Author Topic: Modern Medicine  (Read 552 times)

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Offline username

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Modern Medicine
« on: January 06, 2009, 06:06:50 AM »
Should creationists who deny evolution be allowed to get flu shots or any other kind of medicine which has been modified to counter the adaptations of organisms? Is there any other rights that you can think of that they should be denied?
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Offline Omega

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Re: Modern Medicine
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2009, 10:10:50 AM »
Are you going to ask everyone if he is creationist or does he accept germ theory before vaccination?

Offline Marke

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Re: Modern Medicine
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2009, 11:29:13 AM »
I see your point, don't believe in it don't get the benefit. Unfortunately you picked a poor example. Why because 1) a lot of believers exclude themselves from flu shots voluntarily and 2) we should get everyone we can regardless of religion inoculated as each person inoculated is one less vector for the disease to travel through.

Offline velkyn

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Re: Modern Medicine
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2009, 04:02:43 PM »
Should creationists who deny evolution be allowed to get flu shots or any other kind of medicine which has been modified to counter the adaptations of organisms? Is there any other rights that you can think of that they should be denied?

I agree in principal but like Marke said, you want as many in the "herd" to have it as possible.  I also think that those who attack science while accepting its benefits should also be unable to eat bred animals and plants, have their crimes solved by forensics, use computers, use cars, etc. 

I have asked many Christians why they can accept science when it benefits them but can say it isn't true when it conflicts with their myths.  Great way to kill a thread.
"There is no use in arguing with a man who can multiply anything by the square root of minus 1" - Pirates of Venus, ERB

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Offline Omega

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Re: Modern Medicine
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2009, 07:59:24 PM »
Should creationists who deny evolution be allowed to get flu shots or any other kind of medicine which has been modified to counter the adaptations of organisms? Is there any other rights that you can think of that they should be denied?

I agree in principal but like Marke said, you want as many in the "herd" to have it as possible.  I also think that those who attack science while accepting its benefits should also be unable to eat bred animals and plants, have their crimes solved by forensics, use computers, use cars, etc. 

I have asked many Christians why they can accept science when it benefits them but can say it isn't true when it conflicts with their myths.  Great way to kill a thread.

biggest question here is why Pope who should have no regrets of dying as his teachings tells everyone.
is using armored truck to visit his zealots, ad also he is using modern and expensive medicine which he is trying to destroy so much with his anti science declarations.
i think he shold leave his life in the hands of God instead of relying on latest technology and medicine.
they even started using Internet which is devils creation but yest they use it and still call its devils work.

Offline Tails_155

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Re: Modern Medicine
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2009, 08:59:55 PM »
Should creationists who deny evolution be allowed to get flu shots or any other kind of medicine which has been modified to counter the adaptations of organisms? Is there any other rights that you can think of that they should be denied?

I agree in principal but like Marke said, you want as many in the "herd" to have it as possible.  I also think that those who attack science while accepting its benefits should also be unable to eat bred animals and plants, have their crimes solved by forensics, use computers, use cars, etc. 

I have asked many Christians why they can accept science when it benefits them but can say it isn't true when it conflicts with their myths.  Great way to kill a thread.

biggest question here is why Pope who should have no regrets of dying as his teachings tells everyone.
is using armored truck to visit his zealots, ad also he is using modern and expensive medicine which he is trying to destroy so much with his anti science declarations.
i think he shold leave his life in the hands of God instead of relying on latest technology and medicine.
they even started using Internet which is devils creation but yest they use it and still call its devils work.


to my memory the last two popes both accepted evolution
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Offline PingTheServer

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Re: Modern Medicine
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2009, 09:30:09 PM »
Should creationists who deny evolution be allowed to get flu shots or any other kind of medicine which has been modified to counter the adaptations of organisms? Is there any other rights that you can think of that they should be denied?

Not at all.  They're just simple minded people.  If anything, receiving care granted by the advancement of science should at least eat away at their conscience and let them know there is something wrong with the fundamentalist way of thinking.  They're not animals.

I wouldnt call it a right, but they SHOULD be denied court time to interject their "theories" about the origins of life into the school system...that is until anything they have to say stands up to peer review.

Offline velkyn

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Re: Modern Medicine
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2009, 11:24:25 AM »
Should creationists who deny evolution be allowed to get flu shots or any other kind of medicine which has been modified to counter the adaptations of organisms? Is there any other rights that you can think of that they should be denied?

Not at all.  They're just simple minded people.  If anything, receiving care granted by the advancement of science should at least eat away at their conscience and let them know there is something wrong with the fundamentalist way of thinking.  They're not animals.

I wouldnt call it a right, but they SHOULD be denied court time to interject their "theories" about the origins of life into the school system...that is until anything they have to say stands up to peer review.

it should eat at their conscience but it never seems to.  I am pretty much convinced there are indeed people too ill-educated and too unintelligent to know how wrong they are. 
"There is no use in arguing with a man who can multiply anything by the square root of minus 1" - Pirates of Venus, ERB

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Offline dockster

Re: Modern Medicine
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2009, 02:12:10 PM »
To offer some clarification as to historical Christian perspective relative to medicine, is to understand the following quote:

"A supremely good and intelligent God would not have created a man who right from the beginning was vulnerable to illness and bodily defect, and the fact is that God did not create such a man."   

The religious Christian view is that man was made in God's image and therefore was considered perfect,  without flaws, and therefore is not prone to illness.

Historically, that is the justification for the opposition to the rise of modern medicine and its benefits. All illness was assumed to be the result of as God's will. Illness was a form of His punishment for sins and evil deeds. The Bible teaches "trust in God, prayer, and fasting" as the way to be healed from illness, rather than trusting in human doctors or healers.

From the Christian point of view, human doctors, or healers were obviously contradicting and working in opposition to God's will. In effect they were Satan's assistants.
Add to this the prevailing view,  that most doctors of the Middles ages and the  Renaissance  were Jewish.
To  clarify, in most areas of Europe, for example, Jews were restricted as to their  participation is the community, in some areas not allowed to own land and were limited as to their options to earn a living. Many turned to medicine. Given the strong anti Semitic attitudes of the times, doctors as well as their medicines were shunned by the religious masses.   

That it was the devil's work was confirmed when, "The 1246 council of B├ęziers had pronounced excommunication on Christians resorting to Jewish physicians and urged the ancient prohibition as vehemently as ever, "Rather die in Christ than be 'cured' by a Jewish doctor and Satan".

In 1610, we find the medical faculty of Vienna going on formal record that Jewish doctors are required by their religious law to kill every tenth Christian patient by dealing out the wrong drugs."

Martin Luther, the founder of  Lutheranism a virulent anti Semite, stated "By the Jewish physician's "fiendish arts" many a Christian patient was allegedly poisoned. If the Jews could kill us all, they would gladly do so, aye, and often do it, especially those who profess to be physicians. They know all that is known about medicine in Germany; they can give poison to a man of which he will die in an hour, or in ten or twenty years."   

When Christianity took over Europe, scientific and engineering advancement virtually stopped. The great Roman aqueducts represented one of the greatest engineering feats of the ancient world and provided clean water to cities and industrial sites for centuries. When the Christians took over they no longer supported these great public services and the aqueducts became ruins -- monuments of the past glory of Rome. Christianity banned the Roman bath houses and bathing itself became an act of sin. The ancient Roman sewers no longer worked. For centuries after, Christians lived in filth, ignorance, and disease.

During the Black Death in the 1300s, the masses turned to the Church instead of medicine. The Church explained that the plague came as an act of God, not nature, as a punishment for sins of not obeying Church authority. The Church banned Greek and Roman medicine to fight the plague and considered it heresy. After the plague, the Church banned any formal discipline of medicine.

"Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: And the prayer of faith shall save the sick.... (James 5:14-15)

 A quote form a Christian Scientist . ( An oxymoron if I ever heard of one. )
"My own practice of Christian Science is not an exercise in blind faith, but is based on its effectiveness in my life.
During the pregnancy of my first child, I was diagnosed with a form of diabetes that was completely healed through prayer. The physician could not explain what had happened, but said that it would likely return with future pregnancies, which it did not."

 Numerous instances of healing, in which so-called material disease does not follow its supposedly natural course after Christian Science treatment has been introduced to the case, help to make this more apparent. Malaria, typhoid fever, cancer, pulmonary tuberculosis, for example, have been arrested and healed in this way."

Shellie Evans
Abilene, Texas, USA

How do you argue with that logic. ?
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