Author Topic: If jesus appeared to you.  (Read 1705 times)

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Offline Quad

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Re: If jesus appeared to you.
« Reply #58 on: November 08, 2018, 05:40:38 PM »
There's a difference between magic tricks and miracles

Sure. The former is claimed to be a violation of the laws of physics by the person who makes them, while the latter is claimed to be a violation of the laws of physics by the people who believe in them. Neither, however, are what they seem.
Do you believe in the big bang? Then you believe something came out of nothing, it violates the laws of physics.

You do not understand the Big Bang, or else you would not be making such a statement. I doubt you even understand what a theory is.
I understand enough to know its a real stretch by people who really want to believe there's no intelligence behind the creation of the universe. Its ludicrous, and calling it science is an insult to science

You really don't understand enough. Maybe you don't understand anything at all. You somehow tied the Big Bang to the origin of matter, when the two are not related. That's like tying Evolution to Abiogenesis.
I don't claim to have all the answers or to be an expert in every field of science. But I can point you to someone who does know everything, you just have to be open to hearing his word. You will find you have a lot to learn, just like every other human (including me)

Online One Above All

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Re: If jesus appeared to you.
« Reply #59 on: November 08, 2018, 05:49:19 PM »
I don't claim to have all the answers or to be an expert in every field of science. But I can point you to someone who does know everything, you just have to be open to hearing his word. You will find you have a lot to learn, just like every other human (including me)

You claimed to understand the Big Bang. This claim is demonstrably untrue, because what you addressed doesn't even concern the theory of the Big Bang. Maybe admit your error before talking down to me. You know, show some actual humility.
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Offline Quad

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Re: If jesus appeared to you.
« Reply #60 on: November 08, 2018, 05:57:46 PM »
I don't claim to have all the answers or to be an expert in every field of science. But I can point you to someone who does know everything, you just have to be open to hearing his word. You will find you have a lot to learn, just like every other human (including me)

You claimed to understand the Big Bang. This claim is demonstrably untrue, because what you addressed doesn't even concern the theory of the Big Bang. Maybe admit your error before talking down to me. You know, show some actual humility.
If you read what I said, I said you have a lot to learn just like me. I'm showing humility right there, I'm not sure why you thought I was bragging about anything

Online One Above All

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Re: If jesus appeared to you.
« Reply #61 on: November 08, 2018, 06:12:37 PM »
I don't claim to have all the answers or to be an expert in every field of science. But I can point you to someone who does know everything, you just have to be open to hearing his word. You will find you have a lot to learn, just like every other human (including me)

You claimed to understand the Big Bang. This claim is demonstrably untrue, because what you addressed doesn't even concern the theory of the Big Bang. Maybe admit your error before talking down to me. You know, show some actual humility.
If you read what I said, I said you have a lot to learn just like me. I'm showing humility right there, I'm not sure why you thought I was bragging about anything

I didn't read myself making factual errors, nor did I read you admitting you did make factual errors. I also didn't read myself making claims about subjects I know nothing about, whereas you did.
You're not showing humility; you're just trying to make it seem like you making a false claim is equivalent to me not knowing everything.
My names are many, yet I am One.
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Religions need books because they don't have gods.

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Offline Quad

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Re: If jesus appeared to you.
« Reply #62 on: November 08, 2018, 06:24:13 PM »
I don't claim to have all the answers or to be an expert in every field of science. But I can point you to someone who does know everything, you just have to be open to hearing his word. You will find you have a lot to learn, just like every other human (including me)

You claimed to understand the Big Bang. This claim is demonstrably untrue, because what you addressed doesn't even concern the theory of the Big Bang. Maybe admit your error before talking down to me. You know, show some actual humility.
If you read what I said, I said you have a lot to learn just like me. I'm showing humility right there, I'm not sure why you thought I was bragging about anything

I didn't read myself making factual errors, nor did I read you admitting you did make factual errors. I also didn't read myself making claims about subjects I know nothing about, whereas you did.
You're not showing humility; you're just trying to make it seem like you making a false claim is equivalent to me not knowing everything.
I know enough about the big bang to know one important thing, its not true! I don't need to know all the details, I doubt theres anyone in the world who knows or agrees on what all the details of that nonsense theory are

Offline Nick

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Re: If jesus appeared to you.
« Reply #63 on: November 08, 2018, 06:27:19 PM »
So "stranger danger"?
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

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Offline Nick

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Re: If jesus appeared to you.
« Reply #64 on: November 08, 2018, 06:30:06 PM »
With science, a lot of us can say we don't know but keep searching.  If a theory changes then we take steps forward.  Religious people close their minds and go with "God did it".  You know the Big Bang can't be because nothing can come from nothing.  So here is the old question … where did your God come from?
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

Religions are the dingle berries on the butt hairs of civilization.

Offline Nick

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Re: If jesus appeared to you.
« Reply #65 on: November 08, 2018, 06:31:58 PM »
Also, a question I like to asks theists is..."why is it so important to you that the God thing is real?"
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

Religions are the dingle berries on the butt hairs of civilization.

Offline Quad

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Re: If jesus appeared to you.
« Reply #66 on: November 08, 2018, 06:36:07 PM »
With science, a lot of us can say we don't know but keep searching.  If a theory changes then we take steps forward.  Religious people close their minds and go with "God did it".  You know the Big Bang can't be because nothing can come from nothing.  So here is the old question … where did your God come from?
I don't have a problem with science, it has given us many wonderful things. Science is also a way of learning about God's wonderful creation. As it says in Psalms "The heavens declare the glory of God, and the sky above proclaims his handiwork"

As for your other question, God didn't come from anywhere, he was always there

Online One Above All

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Re: If jesus appeared to you.
« Reply #67 on: November 08, 2018, 06:36:38 PM »
I don't claim to have all the answers or to be an expert in every field of science. But I can point you to someone who does know everything, you just have to be open to hearing his word. You will find you have a lot to learn, just like every other human (including me)

You claimed to understand the Big Bang. This claim is demonstrably untrue, because what you addressed doesn't even concern the theory of the Big Bang. Maybe admit your error before talking down to me. You know, show some actual humility.
If you read what I said, I said you have a lot to learn just like me. I'm showing humility right there, I'm not sure why you thought I was bragging about anything

I didn't read myself making factual errors, nor did I read you admitting you did make factual errors. I also didn't read myself making claims about subjects I know nothing about, whereas you did.
You're not showing humility; you're just trying to make it seem like you making a false claim is equivalent to me not knowing everything.
I know enough about the big bang to know one important thing, its not true! I don't need to know all the details, I doubt theres anyone in the world who knows or agrees on what all the details of that nonsense theory are

You have already demonstrated you don't even know what the Big Bang theory actually says. You are ignorant of the concept, yet are claiming to "know enough". You are demonstrably arrogant.
My names are many, yet I am One.
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Religions need books because they don't have gods.

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Offline Quad

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Re: If jesus appeared to you.
« Reply #68 on: November 08, 2018, 06:51:39 PM »
I don't claim to have all the answers or to be an expert in every field of science. But I can point you to someone who does know everything, you just have to be open to hearing his word. You will find you have a lot to learn, just like every other human (including me)

You claimed to understand the Big Bang. This claim is demonstrably untrue, because what you addressed doesn't even concern the theory of the Big Bang. Maybe admit your error before talking down to me. You know, show some actual humility.
If you read what I said, I said you have a lot to learn just like me. I'm showing humility right there, I'm not sure why you thought I was bragging about anything

I didn't read myself making factual errors, nor did I read you admitting you did make factual errors. I also didn't read myself making claims about subjects I know nothing about, whereas you did.
You're not showing humility; you're just trying to make it seem like you making a false claim is equivalent to me not knowing everything.
I know enough about the big bang to know one important thing, its not true! I don't need to know all the details, I doubt theres anyone in the world who knows or agrees on what all the details of that nonsense theory are

You have already demonstrated you don't even know what the Big Bang theory actually says. You are ignorant of the concept, yet are claiming to "know enough". You are demonstrably arrogant.
I'm still not sure what's arrogant about me. I said I don't know everything about the big bang. I also don't know everything about the flat earth theory, but I know enough to be sure it is false. Do you know everything the flat earthers claim? Even if you don't you probably agree they are wrong, does that make you arrogant?

Online One Above All

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Re: If jesus appeared to you.
« Reply #69 on: November 08, 2018, 06:58:12 PM »
I'm still not sure what's arrogant about me. I said I don't know everything about the big bang. I also don't know everything about the flat earth theory, but I know enough to be sure it is false. Do you know everything the flat earthers claim? Even if you don't you probably agree they are wrong, does that make you arrogant?

You are arrogant because you are demonstrably ignorant about the Big Bang theory, yet claim to "know enough" that you can ascertain its validity. Other than its name, you have not demonstrated you know anything about it; in fact, everything you've said about it apart from the name is demonstrably wrong. You don't even understand what a theory is, much less any specific theory.
My names are many, yet I am One.
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Offline Quad

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Re: If jesus appeared to you.
« Reply #70 on: November 08, 2018, 07:09:54 PM »
I'm still not sure what's arrogant about me. I said I don't know everything about the big bang. I also don't know everything about the flat earth theory, but I know enough to be sure it is false. Do you know everything the flat earthers claim? Even if you don't you probably agree they are wrong, does that make you arrogant?

You are arrogant because you are demonstrably ignorant about the Big Bang theory, yet claim to "know enough" that you can ascertain its validity. Other than its name, you have not demonstrated you know anything about it; in fact, everything you've said about it apart from the name is demonstrably wrong. You don't even understand what a theory is, much less any specific theory.
I know people claim the big bang occurred *billions* of years ago. That in itself is ridiculous and is enough to discredit it. God's universe is much younger than that, and it will end when he decides it will end. Not when some atheist scientists calculate it will happen

Online One Above All

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Re: If jesus appeared to you.
« Reply #71 on: November 08, 2018, 07:15:11 PM »
I know people claim the big bang occurred *billions* of years ago. That in itself is ridiculous and is enough to discredit it. God's universe is much younger than that, and it will end when he decides it will end. Not when some atheist scientists calculate it will happen

Like I said, you know nothing. You don't know about stellar drift or even simple radioactive decay, both of which disprove a young universe (though only the former bears any significance for the Big Bang theory). The Big Bang also has nothing to do with the end of the universe. Oh, and here's another fun tidbit: the Big Bang theory was first proposed by a christian.

The reason you believe this nonsense is because you are ignorant of reality. You think you "know enough", when in fact, you know nothing. If you have ever used GPS, you have accepted the same science used in the Big Bang theory. Both work, and there's a good reason for that.
My names are many, yet I am One.
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Religions need books because they don't have gods.

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Offline wright

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Re: If jesus appeared to you.
« Reply #72 on: November 08, 2018, 07:15:41 PM »
I know enough about the big bang to know one important thing, its not true! I don't need to know all the details, I doubt theres anyone in the world who knows or agrees on what all the details of that nonsense theory are

With respect Quad, this comes across as an emotional response rather than a reasoned one. For one, the big bang theory does not state that the universe came from nothing. 

Rather than further divert the thread, here's a link to a recent discussion we had about that topic... http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/topic,31134.0.html

Live a good life... If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. I am not afraid.
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Offline Nick

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Re: If jesus appeared to you.
« Reply #73 on: November 08, 2018, 07:19:03 PM »
So let me guess...the Earth and the Universe is about 10,000 years old...right???
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

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Offline Quad

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Re: If jesus appeared to you.
« Reply #74 on: November 08, 2018, 07:37:44 PM »
I know enough about the big bang to know one important thing, its not true! I don't need to know all the details, I doubt theres anyone in the world who knows or agrees on what all the details of that nonsense theory are

With respect Quad, this comes across as an emotional response rather than a reasoned one. For one, the big bang theory does not state that the universe came from nothing. 

Rather than further divert the thread, here's a link to a recent discussion we had about that topic... http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/topic,31134.0.html
Thanks wright, looks like a lot of reading material there lol

Offline Quad

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Re: If jesus appeared to you.
« Reply #75 on: November 08, 2018, 07:38:51 PM »
So let me guess...the Earth and the Universe is about 10,000 years old...right???
Around 6,000 if I remember correct, based on the ages of the ancestors of Jesus as given in the bible

Offline albeto

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Re: If jesus appeared to you.
« Reply #76 on: November 08, 2018, 10:07:45 PM »
That's why it's necessary to not just read but study the bible and pray for guidance.

Your prescription - read and study founding documents of religions, and prayer - are used by people in many religions world wide. Do you think in general such a method is sufficient for knowledge?
« Last Edit: November 08, 2018, 10:11:37 PM by albeto »

Offline albeto

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Re: If jesus appeared to you.
« Reply #77 on: November 08, 2018, 10:14:20 PM »
Quad, what is the difference between magic and miracles?
Magicians perform magic tricks (which aren't really magic but are illusions of magic). Miracles are performed by God (and are real)

Can you offer something more substantive than a No True Scotsman defense?

Offline Nick

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Re: If jesus appeared to you.
« Reply #78 on: November 08, 2018, 10:20:02 PM »
So let me guess...the Earth and the Universe is about 10,000 years old...right???
Around 6,000 if I remember correct, based on the ages of the ancestors of Jesus as given in the bible
OK, to say this is just nuts is an understatement.  So I will leave it there.  I don't think we have much more to discuss.  Have a good life with your imaginary Sky Daddy.
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

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Offline Quad

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Re: If jesus appeared to you.
« Reply #79 on: November 08, 2018, 10:33:35 PM »
Nick you can call God names if you want. It doesn't hurt me or him (I'm sure he's been called much worse)

The soldiers who whipped Jesus mocked him too. If instead you turn to him with an open heart and ask him sincerely to reveal himself and answer your questions, you won't be disappointed!

Offline Mr. Blackwell

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Re: If jesus appeared to you.
« Reply #80 on: November 08, 2018, 10:35:02 PM »
To be perfectly honest and since this is a subject which requires absolutely no scientific proof or evidence I feel perfectly qualified to comment on the question.

I don't think it's the right question to be asking in the first place.

What would you do if Satan appeared to you?

Now there's a serious question.

How would you convince others that Satan is real?

I am not sure how to describe the intricacies of this Hell, so I chose to begin with the most common or prominent theme of Hell, which is uncertainty.

Offline albeto

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Re: If jesus appeared to you.
« Reply #81 on: November 09, 2018, 12:41:46 AM »
Nick you can call God names if you want. It doesn't hurt me or him (I'm sure he's been called much worse)

The bible says god will not be mocked. Specifically, it says that god will not be mocked; whatever a man sows, so shall he reap (Gal 6:7). Well, that's kind of useless. I mean, how is this functionally indistinguishable from the laws of cause and effect? Natural consequences? My mocking your god hasn't brought me any more hardships than when I was a believer. There does not exist any observable difference in the quality of life of believers vs. non believers, no matter how you define it. In fact, I would say my life is measurably better now that I've left that behind, and even since I've actively started to mock god. Some of it is coincidental to be sure, but much is directly related to leaving behind my faith.

The soldiers who whipped Jesus mocked him too. If instead you turn to him with an open heart and ask him sincerely to reveal himself and answer your questions, you won't be disappointed!

I would again challenge you to find some answers that don't rely on a No True Scotsman fallacy.

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Re: If jesus appeared to you.
« Reply #82 on: November 09, 2018, 04:15:06 AM »
As I said, if someone told me he was Jesus but didn't fulfill what was said in Revelation then I wouldn't believe him. I don't care if he shows me a card trick or pretends to catch a bullet in his teeth like Penn and teller. What am I missing here?

You are missing that your original presumption that the NT is true, carries equal weight to the new Jesus that shows up in the "wrong" way. The basis of the NT is that original Jesus could do tricks, therefore he was LORD.  If the new Jesus can do tricks, he must be equally LORD, by the same criterion.

The new Jesus could easily convince you that your presumption that the NT was accurate, is highly flawed. He would show you how Matthew was written by numerous people and many random personal opinions were added to it. Your faith in the accuracy of the NT would suddenly erode.

I presume you get the idea that the NT is correct, from peer group pressure, telling you that the church assembled the books correctly. A new Jesus would act like a new peer, pressuring you.

I see no reason why the church should be believed to have assembled the books correctly. If I presume that the words of Jesus are actually reported in Matthew (which is a long shot), his testimony alone, undermine Paul, John and Revelation. It's only bloody-minded assertion that keeps you ignoring what Jesus says.
When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be bleedn obvious.

Online One Above All

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Re: If jesus appeared to you.
« Reply #83 on: November 09, 2018, 04:20:13 AM »
As I said, if someone told me he was Jesus but didn't fulfill what was said in Revelation then I wouldn't believe him. I don't care if he shows me a card trick or pretends to catch a bullet in his teeth like Penn and teller. What am I missing here?

You are missing that your original presumption that the NT is true, carries equal weight to the new Jesus that shows up in the "wrong" way. The basis of the NT is that original Jesus could do tricks, therefore he was LORD.  If the new Jesus can do tricks, he must be equally LORD, by the same criterion.

The new Jesus could easily convince you that your presumption that the NT was accurate, is highly flawed. He would show you how Matthew was written by numerous people and many random personal opinions were added to it. Your faith in the accuracy of the NT would suddenly erode.

I presume you get the idea that the NT is correct, from peer group pressure, telling you that the church assembled the books correctly. A new Jesus would act like a new peer, pressuring you.

I see no reason why the church should be believed to have assembled the books correctly. If I presume that the words of Jesus are actually reported in Matthew (which is a long shot), his testimony alone, undermine Paul, John and Revelation. It's only bloody-minded assertion that keeps you ignoring what Jesus says.

I'd like to argue this point: Quad has no faith that the NT is true. He has faith that his interpretation of the NT is true. He's so arrogant that not even his own god could convince him he's wrong; in fact, he's stated repeatedly that his god must conform to what he believes, or else he wouldn't even acknowledge it as his god. Quad has already dismissed any and all possibility that he's wrong, to the point that the supreme being he believes in, if it existed, couldn't even convince him he's wrong, and this supreme being is, by his own beliefs, all-knowing. He has literally placed his own knowledge above that of an all-knowing entity.
Arguing with him is pointless, because he's the Dunning-Kruger effect personified. Just look at how he is demonstrably ignorant of the Big Bang theory, yet still claims to "know enough" to dismiss it.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2018, 04:23:16 AM by One Above All »
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Re: If jesus appeared to you.
« Reply #84 on: November 09, 2018, 04:28:02 AM »
What would you do if Satan appeared to you?

Now there's a serious question.

How would you convince others that Satan is real?

Don't see how it's any different. The problem is that we are not qualified to judge whether someone significantly more miraculous than us, (or a hallucination), is telling the truth or not.
When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be bleedn obvious.

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Re: If jesus appeared to you.
« Reply #85 on: November 09, 2018, 04:30:19 AM »
Just look at how he is demonstrably ignorant of the Big Bang theory, yet still claims to "know enough" to dismiss it.

I think what he means, is that he has been to many many trashy websites that explain to him why the Big Bang theory is wrong, therefore he believes them.
When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be bleedn obvious.

Offline jdawg70

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Re: If jesus appeared to you.
« Reply #86 on: November 09, 2018, 09:26:12 AM »
Well think of a child waiting for his dad to pick him up from school. He may not know what his dad will be wearing or even the exact type of car he will be driving. But he will know its his dad when he sees and hears him, even tho he can't say exactly what tells him its his dad. A stranger may claim to be his father but the child will know its a lie

So at what point does the child consult a book?  Your analogy here is quite different from the scenario we've been talking about.  The scenario we've been talking about looks a lot more like this:

A child is waiting for his dad to pick him up from school.  He may not know what his dad will be wearing or even the exact type of car he will be driving.  But he will know its his dad when he acts like the person described in this book.  A stranger may claim to be his father, but the child will know it's a lie because he did not act like the person described in this book.

or

A child is waiting for his dad to pick him up from school.  He may not know what his dad will be wearing or even the exact type of car he will be driving.  But he will know its his dad when he acts like the person described in this bookHis dad may claim to be his father, but the child will know it's a lie because he did not act like the person described in this book.
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."

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