Author Topic: Hi there [#925]  (Read 485 times)

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Offline DL

Hi there [#925]
« on: January 13, 2009, 08:02:16 PM »
Hi there,

I really love your videos and have forwarded them to all my
nutty religious friends for their thoughts on the subject.
I do know of one couple who probably won't allow themselves
to finish even one of the videos.  LOL  You know the kind.
They won't allow anything to challenge their thinking.

I was just curious about what you believe happens in death?
I believe we are just gonna be dirt, and that's it.  I can't believe
in an afterlife, although I understand the wanting to believe in that.
Your thoughts?

Sincerely,
[name]
[address]

Offline Nick

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Re: Hi there [#925]
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2009, 08:49:12 PM »
Dirt is about all there is.  Enjoy the life you have.
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

Tide goes in, tide goes out !!!

Offline Hermes

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Re: Hi there [#925]
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2009, 09:01:48 PM »
Regardless of what I wish to be true, I have to accept reality for what it is.  Here is a thread in the forums that I discussed what we know;

Source: http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php?topic=3640.msg76574#msg76574



Quote
[ Question asked by Tate: "How Do You KNOW That There Is No Afterlife? ]

Great question Tate.  I've answered this one quite a few times before and there are no responses so far that have addressed the facts I've listed -- all just jump back to 'well, it could be ______'.  Well, I'm not speculating or fantasizing, so if you respond I expect that you to not speculate or make wild guesses either.  Facts only.  Does that work for you?

Here's what we know (corrections on known facts or additional facts are appreciated);

Please let me know if you see any gaps (I know of a couple plus the text needs to be polished a bit);

Claim: Based on what we know, not what we guess or speculate, the afterlife is a fabrication; there is no such place.

Why?  Think about what we know.  Think about what we do not need to speculate about -- on both life and death.

1. Death is not a clear line; on one side alive, on the other completely dead. 

Death happens in stages as individual cells no longer retain integrity for a variety of reasons, often because of oxygen starvation from organ failure or trauma that prevents the blood from circulating.  Parts of us are dying and new cells are being made all the time.

2. Organ transplants.  Even when 'we' cease to be, parts of us are still coherent, allowing organ transplants.  There is even a method of blood extraction from corpses that is used occasionally.

3. All of our thoughts while we are alive are contained in a structure of neurons.  This can be seen in a variety of well documented cases from Phineas Gage through to the impacts of severing the corpus colosum and the impacts of traumas such as strokes and alzheimers as well as the structures found that map nerves to a variety of tasks and thoughts.

4. When people start to die, the brain is frequently one of the last organs to be starved of oxygen.

5. The 'tunnel of light' is caused by the visual cortex loosing oxygen and the remaining parts of the brain attempting to deal with that.  The same 'tunnel' can be simulated.  Pilots experience this when they use a centrifuge under high G forces for training or to test new gear.  Both these are documented and can be duplicated with the proper equipment and/or circumstances.

6. People who live after being through this oxygen starvation tell stories based on their brain's attempt to deal with the stress.  They talk about 'flash backs', they talk about 'stepping outside' of themselves and seeing themselves.  The same thing the pilots in the centrifuges report.

7. The more time the brain or any organ is starved, the more damage.

8. People don't act any differently from more damage (that brings them closer to complete death and thus an 'afterlife') then other victims of brain damage.

9. When cell death is complete, there is nothing to store 'them'.

Speculation is usually asserted that if there were an after life, the dead person's essence would simply go there.  Yet, people report coming back from different after lives that match what the test pilots experience. 

Let's speculate even more.  Let's say that there is a qualitative difference between the test pilots and those who say they died.  There probably is some difference, so for this leg of the conversation I'm leaving what that qualitative difference is wide open.

Here's the question; Where would the person's essence go to in the after life, and where would they go to when they 'return'?

I'd add to the above; why do people from different cultures see different after lives?

Isn't it more reasonable that these people are experiencing a normal physical process and not a supernatural one?  If not, why not?
Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons. --Michael Shermer

The history of religion is a long attempt to reconcile old custom with new reason, to find a sound theory for an absurd practice.  --Sir James George Frazer

Offline Hermes

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Re: Hi there [#925]
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2009, 09:03:03 PM »
Since you like the videos, here are some other goodies;

* The WWGHA and GII web sites have other resources beyond the forums;

  Blog: http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/blog
  Book: http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/god-toc.htm
  50 (51, 52, ...) simple proofs: http://godisimaginary.com

* YouTube Video channels;

  http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php?topic=2078

* Atheism blogs;

  http://planetatheism.com

* TV programs;

  http://www.atheist-experience.com -- TV program out of Austin TX with many back episodes

* Audio;

I've got a boatload of podcasts/RSS feeds if you listen to that stuff.  Let me know what you're interested in, and I'll be glad to offer recommendations.
Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons. --Michael Shermer

The history of religion is a long attempt to reconcile old custom with new reason, to find a sound theory for an absurd practice.  --Sir James George Frazer

Offline Tails_155

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Re: Hi there [#925]
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2009, 09:30:34 PM »
I believe we'll be dirt for a while, then, perhaps plants, then perhaps animals, then perhaps animals again, then perhaps dirt in cycle until we are instead star gas again...
Live! Learn! Laugh! Love! Lead!

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Offline gold_digging_ants

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Re: Hi there [#925]
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2009, 10:21:13 PM »
I was just curious about what you believe happens in death?
I believe we are just gonna be dirt, and that's it.  I can't believe
in an afterlife, although I understand the wanting to believe in that.
Your thoughts?

I think this just about sums it up for me.  One of the best quotes I've read here:

Looking forward to a continuation of already-eternal life as myriad wandering atoms doing interesting stuff.
Quote
But the Bible has so many uses! After all, that very thin paper is perfect for origami, for starting fires, for using as a replacement coffee filter...
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