Author Topic: Women who go retro  (Read 375 times)

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Offline Chronos

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Women who go retro
« on: October 26, 2018, 08:34:59 AM »
 ... when going retro is not cool:

Sinead O'Connor Reveals She's Converted to Islam: 'I Am Proud to Have Become a Muslim'

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“This is to announce that I am proud to have become a Muslim,” O’Connor wrote on Oct. 19, explaining that her new faith “is the natural conclusion of any intelligent theologian’s journey.”


John 14:2 :: In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

Offline velkyn

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Re: Women who go retro
« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2018, 09:50:01 AM »
what an idiot.   she had good music...once. 



pity she isn't the intelligent theologian she claims to be.
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Offline Nick

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Re: Women who go retro
« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2018, 09:52:42 AM »
Makes no sense at all.  She must have a screw loose.
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

Religions are the dingle berries on the butt hairs of civilization.

Offline Mr. Blackwell

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Re: Women who go retro
« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2018, 12:13:32 PM »
« Last Edit: October 26, 2018, 12:17:08 PM by Mr. Blackwell »
I am not sure how to describe the intricacies of this Hell, so I chose to begin with the most common or prominent theme of Hell, which is uncertainty.

Offline stuffin

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Re: Women who go retro
« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2018, 12:16:20 PM »
Good, now she needs to cover herself from head to toe (especially her face) and only speak when a man gives her permission. That should take a lot of nonsense out of the world.
Don't stop smiling at the world and keep your head full of hope.

Offline stuffin

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Re: Women who go retro
« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2018, 12:17:37 PM »
Don't stop smiling at the world and keep your head full of hope.

Offline Mr. Blackwell

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Re: Women who go retro
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2018, 12:23:15 PM »
I can't believe all the right wing xenophobic, Islamophobic hatred being spewed here.

Seriously.

What do you all think of Linda Sarsour? I mean, it's not like Shuhada was ever conservative in the past.

I am not sure how to describe the intricacies of this Hell, so I chose to begin with the most common or prominent theme of Hell, which is uncertainty.

Online LoriPinkAngel

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Re: Women who go retro
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2018, 01:40:33 PM »
I read the Wikipedia entry about Sarsour,  She seems pretty liberal.  I don't know how that jibes with the Muslim rules about how women are supposed to conduct themselves.
It doesn't make sense to let go of something you've had for so long.  But it also doesn't make sense to hold on when there's actually nothing there.

Online LoriPinkAngel

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Re: Women who go retro
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2018, 01:44:07 PM »
I don't hate Islam.  I just think it is a made up religion like all religions.  I am surprised that Sinead joined a religion that basically treats women as second class.  At least from what I have seen.
It doesn't make sense to let go of something you've had for so long.  But it also doesn't make sense to hold on when there's actually nothing there.

Offline Mr. Blackwell

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Re: Women who go retro
« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2018, 01:58:38 PM »
As is with any "grouping" there are subtleties, differences of interpretation among the various adherents within the group. Just like atheists are not a monolithic culture all of a like mind, neither are all Muslims or Christians or conservatives or liberals for that matter.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taqwacore

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMZ8DO9F4Mo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNZnZJIRL40

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSKRaehQheU

Edit to add.

In the last video link of the full documentary....

At minute 16:00 through minute 16:38 that man speaks to my sensibilities.



« Last Edit: October 26, 2018, 02:19:31 PM by Mr. Blackwell »
I am not sure how to describe the intricacies of this Hell, so I chose to begin with the most common or prominent theme of Hell, which is uncertainty.

Offline stuffin

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Re: Women who go retro
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2018, 02:49:36 PM »
I just thought the strange women locked in that blank room singing and humming strange noises was very weird and on the creepy side. But everything else about it was perfectly normal.
Don't stop smiling at the world and keep your head full of hope.

Offline albeto

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Re: Women who go retro
« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2018, 05:51:07 PM »
I can't believe all the right wing xenophobic, Islamophobic hatred being spewed here.

I don't see hate, but rather mockery and ridicule. Religion deserves mockery and ridicule. They are ridiculous beliefs. They would be laughable if they weren't such a threat to humanity.

What do you all think of Linda Sarsour?

I've known fiercely feminist Muslim women myself, so this isn't surprising to me. That a Muslim can be a feminist and public organizer for social change is no more shocking than a Roman Catholic winning the Nobel Prize. However, the religions they subscribe to and support are still ancient and vengeance-oriented superstitions that are detrimental to individuals and society in general.

To me, converting to Islam today is as morally tone-deaf as converting to Catholicism is. Terrorists, rapists priests, it's the same - ignore them and focus on the good feelings instead. It's like taking Turkish Delight from the White Witch and expecting people to be happy for you. I feel the same about Leah Remini recently embracing the Catholic faith.

I mean, it's not like Shuhada was ever conservative in the past.

Shauhada?

Before this O'Connor was an ordained Catholic priest in a church that is not in communion with the Vatican. She's got a history of strong religious belief. She just turned in one religious delusion for another. At the end of the day, I see religion as nothing more than a giant Ponzi Scheme, and one more well-known person got duped into paying into it. Two if we're counting Leah Remini.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2018, 06:19:21 PM by albeto »

Offline Mr. Blackwell

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Re: Women who go retro
« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2018, 06:24:24 PM »
Well said but here is one of the things I tend to get hung up on when it comes to politics and religion. I don't see any atheists here deriding Nancy Pelosi for her devout Catholicism. I can understand if many people have never heard of Linda Sarsour but to give Nancy a pass for being religious to the point of telling a convention of Catholic priests what to preach about immigration is just a little too much for me to take seriously any complaints from this community about other religious people who happen to lean to the right.

It's like, religion is only truly bad if it is practiced and preached by a conservative.

I am not sure how to describe the intricacies of this Hell, so I chose to begin with the most common or prominent theme of Hell, which is uncertainty.

Offline albeto

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Re: Women who go retro
« Reply #13 on: October 26, 2018, 07:50:04 PM »
It's like, religion is only truly bad if it is practiced and preached by a conservative.

Personally, I think religious rhetoric gets pushback when it's used in a way to preserve a system that has been exposed as unjust in some way. When it's not (ie, Pelosi nagging priests over whom she has no authority), then it doesn't get the pushback. When it is (ie, Trump administration's latest attack on LGBTQ rights), it does. As it should.

Offline velkyn

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Re: Women who go retro
« Reply #14 on: October 28, 2018, 02:08:13 PM »
Well said but here is one of the things I tend to get hung up on when it comes to politics and religion. I don't see any atheists here deriding Nancy Pelosi for her devout Catholicism. I can understand if many people have never heard of Linda Sarsour but to give Nancy a pass for being religious to the point of telling a convention of Catholic priests what to preach about immigration is just a little too much for me to take seriously any complaints from this community about other religious people who happen to lean to the right.

It's like, religion is only truly bad if it is practiced and preached by a conservative.

what the heck is your problem, Mr. B?   the only reason that you don't see anyone mentioning Nancy Pelosi and her religion is that it hasn't made a difference in how she acts or what she wants people to do, yet or maybe ever.    You just seem like a butt-hurt conservative who has to blame Pelosi for everything.  And why would I care about what a catholic tells other catholics, them being priests or not?  Do you think she over stepped her place? 
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Offline albeto

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Re: Women who go retro
« Reply #15 on: October 31, 2018, 04:14:35 PM »
Mr. Blackwell, you haven't come back to this thread but I wondered if you would mind taking just a moment to explain what problem you see with Senator Pelosi speaking to Catholic priests. I couldn't find any reference to that after a very, very quick look so I clearly have missed everything. What did she say that you find offensive? What line did she cross in your opinion? And if you don't find her speech offensive, why did you provide it as an example?

Offline stuffin

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Re: Women who go retro
« Reply #16 on: November 01, 2018, 09:06:22 AM »
Mr. Blackwell, you haven't come back to this thread but I wondered if you would mind taking just a moment to explain what problem you see with Senator Pelosi speaking to Catholic priests. I couldn't find any reference to that after a very, very quick look so I clearly have missed everything. What did she say that you find offensive? What line did she cross in your opinion? And if you don't find her speech offensive, why did you provide it as an example?

After following this thread that was what I was wondering, what exactly is Pelosi doing with these Priests that is affecting her political decisions? Are they constantly in her office blessing her and telling her she has been anointed by God to carry out his will and bring forth the apocalypse?

PS, the republicans are trying to attack Pelosi because she is the one Democrat who can get shit done for them. Kind of like cut off the head and kill the snake. This doesn't seem to be having as powerful effect on the elections as they had hoped, we'll know in a week.
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Offline albeto

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Re: Women who go retro
« Reply #17 on: November 02, 2018, 11:29:41 AM »
After following this thread that was what I was wondering, what exactly is Pelosi doing with these Priests that is affecting her political decisions?

It really doesn't make sense, does it? Not only does it not work on the surface for the reasons you're giving, but the analogy is flawed. A politician giving religious authorities marching orders is not the same as religious authorities giving politicians marching orders, or perhaps more accurately, politicians adopting religious marching orders.

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Are they constantly in her office blessing her and telling her she has been anointed by God to carry out his will and bring forth the apocalypse?

Right? Who cares who or what inspires religious beliefs and behaviors, unless, and here's the rub that Mr. Blackwell doesn't seem to quite see, unless those religious beliefs and behaviors intervene in legislation in a nation whose laws are predicated on the idea of rejecting the appeal to authority by virtue of being gods or kings.

Mr. Blackwell says this is too much for him to take seriously any complaints from this community about other religious people who happen to lean to the right, but I wonder if he's really considering the merits of the complaints, or is just uneasy to hear them again.

Offline Jag

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Re: Women who go retro
« Reply #18 on: November 02, 2018, 05:28:41 PM »
I can't believe all the right wing xenophobic, Islamophobic hatred being spewed here.
....where?

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Seriously.
Yes, seriously. Where?

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What do you all think of Linda Sarsour? I mean, it's not like Shuhada was ever conservative in the past.
WTF is Linda Sarsour?

I know who Sinead O'Connor is - back in the day I thought she had an interesting voice, but her public persona was somewhat odd and I found her a bit ... ineffective in conveying whatever her message might have been at times. Be very clear, that's 'what I think' about her, I'm not saying anything whatsoever that should be interpreted as a claim of any sort.

Well said but here is one of the things I tend to get hung up on when it comes to politics and religion. I don't see any atheists here deriding Nancy Pelosi for her devout Catholicism.
I'm completely unaware of any instance in which her religious beliefs entangled themselves with her political positions. I have no recollection of her ever taking the stage to talk about her faith as a rationale for any vote she cast. She seems to do a fine job of keeping her religious ideas to herself when it comes to her job, which is exactly how I think ALL politicians should behave. If this country weren't so biased against atheists, there might be more of us in office, and who knows what it could mean to have people uninfluenced by religion making decisions on behalf of all the citizens of this nation? I strongly suspect we'd have more policy decisions based on evidence than emotions. I'm not saying that atheism alone is enough to make one a critical thinker, but it certainly anecdotally appears that the odds go up.

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I can understand if many people have never heard of Linda Sarsour but to give Nancy a pass for being religious to the point of telling a convention of Catholic priests what to preach about immigration is just a little too much for me to take seriously any complaints from this community about other religious people who happen to lean to the right.
I wish I thought you were kidding. Let's compare:
If they don't yield - kill all males. In case you can't be bothered to click the link, it's about a document written by Washington State Representative Matt Shea(R) titled "Biblical Basis for War". 

Now what exactly is it that Nancy Pelosi does that you find so upsetting that you dismiss "any complaints from this community about other religious people who happen to lean to the right"? This is a serious question - you aren't even comparing apples and oranges, you're comparing bananas and unicycles.

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It's like, religion is only truly bad if it is practiced and preached by a conservative.
:o

The only way you could actually believe that is with such a huge bias in place that you misunderstand nearly everything other members say. Again, just my opinion, but a critical analysis of what has been written in the many, many political posts that you have participated in certainly back that up.

It appears necessary to clarify what can be accurately said of this group as a collective (and in that I'm only referring to the members who are atheist), given what you wrote.

As a group, most of us object to religious expression that is oppressive to others.

That's it.

If you look back at conversations with Old Church Guy in particular, you will see that there is a range of opinions and attitudes toward his continued belief, but overall, he is considered a welcome presence. He is treated with more respect than most of us give each other.

Some of us, myself included, see most religion as being more harmful than not, but I also understand a fair bit about human behavior and motivations. For some people, losing their faith wold be a crisis, not a relief. Some humans NEED the kind of guidance that the strict foundation of religion can provide. That said, I see many way in which that can become oppressive in it's own right, because I happen to have very strong feelings about autonomy and the right to self-discovery. Religion CAN interfere with that, which is not to say that it always does.

I have an aunt who is pretty religious. She's also incredibly progressive, and volunteers both time and money to various organizations that provide meaningful help to people who tend to get lost in the shuffle. She's a practicing Catholic who is married to a practicing Muslim - to all appearances, they are as giddy in love as when they met some 30+ years ago. She's also something of a prayer warrior - this doesn't bother me in the slightest because she ACTS as least as much as she prays. She embodies the kind of theist I wish I knew more of, and I love that she is vocal about it. She is among the most kindhearted people I've ever met, and I'm delighted to claim her as family. Of course she has flaws, but in regard to her theism, I see no harm in her whatsoever. She is the kind of theist we almost never talk about, because they rarely show up here, or in the news.

We talk about what is being talked about. That's kind of the point of this forum.

She has next to nothing in common with people like Matt Shea. Conservative religions tend to go hand in hand with conservative political positions, and we can't be held accountable for that. This is undeniable, but if you want me to post support for this, I would encourage you to look first for yourself, because it's embarrassingly easy to find factual data to back that up. It's widely known and often in the news in one form or another. You can rail all you want about your perception that 'we' have it in for Republicans in particular, but to do so, you have to choose to see things that way. They ARE very, very frequently connected, and to deny that, or to refuse to include that fact in your own analyses of the position of others is to deny reality.

You can be better than that. Your making personal something that isn't.
"Tell people that there's an invisible man in the sky that created the entire universe and the majority believe you. Tell them the paint is wet, and they have to touch it to be sure." ~George Carlin

Offline Fiji

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Re: Women who go retro
« Reply #19 on: November 07, 2018, 05:35:11 PM »
Makes no sense at all.  She must have a screw loose.

Well, I've come across some unhinged Twitter feeds ... but Sinead?
Sorry, I mean Shuhada ... she doesn't have a screw loose, she's the biggest screw factory in China, caught in a millennium storm.
Exhibit a) https://twitter.com/MagdaDavitt77

Her November 6th Tweet should probably get an award for outstanding cluelessness or something

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I'm terribly sorry. What I'm about to say is something so racist I never thought my soul could ever feel it. But truly I never wanna spend time with white people again (if that's what non-muslims are called).  Not for one moment, for any reason. They are disgusting.

Racism, equating Islam to a race, making a distinction between whites and middle eastern people (aren't they the same on US census forms) and apparently she's unaware of this place called Bosnia ... or Russia for that matter
oh, and the quran specifically instructs Muslims to seek out unbelievers, to go among them, to live among them ... did she even READ the damn thing?
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Offline albeto

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Re: Women who go retro
« Reply #20 on: November 07, 2018, 06:50:10 PM »
Another reason religion is detrimental to humanity: There's every indication she is suffering from mental illness (referencing the wiki page on her, not these tweets), but rather than recognize this behavior as a symptom of unhealthy thinking, she's encouraged by a faith-based community to delve right into the magical conspiracy theory and feel empowered through prayer.

Offline Fiji

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Re: Women who go retro
« Reply #21 on: November 08, 2018, 01:27:03 AM »
Back in the eighties, in those troglodytic times before the Internet, news would filter through about popstars. It wasn't a Twitter feed packed full of lunacy, but it was something.
And you'd get these crazy stories of wild parties, sex, drug, thrashing hotel rooms, crazy stunts ... But for the most part, that pretty much boiled down to young people with more money than sense acting up.
And then there was O'Connor ... When she appeared in the news (or on the grapevine) ... It was usually some shit that really made you stop, scratch your head and go, "What?"
She's been battling the demons in her head for decades.
Battling and losing.
She has accused her parents of physical and mental abuse. An accusation, backed up in the case of the mother by her brother.
She has always sought out religion as a means of coping, never, as far as I know a mental health professional. No surprise then that four decades later, those demons are still there, stronger than ever.
Of course, what sort of mental health care even existed in Ireland in the eighties. Wasn't pretty much all of it tied to some religious order?
Good to see then that Ireland is ever so slowly beginning to inch away from religion.
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Offline screwtape

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Re: Women who go retro
« Reply #22 on: November 22, 2018, 08:05:08 AM »
Well said but here is one of the things I tend to get hung up on when it comes to politics and religion. I don't see any atheists here deriding Nancy Pelosi for her devout Catholicism.

Nancy pelosi’s devout Catholicism sucks.  It makes her less smart.

Happy?

The difference between religious liberals and religious conservatives is the liberals are liberal.  That is, the are tolerant of others’ beliefs, they do not try to legislate their own religious beliefs (that is, they respect the constitution) and they generally keep their stupid religious beliefs to themselves. 

Religious conservatives, on the other hand, are mainly intolerant of others’ beliefs, try to make their religious beliefs law (that is, they despise the constitution) and they never shut the fuck up about their own stupid religious beliefs.  There is a not-insignificant portion of the population who watch the Handmaid’s Tale and think their society is a fantastic idea.  None of those people are liberals or democrats.

You may find a few exceptions to these guidelines, but that does not make what I write here any less untrue in the general.  It’s just the conservative mindset kind of defines a particular kind of asshole.

Also, wouldja drop the Bothsiderism baloney already?  For the love of Pete...

What's true is already so. Owning up to it does not make it worse.