated
Re: The big bang theory is bs!
« Reply #228 on: October 20, 2011, 04:59:41 PM »
present a better explanation.

Whether the big bang was caused or uncaused is currently unknown.

When something is unknown, it means we don't have an explanation for it.

... and "we" includes you.

You don't get to pull 'explanations' out of your ass and expect everyone to just accept them without evidence.

If the universe had a beginning, and all scientific evidence points toward that direction, then it must have had a cause. From absolutely nothing, nothing derives.

Online nogodsforme

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 6240
  • Darwins +785/-4
  • Gender: Female
  • Jehovah's Witness Protection Program
Re: The big bang theory is bs!
« Reply #229 on: October 20, 2011, 05:12:40 PM »
present a better explanation.

Whether the big bang was caused or uncaused is currently unknown.

When something is unknown, it means we don't have an explanation for it.

... and "we" includes you.

You don't get to pull 'explanations' out of your ass and expect everyone to just accept them without evidence.

If the universe had a beginning, and all scientific evidence points toward that direction, then it must have had a cause. From absolutely nothing, nothing derives.
The universe might have had a cause-- I don't think anyone here has a problem with that concept. Scientists are fascinated with finding things like that out and I for one love to hear about what they know. So far, the BBT seems to have the most concrete evidence.

The problem comes when you claim to know way more than any scientist about this possible cause: what that cause was, what its name is, what it thinks about shellfish and what it likes for human beings to do with their genitalia. When the only evidence you have for this knowledge is the same kind of ancient mythical story every other religion offers, why should we take you seriously?
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline Godexists

  • Graduate
  • ****
  • Posts: 332
  • Darwins +0/-65
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
  • User posts join approval queueModerated
Re: The big bang theory is bs!
« Reply #230 on: October 20, 2011, 05:16:02 PM »
Look, Godexists. I think everyone in their right mind would be willing to acknowledge the possibility that a supernatural force gave birth to our universe.  Given the massive lack of evidence to back up that theory

there was never more evidence than before, that our universe had a beginning. therefore it must have had a cause.

Quote
, is the supernatural theory the most plausible one? No.  Not even close.  Why? Because the only evidence we can currently gather in any way, shape or form comes from THIS universe.

Non sequitur. Our very own universe shows us, that it had most probably a beginning. Therefore a cause.



 
Quote
So you must first decide whether or not you consider what we find inside THIS universe to be a representative sample of what may exist outside of this universe.

ok. Fine tuned universe. Information in DNA. Morals. Religious experience. All point toward God.  :)

 
Quote
If you say, "No, the evidence within this universe is not representative of what exists outside of it", then the entire process is just a guessing game. If you say, "This universe is the only universe there is," then again, you are forced into a guessing game. BUT, if you say that you are willing to look at evidence from within this universe to determine the makeup of what exists outside this universe, then you are forced to first assume that what exists outside this universe is not supernatural.

everything outside this universe is by definition supernatural.


  Because what science has discovered is that this universe appears to work in very natural ways.  No hand of God is necessary to explain anything anymore.

Quote
  One possibility is that our universe is one of many in a sea of universes, and at one point in time, 2 universes collided to form this one.

Where these universes exisiting eternally, or did they have a beginning ? And , what evidence is there to back up this possibility ?




 
Quote
Another possibility is that our universe is the ejected material from a giant black hole.  Another possibility is that our universe is nothing but a single cell from a giant organism that resides in a universe which is also just a single cell from an even more giant organism and so on, and so on.

any evidence ? and when did it start ? and what started it ?





Offline Godexists

  • Graduate
  • ****
  • Posts: 332
  • Darwins +0/-65
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
  • User posts join approval queueModerated
Re: The big bang theory is bs!
« Reply #231 on: October 20, 2011, 05:20:11 PM »
present a better explanation.

Whether the big bang was caused or uncaused is currently unknown.

When something is unknown, it means we don't have an explanation for it.

... and "we" includes you.

You don't get to pull 'explanations' out of your ass and expect everyone to just accept them without evidence.

If the universe had a beginning, and all scientific evidence points toward that direction, then it must have had a cause. From absolutely nothing, nothing derives.
The universe might have had a cause-- I don't think anyone here has a problem with that concept. Scientists are fascinated with finding things like that out and I for one love to hear about what they know. So far, the BBT seems to have the most concrete evidence.

The problem comes when you claim to know way more than any scientist about this possible cause: what that cause was, what its name is, what it thinks about shellfish and what it likes for human beings to do with their genitalia. When the only evidence you have for this knowledge is the same kind of ancient mythical story every other religion offers, why should we take you seriously?

i make my argument out of scientific evidence. i don't need the bible or any other religious book to do so. If science points toward a beginning of the universe, and time, space, and matter were created at the Big Bang, than it is logical and obvious, that the cause must be above these elements. So it must 

http://www.debate.org/debates/The-Kalam-Cosmological-Argument-for-the-Existence-of-God-is-Sound/1/

 transcend space both matter and time to create both matter and time. It must also be changeless, since there was no time prior to the creation of the universe. Interestingly enough, this also lends credibility to the notion that the cause was personal, for how else could a timeless cause give rise to a temporal effect? It seems that the only way this could be possible is if the cause was a free agent who has the ability to effect a change; for if the cause of the universe was impersonal, then it would not have created. Finally, in order to create the universe ex nihilo, this cause must be enormously powerful, if not omnipotent.