Author Topic: I am willing to learn about planned parent hood and abortion  (Read 482 times)

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Offline John 3 16

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Recently, I heard something like Trump administration offered PPH that if they seize their abortion practices the federal funding will continue to flow (half billion a year if I remember correctly).  Since PPH representative asserts abortion is NOT their major practices, one would assume there is no problem or opposition with this proposition but somehow there was an uproar...
Since I am kinda ignorant about the issue, I am here to learn.
What exactly happened?
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Offline Mr. Blackwell

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Re: I am willing to learn about planned parent hood and abortion
« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2018, 11:29:22 PM »
Since your memory is faulty...no worries, mine is too...it would be helpful if you could back track your own search history and give us a link to an article you may have read or at least point to the source of your information?

We can learn together if you are willing.



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Offline Nick

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Re: I am willing to learn about planned parent hood and abortion
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2018, 08:19:29 AM »
PP offers a host of services to women.  Many services to women who would have no other alternative.  Abortion is legal and a right in this nation.  It is an option for women in many different situations.  If PP were to cut that legal option from its services it would be short changing its clients.  PP would be no different than the religious clinics offering only "forced birth" to women.  Choice is the option in a free nation.  Not Sharia of the Cross.
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Offline John 3 16

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Re: I am willing to learn about planned parent hood and abortion
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2018, 08:28:51 AM »
https://psmag.com/social-justice/trump-administration-to-announce-a-ban-on-federal-funding-for-clinics-that-offer-abortions

PPH claims abortion accounted for just 3 percent.
But they don't want to give it up even at the chance of losing the entire federal funding.  Something doesn't sound right to me. 
So can someone please explain?
It it true PPH is the biggest abortion provider in the country?
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Offline velkyn

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Re: I am willing to learn about planned parent hood and abortion
« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2018, 09:50:50 AM »
https://psmag.com/social-justice/trump-administration-to-announce-a-ban-on-federal-funding-for-clinics-that-offer-abortions

PPH claims abortion accounted for just 3 percent.
But they don't want to give it up even at the chance of losing the entire federal funding.  Something doesn't sound right to me. 
So can someone please explain?
It it true PPH is the biggest abortion provider in the country?

it's because they think women should be able to have their own say in healthcare, and choose whether or not to run the risks of pregnancy or not.   Protecting human rights is important to some people.  Those who are anti-abortion are no more than theocrats in large part.  They want to force their versions of their religion on others, for control.

PP is the largest abortion provider according to several sources:   http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2017/may/15/glenn-grothman/glenn-grothman-says-planned-parenthood-leading-abo/

https://www.npr.org/2011/04/13/135354952/planned-parenthood-makes-abortion-foes-see-red

They are also one of the largest providers of women's healthcare.

now, j316, do you agree that birth control should be available to women or not?   What are your views on abortion so we know what you believe? 

and what do you think of Christians being allowed to lie to women about abortions?  Not just not give out information about the availablility of abortions but to outright lie?   

Trump is holding people hostage as usual.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2018, 09:59:11 AM by velkyn »
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Offline stuffin

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Re: I am willing to learn about planned parent hood and abortion
« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2018, 10:47:37 AM »
Curious, is this just another button pushing ploy.

He's using the race baiting in the other thread, now abortion, Makes me wonder?
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Offline John 3 16

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Re: I am willing to learn about planned parent hood and abortion
« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2018, 10:51:27 AM »
PP is the largest abortion provider according to several sources:
Wonder if they are saying like it is? by admitting their top position in the nation.

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now, j316, do you agree that birth control should be available to women or not?   What are your views on abortion so we know what you believe?
I personally disbelieve in abortion but that is irrelevant to the topic. However, I totally agree with you that religion should be out of politics.
With that being said, let's strictly focus on politic, not my religious belief.

I know for a fact, that PP is trying to re-brand their image as women's health provider so that the federal funding doesn't stop flowing but, I also know that their main business in abortion.  As you know most liberals are for it and conservatives are against it.  Abortion is not religious topic anymore it's political matter.  If they are not receiving millions of federal money each year, who am I to say what to do with their business practices as long as no crimes involved?
But unfortunately, so much of our tax money is flowing to them and as a US citizen and a tax payer, I am concerned about it.
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Offline John 3 16

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Re: I am willing to learn about planned parent hood and abortion
« Reply #7 on: June 29, 2018, 10:54:13 AM »
Curious, is this just another button pushing ploy.

He's using the race baiting in the other thread, now abortion, Makes me wonder?
Don't you agree this place is boring without moi?  :)
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Offline Nick

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Re: I am willing to learn about planned parent hood and abortion
« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2018, 10:54:35 AM »
John , you do realize that none of the federal money making its way to PP is used for abortion...right?  Abortion funds come from private donations, etc.  That is the law.
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

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Offline John 3 16

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Re: I am willing to learn about planned parent hood and abortion
« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2018, 11:11:39 AM »
John , you do realize that none of the federal money making its way to PP is used for abortion...right?  Abortion funds come from private donations, etc.  That is the law.
I didn't know that but that sounds like kinda unbelievable.
Do you have a proof or is that what they are saying? like that 3% lie.
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Offline velkyn

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Re: I am willing to learn about planned parent hood and abortion
« Reply #10 on: June 29, 2018, 11:21:21 AM »
PP is the largest abortion provider according to several sources:
Wonder if they are saying like it is? by admitting their top position in the nation.

do your research.  Are they?  Seems that the happy liberals at NPR have no problem in saying they are the main provider.  It isn't a shame to be the main provider at all, though you seem to wish it was.  It seems that you are doing no more than trying to pretend that some great conspiracy is going on. 

Quote
now, j316, do you agree that birth control should be available to women or not?   What are your views on abortion so we know what you believe?
Quote
I personally disbelieve in abortion but that is irrelevant to the topic. However, I totally agree with you that religion should be out of politics.
With that being said, let's strictly focus on politic, not my religious belief.
No surprise that you run away from actually telling us what you believe.  One more Christian who doesn't want to be held accountable for what they believe and what that results in, including your political beliefs.   

And abortion exists, your disbelief in it notwithstanding.   

Quote
I know for a fact, that PP is trying to re-brand their image as women's health provider so that the federal funding doesn't stop flowing but, I also know that their main business in abortion.  As you know most liberals are for it and conservatives are against it.  Abortion is not religious topic anymore it's political matter.  If they are not receiving millions of federal money each year, who am I to say what to do with their business practices as long as no crimes involved?
But unfortunately, so much of our tax money is flowing to them and as a US citizen and a tax payer, I am concerned about it.

you "know' no such thing.  You are trying to claim it so, as so  many conservative Christians are.  Their main business is not abortion, and in that you are intentionally making false statements.  Being the main abortion provider in the US does not mean the same thing as their business is mainly about abortion.  It's great to see you try to claim that PP is supposedly doing something nefarious by not mentioning that they support abortion, and then say that they admit that they support abortion so much so that they are willing to not get federal funds to keep doing so.   Both can't be true, and you are getting your conspiracy theories mixed up in your need to make false claims.   

As for your concern, funny how you aren't concerned with actually stopping abortions.  Christians like you appear to be, since you won't admit what you believe, often try to stop sex education, try to stop any availability of birth control, etc.  Their actions cause the unwanted pregnancies that they try to force women to carry to term.  They do no care that pregnancy is a dangerous thing, and they do not support actually caring for the child or the mother or the family, consistently voting against such help.  Christians like you appear to be, only want control, not to actually help.   

Conservatives are often against abortion because of their religion.  To try to claim otherwise is just a poor attempt at trying to pretend conservative Christians aren't doin their best to create a theocracy. 

I didn't know that but that sounds like kinda unbelievable.
Do you have a proof or is that what they are saying? like that 3% lie.

hmm, now how do you know that something is a lie, J13?   Or are you just hoping we'll believe you?     And your ignorance is nothing new.  Conservative Christians try to argue against things that they have no clue about, and then get trapped in their nonsense. 
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Offline Nick

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Re: I am willing to learn about planned parent hood and abortion
« Reply #11 on: June 29, 2018, 03:31:17 PM »
John , you do realize that none of the federal money making its way to PP is used for abortion...right?  Abortion funds come from private donations, etc.  That is the law.
I didn't know that but that sounds like kinda unbelievable.
Do you have a proof or is that what they are saying? like that 3% lie.
Well, it is true and has been for many many years.  But that is not good enough for the right. 
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

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Offline Fiji

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Re: I am willing to learn about planned parent hood and abortion
« Reply #12 on: June 29, 2018, 04:20:57 PM »
Do you have a proof or is that what they are saying? like that 3% lie.

Why would the 3% be a lie?

These are the services provided by PP ... https://www.plannedparenthood.org/get-care/our-services
Providing contraceptives, STI screening, pre and post natal care, hormone treatment for transsexuals, general healthcare, ...,  and yes abortions.
How many people need abortions? If the 2.3 million consults per year is accurate, 3% of that is some 70000 ... which, according to the figures of the CDC is somewhere between 10 and 15% of the total number for the US.
That doesn't seem far fetched.

Now, why would PP risk losing its federal funding? Because there are states where PP is the ONLY one providing abortions. As a general rule, in states where there are others providing abortions, PP limits itself to referring people.
Teen girls with no funds would need to travel for hundreds of miles ... several times ... AND cough up some serious cash for an abortion.
If PP stopped providing abortions, the US would go 70 years back in time and backroom abortions would come back.
According to the WHO, 4% of unsafe abortions end in the death of the woman in developed countries ... in other words, if PP stopped providing abortions,  some 2800 American teen girls would die ... per year.
Now, in a country where some 17000 people are gunned down every year ... 2800 might seem like a drop in the bucket, but still ...

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Re: I am willing to learn about planned parent hood and abortion
« Reply #13 on: June 29, 2018, 05:48:55 PM »
When I was in my early 20's I went to PP for my primary care.  I got birth control, cancer screening and a general physical there.  It was a PP physician who discovered that I had an enlarged thyroid and because of that knowledge I was able to get a thyroid problem treated.  I could not afford to go to a private MD at that time.
It doesn't make sense to let go of something you've had for so long.  But it also doesn't make sense to hold on when there's actually nothing there.

Offline John 3 16

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Re: I am willing to learn about planned parent hood and abortion
« Reply #14 on: July 02, 2018, 12:01:03 AM »
If the 2.3 million consults per year is accurate, 3% of that is some 70000 ..
Out the the 2.3 million, I would say 70% birth controls (pills and condoms), 20% pregnancy tests, about 7% general health screening, and 3% which is responsible for 70,000 unborn babies....

If they are not hiding, and nothing is illegal, who am I to say a word?
I still believe it is a political matter though.
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Offline Mr. Blackwell

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Re: I am willing to learn about planned parent hood and abortion
« Reply #15 on: July 02, 2018, 12:12:00 AM »
I still believe it is a political matter though.

It shouldn't be. The only political aspect I see is that PP specifically targets poor minority communities. Considering Margret Sanger's support of the eugenics movement in the U.S. I'm not certain that the motivation to encourage poor minority people to stop reproducing was entirely altruistic.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2018, 12:13:52 AM by Mr. Blackwell »
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Offline velkyn

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Re: I am willing to learn about planned parent hood and abortion
« Reply #16 on: July 02, 2018, 07:16:04 AM »
If the 2.3 million consults per year is accurate, 3% of that is some 70000 ..
Out the the 2.3 million, I would say 70% birth controls (pills and condoms), 20% pregnancy tests, about 7% general health screening, and 3% which is responsible for 70,000 unborn babies....

If they are not hiding, and nothing is illegal, who am I to say a word?
I still believe it is a political matter though.

you try to keep casting aspersions, and you haven't shown at all that you are willing to learn anything. 

and Mr. B, just how is PP "targeting" poor minority communities?   By offering services that they need and are too poor to pay for? 
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Offline Fiji

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Re: I am willing to learn about planned parent hood and abortion
« Reply #17 on: July 02, 2018, 07:33:05 AM »
Out the the 2.3 million, I would say 70% birth controls (pills and condoms), 20% pregnancy tests, about 7% general health screening, and 3% which is responsible for 70,000 unborn babies....

If they are not hiding, and nothing is illegal, who am I to say a word?
I still believe it is a political matter though.

Of course it's a political matter, but then again, pretty much everything is, or can be, a political matter. Hell, bubblegum is a political matter in Singapore!
Essentially most of those 70000 abortions are a waste of money ... it would be much better for those 70K young women and the 70K would-be fathers to have received proper sex education.
Statistics are clear on this ... more sex education = less unwanted pregnancies.
But in the end a woman is the master of her own body and she can't be forced to lend her body out for anything.
So, as a stopgap measure, abortions are necessary.
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Offline albeto

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Re: I am willing to learn about planned parent hood and abortion
« Reply #18 on: July 03, 2018, 06:54:55 PM »
I still believe it is a political matter though.

I agree it's political but that's because politics is how humans organize resources in a way that respects the values generally shared as a state. Medical care is just such a resource we need to consider and constantly re-evaluate as new information comes in and as our ethics evolve.

Perhaps it would help to remember that not everyone shares your moral code, nor is everyone obligated to. It's okay for you to believe that the three week fetus ought to share the same privileges as a 3 year old child, but keep in mind not everyone does. There are, for example, large numbers of people who believe the three week old calf ought to have the same right to life as a 3 year old child. Unless you are a vegetarian or vegan and share that same moral conviction, you no doubt appreciate the law of the land that says you need not abide by those moral codes. And if you are a vegetarian or vegan, I'm sure we can find another example to make the point, if necessary.

Offline Nick

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Re: I am willing to learn about planned parent hood and abortion
« Reply #19 on: July 04, 2018, 09:22:20 AM »
If Roe vs. Wade is gotten rid of it cold affect a lot more than abortion.  It will be a step towards taking a lot of rights away.  Gay marriage rights, adoption rights, birth control rights.  We will be back to policing what people do or don't do in their bedrooms.  1950s mentality.  Move over Ward and June Cleaver.
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Offline stuffin

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Re: I am willing to learn about planned parent hood and abortion
« Reply #20 on: July 04, 2018, 09:46:22 PM »
If Roe vs. Wade is gotten rid of it cold affect a lot more than abortion.  It will be a step towards taking a lot of rights away.  Gay marriage rights, adoption rights, birth control rights.  We will be back to policing what people do or don't do in their bedrooms.  1950s mentality.  Move over Ward and June Cleaver.

I remember that show. One morning at breakfast June said, "Ward you were really hard on the Beaver last night."

For real, it was a really perverted show.

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Offline Mr. Blackwell

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Re: I am willing to learn about planned parent hood and abortion
« Reply #21 on: July 04, 2018, 11:50:38 PM »
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Offline stuffin

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Re: I am willing to learn about planned parent hood and abortion
« Reply #22 on: July 13, 2018, 10:14:16 AM »
If Roe vs. Wade is gotten rid of it cold affect a lot more than abortion.  It will be a step towards taking a lot of rights away.  Gay marriage rights, adoption rights, birth control rights.  We will be back to policing what people do or don't do in their bedrooms.  1950s mentality.  Move over Ward and June Cleaver.

Plus it will stop us from getting the needed fetus blood.


Quote
Hey fellow liberals. I hate to break it to all of you, but the jig is up. Dave "Coach" Daubenmire has got us figured out, and he knows that the whole reason we support abortion is because of how much we love drinking fetus blood in order to get high on "adrenochrome


Quote
"These people are Satanists," Vinnie explains. "What they do is they sacrifice children and they use the children's blood for their drug adrenochrome."


Is THAT where our adrenochrome is coming from? Because I had been under the impression that the way we got our precious adrenochrome was by harvesting the adrenal glands of children molested in pizza shops. Of course, these science experts have many theories.


the satire is rich in this one............ https://www.wonkette.com/coach-dave-daubenmire-knows-how-much-us-liberals-love-drinking-fetus-blood

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Offline Jag

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Re: I am willing to learn about planned parent hood and abortion
« Reply #23 on: July 13, 2018, 10:25:00 AM »
I'm endlessly amazed at the number of uninstitutionalized lunatics roaming freely in the US.
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Offline velkyn

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Re: I am willing to learn about planned parent hood and abortion
« Reply #24 on: July 13, 2018, 11:15:06 AM »
it seems that as soon as j316's claims failed he left.  of course not wanting to learn a thing.
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