Author Topic: Islam [#912]  (Read 1056 times)

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Offline DL

Islam [#912]
« on: January 10, 2009, 05:58:32 PM »

You video, "How do we Christians are delusional" , it's interesting, but you kinda got the Muslim part wrong. I don't want to be mean, but ya.

Offline Dkit

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Re: Islam [#912]
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2009, 06:04:19 PM »
I don't recall the part to which you are referring.  Would you mind coming here to discuss it?
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Offline Hermes

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Re: Islam [#912]
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2009, 06:20:16 PM »
The brief part mentioning that the Muslims are in their own bubble of delusion seemed right to me.  If you are a pantheist, then you can argue otherwise, but as you did not object to the Christians being called out I'm thinking you are not a pantheist.
Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons. --Michael Shermer

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Offline DL

Re: Islam [#912]
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2009, 06:38:00 PM »
OP responds via email:

---

Hi, quick question,

I made my own account on the forum, but i never got the verification.

Also, what is your view on Israel vs. Gaza.

I asked my Muslim friend, Jewish friend, and Christian friend, and i thought you buddy, would be the perfect atheist candidate to ask.

Like, who is at fault. And if you were Obama, what would you do when you take office.

I'm doing an experiment on what people of different background say.(particularly religion)

Offline Ashe

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Re: Islam [#912]
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2009, 07:59:45 PM »
Can you be more specific? Which detail(s) was/were wrong?
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Offline Hermes

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Re: Islam [#912]
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2009, 08:00:54 PM »
My opinion?  It would be less of a problem if they didn't mix religion in with it.
Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons. --Michael Shermer

The history of religion is a long attempt to reconcile old custom with new reason, to find a sound theory for an absurd practice.  --Sir James George Frazer

Offline SomeGirl

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Re: Islam [#912]
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2009, 08:12:07 PM »
Sorry it took so long to reply back.

O.K

Lets start off with the basics.
The video is made by a atheist, but an honest one.
Still he is an atheist, and so, you will already know it will be kind of  unneutral, no matter how factual.
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Offline Tails_155

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Re: Islam [#912]
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2009, 08:58:41 PM »
I'm neutral to religion, as long as it doesn't force itself on me, I have NO problem with any personal beliefs, I have no problem with a rational religious person, but extremists, and anyone who is trying to convince me I am wrong I will bellow back at them, but mine will have science to back it up, not some nonupdated (aside from book omission) book from the ages of dirt
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Offline Hermes

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Re: Islam [#912]
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2009, 10:58:29 PM »
Sorry it took so long to reply back.

O.K

Lets start off with the basics.
The video is made by a atheist, but an honest one.
Still he is an atheist, and so, you will already know it will be kind of  unneutral, no matter how factual.

I'm a bit disturbed when you tie honesty, neutrality, and atheism together.  While it is true that anyone can lie, and we all have personal biases, the question atheists tend to ask theists is very simple; show me.   Meanwhile, theists make claims that are largely unsubstantiated and ignore the requests for evidence.

Personally, if someone were to show me that one or more god(s) are more likely than not, I'd no longer be an atheist.  Meanwhile, many theists are not as willing to deal with facts and instead point to faith -- something they don't do anywhere else in their lives.

How much more honest or neutral can atheists be without accepting all sorts of unsubstantiated claims like crystal healing powers and homeopathy and astrology as well?  The request "show me" can be satisfied by anyone who really knows what they are talking about on just about any subject.

Everything and everyone exists in a context.  Part of that context, though, is reality.  Most atheists do not say there are no gods and we know it.  Instead, they say there are no gods since that fits with what we know of reality.   Well, how does that differ from a theist; Muslim, Christian, Hindu, Scientologist, ... ?  In the case of the theists, they can't share what they assert is true about reality.  If they could, there would be only one religion and there would be no atheists -- well, if we limit ourselves to sane people who are interested in reality.

So, have you heard that atheists in general are dishonest or biased -- even bigoted?

Do you think that is justified?  If so, why?
Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons. --Michael Shermer

The history of religion is a long attempt to reconcile old custom with new reason, to find a sound theory for an absurd practice.  --Sir James George Frazer

Offline Ashe

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Re: Islam [#912]
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2009, 12:36:12 PM »
No basics needed for my question. :) I'm just curious to know which part he got wrong for the Muslim portion of the video.
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Offline velkyn

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Re: Islam [#912]
« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2009, 01:06:20 PM »
OP responds via email:

---

Hi, quick question,

I made my own account on the forum, but i never got the verification.

Also, what is your view on Israel vs. Gaza.

atheism doesn't give us one way to think.  I personally think that it is a shame that humans can kill each other over a piece of land that they think their invisible friend "gave" them. 

"There is no use in arguing with a man who can multiply anything by the square root of minus 1" - Pirates of Venus, ERB

http://clubschadenfreude.wordpress.com/

Offline Nick

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Re: Islam [#912]
« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2009, 01:45:35 PM »
Agreed!  And it is not much of a piece of land.  God could have least put some oil under it.
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

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Offline singlecrochet

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Re: Islam [#912]
« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2009, 03:28:36 PM »

atheism doesn't give us one way to think.  I personally think that it is a shame that humans can kill each other over a piece of land that they think their invisible friend "gave" them. 



AGREED!!
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Offline SomeGirl

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Re: Islam [#912]
« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2009, 10:44:31 PM »
"So, have you heard that atheists in general are dishonest or biased -- even bigoted?"

NOOOOOO!!!!! Don't get me wrong, that's not what I meant.
But this is a perfect example of something I really hate in this world. It's hard for me to explain, i'll try though
Just because people belong to a certain group(can't find a better word) that doesn't mean they are all like that. Just because i'm a Muslim, does it mean i'm a terrorist, just because your an athiest, does it mean your a bad person. You probably don't get what i'm trying to say, so i'll just drop it.

P.S How do you do that quote thingy?
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Offline SomeGirl

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Re: Islam [#912]
« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2009, 10:56:48 PM »
Part 2:

4:16 " ...he sees a bright flash of light just like Jo did. There is also a talking angel, sounds familiar doesn't it."

This part is primarly on the angel part. This part also kind of offended me.
The part about the angel. In Islam, we dont know how angels look. But what we do know is that they are made of light. Fastforward to after everything happened, he sprinted home to his wife, Kadija, but quickly glanced back and SAW THAT ONE OF ANGEL GABRIEL'S WINGS COVERED THE WHOLE HORIZON.
And the picture at 4:19 was of a brunette lady, full gormet, and wings. Now seriously, what kind of picture does this leave in your mind? 
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Offline realdemocracy

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Re: Islam [#912]
« Reply #15 on: January 13, 2009, 11:25:11 PM »
Part 2:

4:16 " ...he sees a bright flash of light just like Jo did. There is also a talking angel, sounds familiar doesn't it."

This part is primarly on the angel part. This part also kind of offended me.
The part about the angel. In Islam, we dont know how angels look. But what we do know is that they are made of light. Fastforward to after everything happened, he sprinted home to his wife, Kadija, but quickly glanced back and SAW THAT ONE OF ANGEL GABRIEL'S WINGS COVERED THE WHOLE HORIZON.
And the picture at 4:19 was of a brunette lady, full gormet, and wings. Now seriously, what kind of picture does this leave in your mind? 

I definitely do not understand what you are trying to say.  What is a gormet?  Maybe if I knew that, it would make more sense to me. Regardless, it seems to me the question is what kind of picture it leaves in your mind.  If you could see the whole thing from an atheist perspective, you would see that it does not matter what the angel looks like.  What matters is that after thousands of years of human civilization and hundreds of years of consecutive scientific advancement, there has not been a single documented and verifiable example of an angelic visit.  Certainly, if angels are real, they could affect things here in the real world and provide evidence of their existence, and lend credence to the existence of god.  Certainly god, if there is one, would be able to do the same, yet there has been absolutely zero verifiable evidence of god or angels, so why should it matter how someone draws an imaginary figure?

Offline omniweasel

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Re: Islam [#912]
« Reply #16 on: January 13, 2009, 11:57:59 PM »
"So, have you heard that atheists in general are dishonest or biased -- even bigoted?"

NOOOOOO!!!!! Don't get me wrong, that's not what I meant.
But this is a perfect example of something I really hate in this world. It's hard for me to explain, i'll try though
Just because people belong to a certain group(can't find a better word) that doesn't mean they are all like that. Just because i'm a Muslim, does it mean i'm a terrorist, just because your an athiest, does it mean your a bad person. You probably don't get what i'm trying to say, so i'll just drop it.

P.S How do you do that quote thingy?
on the tools part of the post reply screen there's a little text bubble, second row, second to the end, highlight the text you want to do the quote thing on and push that button or if you want to quote a whole post, push the quote button on the upper right hand corner of the post.

Offline Hermes

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Re: Islam [#912]
« Reply #17 on: January 14, 2009, 08:22:01 AM »
P.S How do you do that quote thingy?

Check your mail...
Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons. --Michael Shermer

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Offline velkyn

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Re: Islam [#912]
« Reply #18 on: January 14, 2009, 12:22:34 PM »
Part 2:

4:16 " ...he sees a bright flash of light just like Jo did. There is also a talking angel, sounds familiar doesn't it."

This part is primarly on the angel part. This part also kind of offended me.
The part about the angel. In Islam, we dont know how angels look. But what we do know is that they are made of light. Fastforward to after everything happened, he sprinted home to his wife, Kadija, but quickly glanced back and SAW THAT ONE OF ANGEL GABRIEL'S WINGS COVERED THE WHOLE HORIZON.
And the picture at 4:19 was of a brunette lady, full gormet, and wings. Now seriously, what kind of picture does this leave in your mind? 


do you realize that saying "we don't know how angels look" and following it by stating that angels have been seen is quite a contradiction? 
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Offline SomeGirl

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Re: Islam [#912]
« Reply #19 on: January 14, 2009, 06:17:02 PM »
Quote
on the tools part of the post reply screen there's a little text bubble, second row, second to the end, highlight the text you want to do the quote thing on and push that button or if you want to quote a whole post, push the quote button on the upper right hand corner of the post.

Thank you...
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Offline SomeGirl

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Re: Islam [#912]
« Reply #20 on: January 14, 2009, 06:20:48 PM »
Quote
I definitely do not understand what you are trying to say.  What is a gormet? 

Sorry, that was a mistake, i meant the cloths, i was just describing the angel in the video.
*dress(that's what I meant)
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Offline SomeGirl

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Re: Islam [#912]
« Reply #21 on: January 14, 2009, 06:28:23 PM »
Quote
do you realize that saying "we don't know how angels look" and following it by stating that angels have been seen is quite a contradiction?

Sorry, i'm still learning.(about Islam) I don't ever recall knowing how an angel looks.
But what your saying is true, than could you explain it to me please, i'll ask my dad as well.(I should've before I even posted that)

BUT PRETTY MUCH EVERYBODY IS MISSING THE POINT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
My original comment was that the video on the Islam part was kinda wrong. part 2 of why I think that. But to make it shorter, the picture in the video is of a lady. AND AN ANGEL I KNOW FOR 100%, DOES NOT LOOK LIKE A LADY!!! OR NAKED LITTLE BABIES IF THAT'S WHAT YOUR PICTURING TOO. PLEASE DONT MIX ISLAM WITH CHRISTIANITY.
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Offline singlecrochet

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Re: Islam [#912]
« Reply #22 on: January 14, 2009, 07:12:58 PM »
It seems to me YOU'RE missing the point.  If we don't know what an angel looks like (if we're going to pretend there is such a thing) and we want to represent it in a visual form, then we have to use SOMETHING.  Those are just pictures, representing an idea.  Do you understand that?
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Offline L6

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Re: Islam [#912]
« Reply #23 on: January 14, 2009, 07:25:04 PM »
I'm pretty sure angels look like this:

God's existence is contingent upon the illusion that morality is dictated by religious authority.

Offline Ashe

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Re: Islam [#912]
« Reply #24 on: January 14, 2009, 09:30:18 PM »
Yeah, I'm quite sure it's the words that are important, not the pictures on the screen. I wouldn't count that as wrong information about Islam. :-/
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Offline realdemocracy

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Re: Islam [#912]
« Reply #25 on: January 15, 2009, 01:14:09 AM »
Quote
AN ANGEL I KNOW FOR 100%, DOES NOT LOOK LIKE A LADY!!!
How do you know? and how can you be so certain about this, when you also say things like
Quote
we dont know how angels look
and
Quote
Sorry, i'm still learning.(about Islam) I don't ever recall knowing how an angel looks.

Offline velkyn

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Re: Islam [#912]
« Reply #26 on: January 15, 2009, 01:45:09 PM »
Quote
do you realize that saying "we don't know how angels look" and following it by stating that angels have been seen is quite a contradiction?

Sorry, i'm still learning.(about Islam) I don't ever recall knowing how an angel looks.
But what your saying is true, than could you explain it to me please, i'll ask my dad as well.(I should've before I even posted that)

BUT PRETTY MUCH EVERYBODY IS MISSING THE POINT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
My original comment was that the video on the Islam part was kinda wrong. part 2 of why I think that. But to make it shorter, the picture in the video is of a lady. AND AN ANGEL I KNOW FOR 100%, DOES NOT LOOK LIKE A LADY!!! OR NAKED LITTLE BABIES IF THAT'S WHAT YOUR PICTURING TOO. PLEASE DONT MIX ISLAM WITH CHRISTIANITY.

Well, from what I understand, some sects of Islam would forbid any images of angels or houris, or whatever.  If you've seen a part of an angel, you've seen an angel adn know at least what part of it looks like. 

Many Islamic Persian manuscripts have angels on them.  IMO, they are much more beautiful than Christian angels.  This is The Archangel Gabriel inspiring Mohammed in the mosque of medina, copy from an 8th century Koran  http://www.bridgemanartondemand.com/art/188356/The_Archangel_Gabriel_inspiring_Mohammed_in_the_mosque_of_medina  Mohammed's face is not shown.

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Offline SomeGirl

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Re: Islam [#912]
« Reply #27 on: January 18, 2009, 09:37:38 PM »
About angels in Islam.
Just go to this site, says a lot.

http://www.sunna.info/Lessons/islam_331.html

Hope it explains some of your questions.
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