Author Topic: Why Would God Have Emotions?  (Read 4307 times)

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Online jetson

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Re: Why Would God Have Emotions?
« Reply #29 on: April 05, 2018, 07:37:36 AM »
It seems strange to me that the Christian God would have emotions. Emotions in the human brain is produced by hormones such as oxytocin, dopamine, and cortisol.

If God is love, anger, and jealousy, is God made of hormones? Is it just a brain with no body?

These emotions help humans survive. Love- to put up with your partner and children, to reproduce. Anger- gives you strength. Jealousy- that ain't good for much, lol.

I must say I'm rather curious as to why any God would have these emotions. It lives outside of space and time. It needs no help surviving because it's the only God.

Having emotions implies God has a biological brain. How is that even possible if God is a spirit like the wind?

The Bible has a different perspective on the meaning of these words.  For example, love means to have active concern for others.  We may associate this with warm feelings because those can grow if nurtured, but love itself, as used in the Bible, isn't a feeling.  Love is a willful determination to work good toward others despite how we may personally feel about them.

We associate anger with a feeling, but it can also be rational indignation caused by an injustice.  God is always shown to have indignation, a rational response.

And I believe anthropomorphism plays some role too.   Humans must relate to God in ways that are meaningful to them.  And God must communicate in ways that can be understood.  It would do us no good if God were to use foreign concepts.

No, the bible doesn't have a different perspective on these words.  It is Christians who invent their own meaning for these words as is convenient, making their bible and god into their own image.  Each thinks he has the "right" version, and each has no more evidence to the next. 

It is a interesting point that this god would have to communicate to humans as a human. It hasn't. If this were the case, then theists would agree, or at least Christians would agree.  They don't. This that points out that each human invents something different, no magical or divine "truth" at all.

No, the words mean what they mean and the meaning has now been quoted by kevin and myself. It is those that want to assign it a different meaning that want to shape the Bible into their own image, and then there are some that may honestly not know how the Bible uses the word.  And there are some that may be deceived by listening to too much atheist propaganda.

And I didn't say he communicated to humans as a  human.  I said he must communicate in a way that makes sense to us, using ideas and concepts that we can grasp.  And there is no magical or divine truth, there is only truth.  And you either love the truth or you don't.  And the truth about the Bible has now been posted.  Now you for your part can harden your heart and come at me with both barrels, and I have faith that you will, or you can accept the truth and reshape your arguments.

jst - can you please let us know what resources you have utilized over time to learn about the books of the Bible, its history, and its origins? For example, how do you know who the authors are for each book, and what do you know about the origins of Old Testament writings and the people it depicts? What do you consider authoritative when it comes to interpretations within the text?

Offline velkyn

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Re: Why Would God Have Emotions?
« Reply #30 on: April 05, 2018, 08:05:11 AM »
No, the words mean what they mean and the meaning has now been quoted by kevin and myself. It is those that want to assign it a different meaning that want to shape the Bible into their own image, and then there are some that may honestly not know how the Bible uses the word.  And there are some that may be deceived by listening to too much atheist propaganda.

And I didn't say he communicated to humans as a  human.  I said he must communicate in a way that makes sense to us, using ideas and concepts that we can grasp.  And there is no magical or divine truth, there is only truth.  And you either love the truth or you don't.  And the truth about the Bible has now been posted.  Now you for your part can harden your heart and come at me with both barrels, and I have faith that you will, or you can accept the truth and reshape your arguments.

and here we are back again with jst insisting that his version of Christianity is the only true one without any evidence at all.   You assign meaning to the words in the bible to fit your version just like a Catholic does, a Presbyterian does, a evangelical Christian does, and funny how none of you agree on what this god of yours wants, all sure that those "others" are damned for getting it wrong.   

It's amusing that you must limit your god and say that it does have to communicate with humans as a human would.  I thought that was implied in what I said but obviously not.   If this god is limited by humans, that's rather curious and certainly goes against the common Christian claims that this god is omnipotent.  And if it made its creations unable to understand the "right" answer, then that is its fault, no one else's.  We either have an inept god or a malevolent one that intentionally causes humans to screw up and be damned for no fault of their own. 

It's no surprise that jst has to claim that he and only he has the truth, and that anyone who dares show otherwise doesn't love the truth, a nice little bearing of false witness against others.  As for hardening of one's heart, well, we know that happens when this god intentionally forces that on an individual per the bible itself.  I'm just waiting for evidence that jst and only jst is right.  We've been waiting for years for this evidence and jst does a great job of making claims and then running away when held accountable for them. 
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Offline jdawg70

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Re: Why Would God Have Emotions?
« Reply #31 on: April 05, 2018, 09:05:46 AM »
The Bible has a different perspective on the meaning of these words.  For example, love means to have active concern for others.  We may associate this with warm feelings because those can grow if nurtured, but love itself, as used in the Bible, isn't a feeling.  Love is a willful determination to work good toward others despite how we may personally feel about them.

We associate anger with a feeling, but it can also be rational indignation caused by an injustice.  God is always shown to have indignation, a rational response.

And I believe anthropomorphism plays some role too.   Humans must relate to God in ways that are meaningful to them.  And God must communicate in ways that can be understood.  It would do us no good if God were to use foreign concepts.

Maybe god should have willfully put in some active work to not use words that have a meaning derived from a different perspective than normal human understanding in a god-sanctioned written work of communication intended to be understood.  That seems either irresponsible or, at the very least, deeply irrational.
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Offline Nick

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Re: Why Would God Have Emotions?
« Reply #32 on: April 05, 2018, 11:26:30 AM »
Why write a book at all?  Back then perhaps 1% knew how to read.  If you are going to create stuff you are responsible to care for it.  Damn lazy God.
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Offline stuffin

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Re: Why Would God Have Emotions?
« Reply #33 on: April 05, 2018, 11:39:44 AM »

And I didn't say he communicated to humans as a  human.  I said he must communicate in a way that makes sense to us, using ideas and concepts that we can grasp. And there is no magical or divine truth, there is only truth.  And you either love the truth or you don't.  And the truth about the Bible has now been posted.  Now you for your part can harden your heart and come at me with both barrels, and I have faith that you will, or you can accept the truth and reshape your arguments.

So the only form of communication I know is how a human communicates. Ideas and concepts come to humans through things like speech, body language, smell, taste, touch, proprioception and the like. So if your god can't or doesn't choose to communicate to humans through human senses, exactly how do we know he is communicating to us?
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Offline kevinagain

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Re: Why Would God Have Emotions?
« Reply #34 on: April 05, 2018, 01:33:04 PM »
the bible wasnt written in english.

greek has several words with different meanings that are translated into english as love.

agape, eros, philia, ludus, pragma, philautia.

the usage in tbe original is precise. its the english  translations tbat are fuzzy.
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Offline Mrjason

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Re: Why Would God Have Emotions?
« Reply #35 on: April 05, 2018, 01:49:00 PM »
the bible wasnt written in english.

greek has several words with different meanings that are translated into english as love.

agape, eros, philia, ludus, pragma, philautia.

the usage in tbe original is precise. its the english  translations tbat are fuzzy.

Isn't that a bit of a contradiction? If the words have different meanings how can they be precise?

Offline Jstwebbrowsing

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Re: Why Would God Have Emotions?
« Reply #36 on: April 05, 2018, 01:53:13 PM »
Is concern not derived from emotion? It is something you feel.

Firstly I am not saying that God does not have feelings.  The Bible describes him a being angry, feeling hurt, jealousy, etc.  Some of this may be anthropomorphism to aid in our understanding or it may not be.

I am just saying things like love, anger, jealousy are not limited only to feelings but can be a very rational response even in the absence of any feelings.  And this is where the Bible places the emphasis.  For example, you can do good toward others even if they don't make you feel all gushy inside.  If you are doing good toward them then you are loving them.  And sometimes doing good toward others can actually go against the grain of our emotions.  So it's not just about feelings.  Feelings can accompany love, but are not a prerequisite.

Quote
God being angry with humans is liketh to a human being angry at an ant. Indignation is still an emotion.

The Bible actually compares us to grasshoppers (Isaiah 40:22).  But yeah, I agree with your perspective about our relative importance and small perspectives in comparison to what a god's would be/is.

His anger is based on his love for us.  And I cannot explain it.  I don't feel we are even worth his time. 

Quote
You did not splain jealousy. Why would a God be jealous?

The Bible largely agrees with your sentiment about jealousy.  It even goes further.  "A calm heart gives life to the body, But jealousy is rottenness to the bones." (Pr 14:30)  Medical science even agrees with this.  It's not literally rottenness to the bones but any sort of distress is harmful to your health whereas a "calm heart" contributes to health.

But there are other ways jealousy can have a positive effect.  Being jealous of your mate is akin to the quote above and can at times even be irrational and misplaced.  Being jealous for your marriage, or deeply protective and concerned about it, is a good thing as long as your don't let it lead you into distress.  We can be jealous for our children, meaning we are protective and concerned about them.  This serves as a protection for them. 

In the same way Jehovah is jealous over his children.  Maybe some people think that God being jealous over people worshipping other gods means he is somehow envious of these other gods.  That is not the case.  False worship leads to death.  It's like poison.  His jealousy is for the saftey of his creation.  It doesn't mean he is filled with irrational emotion.

Quote
You did not splain how a "spirit like the wind" could have a material brain.

I don't believe spirits have material brains.  But I cannot explain how a spirit has thoughts.  I can't even explain what a spirit is.  It's a pretty foreign concept and the Bible's anthropomorphism on the subject only helps a little.

Quote
Are you saying God does not have emotions?  The OP is asking--> Why Would God Have Emotions?

No I am not saying that.  I am just trying to explain how the Bible uses those words.  It's more than just feelings we have inside and for that reason it is suitable, I think, that God would have emotions.

But really the most accurate answer is that God has emotions because God chose to have emotions.  Everything God is has been self-designated.  God becomes whatever he chooses to become just like he told Moses when explaining the meaning of his name, Jehovah (YHWH) (Ex 3:14,15).

Quote
P1- God is the only God

P2- God existed before space-time

C1- God has no use for emotion.

That depends.  God would do what is wisest.  Is being emotionless the wisest thing to be?
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Offline velkyn

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Re: Why Would God Have Emotions?
« Reply #37 on: April 05, 2018, 02:07:38 PM »
the bible wasnt written in english.

greek has several words with different meanings that are translated into english as love.

agape, eros, philia, ludus, pragma, philautia.

the usage in tbe original is precise. its the english  translations tbat are fuzzy.

Isn't that a bit of a contradiction? If the words have different meanings how can they be precise?

translations may be fuzzy.  the believers in the bible believe it can't be fuzzy.  And there is nothing to indicate that the words weren't fuzzy in the original.

always fun to watch a TrueChristian end up chasing their tail in their attempts to redefine words to fit their nonsense

I am just saying things like love, anger, jealousy are not limited only to feelings but can be a very rational response even in the absence of any feelings. [\quote]
 &)
« Last Edit: April 05, 2018, 02:10:49 PM by velkyn »
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Offline kevinagain

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Re: Why Would God Have Emotions?
« Reply #38 on: April 05, 2018, 02:26:33 PM »
the bible wasnt written in english.

greek has several words with different meanings that are translated into english as love.

agape, eros, philia, ludus, pragma, philautia.

the usage in tbe original is precise. its the english  translations tbat are fuzzy.

Isn't that a bit of a contradiction? If the words have different meanings how can they be precise?

its the english use of one word to translate six greek words that causez problems.

geologists have half a dozen precize adjectives for sedimentary stream bed structures that poets call "ripples." the original greek is precise. the english is fuzzy.

hawaiians recognize different kinds of lava, with different nouns for each.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2018, 02:29:31 PM by kevinagain »
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Offline Mrjason

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Re: Why Would God Have Emotions?
« Reply #39 on: April 05, 2018, 02:45:01 PM »
the bible wasnt written in english.

greek has several words with different meanings that are translated into english as love.

agape, eros, philia, ludus, pragma, philautia.

the usage in tbe original is precise. its the english  translations tbat are fuzzy.

Isn't that a bit of a contradiction? If the words have different meanings how can they be precise?

its the english use of one word to translate six greek words that causez problems.

geologists have half a dozen precize adjectives for sedimentary stream bed structures that poets call "ripples." the original greek is precise. the english is fuzzy.

hawaiians recognize different kinds of lava, with different nouns for each.

Then why not write in English?

Offline jdawg70

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Re: Why Would God Have Emotions?
« Reply #40 on: April 05, 2018, 03:56:05 PM »
the original greek is precise.

It should be noted that 'precision' and 'clarity' are not necessarily related.  There are certainly circumstances where precision reduces clarity, depending on what message it is you're trying to deliver.
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."

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Offline kevinagain

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Re: Why Would God Have Emotions?
« Reply #41 on: April 05, 2018, 04:17:30 PM »
the bible wasnt written in english.

greek has several words with different meanings that are translated into english as love.

agape, eros, philia, ludus, pragma, philautia.

the usage in tbe original is precise. its the english  translations tbat are fuzzy.

Isn't that a bit of a contradiction? If the words have different meanings how can they be precise?

its the english use of one word to translate six greek words that causez problems.

geologists have half a dozen precize adjectives for sedimentary stream bed structures that poets call "ripples." the original greek is precise. the english is fuzzy.

hawaiians recognize different kinds of lava, with different nouns for each.

Then why not write in English?

because it was written 2000 years ago. hebrew, aramaic, and koine greek. the modern languages dont always have words with exactly corresponding meanings.

added:

all tbis is why commentaries have been written. sometimes to explain subtlties lost in the translations, sometimes to promote a particular theology. protestant dspensationalism was first popularized by the 19th century schofield bible, published with a built-in commentary.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2018, 06:16:39 PM by kevinagain »
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Offline Mrjason

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Re: Why Would God Have Emotions?
« Reply #42 on: April 06, 2018, 03:32:38 AM »

because it was written 2000 years ago. hebrew, aramaic, and koine greek. the modern languages dont always have words with exactly corresponding meanings.

what does being written 2000 years ago have to do with anything?

added:

all tbis is why commentaries have been written. sometimes to explain subtlties lost in the translations, sometimes to promote a particular theology. protestant dspensationalism was first popularized by the 19th century schofield bible, published with a built-in commentary.

So the commentaries have an agenda?

Offline junebug72

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Re: Why Would God Have Emotions?
« Reply #43 on: April 06, 2018, 06:25:33 AM »

Is concern not derived from emotion? It is something you feel.
Quote from: JST
Firstly I am not saying that God does not have feelings.  The Bible describes him as being angry, feeling hurt, jealousy, etc.  Some of this may be anthropomorphism to aid in our understanding or it may not be.

That is like you being hurt emotionally by a grasshopper switching yards or mating with the wrong grasshopper.

Quote from: JST
I am just saying things like love, anger, jealousy are not limited only to feelings but can be a very rational response even in the absence of any feelings.  And this is where the Bible places the emphasis.  For example, you can do good toward others even if they don't make you feel all gushy inside.  If you are doing good toward them then you are loving them.  And sometimes doing good toward others can actually go against the grain of our emotions.  So it's not just about feelings.  Feelings can accompany love, but are not a prerequisite.

JST,  helping people makes me happy and gives me a sense of self-worth. Do you think God is happy? Maybe if God applied the same standard to himself, he could be happy. I mean helping others, especially children.

Like imagine being strapped to a chair not able to help your child while it suffers. I believe that would cause a lot of emotional distress to any father. The difference being God is not strapped down. 

There is a term in psychology, emotional intelligence. It defines the human's capability of using their knowledge of emotions to solve problems. If God had this emotional intelligence he wouldn't be mad and sad. There is also two ways to problem solve, emotional based and problem solving based. God seems to use emotional based. This makes sense when you consider that the authors of the bible most likely were not using their prefrontal cortex but rather the amygdala, the region of the brain that produces emotion. The bible to me, is nothing more than emotional manipulation. It does not stimulate the rational part of the brain; it stimulates the amygdala producing emotions like shame and pity. When read with a rational mind the contradictions cannot be missed.

Quote
God being angry with humans is liketh to a human being angry at an ant. Indignation is still an emotion.

Quote from: JST

The Bible actually compares us to grasshoppers (Isaiah 40:22).  But yeah, I agree with your perspective about our relative importance and small perspectives in comparison to what a god's would be/is.

His anger is based on his love for us.  And I cannot explain it.  I don't feel we are even worth his time. 

I like the grasshopper metaphor.

JST, saying you think we are not worth his time is like saying you do not think he created a good thing. If humans were a good thing you would not feel that way and neither would God.

I do appreciate the humility of saying you don't know. ;)

Quote
You did not splain jealousy. Why would a God be jealous?

Quote from: JST
The Bible largely agrees with your sentiment about jealousy.  It even goes further.  "A calm heart gives life to the body, But jealousy is rottenness to the bones." (Pr 14:30)  Medical science even agrees with this.  It's not literally rottenness to the bones but any sort of distress is harmful to your health whereas a "calm heart" contributes to health.

But there are other ways jealousy can have a positive effect.  Being jealous of your mate is akin to the quote above and can at times even be irrational and misplaced.  Being jealous for your marriage, or deeply protective and concerned about it, is a good thing as long as your don't let it lead you into distress.  We can be jealous for our children, meaning we are protective and concerned about them.  This serves as a protection for them. 


I like the first paragraph.

I disagree with the second. I believe love better explains why you protect your children/family.  Insecurity explains jealousy.

Quote from: JST

In the same way Jehovah is jealous over his children.  Maybe some people think that God being jealous over people worshipping other gods means he is somehow envious of these other gods.  That is not the case.  False worship leads to death.  It's like poison.  His jealousy is for the saftey of his creation.  It doesn't mean he is filled with irrational emotion.


I will reiterate my previous understanding of protective behavior stems from love and jealousy stems from insecurity.

Quote
You did not splain how a "spirit like the wind" could have a material brain.
Quote from: JST

I don't believe spirits have material brains.  But I cannot explain how a spirit has thoughts.  I can't even explain what a spirit is.  It's a pretty foreign concept and the Bible's anthropomorphism on the subject only helps a little.


That's a humble approach. Thanks.

Quote
Are you saying God does not have emotions?  The OP is asking--> Why Would God Have Emotions?

Quote from: JST

No I am not saying that.  I am just trying to explain how the Bible uses those words.  It's more than just feelings we have inside and for that reason it is suitable, I think, that God would have emotions.

But really the most accurate answer is that God has emotions because God chose to have emotions.  Everything God is has been self-designated.  God becomes whatever he chooses to become just like he told Moses when explaining the meaning of his name, Jehovah (YHWH) (Ex 3:14,15).


I do not understand this. Did God create himself?

Quote
P1- God is the only God

P2- God existed before space-time

C1- God has no use for emotion.

Quote from: JST

That depends.  God would do what is wisest.  Is being emotionless the wisest thing to be?

The reality we occupy implies an emotionless God. JST what would you do about child abuse, child hunger, childhood cancer, etc etc if you were all-powerful and love them babies?
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Offline kevinagain

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Re: Why Would God Have Emotions?
« Reply #44 on: April 06, 2018, 06:38:11 AM »
what does being written 2000 years ago have to do with anything?

you asked, why not write in english.

the answer to your question is tbat nobody wrote in english 2000 years ago. you uderstand that, right? its too late to change the languages the bible was written in.

Quote
So the commentaries have an agenda?

always.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2018, 06:40:28 AM by kevinagain »
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Offline Mrjason

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Re: Why Would God Have Emotions?
« Reply #45 on: April 06, 2018, 07:04:00 AM »
what does being written 2000 years ago have to do with anything?

you asked, why not write in english.

the answer to your question is tbat nobody wrote in english 2000 years ago. you uderstand that, right? its too late to change the languages the bible was written in.

Ah yeah I get it.  You are saying that the people who wrote the bible did so using the knowledge available to them and that the bible is a product of the times that it was written in.

So the commentaries have an agenda?

always.

And the agenda is reinterpreting the unerring words of god?

Offline kevinagain

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Re: Why Would God Have Emotions?
« Reply #46 on: April 06, 2018, 08:46:44 AM »

Ah yeah I get it.  You are saying that the people who wrote the bible did so using the knowledge available to them and that the bible is a product of the times that it was written in.

not quite. im saying that tbe bible was not written in english, so the meanings of the original writers is not necessarily captured correctly in an english translation.

Quote
And the agenda is reinterpreting the unerring words of god?

for some, perhaps. not everybody is an inerrantist. thats common among protestants, less so elsewhere.

for others, its supporting one particular theology over another.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2018, 08:50:36 AM by kevinagain »
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Re: Why Would God Have Emotions?
« Reply #47 on: April 06, 2018, 09:02:52 AM »
One of the more obvious facts about the Old Testament is that intentional or not, it was not written to address humanity forever. Human cultural and social evolution, as well as the evolution of language is at the heart of why the Old Testament does not hold up very far beyond its original intended audience. When a "timeless" god is attached, it takes on a fervor from some believers that must be maintained and connected to all of humanity in perpetuity. And of course, future cultures and societies are left holding the bag of interpretations to which each sect holds the truth, and all others are wrong. This is a part of the never-ending modern fight over passages and pieces of OT writings, and the cherry picking from some people that have a profound effect on modern societies.

The last course in my degree plan that I took was called "Introduction to the Old Testament". Indeed, it was not a deep dive into each book, but it gave an excellent academic summary of what historians have pieced together on the people of the time, their cultures, and their struggles to survive under the precept of a god. It was not a course of religious ideologies and their claims. I really appreciated that course for confirming that it is perfectly acceptable to understand the Old Testament for something other than the words, commands, or ideas of a god that has no basis in reality outside of human desires to believe it.


Offline Jstwebbrowsing

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Re: Why Would God Have Emotions?
« Reply #48 on: April 06, 2018, 09:19:23 AM »
jst - can you please let us know what resources you have utilized over time to learn about the books of the Bible, its history, and its origins? For example, how do you know who the authors are for each book, and what do you know about the origins of Old Testament writings and the people it depicts? What do you consider authoritative when it comes to interpretations within the text?

I don't have a list of things I've read or watched over the years.  I have studied the Bible's history, authorship and such.  Like everything else having to do with the Bible, there are a lot of disagreements particularly about authorship.  Today I have largely put those things behind me and focus on content.  If the Bible can really help reveal God then the proof is in the pudding and everything else is just filler that can be worked out as time goes on.

As far as the contents are concerned, today I largely use the Watchtower Online Library (https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/h/r1/lp-e) as my primary source.  Usually that is sufficient for my needs.  I also make heavy use of Biblehub.com and it's interlinear translation as well as it's commentaries.

Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Isaiah 43:10

Offline Jstwebbrowsing

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Re: Why Would God Have Emotions?
« Reply #49 on: April 06, 2018, 09:27:02 AM »
No, the words mean what they mean and the meaning has now been quoted by kevin and myself. It is those that want to assign it a different meaning that want to shape the Bible into their own image, and then there are some that may honestly not know how the Bible uses the word.  And there are some that may be deceived by listening to too much atheist propaganda.

And I didn't say he communicated to humans as a  human.  I said he must communicate in a way that makes sense to us, using ideas and concepts that we can grasp.  And there is no magical or divine truth, there is only truth.  And you either love the truth or you don't.  And the truth about the Bible has now been posted.  Now you for your part can harden your heart and come at me with both barrels, and I have faith that you will, or you can accept the truth and reshape your arguments.

and here we are back again with jst insisting that his version of Christianity is the only true one without any evidence at all.   You assign meaning to the words in the bible to fit your version just like a Catholic does, a Presbyterian does, a evangelical Christian does, and funny how none of you agree on what this god of yours wants, all sure that those "others" are damned for getting it wrong.   

It's amusing that you must limit your god and say that it does have to communicate with humans as a human would.  I thought that was implied in what I said but obviously not.   If this god is limited by humans, that's rather curious and certainly goes against the common Christian claims that this god is omnipotent.  And if it made its creations unable to understand the "right" answer, then that is its fault, no one else's.  We either have an inept god or a malevolent one that intentionally causes humans to screw up and be damned for no fault of their own. 

It's no surprise that jst has to claim that he and only he has the truth, and that anyone who dares show otherwise doesn't love the truth, a nice little bearing of false witness against others.  As for hardening of one's heart, well, we know that happens when this god intentionally forces that on an individual per the bible itself.  I'm just waiting for evidence that jst and only jst is right.  We've been waiting for years for this evidence and jst does a great job of making claims and then running away when held accountable for them.

I haven't made any claims about religion.  I simply referred to a dictionary of NT words.  And I wasn't even the first one to do so.  It seems to me that you are the one insisting only your version is right.  I have provided the dictionary definition.  What have you provided?


Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Isaiah 43:10

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Re: Why Would God Have Emotions?
« Reply #50 on: April 06, 2018, 09:32:29 AM »
jst - can you please let us know what resources you have utilized over time to learn about the books of the Bible, its history, and its origins? For example, how do you know who the authors are for each book, and what do you know about the origins of Old Testament writings and the people it depicts? What do you consider authoritative when it comes to interpretations within the text?

I don't have a list of things I've read or watched over the years.  I have studied the Bible's history, authorship and such.  Like everything else having to do with the Bible, there are a lot of disagreements particularly about authorship.  Today I have largely put those things behind me and focus on content.  If the Bible can really help reveal God then the proof is in the pudding and everything else is just filler that can be worked out as time goes on.

As far as the contents are concerned, today I largely use the Watchtower Online Library (https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/h/r1/lp-e) as my primary source.  Usually that is sufficient for my needs.  I also make heavy use of Biblehub.com and it's interlinear translation as well as it's commentaries.

Thank you.

Offline Jstwebbrowsing

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Re: Why Would God Have Emotions?
« Reply #51 on: April 06, 2018, 09:39:26 AM »
Maybe god should have willfully put in some active work to not use words that have a meaning derived from a different perspective than normal human understanding in a god-sanctioned written work of communication intended to be understood.  That seems either irresponsible or, at the very least, deeply irrational.

It has nothing to do with "normal human understanding".  The Greeks understood it just fine.  Millions of people today understand it just fine.  I am not that smart and I understand it.  All it takes is a willingness to learn.
Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Isaiah 43:10

Offline Jstwebbrowsing

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Re: Why Would God Have Emotions?
« Reply #52 on: April 06, 2018, 09:45:47 AM »

because it was written 2000 years ago. hebrew, aramaic, and koine greek. the modern languages dont always have words with exactly corresponding meanings.

what does being written 2000 years ago have to do with anything?

added:

all tbis is why commentaries have been written. sometimes to explain subtlties lost in the translations, sometimes to promote a particular theology. protestant dspensationalism was first popularized by the 19th century schofield bible, published with a built-in commentary.

So the commentaries have an agenda?

The Greek use of the words are not foreign concepts in English.  We just have to add adjectives.  The Greeks had different words for different kinds of love.  We only have one, but the addition of adjectives can clarify.  For example, they used different words for brotherly love, romantic love, and agape (godly love).  This type of love was further explained by Thomas Aquinas as "to will the good of another." There are different types of love in the Greek.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_words_for_love
Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Isaiah 43:10

Offline Mrjason

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Re: Why Would God Have Emotions?
« Reply #53 on: April 06, 2018, 09:49:06 AM »

Ah yeah I get it.  You are saying that the people who wrote the bible did so using the knowledge available to them and that the bible is a product of the times that it was written in.

not quite. im saying that tbe bible was not written in english, so the meanings of the original writers is not necessarily captured correctly in an english translation.

So we don't really know what the original authors were trying to say?

And the agenda is reinterpreting the unerring words of god?

for some, perhaps. not everybody is an inerrantist. thats common among protestants, less so elsewhere.

for others, its supporting one particular theology over another.

This being the case the commentaries are surely not much use in interpreting the subtleties of lost translations as they are not objective. 

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Re: Why Would God Have Emotions?
« Reply #54 on: April 06, 2018, 09:52:59 AM »
It has nothing to do with "normal human understanding".  The Greeks understood it just fine.  Millions of people today understand it just fine.  I am not that smart and I understand it.  All it takes is a willingness to learn.

and that is what each Christian tells themselves, that everyone should come to the same conclusions they do when they invented their religion in their image and that only the "willing" will come to the same conclusions they do.  Of course, not a single one of them can show that they are right.

jst, it's great to see you falsely claim that you have made "no claims about religion".  You have when you insist that only your version and your understanding are the right ones.   Right here
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It is those that want to assign it a different meaning that want to shape the Bible into their own image, and then there are some that may honestly not know how the Bible uses the word.
  It's always bemusing when Christian like yourself tries to make a false claim in a written medium where you can be quoted as evidence of your actions. 

Still waiting for you to provide evidence for your claims that no one but you understands the bible correctly. 

"There is no use in arguing with a man who can multiply anything by the square root of minus 1" - Pirates of Venus, ERB

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Offline Jstwebbrowsing

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Re: Why Would God Have Emotions?
« Reply #55 on: April 06, 2018, 10:12:08 AM »
One of the more obvious facts about the Old Testament is that intentional or not, it was not written to address humanity forever.

This is very true.  It was not even written to humanity in general.  It was written to the ancient Jews.  It's written to a specific people, at a specific time, for a specific purpose.  While it is still valuable as a learning aid providing history and prophecy, it is limited in scope.

However, the teaching of Christ, which is what we are to follow today, do not have the same limitations.  Where the OT provides long lists of laws that may not be applicable in all times and places, the NT will never become obsolete and can be applied across time and culture because it is not fillied with culture specific laws. 

Christ came to teach the timeless principles upon which the Law was based.  In the OT we read "you shall not murder", "you shall not steal", etc.  In the NT we read "love your neighbor as yourself".  That is the principle behind these laws and will never become obsolete.  If you love your neighbor you will not steal from them, murder them, etc.  But it also has a wider application.

Let's take second hand cigarette smoke.  The Bible never specifically mentions it.  However, if we love our neighbor as ourself, then we don't need laws from God about cigarettes to know what we ought to do.  If we love them then we won't be blowing stuff in their face that can kill them.  If we love ourselves we won't be intentionally poisoning our bodies with cigarette smoke.
Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Isaiah 43:10

Offline kevinagain

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Re: Why Would God Have Emotions?
« Reply #56 on: April 06, 2018, 10:35:19 AM »
So we don't really know what the original authors were trying to say?

if you learn the original languages, its not a problem. greek and hebrew used to be taught to every british child in public school. today its easy enough to use a greek or hebrew dictionary to work through the harder parts. theyre free on line.

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This being the case the commentaries are surely not much use in interpreting the subtleties of lost translations as they are not objective.

thats why people are always writing new ones that they think are better.
don't make excuses for nasty people. you don't put a flower in an asshole and call it a vase.

Offline Jstwebbrowsing

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Re: Why Would God Have Emotions?
« Reply #57 on: April 06, 2018, 11:36:56 AM »

That is like you being hurt emotionally by a grasshopper switching yards or mating with the wrong grasshopper.

It would not matter unless your cared for the grasshoppers.  The things God wants us to do is for our own protection.  But it's only a protection if we follow.  Worshiping another god or disobeying God may seem trivial but what's at stake?

If going to another yard means the grasshoppers will be run over by a lawn mower then switching yards would be foolish.  If mating with the wrong grasshopper means jealousy, pain, family breakdown, unnecessary abortions, abandoned children then it is not a wise thing to do.

Imagine if your have a child that you love that goes to a neighbor to be raised by them.  The neighbor teaches them all sorts of harmful things.  That is what false religion does.  Hence the command to have no other gods.  It's because of the deplorable things taught and practiced by false religion.  To take it to an extreme consider ISIS.  Were they to follow the teachings of Christ they would not be terrorists.  The same is true about some Christians.  If they had followed Christ's instructions they would have so much blood under their skirts.  "When your country and mine shall get together on the teachings laid down by Christ in this Sermon on the Mount, we shall have solved the problems not only of our countries but those of the whole world.” (Ghandi)

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JST,  helping people makes me happy and gives me a sense of self-worth. Do you think God is happy? Maybe if God applied the same standard to himself, he could be happy. I mean helping others, especially children.

Like imagine being strapped to a chair not able to help your child while it suffers. I believe that would cause a lot of emotional distress to any father. The difference being God is not strapped down. 

There is a term in psychology, emotional intelligence. It defines the human's capability of using their knowledge of emotions to solve problems. If God had this emotional intelligence he wouldn't be mad and sad. There is also two ways to problem solve, emotional based and problem solving based. God seems to use emotional based. This makes sense when you consider that the authors of the bible most likely were not using their prefrontal cortex but rather the amygdala, the region of the brain that produces emotion. The bible to me, is nothing more than emotional manipulation. It does not stimulate the rational part of the brain; it stimulates the amygdala producing emotions like shame and pity. When read with a rational mind the contradictions cannot be missed.

So then have you found Christ's words to be true?  "There is more happiness in giving than there is in receiving."

In Christ, we see how God wants us to behave.....today.  I don't see any emotional manipulation but rather very logical and rational principles.  Take for example the sermon on the mount.  If enough people were to conduct themselves with those things being a priority, we would have a very peaceful society.

And these teachings come from God.  They are the first layer of protection from God.  Just like obeying loving parents is a protection to a child so too obeying the teachings of Christ is a protection for obedient Christians. 

"For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, haughty, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, disloyal, having no natural affection, not open to any agreement, slanderers, without self-control, fierce, without love of goodness,  betrayers, headstrong, puffed up with pride, lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God, having an appearance of godliness but proving false to its power; and from these turn away. From among these arise men who slyly work their way into households and captivate weak women loaded down with sins, led by various desires, always learning and yet never able to come to an accurate knowledge of truth." (2 Tim 3:2-7)

These things are all condemned in the Bible.  Likewise all these things are detrimental to human society.  God has not provided instructions simply so he can be the boss, but rather so we can have success.  Problems arise when people disregard these things.  However, observing his commands is a protection.

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JST, saying you think we are not worth his time is like saying you do not think he created a good thing. If humans were a good thing you would not feel that way and neither would God.

That's a very good point.  I never thought of it like that.  But my thoughts stand in contrast to God's.  While I don't show much concern for grasshoppers, God does have concern for humans.  He will not shield us from the consequences of our actions, and this accounts for most human suffering, but we should learn from mistakes.  In the meantime he has provided us with guidance so we don't have to figure everything out through trial and error.

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I like the first paragraph.

I disagree with the second. I believe love better explains why you protect your children/family.  Insecurity explains jealousy.

Look at the dictionary definition:

"feeling or showing suspicion of someone's unfaithfulness in a relationship"

When we refer to jealousy this is usually what we mean or something very similar and it can be rooted in insecurity.  But that is not the only definition.

"fiercely protective or vigilant of one's rights or possessions"

This is similar to what I was talking about with being jealous over your child.  It means you are "fiercely protective".  It is rooted in love because love is an active concern for the welfare of another.  You love your child therefore you are fiercely protective (jealous).  There is nothing wrong with that as long as it's balanced with love of God and love of neighbor.  For example, if your child becomes addicted to drugs the right thing to do isn't to go shoot his drug dealer.  We should keep our jealousy within acceptable boundaries.  It's like the Bible's instruction on anger, "Be wrathful, but do not sin".  Jehovah is a jealous (fiercely protective) God.

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I do not understand this. Did God create himself?

No, that's not what I'm saying.  God did not make himself what he is but who he is.  He told Moses "I will become what I will become".  That is roughly the meaning of his name.  In Isaiah it's put this way.  "I say, 'My purpose will stand, and I will do all that I please.'" (Is 46:10)

If it pleases him to have emotions then he will have emotions.  If it pleases him to not have emotions then he won't have emotions.

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The reality we occupy implies an emotionless God. JST what would you do about child abuse, child hunger, childhood cancer, etc etc if you were all-powerful and love them babies?

I probably would have a lot of hurt and anger because of all the wayward children and I would find the best solution for bringing it to an end permanently.

I believe that is what God has been doing.  This is the purpose of his kingdom.  "With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his people. And God himself will be with them. 4 And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.” (Rev 21:3,4)

"Let your kingdom come, let your will take place in heaven also upon earth".

The end of human suffering will come when his will takes place on earth.  This will be accomplished by his kingdom.  The same kingdom the Jews hoped for and the same kingdom Christ taught about.


 
« Last Edit: April 06, 2018, 11:48:26 AM by Jstwebbrowsing »
Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Isaiah 43:10