Author Topic: AIDS deniers  (Read 721 times)

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Offline rickymooston

AIDS deniers
« on: December 22, 2008, 09:26:54 PM »
Includes a guy with   nobel prize although ...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIDS_denialism
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Death of HIV-positive denialists
In 2007, aidstruth.org, a website run by HIV researchers to counter denialist claims,[43] published a partial list of AIDS denialists who had died of AIDS-related causes. For example, the magazine Continuum, which consistently denied the existence of HIV/AIDS, shut down when its editors all died of AIDS-related causes. In every case, the AIDS denialist community attributed the deaths to unknown causes, secret drug use, or stress rather than HIV/AIDS.[44][42] Similarly, several HIV-positive former dissidents have reported being ostracized by the AIDS-denialist community after they developed AIDS and decided to pursue effective antiretroviral treatment.[45]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Duesberg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kary_Mullis

"i had learn to focus i what i could do rather what i couldn't do", Rick Hansen when asked about getting a disabling spinal cord injury at 15. He continues to raise money for spinal cord research and inspire peoople to "make a difference". He doesnt preach any religion.

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Re: AIDS deniers
« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2009, 04:11:30 AM »
Haha AIDS denial was a movement by African government officials to lower national scare in poverty stricken countries where education is low and some people actually buy it, I don't get why those who are educated or live in a well developed country believe it too. What I love is how powerful AIDS is at putting down creationism, we have seen a great deal of evolutionary changes over a few generations of AIDS which allow the virus to occupy it's host for a substantially longer time then the original strand.
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Offline rickymooston

Re: AIDS deniers
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2009, 06:40:52 AM »
Haha AIDS denial was a movement by African government officials to lower national scare in poverty stricken countries where education is low and some people actually buy it, I don't get why those who are educated or live in a well developed country believe it too. What I love is how powerful AIDS is at putting down creationism, we have seen a great deal of evolutionary changes over a few generations of AIDS which allow the virus to occupy it's host for a substantially longer time then the original strand.

Somebody claimed that resistance to AIDS makes you more vulnerable to the plaque and vice versus.
"i had learn to focus i what i could do rather what i couldn't do", Rick Hansen when asked about getting a disabling spinal cord injury at 15. He continues to raise money for spinal cord research and inspire peoople to "make a difference". He doesnt preach any religion.

Offline oogabooga

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Re: AIDS deniers
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2009, 08:35:46 AM »
I do hope you didn't really mean plaque but plague. And I've found no evidence of that. But it would be possible - people with sickle-cell anaemia are resistant to malaria, for instance. Let's just say that such trade-offs aren't unheard of.

As far as AIDS deniers go... while they're entitled to their opinion, doesn't mean said opinion is right. People like that are harmful at best, just like those who claim that vaccines cause autism. The problem here is probably the fact that AIDS doesn't kill you as such. People who develop AIDS die of other diseases - a simple cold can develop into deadly pneumonia, for instance. That's what the acronym stand for - acquired immune deficiency syndrome. HIV screws with your immune system to the point where it doesn't work any more, so you can't fight off even the simplest infections.

There is plenty of evidence showing that HIV infection causes AIDS and no evidence to the contrary. It's that simple. Claiming otherwise is claiming something that's contrary to reality.

AIDS deniers are especially dangerous in some third world countries, where antivirals aren't readily available, and they're lying to change the general opinion, so the country wouldn't have to spend money on importing medicine and/or are trying to promote cheaper, domestic (tribal) medicine. That kind of attitude is dangerous and is only causing HIV infection to spread (the same goes for claims that condoms don't prevent infection or that condoms actually cause AIDS, which were made on several occasions by different religious figures).

But AIDS deniers aren't the only nutcases out there - you also have germ theory deniers. There's an interesting article on that here.
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Offline rickymooston

Re: AIDS deniers
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2009, 08:46:14 AM »
I do hope you didn't really mean plaque but plague.

You accuse the moose of misspelling stuff? Next thing you know, you will be accusing politicians of lying.

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And I've found no evidence of that. But it would be possible - people with sickle-cell anaemia are resistant to malaria, for instance. Let's just say that such trade-offs aren't unheard of.

I heard this too.  Survival of the Sickest is all about such trade offs.

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As far as AIDS deniers go... while they're entitled to their opinion, doesn't mean said opinion is right. People like that are harmful at best, just like those who claim that vaccines cause autism.

The odd ones are the ones with Nobel prizes!!! There is at least one.

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The problem here is probably the fact that AIDS doesn't kill you as such. People who develop AIDS die of other diseases - a simple cold can develop into deadly pneumonia, for instance. That's what the acronym stand for - acquired immune deficiency syndrome. HIV screws with your immune system to the point where it doesn't work any more, so you can't fight off even the simplest infections.

Sounds logical.

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There is plenty of evidence showing that HIV infection causes AIDS and no evidence to the contrary. It's that simple. Claiming otherwise is claiming something that's contrary to reality.

I assume this is true.

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But AIDS deniers aren't the only nutcases out there - you also have germ theory deniers. There's an interesting article on that here.

Wow.

If you click on my original link, two of them were prominent scientists though. One with a Nobel prize.
"i had learn to focus i what i could do rather what i couldn't do", Rick Hansen when asked about getting a disabling spinal cord injury at 15. He continues to raise money for spinal cord research and inspire peoople to "make a difference". He doesnt preach any religion.

Offline oogabooga

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Re: AIDS deniers
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2009, 11:37:59 AM »
A Nobel prize doesn't automatically ensure that the person who had received it is in touch with reality on all aspects of life. When viruses are concerned, there's a lot of ground still to be covered and many aspects of various infections may even be debatable. But the simple fact is that the vast majority of people who become infected with HIV develop AIDS. There is a small number of people who can't get infected and an equally small number of people who are HIV positive but never develop AIDS (but that's debatable - there is also a possibility that the whole course takes longer). There are people who are "naturally" immune to all sorts of infections. That doesn't mean that the germs that cause those infections don't really cause them, does it? It just means they're immune.
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Re: AIDS deniers
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2009, 12:48:26 PM »
It seems that you guys are getting side tracked from the political campaign though, it's true colds can develop into pneumonia, and having HIV isn't what usually kills it's host. They are trying to deny that AIDS exists at all, that there are other explanations for the sickness that infests Africa, you guys are just trying to come up with justification of where the government are coming, you got to remember if we were in a developing country this logic doesn't apply, to them either AIDS exists and kills you in some form or another or it doesn't exist at all.
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Offline rickymooston

Re: AIDS deniers
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2009, 01:14:28 PM »
It seems that you guys are getting side tracked from the political campaign though, it's true colds can develop into pneumonia, and having HIV isn't what usually kills it's host. They are trying to deny that AIDS exists at all, that there are other explanations for the sickness that infests Africa, you guys are just trying to come up with justification of where the government are coming, you got to remember if we were in a developing country this logic doesn't apply, to them either AIDS exists and kills you in some form or another or it doesn't exist at all.

You lost me.

What is the motivation for the denial?

A Nobel prize doesn't automatically ensure that the person who had received it is in touch with reality on all aspects of life.

Oddly he had it in chemistry. The other guy didn't look like a moron either.

However, I agree. Peer review is around for a reason.



"i had learn to focus i what i could do rather what i couldn't do", Rick Hansen when asked about getting a disabling spinal cord injury at 15. He continues to raise money for spinal cord research and inspire peoople to "make a difference". He doesnt preach any religion.

Offline oogabooga

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Re: AIDS deniers
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2009, 01:46:32 PM »
You lost me.

What is the motivation for the denial?
I wish I knew. But what's the motivation for believing other silly shit?

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A Nobel prize doesn't automatically ensure that the person who had received it is in touch with reality on all aspects of life.

Oddly he had it in chemistry. The other guy didn't look like a moron either.

However, I agree. Peer review is around for a reason.
Well, as brilliant as some people are, they get stuff wrong. So you're absolutely right - that's why peer review exists. And a degree, however high, in chemistry does not guarantee any expertise in virology. And vice-versa.
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