Author Topic: Christians arguing amongst themselves.  (Read 419 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Mr. Blackwell

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 5114
  • Darwins +360/-39
  • Gender: Male
Christians arguing amongst themselves.
« on: July 08, 2018, 10:51:04 PM »
« Last Edit: July 08, 2018, 10:53:55 PM by Mr. Blackwell »
I am not sure how to describe the intricacies of this Hell, so I chose to begin with the most common or prominent theme of Hell, which is uncertainty.

Offline Nick

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 13398
  • Darwins +406/-9
  • Gender: Male
Re: Christians arguing amongst themselves.
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2018, 08:32:24 AM »
I think he needs a bigger sign.
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

Tide goes in, tide goes out !!!

Offline albeto

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1784
  • Darwins +360/-4
Re: Christians arguing amongst themselves.
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2018, 10:55:39 AM »
Can you give us the Reader's Digest version?

I've noticed Xians never argue among themselves here. For example, for all MM's talk about reading things in context, he never corrects Jst for supposedly misinterpreting the texts when he says Jesus wasn't God or there is no Hell.

Offline Jag

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 4271
  • Darwins +555/-11
  • Gender: Female
  • Proudly 'biased' against the supernatural
Re: Christians arguing amongst themselves.
« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2018, 11:31:14 AM »
Can you give us the Reader's Digest version?

I've noticed Xians never argue among themselves here. For example, for all MM's talk about reading things in context, he never corrects Jst for supposedly misinterpreting the texts when he says Jesus wasn't God or there is no Hell.

More than once, I've been told by MM that those 'minor doctrinal differences' don't matter.

I take that to mean that he prefers to not disagree with a theist, as they are united against us even if they disagree with each other about the details. Because the details, although big enough to result in new twigs growing on the christian theism branch, are really not that important.
"Tell people that there's an invisible man in the sky that created the entire universe and the majority believe you. Tell them the paint is wet, and they have to touch it to be sure." ~George Carlin

Offline velkyn

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 18386
  • Darwins +446/-25
  • Gender: Female
  • You're wearing the juice, aren't you?"
Re: Christians arguing amongst themselves.
« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2018, 12:01:33 PM »
^^^I've asked about those "minor differences", and the Christian always runs away when you start asking about specifics.

If one Christian says that another Christian's version is wrong, then they find themselves in the position of how to show that theirs is right.  They can't, so it's easier to circle the wagons. 
"There is no use in arguing with a man who can multiply anything by the square root of minus 1" - Pirates of Venus, ERB

http://clubschadenfreude.wordpress.com/

Offline albeto

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1784
  • Darwins +360/-4
Re: Christians arguing amongst themselves.
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2018, 12:06:00 PM »
Can you give us the Reader's Digest version?

I've noticed Xians never argue among themselves here. For example, for all MM's talk about reading things in context, he never corrects Jst for supposedly misinterpreting the texts when he says Jesus wasn't God or there is no Hell.

More than once, I've been told by MM that those 'minor doctrinal differences' don't matter.

I take that to mean that he prefers to not disagree with a theist, as they are united against us even if they disagree with each other about the details. Because the details, although big enough to result in new twigs growing on the christian theism branch, are really not that important.

Then I guess Islam is just a difference of worship song styles and clothing choices when you get down to what's important.

Offline Jag

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 4271
  • Darwins +555/-11
  • Gender: Female
  • Proudly 'biased' against the supernatural
Re: Christians arguing amongst themselves.
« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2018, 12:25:18 PM »
You sure would think so, wouldn't you?
"Tell people that there's an invisible man in the sky that created the entire universe and the majority believe you. Tell them the paint is wet, and they have to touch it to be sure." ~George Carlin

Offline clip11

  • Graduate
  • ****
  • Posts: 319
  • Darwins +24/-5
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: Christians arguing amongst themselves.
« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2018, 07:36:12 PM »
^^^I've asked about those "minor differences", and the Christian always runs away when you start asking about specifics.

If one Christian says that another Christian's version is wrong, then they find themselves in the position of how to show that theirs is right.  They can't, so it's easier to circle the wagons.
There's no way any of them can show that they're right. It's all down to guess work and personal feelings

Offline magicmiles 2.0

  • Graduate
  • ****
  • Posts: 462
  • Darwins +14/-30
Re: Christians arguing amongst themselves.
« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2018, 08:01:08 PM »
Can you give us the Reader's Digest version?

I've noticed Xians never argue among themselves here. For example, for all MM's talk about reading things in context, he never corrects Jst for supposedly misinterpreting the texts when he says Jesus wasn't God or there is no Hell.

More than once, I've been told by MM that those 'minor doctrinal differences' don't matter.

I take that to mean that he prefers to not disagree with a theist, as they are united against us even if they disagree with each other about the details. Because the details, although big enough to result in new twigs growing on the christian theism branch, are really not that important.

I don't consider the divinity of Jesus or the reality of hell minor doctrinal differences, and theists are not united against you.

I don't disagree with other theists because all it would do is make theism less appealing to you, which is certainly not what I want.

Offline Jag

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 4271
  • Darwins +555/-11
  • Gender: Female
  • Proudly 'biased' against the supernatural
Re: Christians arguing amongst themselves.
« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2018, 08:32:02 PM »
Can you give us the Reader's Digest version?

I've noticed Xians never argue among themselves here. For example, for all MM's talk about reading things in context, he never corrects Jst for supposedly misinterpreting the texts when he says Jesus wasn't God or there is no Hell.

More than once, I've been told by MM that those 'minor doctrinal differences' don't matter.

I take that to mean that he prefers to not disagree with a theist, as they are united against us even if they disagree with each other about the details. Because the details, although big enough to result in new twigs growing on the christian theism branch, are really not that important.

I don't consider the divinity of Jesus or the reality of hell minor doctrinal differences,
What DO you consider a NON-insignificant doctrinal difference? Say, between any two branches of Protestanism? Why are there more than one in the first place? You've historically avoided any response of consequence, in favor of hand waving them aside as 'not important'.

So when you've leapt to applaud posts written by someone who reads the exact same bible as you do, and with as much sincerity as you, yet reaches an entirely different conclusion, well, you look like you're either the most inconsistent waffler about your own faith to ever grace these pages, or you're just cheering him on for being opposed to the atheist position.

Quote
and theists are not united against you.

Is that REALLY what you got from what I said? You've gone to great lengths to assure us of your reading comprehension abilities, but with your more recent contributions, now is not the time to start getting creative with your interpretations. Are you going to pretend that you couldn't tell that I was referring to you and jst specifically, given the context of my remark?

Quote
I don't disagree with other theists because all it would do is make theism less appealing to you, which is certainly not what I want.
Good god man, what the hell DO you want? Who do you think you're talking to? Do you really think you're going to 'make theism appealing' to a forum full of atheists who have arrived at their position after actually considering their beliefs? If so, based on WHAT?

You and jst present differing interpretations, and you do not disagree with each other - even when you say things that directly contradict each other. Is there a reason you decided to take up with my post while ignoring the one I was responding to? The one albeto wrote that mentioned you by name, and talked about the importance you place on context? That one?
« Last Edit: July 09, 2018, 08:35:14 PM by Jag »
"Tell people that there's an invisible man in the sky that created the entire universe and the majority believe you. Tell them the paint is wet, and they have to touch it to be sure." ~George Carlin

Offline magicmiles 2.0

  • Graduate
  • ****
  • Posts: 462
  • Darwins +14/-30
Re: Christians arguing amongst themselves.
« Reply #10 on: July 09, 2018, 08:42:19 PM »

Good god man, what the hell DO you want?

To correspond with people on topics I find interesting and significant, and to provide my own particular theistic perspective on the world.


 Is there a reason you decided to take up with my post while ignoring the one I was responding to? The one albeto wrote that mentioned you by name, and talked about the importance you place on context? That one?

I like corresponding with you more than Albeto. I find the dogs arse off-putting. Call me picky.

Offline Mr. Blackwell

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 5114
  • Darwins +360/-39
  • Gender: Male
Re: Christians arguing amongst themselves.
« Reply #11 on: July 09, 2018, 10:05:09 PM »
Can you give us the Reader's Digest version?

Basically what is shown is a modern day Johnathan Edwards style preacher picketing a Baptist church because instead of condemning homosexuals they apparently welcome them. He is well versed in the scriptures that support his claims about Jesus's condemnation of those who do not follow the Word and he is well versed in the old testament commandments about morality. He is basically telling his fellow believers in Christ that they got it all wrong and are carrying their congregation to Hell in a hand basket because they accept homosexual people in their congregation.

He is basically chastising a shepherd for leading his flock astray. 
I am not sure how to describe the intricacies of this Hell, so I chose to begin with the most common or prominent theme of Hell, which is uncertainty.

Offline albeto

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1784
  • Darwins +360/-4
Re: Christians arguing amongst themselves.
« Reply #12 on: July 09, 2018, 10:08:38 PM »
and theists are not united against you.

 :?

Quote
I don't disagree with other theists because all it would do is make theism less appealing to you, which is certainly not what I want.

What do you want? I had assumed you wanted to set the story straight, so to speak, to make sure that if we disagree with the faith we disagree with what the faith really is and not a misunderstanding or misrepresentation of it. Was I mistaken?

Offline Jag

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 4271
  • Darwins +555/-11
  • Gender: Female
  • Proudly 'biased' against the supernatural
Re: Christians arguing amongst themselves.
« Reply #13 on: July 09, 2018, 10:09:59 PM »

Good god man, what the hell DO you want?

To correspond with people on topics I find interesting and significant, and to provide my own particular theistic perspective on the world.
Oh good! Then let's try this again, share your perspective on my previously asked questions:
What DO you consider a NON-insignificant doctrinal difference? Say, between any two branches of Protestanism? Why are there more than one in the first place? You've historically avoided any response of consequence, in favor of hand waving them aside as 'not important'.

Those questions^^^, in case it isn't obvious.

Quote

So when you've leapt to applaud posts written by someone who reads the exact same bible as you do, and with as much sincerity as you, yet reaches an entirely different conclusion, well, you look like you're either the most inconsistent waffler about your own faith to ever grace these pages, or you're just cheering him on for being opposed to the atheist position.

Do you have a third alternative?


Quote

 Is there a reason you decided to take up with my post while ignoring the one I was responding to? The one albeto wrote that mentioned you by name, and talked about the importance you place on context? That one?

I like corresponding with you more than Albeto.
I honestly can't imagine why. She's a much nicer member than I am, and way less inclined to mockery. I'd pick her over me ever time.

.....are you secretly something of a masochist Miles?  :laugh:

Quote
I find the dogs arse off-putting. Call me picky.
You've more than once indicated that you find my attitude off-putting. Hell, I'm a pain in the ass, and we both know it. I'm inclined to think you're not being entirely truthful.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2018, 10:11:49 PM by Jag »
"Tell people that there's an invisible man in the sky that created the entire universe and the majority believe you. Tell them the paint is wet, and they have to touch it to be sure." ~George Carlin

Offline albeto

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1784
  • Darwins +360/-4
Re: Christians arguing amongst themselves.
« Reply #14 on: July 09, 2018, 10:10:39 PM »
Can you give us the Reader's Digest version?

Basically what is shown is a modern day Johnathan Edwards style preacher picketing a Baptist church because instead of condemning homosexuals they apparently welcome them. He is well versed in the scriptures that support his claims about Jesus's condemnation of those who do not follow the Word and he is well versed in the old testament commandments about morality. He is basically telling his fellow believers in Christ that they got it all wrong and are carrying their congregation to Hell in a hand basket because they accept homosexual people in their congregation.

He is basically chastising a shepherd for leading his flock astray.

Thanks. It does raise the question, how does the faithful know their faith is right? How do they know they've interpreted the texts the way in which they are meant to? How do they know they're tuned into the holy spirit and not their own conscience?

I know the answer, having been through that rodeo myself, but it still fascinates me to see people argue about what amounts to who has the better imagination to catch these invisible cues.

Offline Jag

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 4271
  • Darwins +555/-11
  • Gender: Female
  • Proudly 'biased' against the supernatural
Re: Christians arguing amongst themselves.
« Reply #15 on: July 09, 2018, 10:13:42 PM »
<snip>
 How do they know they're tuned into the holy spirit
<snip>
"Tell people that there's an invisible man in the sky that created the entire universe and the majority believe you. Tell them the paint is wet, and they have to touch it to be sure." ~George Carlin

Offline magicmiles 2.0

  • Graduate
  • ****
  • Posts: 462
  • Darwins +14/-30
Re: Christians arguing amongst themselves.
« Reply #16 on: July 09, 2018, 10:23:16 PM »

Good god man, what the hell DO you want?

To correspond with people on topics I find interesting and significant, and to provide my own particular theistic perspective on the world.
Oh good! Then let's try this again, share your perspective on my previously asked questions:
What DO you consider a NON-insignificant doctrinal difference? Say, between any two branches of Protestanism? Why are there more than one in the first place? You've historically avoided any response of consequence, in favor of hand waving them aside as 'not important'.

Those questions^^^, in case it isn't obvious.

[

I assume from the context and progression of the discussion that you actually mean 'what do you consider an insignificant difference to be'.

In which case, things such as whether baptism should occur as a child or as an adult (or both), pre-destination, literal 6 day creation, leadership positions of women. Things like that.

Why are there many, many branches of Protestanism? Because Christians, like anyone, tend to interact with those they share a POV with. And the bible is as complex as it is simple.

Offline jetson

  • Administrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 9050
  • Darwins +446/-6
  • Gender: Male
  • Meet George Jetson!
    • Jet Blog
Re: Christians arguing amongst themselves.
« Reply #17 on: July 10, 2018, 07:05:43 AM »

Good god man, what the hell DO you want?

To correspond with people on topics I find interesting and significant, and to provide my own particular theistic perspective on the world.
Oh good! Then let's try this again, share your perspective on my previously asked questions:
What DO you consider a NON-insignificant doctrinal difference? Say, between any two branches of Protestanism? Why are there more than one in the first place? You've historically avoided any response of consequence, in favor of hand waving them aside as 'not important'.

Those questions^^^, in case it isn't obvious.

[

I assume from the context and progression of the discussion that you actually mean 'what do you consider an insignificant difference to be'.

In which case, things such as whether baptism should occur as a child or as an adult (or both), pre-destination, literal 6 day creation, leadership positions of women. Things like that.

Why are there many, many branches of Protestanism? Because Christians, like anyone, tend to interact with those they share a POV with. And the bible is as complex as it is simple.

Why is the Bible both complex and simple?

Offline stuffin

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1641
  • Darwins +119/-4
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: Christians arguing amongst themselves.
« Reply #18 on: July 10, 2018, 07:36:31 AM »

Good god man, what the hell DO you want?

To correspond with people on topics I find interesting and significant, and to provide my own particular theistic perspective on the world.
Oh good! Then let's try this again, share your perspective on my previously asked questions:
What DO you consider a NON-insignificant doctrinal difference? Say, between any two branches of Protestanism? Why are there more than one in the first place? You've historically avoided any response of consequence, in favor of hand waving them aside as 'not important'.

Those questions^^^, in case it isn't obvious.

[

I assume from the context and progression of the discussion that you actually mean 'what do you consider an insignificant difference to be'.

In which case, things such as whether baptism should occur as a child or as an adult (or both), pre-destination, literal 6 day creation, leadership positions of women. Things like that.

Why are there many, many branches of Protestanism? Because Christians, like anyone, tend to interact with those they share a POV with. And the bible is as complex as it is simple.

I'm with jetson, what is that supposed to mean. Sounds more like a catch phrase to excuse the inconsistencies and inaccuracies in the  bible.
Don't stop smiling at the world and keep your head full of hope.

Offline Nick

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 13398
  • Darwins +406/-9
  • Gender: Male
Re: Christians arguing amongst themselves.
« Reply #19 on: July 10, 2018, 08:20:50 AM »
Complex and simple.  I get it... like 3 gods in one.  Makes sense to me.
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

Tide goes in, tide goes out !!!

Offline velkyn

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 18386
  • Darwins +446/-25
  • Gender: Female
  • You're wearing the juice, aren't you?"
Re: Christians arguing amongst themselves.
« Reply #20 on: July 10, 2018, 08:43:28 AM »

Good god man, what the hell DO you want?

To correspond with people on topics I find interesting and significant, and to provide my own particular theistic perspective on the world.
Oh good! Then let's try this again, share your perspective on my previously asked questions:
What DO you consider a NON-insignificant doctrinal difference? Say, between any two branches of Protestanism? Why are there more than one in the first place? You've historically avoided any response of consequence, in favor of hand waving them aside as 'not important'.

Those questions^^^, in case it isn't obvious.

[

I assume from the context and progression of the discussion that you actually mean 'what do you consider an insignificant difference to be'.

In which case, things such as whether baptism should occur as a child or as an adult (or both), pre-destination, literal 6 day creation, leadership positions of women. Things like that.

Why are there many, many branches of Protestanism? Because Christians, like anyone, tend to interact with those they share a POV with. And the bible is as complex as it is simple.

It's interesting that MM wants to pretend predestination isn't important when it directly contradicts Christian claims of free will.   It's also interesting that he chooses to answer his own question, and not Jag's.   Now, MM, do you find Catholics beliefs to be a non-insignificant doctrinal difference? 

The claim that the "bible is as complex as it is simple" is just more meaningless Christian nonsense spouted to sound ever so "deep".  That deepity is meaningless.   

I do like this though: 
Quote
I don't disagree with other theists because all it would do is make theism less appealing to you, which is certainly not what I want.

yep, exactly what C.S. Lewis was going for, getting Christians to lie by omission by hiding their problems. 

"There is no use in arguing with a man who can multiply anything by the square root of minus 1" - Pirates of Venus, ERB

http://clubschadenfreude.wordpress.com/

Offline Jag

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 4271
  • Darwins +555/-11
  • Gender: Female
  • Proudly 'biased' against the supernatural
Re: Christians arguing amongst themselves.
« Reply #21 on: July 10, 2018, 04:14:29 PM »

Good god man, what the hell DO you want?

To correspond with people on topics I find interesting and significant, and to provide my own particular theistic perspective on the world.
Oh good! Then let's try this again, share your perspective on my previously asked questions:
What DO you consider a NON-insignificant doctrinal difference? Say, between any two branches of Protestanism? Why are there more than one in the first place? You've historically avoided any response of consequence, in favor of hand waving them aside as 'not important'.

Those questions^^^, in case it isn't obvious.

[

I assume from the context and progression of the discussion that you actually mean 'what do you consider an insignificant difference to be'.
No, that's not what I mean.

I asked, and wish to know, what you perceive as a meaningful difference between, let's say, two different branches of Protestantism. Like I asked. A meaningful difference, since a difference of some sort must exist, or there would be no reason for MULTIPLE versions of "not Catholic but still Christian theist".

(A quick little aside, because it truly is not clear if you even understand the history of the book you revere - Catholics are the ones who compiled and selected the various texts that came to be included in the book you call the Bible. In MANY respects, it's THEIR book, and the rest of you are heretics. Obviously, I think it's all silly nonsense, but i want to be sure that you KNOW where the Bible comes from.)

The rest doesn't matter, as it has nothing to do with what I asked you about.

Quote
Why are there many, many branches of Protestanism? Because Christians, like anyone, tend to interact with those they share a POV with.
WTF?

I'm pretty sure that you'll want to reconsider that answer when you realize that you just made religion sound like a social club. Is that really what you meant? Is THAT how you are going to 'explain' the endless variety of schisms that exist in Christian theism? It isn't a matter of sincere differences of interpretation? Do you know when the splintering of christianity started? Are you really trying to suggest that way back then, people were church hopping to hang out with their friends?

 :o :o :o :o :o

This is a prime example of you hand-waving away the things you prefer to avoid actually having to think about.


Quote
And the bible is as complex as it is simple.
Whoa, deepity.  in fact, it's way too deep for me to make any sense of at all, so why don't you put that into a better context for the rest of us? It appears that I'm not the only one wondering wtf that means.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2018, 04:26:07 PM by Jag »
"Tell people that there's an invisible man in the sky that created the entire universe and the majority believe you. Tell them the paint is wet, and they have to touch it to be sure." ~George Carlin

Offline albeto

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1784
  • Darwins +360/-4
Re: Christians arguing amongst themselves.
« Reply #22 on: July 10, 2018, 04:49:45 PM »
I'm with jetson, what is that supposed to mean. Sounds more like a catch phrase to excuse the inconsistencies and inaccuracies in the  bible.

That's exactly what it is - a pithy catch phrase to give permission to the believer to stop asking questions, to suppress any curiosity in lieu of a comforting tale of eternal pleasures as a reward to those who don't ask too many questions.

It's complex because it's not one, coherent story. It's a library, a compilation of poems, histories (conflicting, competing, and at times hilariously intertwined), laws, and fan-fic stories about a celestial hero whose biography was placed in a physical location, as was a commonly accepted literary practice. I'm guessing it was not unlike making movies out of popular books. I think about it this way, books invoke imagination but movies allow you to see the characters physically. In the same way, thinking about a celestial priest invoked the imagination, but placing him in Jerusalem made it possible to see where he would have been, such as coming into the city of Jerusalem on a donkey (or donkey and colt, like some Jewish Annie Oakley, depending on which gospel account you believe).

It's so obvious that it's different stories squished together, pretending to be one, unified message. It's just a mess. It's only complex if it *has* to be one, unified message.

Offline jetson

  • Administrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 9050
  • Darwins +446/-6
  • Gender: Male
  • Meet George Jetson!
    • Jet Blog
Re: Christians arguing amongst themselves.
« Reply #23 on: July 10, 2018, 05:18:42 PM »
I'm with jetson, what is that supposed to mean. Sounds more like a catch phrase to excuse the inconsistencies and inaccuracies in the  bible.

That's exactly what it is - a pithy catch phrase to give permission to the believer to stop asking questions, to suppress any curiosity in lieu of a comforting tale of eternal pleasures as a reward to those who don't ask too many questions.

It's complex because it's not one, coherent story. It's a library, a compilation of poems, histories (conflicting, competing, and at times hilariously intertwined), laws, and fan-fic stories about a celestial hero whose biography was placed in a physical location, as was a commonly accepted literary practice. I'm guessing it was not unlike making movies out of popular books. I think about it this way, books invoke imagination but movies allow you to see the characters physically. In the same way, thinking about a celestial priest invoked the imagination, but placing him in Jerusalem made it possible to see where he would have been, such as coming into the city of Jerusalem on a donkey (or donkey and colt, like some Jewish Annie Oakley, depending on which gospel account you believe).

It's so obvious that it's different stories squished together, pretending to be one, unified message. It's just a mess. It's only complex if it *has* to be one, unified message.

The one thing that I am certain of based on my ability to read and comprehend, is that the Bible is incoherent. It is the reverence granted to the Bible that creates the popular idea that the bible contains true wisdom and provides a coherent narrative from front to back. I call it wishful thinking for modern Christians. Too afraid to peel back the curtain and see what stands behind it, so many Christians prefer the narrative that brings the least amount of cognitive dissonance into their lives.

Modern humans are in a unique place, in my opinion. We have a much better understanding of our place in the universe, and we are beginning to grasp the idea that we have so much more to learn. Sadly, religions like Christianity, Judaism, and Islam are truly holding us back. As Richard Dawkins makes clear in his book "The Magic of Reality", it is extremely rewarding, majestic, and humbling to witness nature, even without knowing precisely how it came to be. There is literally no need to add a god in order to apply positive terms to the world we find ourselves in. We each have one extremely unlikely and very limited time at experiencing life, and then it is over. Why live that life in a futile battle within your own mind over one more god that will soon be gone forever?




Offline magicmiles 2.0

  • Graduate
  • ****
  • Posts: 462
  • Darwins +14/-30
Re: Christians arguing amongst themselves.
« Reply #24 on: July 11, 2018, 07:07:14 PM »


Why is the Bible both complex and simple?

Because its a compilation of documents written in different styles, by different people, over different time periods - yet it tells one story.

Offline velkyn

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 18386
  • Darwins +446/-25
  • Gender: Female
  • You're wearing the juice, aren't you?"
Re: Christians arguing amongst themselves.
« Reply #25 on: July 11, 2018, 07:13:47 PM »


Why is the Bible both complex and simple?

Because its a compilation of documents written in different styles, by different people, over different time periods - yet it tells one story.


That is not true.  It is a claim made by some Christians who ignore what their bible says.  We have the old testament, which is Judaism, and then we have a break for thousands of years.  Then stories about a messiah are circulated, trying to find prophecy for a subjugated people to find a leader.  Some words descriptive of this messiah, and legends form around one figure, Joshua ben Joseph, who doesn't fit the prophecies given.  however, like people now, people ignore the details as it is convenient for them.  After many changes, a form of this belief got traction and then promptly split in to numerous sects, all disagreeing on what this god is, what wants and how to placate it. 


One also has to explain why this god didn't immediately send itself/son when it was obvious that its plan for laws failed completely.  How does an omnipotent being fail?
"There is no use in arguing with a man who can multiply anything by the square root of minus 1" - Pirates of Venus, ERB

http://clubschadenfreude.wordpress.com/

Offline magicmiles 2.0

  • Graduate
  • ****
  • Posts: 462
  • Darwins +14/-30
Re: Christians arguing amongst themselves.
« Reply #26 on: July 11, 2018, 07:30:07 PM »
When I read the bible, I see a gradually developing story of creation, rebellion, consequence, a promise and the keeping of a promise. Millions of others see the same thing. If you don't, it doesn't mean it isn't there.

Offline jetson

  • Administrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 9050
  • Darwins +446/-6
  • Gender: Male
  • Meet George Jetson!
    • Jet Blog
Re: Christians arguing amongst themselves.
« Reply #27 on: July 11, 2018, 09:06:30 PM »
When I read the bible, I see a gradually developing story of creation, rebellion, consequence, a promise and the keeping of a promise. Millions of others see the same thing. If you don't, it doesn't mean it isn't there.

You just showed how you are just as right/wrong as anyone else. What you see is a Catholic narrative, do you understand how that is? Do you know how this was put together? Have you read the historical context put together by academics? This is not in dispute from the Catholics that I am aware of.

That by itself does not prove you wrong, but it does not in any way prove you right. You are among a large number of people who "see" this narrative in the way that you described. I'm curious as to whether any of the historical context behind the Bible is important to you? In other words, do you care how it was put together?

Offline magicmiles 2.0

  • Graduate
  • ****
  • Posts: 462
  • Darwins +14/-30
Re: Christians arguing amongst themselves.
« Reply #28 on: July 11, 2018, 10:20:52 PM »
I'm curious as to whether any of the historical context behind the Bible is important to you? In other words, do you care how it was put together?

Definitely, big J. But I sure wish there was a reliable Readers Digest version of the history surrounding it, as you know I am a very lazy Australian.

I had a quick look at this just now:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_canon

Based on the colour coded table at the end, it doesn't appear to me there is actually a whole lot of disagreement between the Christian denominations.