Author Topic: Abortion: There is No Ethical Dilemma  (Read 615 times)

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Online albeto

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Re: Abortion: There is No Ethical Dilemma
« Reply #58 on: July 24, 2018, 08:56:45 PM »
I'm sure she does. Do you recognise how ridiculous Velkyn was in that whole exchange, summarised above?

Velkyn's point is irrelevant to our discussion.

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I'm not prepared to start researching the various methods of abortion. I find it distressing personally, and I also recognise that people reading this may have had abortions, and do not wish to read such things.

In another thread you said, If I see examples of people stating fact with insufficient evidence, I will call it out, as do you. Keeping each other honest. You stated a claim (not a fact) with insufficient evidence (your wife's opinion). I'm calling it out. You've ignored this since yesterday.

I'm not asking you to research various methods of abortion. How did you come to the idea that was even my request? I'm asking you if your wife now understands the difference between abortion and homicide, as yesterday it was clear you and she did not.

Offline DGA

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Re: Abortion: There is No Ethical Dilemma
« Reply #59 on: July 25, 2018, 02:03:17 AM »
Oh, miles, you must have forgotten your own comment in that topic:

http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/topic,28159.msg652683.html#msg652683

No, I re-read the whole sorry excuse for a thread yesterday. You choosing to repeat the bullshit lies of a story doesn't excuse you for that train-wreck of a thread.

I inteprteted his meaning

Yes, you did. Very dishonestly.


http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/topic,28159.msg652683.html#msg652683

But since you feel this way, you can never interpret anyone's meaning to be other than literal, right?

Wrong. You can interpret people's meaning non-literally via many different and legitimate methods. But blatantly lying isn't one of them.

http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/topic,28159.msg652683.html#msg652683

So, no more interpreting that Bible for you. Everything in it must be literal at all times to do otherwise would be you lying.

No - things can be correctly interpreted non-literally. For example:



Checkmate, punk.

We weren't playing chess, so I am assuming you think you have bested me in some other imagined 'battle of strategy and intellect'

Am I correct?

Pelican.[1]
 1. I don't really believe you are a large bird

I did not dishonestly interpret his meaning. He stated that women who get raped shouldn't get abortions because babies are born from it, and that's beautiful. My interpretation of his statement is on par with everyone else's but apparently people like him and you. These people are not pro-life. They are pro-babies being born. That's it. They do not care at all for the victim nor the babies but for them being born, after they're born they don't care one iota what happens to them; and since you agree with that asshat and those like him, you are as big of a monster as he and they àre. Period.

Every debate/argument/discussion I have is a Chess match. You lost. You lost the click-bait argument because my title was based on the linked title, and even you conceded that fact in said topic, which I linked directly to your comment. You lost. So, Checkmate.
"Poetry and its creations, philosophy and its researches and classifications, alike awoke the sleeping ideas in my mind, and gave me new ones." (from "The Last Man" (1826)) -- Mary Shelley

Online velkyn

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Re: Abortion: There is No Ethical Dilemma
« Reply #60 on: July 25, 2018, 09:34:42 AM »
Magic Miles, it’s highly preferred that inaccurate information isn’t shared here.

Emma, she asked me where my wife got her information, and I told her!! Then she acts as though I've trying to 'appeal to authority' - all I did was answer a simple question! She's carrying on as though I have tried to validate my wife's opinion, when all I did was politely answer her question! Its freakin' unbelievable.

because you are, MM.  There was no reason to mention your wife's degree other than to try to imply that she has some knowledge about the subject.  As Albeto has pointed out, neither of you appear to.    You appear to be indignant because I questioned your source, when that should be no problem at all and pointed out that there was no reason to accept your source.  Why you are so upset about this is beyond me, *unless* you are upset because your gambit failed. 
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Online velkyn

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Re: Abortion: There is No Ethical Dilemma
« Reply #61 on: July 25, 2018, 09:39:40 AM »
This is a blog post from one of the Pastor's at our church. I think its well written, and I wholeheartedly agree with his perspective. I could never express myself this well; I'm much too prone to immature argument.

https://creekroad.org.au/abortion-and-loving-our-neighbours-as-we-love-ourselves/

So your pastor starts with the good Samaritan story

No, he doesn't.  &)


really?  Oh, this is rich, especially when Christians often whine about context.  Let's see what the pastor wrote: "On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus.
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“Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”

“What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”

He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’; and, ‘Love your neighbour as yourself.’”

“You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.”

But he wanted to justify himself, so he asked Jesus, “And who is my neighbour?” — Luke 10:25-29"
and the story:

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25 Just then a lawyer stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he said, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”  26 He said to him, “What is written in the law? What do you read there?”  27 He answered, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbor as yourself.”  28 And he said to him, “You have given the right answer; do this, and you will live.”

29 But wanting to justify himself, he asked Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?”  30 Jesus replied, “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell into the hands of robbers, who stripped him, beat him, and went away, leaving him half dead.  31 Now by chance a priest was going down that road; and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side.  32 So likewise a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side.  33 But a Samaritan while traveling came near him; and when he saw him, he was moved with pity.  34 He went to him and bandaged his wounds, having poured oil and wine on them. Then he put him on his own animal, brought him to an inn, and took care of him.  35 The next day he took out two denarii,[k] gave them to the innkeeper, and said, ‘Take care of him; and when I come back, I will repay you whatever more you spend.’  36 Which of these three, do you think, was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of the robbers?”  37 He said, “The one who showed him mercy.” Jesus said to him, “Go and do likewise.”


We also have the ignorant assumption that women just go willy nilly off to have an abortion. 


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From the blog:

Affirming the fundamental dignity and value of women — and that they are worthy of love not condemnation or isolation in the sorts of circumstances that prompt abortions..


and

There are lots of tragic reasons for abortions — there are of course medical cases involving risks to the life of the mother, or where the pregnancy is unviable, or the extreme cases of rape and incest where much more complicated ethical frameworks might be brought to bear on those individual circumstances

I feel that its best I choose to stop engaging with you, because I just don't have it in me to react politely to your bizarre errors and outrageous mis-reading of things.

What the pastor claimed
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Affirming the fundamental dignity and value of women — and that they are worthy of love not condemnation or isolation in the sorts of circumstances that prompt abortions, and that their value is not based on some thing that pregnancy might threaten (like a career) — requires us to also affirm the fundamental dignity and value of the unborn person.

it's hilarious that MM decided he needed to edit what his pastor said to avoid my point.  Oh darn, MM, look what you chose to exclude.   And it's even more funny when you whine here:

No, you can't paraphrase when it changes what someone said, and you certainly can't paraphrase with QUOTATION MARKS, you total and complete muppet.

Now, what prompts a Christian to try to be this deceitful?   I'm sure you do want to stop engaging with me, and it is probably hard to react politely to someone who can show you to be the failure you are.  Such a pity. 

« Last Edit: July 25, 2018, 09:49:37 AM by velkyn »
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Offline Emma286

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Re: Abortion: There is No Ethical Dilemma
« Reply #62 on: July 25, 2018, 09:48:16 AM »
Magic Miles, it’s highly preferred that inaccurate information isn’t shared here.

Emma, she asked me where my wife got her information, and I told her!! Then she acts as though I've trying to 'appeal to authority' - all I did was answer a simple question! She's carrying on as though I have tried to validate my wife's opinion, when all I did was politely answer her question! Its freakin' unbelievable.

because you are, MM.  There was no reason to mention your wife's degree other than to try to imply that she has some knowledge about the subject.  As Albeto has pointed out, neither of you appear to.    You appear to be indignant because I questioned your source, when that should be no problem at all and pointed out that there was no reason to accept your source.  Why you are so upset about this is beyond me, *unless* you are upset because your gambit failed.

Hoping you don’t mind my chiming in here Velkyn. To be fair to the guy, he didn’t mention any degree till you asked where he got his wife’s information. I can see why he would have mentioned that as you asked.

I think he felt indignant because he see’s his posting intentions were taken the wrong way...

Online velkyn

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Re: Abortion: There is No Ethical Dilemma
« Reply #63 on: July 25, 2018, 10:00:57 AM »
Magic Miles, it’s highly preferred that inaccurate information isn’t shared here.

Emma, she asked me where my wife got her information, and I told her!! Then she acts as though I've trying to 'appeal to authority' - all I did was answer a simple question! She's carrying on as though I have tried to validate my wife's opinion, when all I did was politely answer her question! Its freakin' unbelievable.

because you are, MM.  There was no reason to mention your wife's degree other than to try to imply that she has some knowledge about the subject.  As Albeto has pointed out, neither of you appear to.    You appear to be indignant because I questioned your source, when that should be no problem at all and pointed out that there was no reason to accept your source.  Why you are so upset about this is beyond me, *unless* you are upset because your gambit failed.

Hoping you don’t mind my chiming in here Velkyn. To be fair to the guy, he didn’t mention any degree till you asked where he got his wife’s information. I can see why he would have mentioned that as you asked.

I think he felt indignant because he see’s his posting intentions were taken the wrong way...

Yep, I did ask him where he got the information, and then when he posted where, I pointed out that it failed.  MM doesn't like that. 

let's look at what was said.  To Albeto's question "why would it be an ethical dilemma"  MM said "From what my wife told me last night (I have not done any research because I find it quite distressing), the baby is induced, and then killed outside the womb by having a sharp object driven through its skull"

To my question where she got the info from we got
"I think it has come under discussion as part of her almost completed medical laboratory science degree. And I make no apologies for not actively seeking out descriptions of how late term abortions occur. However, if you can demonstrate that late term abortions are NOT performed in this manner, I'd actually be very grateful and relieved."

From what we know, an abortion isn't done this way, so his claim that he thinks this has come under discussion in her class is suspect at best.  That incorrect claims about abortion would be discussed in this type of class is unlikely.   Thus, this is why I think his claim about it being in a med tech class is an appeal to authority, that we should accept the word of someone who is in a class about medical things and they must be right about what they claim.

As an example,  if the subject was diesel engines, and I said that they fail because of gremlins.  Someone says that's wrong.  I reply that they must be because I was speaking with my spouse last night about it and he was a student of gasoline engines and he must have said something about this.   I may indeed be too suspicious of MM, but his constant false claim have become the petard he is hoist by. 
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Online Jag

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Re: Abortion: There is No Ethical Dilemma
« Reply #64 on: July 25, 2018, 10:29:14 AM »
From what my wife told me last night (I have not done any research because I find it quite distressing), the baby is induced, and then killed outside the womb by having a sharp object driven through its skull.

Why is this so difficult to understand Miles? You flat out state that you have not, and WILL not, do any research on this question - and at the same time, you state that this is your belief and it's up to someone else to prove you wrong.

Where's the accountability you're demanding from other Miles?

Do some research for yourself, you lazy fraud.
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Offline Emma286

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Re: Abortion: There is No Ethical Dilemma
« Reply #65 on: July 26, 2018, 09:34:49 AM »
Appreciate the explanation Velkyn. I get where you were coming from.

Magic Miles,  if you look back at the first page of this thread (assuming a third person view point)/read over it again (bearing in mind the first three post responses you made) it’ll become clearer as to why Velkyn said all she did - along with bearing in mind all she just pointed out to me.

Offline Chronos

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Re: Abortion: There is No Ethical Dilemma
« Reply #66 on: July 26, 2018, 08:11:52 PM »
I agree that there is no ethical dilemma regarding abortion. A woman should have the right to terminate her pregnancy at any point during the pregnancy. That eliminates all ethical dilemmas.
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