Author Topic: Should Governments regulate fraudulent religions?  (Read 842 times)

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Offline Greatest I am

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Should Governments regulate fraudulent religions?
« on: March 21, 2018, 02:23:49 PM »
Should Governments regulate fraudulent religions?

https://www.google.ca/search?source=hp&ei=wRyUWquFHcm4tQXV74XQBw&q=fraud+laws&oq=fraud+laws&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0l10.1003.11584.0.15863.10.10.0.0.0.0.114.1040.3j7.10.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..0.10.1037...0i131k1.0.nCgTyqsYAOA

Fraud is a broad term that refers to a variety of offenses involving dishonesty or "fraudulent acts". In essence, fraud is the intentional deception of a person or entity by another made for monetary or personal gain. Fraud offenses always include some sort of false statement, misrepresentation, or deceitful conduct.

Most governments and countries have fraud laws of some kinds. They generally interfere with religious fraudsters only when physical harm is being done to our gullible citizens yet ignore the monetary theft that the fraudsters fleece from their victims. Prosperity ministries are the most flagrant of these immoral religions, but all religions based on demonstrable lies would be included in this question.

Our governments are quite good at acting against obvious fraudsters yet seem reluctant to protect our more gullible citizens when it comes down to religions.

Religions, to me, get a free pass to lie and steal all they can from victims, especially the older citizens even when governments know about the fraud.

I begin to see the inaction of governments on these religious fraudsters as a dereliction of duty.

Do you?

Regards
DL

Offline One Above All

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Re: Should Governments regulate fraudulent religions?
« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2018, 03:54:48 PM »
There is no way to differentiate between sincerely held beliefs, delusions, and fraudulent religions. That alone should tell you all you need to know about why this is a very bad idea.
My names are many, yet I am One.
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Religions need books because they don't have gods.

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Offline Greatest I am

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Re: Should Governments regulate fraudulent religions?
« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2018, 04:07:48 PM »
There is no way to differentiate between sincerely held beliefs, delusions, and fraudulent religions. That alone should tell you all you need to know about why this is a very bad idea.

A judge does not care about sincerely held beliefs, delusions or speculative nonsense. They want facts and only facts.

Fact is, they know there are many fraudsters out there and they would likely let the spirit of the law guide them and not the letter of the law, although I think the letter of the law would be satisfied.

That or we will have to continue with flagrant and open fraud and to hell with the victims.

Regards
DL

Offline jetson

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Re: Should Governments regulate fraudulent religions?
« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2018, 04:30:36 PM »
I'm kinda with One on this. Where is the line between fraudulent religions and real religions? What is the criteria? Does any law on the books today make a clear distinction? And we have religious judges all over the system, wouldn't they be severely biased?

Offline Greatest I am

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Re: Should Governments regulate fraudulent religions?
« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2018, 05:24:36 PM »
I'm kinda with One on this. Where is the line between fraudulent religions and real religions? What is the criteria? Does any law on the books today make a clear distinction? And we have religious judges all over the system, wouldn't they be severely biased?

I gave One his answer.

The criteria for fraud is in the O.P. and as to judges, if you do not trust your judges to be fair and impartial with the facts put in front of them then I guess your country and mine will just have to live with flagrant and open fraud.

That would show though that our more intelligent and less gullible citizens do not give a damn for their less so friends and neighbors.

Right?

Regards
DL 

Offline stuffin

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Re: Should Governments regulate fraudulent religions?
« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2018, 06:39:39 PM »
All religions meet a fraudulent threshold. They take money from thier rubes and give nothing of measurable value in return.
Mankind is not likely to salvage civilization unless he can evolve a system of good and evil which is independent of heaven and hell.

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When you believe in things you don't understand
Then you suffer
Superstition ain't the way

Offline magicmiles 2.0

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Re: Should Governments regulate fraudulent religions?
« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2018, 07:04:16 PM »
They take money from thier rubes and give nothing of measurable value in return.

Do you mean they give nothing of measurable value to an individual? Or give nothing of measurable value to society?
It's good to know the door can still be open wide.

Offline jetson

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Re: Should Governments regulate fraudulent religions?
« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2018, 10:12:54 PM »
I'm kinda with One on this. Where is the line between fraudulent religions and real religions? What is the criteria? Does any law on the books today make a clear distinction? And we have religious judges all over the system, wouldn't they be severely biased?

I gave One his answer.

The criteria for fraud is in the O.P. and as to judges, if you do not trust your judges to be fair and impartial with the facts put in front of them then I guess your country and mine will just have to live with flagrant and open fraud.

That would show though that our more intelligent and less gullible citizens do not give a damn for their less so friends and neighbors.

Right?

Regards
DL

I don't think our legal system is up to the task of taking on religious claims and potential fraud. From a legal perspective, I think any religion that compels tithing to participate using supernatural claims, is committing fraud. We have enough fraud in the real-world! Can you think of an example of a religion that is not fraudulent, at least in its supernatural claims?

Offline magicmiles 2.0

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Re: Should Governments regulate fraudulent religions?
« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2018, 10:36:53 PM »
Calling a spade a spade mode. The OP is probably the stupidest in the history of the forum.

Churches are made up of individuals who have a common belief in a deity. There are of course many variations on that belief, resulting in different denominations[1], but essentially that is what churches are. Donations/tithes are given when an individual shares the belief.

Where is the fraud?
 1. Not being a fervent atheist, I don't know the exact amount
It's good to know the door can still be open wide.

Offline One Above All

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Re: Should Governments regulate fraudulent religions?
« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2018, 02:37:47 AM »
There is no way to differentiate between sincerely held beliefs, delusions, and fraudulent religions. That alone should tell you all you need to know about why this is a very bad idea.

A judge does not care about sincerely held beliefs, delusions or speculative nonsense. They want facts and only facts.

Fact is, they know there are many fraudsters out there and they would likely let the spirit of the law guide them and not the letter of the law, although I think the letter of the law would be satisfied.

That or we will have to continue with flagrant and open fraud and to hell with the victims.

Regards
DL

The judges do not want facts. If they did, they'd classify all religions that demand time, money, or anything else from their followers as equally fraudulent.
My names are many, yet I am One.
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Religions need books because they don't have gods.

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Re: Should Governments regulate fraudulent religions?
« Reply #10 on: March 22, 2018, 03:44:13 AM »
Where is the fraud?

Is Scientology a fraud?
When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be bleedn obvious.

Offline Greatest I am

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Re: Should Governments regulate fraudulent religions?
« Reply #11 on: March 22, 2018, 07:48:01 AM »
All religions meet a fraudulent threshold. They take money from thier rubes and give nothing of measurable value in return.

While a pride-less America watches. That is the problem.

Americans have forgotten their morals enough to know when they should be ashamed of themselves.

Note a prime example. --- Sounds like --- rump.

Regards
DL


Offline Greatest I am

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Re: Should Governments regulate fraudulent religions?
« Reply #12 on: March 22, 2018, 07:53:10 AM »
I'm kinda with One on this. Where is the line between fraudulent religions and real religions? What is the criteria? Does any law on the books today make a clear distinction? And we have religious judges all over the system, wouldn't they be severely biased?

I gave One his answer.

The criteria for fraud is in the O.P. and as to judges, if you do not trust your judges to be fair and impartial with the facts put in front of them then I guess your country and mine will just have to live with flagrant and open fraud.

That would show though that our more intelligent and less gullible citizens do not give a damn for their less so friends and neighbors.

Right?

Regards
DL

I don't think our legal system is up to the task of taking on religious claims and potential fraud. From a legal perspective, I think any religion that compels tithing to participate using supernatural claims, is committing fraud. We have enough fraud in the real-world! Can you think of an example of a religion that is not fraudulent, at least in its supernatural claims?

If the legal system is as defective as you say, I guess the flagrant and open fraud we live with will just continue unabated and we will just sit back and watch our friends and families be suckered by the lying fraudsters.

I favor the religions that push knowledge and wisdom and not some imaginary guy in the sky.

IE. Gnostic Christianity, Karaite Jews and Buddhists. All three put man above the Gods all religions create.

Regards
DL


Offline Greatest I am

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Re: Should Governments regulate fraudulent religions?
« Reply #13 on: March 22, 2018, 07:54:55 AM »
Calling a spade a spade mode. The OP is probably the stupidest in the history of the forum.

Churches are made up of individuals who have a common belief in a deity. There are of course many variations on that belief, resulting in different denominations[1], but essentially that is what churches are. Donations/tithes are given when an individual shares the belief.

Where is the fraud?
 1. Not being a fervent atheist, I don't know the exact amount

You call me stupid while not seeing what is in front of your face.

Regards
DL

Offline Greatest I am

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Re: Should Governments regulate fraudulent religions?
« Reply #14 on: March 22, 2018, 07:56:41 AM »
There is no way to differentiate between sincerely held beliefs, delusions, and fraudulent religions. That alone should tell you all you need to know about why this is a very bad idea.

A judge does not care about sincerely held beliefs, delusions or speculative nonsense. They want facts and only facts.

Fact is, they know there are many fraudsters out there and they would likely let the spirit of the law guide them and not the letter of the law, although I think the letter of the law would be satisfied.

That or we will have to continue with flagrant and open fraud and to hell with the victims.

Regards
DL

The judges do not want facts. If they did, they'd classify all religions that demand time, money, or anything else from their followers as equally fraudulent.

They might just do that if the fraud squads had the balls and moral fortitude to put cases before the courts.

Regards
DL

Offline velkyn

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Re: Should Governments regulate fraudulent religions?
« Reply #15 on: March 22, 2018, 09:48:29 AM »
Calling a spade a spade mode. The OP is probably the stupidest in the history of the forum.

Churches are made up of individuals who have a common belief in a deity. There are of course many variations on that belief, resulting in different denominations[1], but essentially that is what churches are. Donations/tithes are given when an individual shares the belief.

Where is the fraud?
 1. Not being a fervent atheist, I don't know the exact amount

making false claims in order to convince people that they need to give money.   One doesn't have to be a "fervent atheist" (whatever that is) to find out facts.  There many thousands of denominations of Christianity, Islam, Judaism, and it's rather amusing since it is a great way to see that religious claims are nothing but personal opinions with no support in reality.  Each sect claims it is the right one and has no more evidence than the next, though most are quite happy to claim that those "others" are at best wrong and at worst damned and deserving of death. 

"There is no use in arguing with a man who can multiply anything by the square root of minus 1" - Pirates of Venus, ERB

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Offline stuffin

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Re: Should Governments regulate fraudulent religions?
« Reply #16 on: March 22, 2018, 02:11:02 PM »
They take money from thier rubes and give nothing of measurable value in return.

Do you mean they give nothing of measurable value to an individual? Or give nothing of measurable value to society?

Individual, but their returns to society are minimal and usually come with the caveat of the religious trap.
Mankind is not likely to salvage civilization unless he can evolve a system of good and evil which is independent of heaven and hell.

George Orwell




When you believe in things you don't understand
Then you suffer
Superstition ain't the way

Offline Fiji

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Re: Should Governments regulate fraudulent religions?
« Reply #17 on: March 22, 2018, 03:10:34 PM »
Short of a government adopting an express atheist position, I don't see how judges can start handing out blanket convictions for fraud.
If a priest/imam/rabbi/guru/whatever genuinely believes in his/her god(s) ... can what he/she's doing be described as fraud ... no matter how much money/time/virgin daughters (s)he's demanding?
Even to most obscenely rich televangelist … if they (claim to) sincerely believe … what can a judge do? Sure, there was the case of Popoff, but he was caught faking healings and using strawmen[1]. Even he was not taken to task for the sincerity of his faith.

 1. what’s the English term? Stooges?
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Offline Greatest I am

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Re: Should Governments regulate fraudulent religions?
« Reply #18 on: March 22, 2018, 03:48:18 PM »
Short of a government adopting an express atheist position, I don't see how judges can start handing out blanket convictions for fraud.
If a priest/imam/rabbi/guru/whatever genuinely believes in his/her god(s) ... can what he/she's doing be described as fraud ... no matter how much money/time/virgin daughters (s)he's demanding?
Even to most obscenely rich televangelist … if they (claim to) sincerely believe … what can a judge do? Sure, there was the case of Popoff, but he was caught faking healings and using strawmen[1]. Even he was not taken to task for the sincerity of his faith.
 1. what’s the English term? Stooges?

Judges care about facts and truth. They do not care what a fraudster believes, he cares if the victim is being lied to and that is easy to prove, if the lie has no facts to back it up, it is obviously a lie.

They nail fortune tellers etc. when they get greedy enough to have a complain registered against them and I think they should do the same with religious fraudsters.

Regards
DL

Offline Basset Hound

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Re: Should Governments regulate fraudulent religions?
« Reply #19 on: March 22, 2018, 04:16:02 PM »
If they do, they should especially regulate Gnostic Christians.  Every religion claims all others are fraudulent.  Let governments leave religions alone.

Offline Fiji

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Re: Should Governments regulate fraudulent religions?
« Reply #20 on: March 22, 2018, 04:50:49 PM »
Judges care about facts and truth. They do not care what a fraudster believes, he cares if the victim is being lied to and that is easy to prove, if the lie has no facts to back it up, it is obviously a lie.

"If you repent your sins, you will go to heaven" ... or any of a million similar statements.

Go ahead, Greatest, prove this is a lie. You're the prosecutor, the burden of proof is on you in this case.
Prove to the judge, with facts, that the above statement is a lie.

They nail fortune tellers etc. when they get greedy enough to have a complain registered against them and I think they should do the same with religious fraudsters.

Regards
DL

No they don't ... except in very … Very … VERY rare cases, as in, literally, one in a million, if that, that usually involve threats of a supernatural sort or the sale of magical items … but fortune tellers who only tell fortunes … nigh on never.
Romania tried to institute a money back guarantee for fortune telling but it didn’t stick.
Besides, most fortunes are delivered verbally.
“No your honor, she misunderstood. I said she MIGHT want to invest in toxic waste. I didn’t say she had to.”
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And in the seventh year, thou shalt cast out the Nam from thine assembly for he haveth a potty mouth.

Offline Greatest I am

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Re: Should Governments regulate fraudulent religions?
« Reply #21 on: March 22, 2018, 06:11:50 PM »
If they do, they should especially regulate Gnostic Christians.  Every religion claims all others are fraudulent.  Let governments leave religions alone.

Why especially Gnostic Christianity?

It does not all others are fraudulent.

Get the quote or be seen as one of the liars.

As to leaving religions alone. I guess they should let Christian bakers who discriminate against gays, and let the suicide cults just off themselves along with their children eh?

I will wait for the quotes to prove you are not just another laud mouthed liar.

Regards
DL



Offline One Above All

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Re: Should Governments regulate fraudulent religions?
« Reply #22 on: March 22, 2018, 06:14:54 PM »
If they do, they should especially regulate Gnostic Christians.  Every religion claims all others are fraudulent.  Let governments leave religions alone.

Why especially Gnostic Christianity?

It does not all others are fraudulent.

Get the quote or be seen as one of the liars.

As to leaving religions alone. I guess they should let Christian bakers who discriminate against gays, and let the suicide cults just off themselves along with their children eh?

I will wait for the quotes to prove you are not just another laud mouthed liar.

Regards
DL

Baking is not a religion, and killing children is still killing children.
EDIT: And yes, all religions[1] say that all the other religions are wrong. They're all mutually exclusive, so even if they don't explicitly state that everyone else is wrong, just by claiming to be right, they're implicitly saying everyone else is wrong.
 1. I consider each denomination of each "main" religion as its own religion, just FYI.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2018, 06:16:32 PM by One Above All »
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Offline Greatest I am

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Re: Should Governments regulate fraudulent religions?
« Reply #23 on: March 22, 2018, 06:16:30 PM »
Judges care about facts and truth. They do not care what a fraudster believes, he cares if the victim is being lied to and that is easy to prove, if the lie has no facts to back it up, it is obviously a lie.

"If you repent your sins, you will go to heaven" ... or any of a million similar statements.

Go ahead, Greatest, prove this is a lie. You're the prosecutor, the burden of proof is on you in this case.
Prove to the judge, with facts, that the above statement is a lie.

They nail fortune tellers etc. when they get greedy enough to have a complain registered against them and I think they should do the same with religious fraudsters.

Regards
DL

No they don't ... except in very … Very … VERY rare cases, as in, literally, one in a million, if that, that usually involve threats of a supernatural sort or the sale of magical items … but fortune tellers who only tell fortunes … nigh on never.
Romania tried to institute a money back guarantee for fortune telling but it didn’t stick.
Besides, most fortunes are delivered verbally.
“No your honor, she misunderstood. I said she MIGHT want to invest in toxic waste. I didn’t say she had to.”

A judge would throw your reverse onus and logical fallacy back at you.

All the defence would have to note to the judge that heaven has yet to be proven to be real and if the fraudster could not show any proof, the statements on heaven would be seen as a lie.

Regards
DL
« Last Edit: March 22, 2018, 06:19:31 PM by Greatest I am »

Offline Greatest I am

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Re: Should Governments regulate fraudulent religions?
« Reply #24 on: March 22, 2018, 06:19:12 PM »
If they do, they should especially regulate Gnostic Christians.  Every religion claims all others are fraudulent.  Let governments leave religions alone.

Why especially Gnostic Christianity?

It does not all others are fraudulent.

Get the quote or be seen as one of the liars.

As to leaving religions alone. I guess they should let Christian bakers who discriminate against gays, and let the suicide cults just off themselves along with their children eh?

I will wait for the quotes to prove you are not just another laud mouthed liar.

Regards
DL

Baking is not a religion, and killing children is still killing children.
EDIT: And yes, all religions[1] say that all the other religions are wrong. They're all mutually exclusive, so even if they don't explicitly state that everyone else is wrong, just by claiming to be right, they're implicitly saying everyone else is wrong.
 1. I consider each denomination of each "main" religion as its own religion, just FYI.

You seem to include the knowledge and wisdom religions. They do not say theirs is the only knowledge or wisdom. They would admit to be evolving and would also see the other knowledge religions as evolving.

Regards
DL



Offline One Above All

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Re: Should Governments regulate fraudulent religions?
« Reply #25 on: March 22, 2018, 06:21:20 PM »
If they do, they should especially regulate Gnostic Christians.  Every religion claims all others are fraudulent.  Let governments leave religions alone.

Why especially Gnostic Christianity?

It does not all others are fraudulent.

Get the quote or be seen as one of the liars.

As to leaving religions alone. I guess they should let Christian bakers who discriminate against gays, and let the suicide cults just off themselves along with their children eh?

I will wait for the quotes to prove you are not just another laud mouthed liar.

Regards
DL

Baking is not a religion, and killing children is still killing children.
EDIT: And yes, all religions[1] say that all the other religions are wrong. They're all mutually exclusive, so even if they don't explicitly state that everyone else is wrong, just by claiming to be right, they're implicitly saying everyone else is wrong.
 1. I consider each denomination of each "main" religion as its own religion, just FYI.

You seem to include the knowledge and wisdom religions. They do not say theirs is the only knowledge or wisdom. They would admit to be evolving and would also see the other knowledge religions as evolving.

Regards
DL

No idea what you mean by "knowledge and wisdom religions". I'm gonna guess it's "new-age" BS.
That "evolving" implies that the other religions, in their current form, are either wrong or incomplete, which is incompatible with those religions. A religion that does not claim to be right is not a thing that exists in the real world, period.
My names are many, yet I am One.
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Religions need books because they don't have gods.

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Offline Greatest I am

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Re: Should Governments regulate fraudulent religions?
« Reply #26 on: March 22, 2018, 07:12:17 PM »
If they do, they should especially regulate Gnostic Christians.  Every religion claims all others are fraudulent.  Let governments leave religions alone.

Why especially Gnostic Christianity?

It does not all others are fraudulent.

Get the quote or be seen as one of the liars.

As to leaving religions alone. I guess they should let Christian bakers who discriminate against gays, and let the suicide cults just off themselves along with their children eh?

I will wait for the quotes to prove you are not just another laud mouthed liar.

Regards
DL

Baking is not a religion, and killing children is still killing children.
EDIT: And yes, all religions[1] say that all the other religions are wrong. They're all mutually exclusive, so even if they don't explicitly state that everyone else is wrong, just by claiming to be right, they're implicitly saying everyone else is wrong.
 1. I consider each denomination of each "main" religion as its own religion, just FYI.

You seem to include the knowledge and wisdom religions. They do not say theirs is the only knowledge or wisdom. They would admit to be evolving and would also see the other knowledge religions as evolving.

Regards
DL

No idea what you mean by "knowledge and wisdom religions". I'm gonna guess it's "new-age" BS.
That "evolving" implies that the other religions, in their current form, are either wrong or incomplete, which is incompatible with those religions. A religion that does not claim to be right is not a thing that exists in the real world, period.

You do not get around much buddy.

The knowledge and wisdom religions that come to mind, and who put man above God, which they basically define as the best rules and laws they can find as they do not hold supernatural beliefs, are Gnostic Christians, Karaite Jews and the largest group, I think, Buddhists.

Regards
DL

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Re: Should Governments regulate fraudulent religions?
« Reply #27 on: March 23, 2018, 05:45:58 AM »
Should Governments regulate fraudulent religions?

https://www.google.ca/search?source=hp&ei=wRyUWquFHcm4tQXV74XQBw&q=fraud+laws&oq=fraud+laws&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0l10.1003.11584.0.15863.10.10.0.0.0.0.114.1040.3j7.10.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..0.10.1037...0i131k1.0.nCgTyqsYAOA

Fraud is a broad term that refers to a variety of offenses involving dishonesty or "fraudulent acts". In essence, fraud is the intentional deception of a person or entity by another made for monetary or personal gain. Fraud offenses always include some sort of false statement, misrepresentation, or deceitful conduct.

Most governments and countries have fraud laws of some kinds. They generally interfere with religious fraudsters only when physical harm is being done to our gullible citizens yet ignore the monetary theft that the fraudsters fleece from their victims. Prosperity ministries are the most flagrant of these immoral religions, but all religions based on demonstrable lies would be included in this question.

Our governments are quite good at acting against obvious fraudsters yet seem reluctant to protect our more gullible citizens when it comes down to religions.

Religions, to me, get a free pass to lie and steal all they can from victims, especially the older citizens even when governments know about the fraud.

I begin to see the inaction of governments on these religious fraudsters as a dereliction of duty.

Do you?

Regards
DL

1st amendment of the United States of America

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Any questions, see above Constitutional protected rights.


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Re: Should Governments regulate fraudulent religions?
« Reply #28 on: March 23, 2018, 08:27:29 AM »
Should Governments regulate fraudulent religions?

https://www.google.ca/search?source=hp&ei=wRyUWquFHcm4tQXV74XQBw&q=fraud+laws&oq=fraud+laws&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0l10.1003.11584.0.15863.10.10.0.0.0.0.114.1040.3j7.10.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..0.10.1037...0i131k1.0.nCgTyqsYAOA

Fraud is a broad term that refers to a variety of offenses involving dishonesty or "fraudulent acts". In essence, fraud is the intentional deception of a person or entity by another made for monetary or personal gain. Fraud offenses always include some sort of false statement, misrepresentation, or deceitful conduct.

Most governments and countries have fraud laws of some kinds. They generally interfere with religious fraudsters only when physical harm is being done to our gullible citizens yet ignore the monetary theft that the fraudsters fleece from their victims. Prosperity ministries are the most flagrant of these immoral religions, but all religions based on demonstrable lies would be included in this question.

Our governments are quite good at acting against obvious fraudsters yet seem reluctant to protect our more gullible citizens when it comes down to religions.

Religions, to me, get a free pass to lie and steal all they can from victims, especially the older citizens even when governments know about the fraud.

I begin to see the inaction of governments on these religious fraudsters as a dereliction of duty.

Do you?

Regards
DL

1st amendment of the United States of America

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Any questions, see above Constitutional protected rights.

I like freedom of speech.

If your constitution allows the flagrant and open fraud that I see, then it is garbage.

There is the spirit of the law and there is the letter of the law.

Go for the spirit and scrap your poorly written constitution. The fact that many Americans hide their poor behavior behind it shows how it is not serving you well.

Regards
DL