Author Topic: Dead Sea Scrolls and Iron Gall Ink  (Read 3251 times)

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Offline trustno1

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Dead Sea Scrolls and Iron Gall Ink
« on: January 12, 2009, 09:38:36 AM »
It strikes me as evident, based on modern archeology and by looking at the dating of actual extant religious manuscripts (100-200 AD for the very earliest Jewish manuscripts, 200-300 AD for the very earliest Christian manuscripts, and 700-800 AD for the very earliest Islamic manuscripts), that Abrahamism is an after-the-fact patchwork of political rationalizations and outright fraud.

But even I was a little surprised this morning to notice scholars' easy acceptance of the scientific finding a decade ago that the Dead Sea scrolls are written with iron gall ink.  I won't try here to go into the special place given to the scrolls in ostensibly legitimizing the historicity of certain early Christian and Jewish groups.  For the moment I'm just interested in this one question:  How could the Dead Sea scrolls have been written in 100 BC - 100 AD if iron gall ink wasn't even discovered and used until many centuries later?

http://www.knaw.nl/ecpa/ink/ink_history.html
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The earliest use of iron gall ink is hard to establish. The reaction between tannin and iron salt to create a colored product was already known in Antiquity. Gaius Plinius Secundus (23 -79 A.D.) describes an experiment in which he dripped a solution of iron salt on papyrus that had been soaked in a tannin solution. The pale brown papyrus immediately turned black upon contact with the iron salt.

It was not until centuries later that this reaction was deliberately used to produce ink...

http://209.85.173.132/search?q=cache:YhPjLFb_dPMJ:www.scienceinschool.org/2007/issue6/galls/+%22iron+gall+ink%22+%22dead+sea+scrolls%22&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=10&gl=us
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The first certain reference to iron-gall ink is in Martianus Minneus Felix Capella’s book De Nuptiis Philologiae et Mercurii et de septem Artibus liberalibus libri novem (On the Wedding of Philology and Mercury and of the Seven Liberal Arts in nine books; 420 AD), which mentions a mixture of galls and gum. Although other recipes have been preserved, all agree on the basic ingredients: galls, ferrous sulphate (copperas), water and gum arabic...

Antiquities fraud had developed into a highly refined and very remunerative endeavor for a century even before the Dead Sea scrolls popped up in the very midst of the 1947-1948 Zionist ethnic cleansing of the indigenous Palestinians.  Until I see evidence that iron gall ink was actually in use in the Middle East in 100 BC through 100 AD, I have to strongly suspect -- though obviously can't prove -- that the Dead Sea scrolls may be just another part of the propaganda fraud. 
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Offline Cycle4Fun

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Re: Dead Sea Scrolls and Iron Gall Ink
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2009, 11:43:38 AM »
I didn't know that and will look into it more.
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Offline Count Iblis

Re: Dead Sea Scrolls and Iron Gall Ink
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2009, 01:33:30 PM »
Interesting subject. I came up with this link

http://home.att.net/~numericana/answer/chemistry.htm

which claims that iron gall ink wasn't used on the DSS.

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This was not used for actual ink at the time of Pliny, but "gallarum gummeosque commixtio" is already mentioned as an established writing ink around AD 420, in the  encyclopedia of the 7 liberal arts  by Martianus Capella.  However, the latest analyses have disproved dubious reports that this type of ink might have already been used on the famous Dead Sea Scrolls of Qumran (before AD 68).

Unfortunately there is no reference to who did this "latest" analysis.

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Until I see evidence that iron gall ink was actually in use in the Middle East in 100 BC through 100 AD, I have to strongly suspect -- though obviously can't prove -- that the Dead Sea scrolls may be just another part of the propaganda fraud.

What propaganda fraud? The DSS have caused problems for Jews and Christians, at least as far as religion goes.
Religion is an act of sedition against reason.--P.Z. Myers

To find out more about the Evil Atheist Conspiracy visit http://www.atheistthinktank.net/

you know, hell is going to be so jammed full of lying Christians that I fear I will never get in.  --velkyn

Offline trustno1

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Re: Dead Sea Scrolls and Iron Gall Ink
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2009, 09:37:00 PM »
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What propaganda fraud?

I was referring to religion in general.

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The DSS have caused problems for Jews and Christians, at least as far as religion goes.

Jeepers, I'd always understood Jews and Christians alike to enthusiastically view the scrolls as authenticating their mythologies, particularly since skeptical modern secularists up till then could with impunity level the criticism that these were "invented" religions given the very late dates of extant manuscripts.  But I'd be happy to listen and learn more of the opposing view.

http://www.followtherabbi.com/Brix?pageID=2724
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...The second great contribution of the scrolls is their affirmation of the reliability of the Bible. Until the Dead Sea discoveries, the oldest copies of the Hebrew Bible dated to approximately AD 1000. Were there errors? Had mistakes crept in over centuries of copying by hand? Had God's Word stood the test of time? The Dead Sea Scrolls take us back beyond 100 BC, more than 1,000 years before the existing manuscripts. Scholars were amazed to find little difference - most involved spelling changes... 
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Offline Count Iblis

Re: Dead Sea Scrolls and Iron Gall Ink
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2009, 09:25:43 PM »
Jeepers, I'd always understood Jews and Christians alike to enthusiastically view the scrolls as authenticating their mythologies, particularly since skeptical modern secularists up till then could with impunity level the criticism that these were "invented" religions given the very late dates of extant manuscripts.  But I'd be happy to listen and learn more of the opposing view.

It's my understanding that the DSS tend to support the Septuagint readings of the Bible instead of the Masoretic (though sometimes the reverse is true). This is a problem for Jews and Christians who like to brag about how well scribes were copying the Bible. It also indicates that there was a community that revered texts (e.g. 1 Enoch) that were not part of either the Jewish or Christian canon.

I think Christianity is hit harder by the DSS than Jews (mainly because Jews don't have a True Judaism mentality). It's pretty clear when reading the DSS that Christianity either grew out of the Qumran community itself, or something fairly close. I know of no Christian Church which has embraced this obvious truth. It's really hard to argue that Jesus started something new and so radical that the authorities had him put to death, when a community not much different from him was already around for a hundred years.
Religion is an act of sedition against reason.--P.Z. Myers

To find out more about the Evil Atheist Conspiracy visit http://www.atheistthinktank.net/

you know, hell is going to be so jammed full of lying Christians that I fear I will never get in.  --velkyn