Author Topic: Christians arguing amongst themselves.  (Read 416 times)

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Offline jetson

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Re: Christians arguing amongst themselves.
« Reply #29 on: July 12, 2018, 06:34:48 AM »
I'm curious as to whether any of the historical context behind the Bible is important to you? In other words, do you care how it was put together?

Definitely, big J. But I sure wish there was a reliable Readers Digest version of the history surrounding it, as you know I am a very lazy Australian.

I had a quick look at this just now:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_canon

Based on the colour coded table at the end, it doesn't appear to me there is actually a whole lot of disagreement between the Christian denominations.

It's only your eternal soul at stake, so I suppose if you're confidence is high enough who am I to ask if you actually understand what you've signed up for.

Of course I am coming from the non-belief side, so my concerns are really a mere thought experiment. The human psyche is perfectly capable of adopting all sorts of rationalizations for almost anything. Even when we recognize irrational thoughts, we can cling to them in visceral ways - probably a survival mechanism from our evolutionary past.

I think the most important reason to look into how the Bible was put together, is to recognize that the entire religion and all of its writings are a manmade construct, without a doubt. There can really be no debate over who wrote this stuff down - it was humans. And the inspiration for these writings is mostly obvious, but also not based in observable reality. You are putting some level of complete trust in other humans who were somehow inspired to create these stories, some of it historical, and a lot of it mythological. If that brings you comfort, then perhaps it does not truly matter how it all came about?


Offline velkyn

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Re: Christians arguing amongst themselves.
« Reply #30 on: July 12, 2018, 07:06:10 AM »
When I read the bible, I see a gradually developing story of creation, rebellion, consequence, a promise and the keeping of a promise. Millions of others see the same thing. If you don't, it doesn't mean it isn't there.

and you have yet to show that what you claim is true, that it is there at all. 

You want to appeal to no more than popularity.  However, you forget that millions are sure that you are wrong, far more than that you are right.  As has been pointed out, and you've tried to ignore, Christians don't agree and are quite sure each other is going to hell for not getting what you claim are insignificant differences correct.  They  believe this so much that they try to convert Christians of one form of Christianity to another, wasting resources in the process.

If your claim that the differences are insignificant, then your version of your religion wouldn't do that. 
"There is no use in arguing with a man who can multiply anything by the square root of minus 1" - Pirates of Venus, ERB

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Offline Jag

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Re: Christians arguing amongst themselves.
« Reply #31 on: July 12, 2018, 09:55:18 AM »
So yeah, getting back to the topic of the thread, it really is kind of funny. I don't go to theist forums, but have followed links and found myself reading comment threads where theists absolutely do rip into each other over matters of doctrine. Crystal Dragon wrote about that experience a few times.

It seems to be the case that theists will argue with each other among themselves. The presence of atheists is like having a Muslim show up - all 'petty' disputes are ignored in favor of uniting against the perceived enemy.

Miles can spin this however he wants to, vocal atheists online are the best thing to happen to theists ever. We give them a reason to resist their doubts, and a place to dump their insecurities about their faith. What better test of faith than to hang out in an atheist forum? If they can hold onto their faith while being constantly challenged, that MUST mean something.

Never mind that hanging out here with us is a secret vice that is hidden from family members. Ignore the humor behind stealing company time to argue with atheists online. Overlook the dishonesty. This shit is important, dammit!
"Tell people that there's an invisible man in the sky that created the entire universe and the majority believe you. Tell them the paint is wet, and they have to touch it to be sure." ~George Carlin

Offline clip11

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Re: Christians arguing amongst themselves.
« Reply #32 on: August 25, 2018, 07:08:17 AM »

In the old testament, god appeared and gave the Jews his law. So there was no question that God didn't want you wearing clothes made of 2 types of fabric or that you couldn't plant two types of crops in the same field or where you could buy your slaves from or how hard you could beat them.

God came down and clearly and decisively spelled it all out. He should do the same today

Offline YouCantHandleTheTruth

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Re: Christians arguing amongst themselves.
« Reply #33 on: August 29, 2018, 08:58:42 AM »
When I read the bible, I see a gradually developing story of creation, rebellion, consequence, a promise and the keeping of a promise. Millions of others see the same thing. If you don't, it doesn't mean it isn't there.

You just showed how you are just as right/wrong as anyone else. What you see is a Catholic narrative, do you understand how that is? Do you know how this was put together? Have you read the historical context put together by academics? This is not in dispute from the Catholics that I am aware of.

That by itself does not prove you wrong, but it does not in any way prove you right. You are among a large number of people who "see" this narrative in the way that you described. I'm curious as to whether any of the historical context behind the Bible is important to you? In other words, do you care how it was put together?

Yeah I think that's the argumentum ad populum.  "Well all these other people see what I see, so it must be true."  All these other people might see it the same way because they were taught to see it that way from age 5 on. 

I see a lot of books telling different stories, like Aesop's Fables.  But unlike those, these are much more violent.  That's likely because of the culture of the society in which they were written.  Because they were a violent people, they probably figured God would be violent in his justice as well.  Cultures that are less violent are likely to have Gods that aren't as violent as the Old Testament God. 

As is pointed out, the only thing most Christians seem to have in common is that they know there's a heaven where they get to live forever in paradise.  They, and anyone they care about, will be there.  No exceptions.  Those that don't believe what they believe and/or that they don't like will be in hell.  Often if they don't like someone, even if they're Christian, they'll rationalize it and say "well they're not a true Christian."  That could be because they don't want to spend eternity with this person.

Who would want to spend eternity in heaven with a person that raped them, after the person repented?  A constant reminder of this person and what they did to you?  No - the person that was raped will say that person will never make it to heaven, in all likelihood.  Or, if you're the parents of a rape victim you'll say that.  You might even say you forgive them, but in your mind you might say "God will give the ultimate justice."  In their minds, it means that person won't make it.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2018, 09:02:11 AM by YouCantHandleTheTruth »