Author Topic: Just wondering why..? [#887]  (Read 406 times)

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Offline DL

Just wondering why..? [#887]
« on: January 02, 2009, 07:42:34 PM »
Hi, my name is [name], I'm a 24 year old guy from Melbourne, Australia, just
kinda stumbled across your site, and actually was pretty intrigued by your
perspectives, I think I stopped beleiving in God when I was about 11, and
pretty much my whole family are atheists, but I have had some contact with
several christian people. I am just curious I guess as to why you think
people beleiving in God, even if he is not real is such a bad thing.. I dont
know, maybe its different in America, but the christians I've met have been
some of the most incredible people I've ever met. They really are happy and
go out of their way to help people. Frankly I'd love to be able to beleive
in God if that's the results. No atheist I've ever met has ever had that
much joy or compassion. I mean thats all just in my experience but hey maybe
its true across the board.. And yeah, why set up a site, however insightful
it may be, for the purpose of destroying someones belief system? That just
seems a bit of an odd thing to want to do.. I mean, if its making people
happy.. why not let them be happy? Just seems a bit of a killjoy thing to
want to do. Anyway thanks for your time and I hope you do reply,

Regards
[name]

Offline StPatrick

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Re: Just wondering why..? [#887]
« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2009, 07:44:15 PM »
Quote
I am just curious I guess as to why you think
people beleiving in God

No evidence, really.

Quote
even if he is not real is such a bad thing

Wrong, religion impedes medical science and tries to get its version of creationism taught in schools.  A bad thing indeed.
If we come together and do not fight over religion, class and borders then we hold the key to a peaceful world. There are two possible futures in store; either a March of power and greed or a March of a unified human race.

Offline Nick

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Re: Just wondering why..? [#887]
« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2009, 08:00:11 PM »
You don't find it strange that people build their lives around an imaginary figure and try to set governmental policies to fit that imaginary figure?
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

Tide goes in, tide goes out !!!

Offline Hermes

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Re: Just wondering why..? [#887]
« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2009, 08:47:05 PM »
Hello!  I'd use your name, but before the messages are posted in the forums, all identification marks (email, phone, personal names, ...) are stripped out. 

As a reply, I'll keep it short.  Details are pinned on (copy-paste) at the end...

First off, I'm an agnostic atheist; I don't know for certain that there are no gods, but I believe there are none.  If someone can show me one or more gods are more likely than not, I'll stop being an atheist.  It's that simple.


In the meantime ...

     I don't care what other people choose to believe.  At all.
     What I do care about is what they do with those beliefs.


Here are two reasons why I'm interested in this subject;

1. Societies that are less religious tend to thrive more and have fewer problems.  Why wouldn't everyone want a better place to live?

2. Religious people ignore the damage they do or that others do in the name of their religion.


That's it.  It's that simple. 

If you want details, read on.  Otherwise, you can stop here.

----------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------


Comment #1 details;

High rates of atheism: low crime, higher pay, better health and education
Study; More Faithful Nations Are Less Moral
http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php?topic=2076.0

Comment #2 details: An essay I provide to Christians;

Quote
I have noticed, as you may have as well, that there are Christians that do things in the name of Christianity that are negative.  Christians that promote bigotry and ignorance.  Christians that advocate actions that lead to harm and even death.  Christians that advocate not caring about this world and who want it to be destroyed in a polluted and fiery apocalypse.

If there were enough Christians that effectively dealt with those problems, I would not have any concerns.  Believe as you want.  As far as I would be concerned, the real world problems would be solved.

Unfortunately, that is not the world we are in.  Most Christians aren't doing nearly enough.   Many unfortunately are actively promoting these negative goals -- from paying money passively to going out and doing these negative actions themselves.  Some of the strongest advocates for those negative actions are the leaders and congregants of the larger Christian churches and organizations; this is not a problem with a few fringe groups or eccentric cult leaders.

Too many Christians not only do not take responsibility, they are leading the charge for these negative actions.  They justify bigotry and ignorance, they justify actions that result in the deaths of others that could be easily avoided.

As a responsible person, someone who cares about the world and the future of humanity, I have to act.  Even if it is not my fault that these Christians are doing harm, it is my responsibility to do something positive.  You can consider it a moral obligation.  If that means that I have to hold up a mirror so that my fellow humans look at what they believe, then I'll take that modest step.  Maybe that will be enough to drain the air out of some of those bad ideas?

My question to you is not what you believe, but what are you doing about the acts your fellow Christians perform in the name of Christianity that spread hate, bigotry, ignorance, pain, and death?

Side note: I don't mention details on what I think demonstrates or advocates hate, bigotry, ignorance, and/or death.  Few Christians challenge it and they are usually able to fill the list in themselves even if they end up with different items than I would.

Additional;

If you want to see the diversity of beliefs and claims to knowledge on the forums, take a look at this thread;

What is your religious position?
http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php?topic=833.0

I think your assessment of atheists is based on the fact that most atheists aren't public about atheism ... and why should they be?  It's a non issue.  It's like being vocal about not believing the moon is made of green cheese.  Yet, that's not the case with many Christians.  They want special considerations for their beliefs and to have other non-Christians pay for them.  The question I have is why is that OK for them, but not agreeing to go along is somehow wrong?

Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons. --Michael Shermer

The history of religion is a long attempt to reconcile old custom with new reason, to find a sound theory for an absurd practice.  --Sir James George Frazer

Offline Frank

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Re: Just wondering why..? [#887]
« Reply #4 on: January 02, 2009, 08:51:15 PM »
Hi, my name is [name], I'm a 24 year old guy from Melbourne, Australia, just
kinda stumbled across your site, and actually was pretty intrigued by your
perspectives, I think I stopped beleiving in God when I was about 11, and
pretty much my whole family are atheists, but I have had some contact with
several christian people. I am just curious I guess as to why you think
people beleiving in God, even if he is not real is such a bad thing.. I dont
know, maybe its different in America, but the christians I've met have been
some of the most incredible people I've ever met. They really are happy and
go out of their way to help people. Frankly I'd love to be able to beleive
in God if that's the results. No atheist I've ever met has ever had that
much joy or compassion. I mean thats all just in my experience but hey maybe
its true across the board.. And yeah, why set up a site, however insightful
it may be, for the purpose of destroying someones belief system? That just
seems a bit of an odd thing to want to do.. I mean, if its making people
happy.. why not let them be happy? Just seems a bit of a killjoy thing to
want to do. Anyway thanks for your time and I hope you do reply,

Regards
[name]

Lies, lies, lies. Someone's lying for Jesus.
"Atheism is not a mission to convert the world. It only seems that way because when other religions fall away, atheism is what is left behind".

Offline Hermes

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Re: Just wondering why..? [#887]
« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2009, 08:55:22 PM »
Lies, lies, lies. Someone's lying for Jesus.

Probably.  I gave them the benefit of the doubt this time.  Who knows?

Along those lines;

Is theism inherently dishonest?
http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php?topic=1080
Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons. --Michael Shermer

The history of religion is a long attempt to reconcile old custom with new reason, to find a sound theory for an absurd practice.  --Sir James George Frazer

Offline gold_digging_ants

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Re: Just wondering why..? [#887]
« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2009, 12:35:40 AM »
Hello atheist from Melbourne.  I'm an atheist from Sydney- have only recently become one.  Giving you the benefit of the doubt, I can say that we must live in virtually different countries (maybe Sydney isn't superior to Melbourne after all? Nah...  ;) ).  While the Christians I know are happy within themselves and their own closed in communities (for the most part- they can also be very judgmental), they demand that others behave the way that they do, and don't tolerate any dissent.  I've lost friends merely by saying that I don't personally find their religion convincing anymore.  Also, when I was a believer, the adults in my life (not my family, but other authority figures such as teachers) told me a lot of destructive things stemming from the Bible (the lesser role of women, that I was worthless because of sin- a great thing to tell a then suicidal teenager).  They close themselves off to new ideas and different people.

Apart from the personal harm this has caused me, and the great damage this sort of thinking does when it's applied to others through political and other processes, it hardly makes for "incredible" people.  So many people I know are indeed wonderful- except for the small minded bigotry with which they believe they must lead their lives.
Quote
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