Author Topic: An encounter with an alleged biologist/apologist  (Read 47 times)

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Online kaziglu bey

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An encounter with an alleged biologist/apologist
« on: July 14, 2017, 01:14:48 PM »
A friend of mine who is a Christian and an apologist invited me a few months ago to participate in an online discussion/debate of evolution and related stuff. We did this through Zoom if I remember correctly. My friend acted as a sort of (ineffective) moderator, as he only challenged me, but a fellow apologist of his who also appeared to be a bioligst was my antagonist.

Anyways, the individual on the opposing side claimed to have a Master's degree in something relating to evolutionary biology (I don't remember if that was the specific title of his degree) who claimed to be working on his doctorate in the same area, and made some statement akin to "I am an expert in this field and currently doing research, and I don't think that Darwinian Evolution is sufficient to explain the diversity of life on earth". I responded that while that might be his opinion, it is hardly the only opinion in his field. I asked a pretty obvious and what I thought would be a softball question: What is the majority opinion in your area of study? What is the prevailing theory surrounding evolution and the diversity of life?". His response? "I don't know, I haven't had the opportunity to ask all of my peers what they think." Ummmm..... seriously? Do you need to interview every single person in your alleged field of expertise to know what it is you are supposedly an expert in? How could he not know what the majority opinion is??

The obvious answers are that he was being deliberately dishonest, because he knew that the answer to my question would contradict his "expert" assertions. Now, I don't at all claim to be an expert in this area. But I am also not making silly assertions claiming to be. I'm not an evolutionary biologist, I'm a D+A counselor, but this type of deliberate dodging, obfuscating, feigning ignorance (the worst example I have ever seen is William Lane Craig pretending not to know what the word "atheism" actually means), is tiresome, and a conversation ender for me. And when I confronted this, asking “How could you possibly think that I mean for you to interview everyone in your field? All I am asking is what is the most generally accepted theory in your field? And how can you be an expert and NOT KNOW THAT??!?!?!?!??!?!”   But he just does more dodging, dishonesty, obfuscation, and bullshit. He’s either a liar, or woefully incompetent.

I will never understand why the faithful behave in this manner. I would be appalled to act in such a dishonest way. I would be disappointed in my 13 year old son if he behaved this way. And I tend to set the bar higher for adults than teens. Apparently Too high for the religious.

This in my submission is one of the reasons that religion is declining. So called religious leaders fail to acknowledge that plenty of people have real information about how the world actually is and don’t buy into their crap anymore, and instead of trying to have an honest, modern conversation about things, they refuse to even acknowledge that there is an issue, refuse to acknowledge reality, and try to plow on with their delusional beliefs, which more and more people see through every day.
Seriously though... What would happen if the Great Green Arkleseizure didn't fram up the rammastam before the hermite curve achieved maximum nurdfurdle velocity? Now THAT would be something. AmIrite?

Offline velkyn

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Re: An encounter with an alleged biologist/apologist
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2017, 01:46:45 PM »
it's not too unusual to have folks who have no degree claim that they have one, and not to surprising to have someone who has a BS and still doesn't understand a damn thing. 

It's pretty telling that he likely didn't have a degree at all with his response about not being able to ask all of his peers.  Someone with a Masters will know quite a lot about what their peers think and what the majority opinions are.  He sounds like the run of the mill Christian liar.  And with all of them, if there is a god and a hell, it'll be full to the rafters with these TrueChrsitians who seem to forget that this god says that any lie is a damnable offence, even lies told "for" this god. 

I agree with you that this incompetent lying that is constantly practiced by theists, especially evangelical Christians, is why religion is declining.  Anyone can do a little research with so little effort now to know that they are liars and that their religion evidently depends on those lies to keep going.  It requires willful ignorance on the believer's part and a willful deceitfulness on the pastor/preacher's part. 
"There is no use in arguing with a man who can multiply anything by the square root of minus 1" - Pirates of Venus, ERB

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Online kaziglu bey

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Re: An encounter with an alleged biologist/apologist
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2017, 02:44:35 PM »
<snip>

I agree with you that this incompetent lying that is constantly practiced by theists, especially evangelical Christians, is why religion is declining.  Anyone can do a little research with so little effort now to know that they are liars and that their religion evidently depends on those lies to keep going.  It requires willful ignorance on the believer's part and a willful deceitfulness on the pastor/preacher's part.

And additionally, I think that the unctuous, disdainful, cynical attitudes of a lot of those so called leaders is a factor as well. I mean, they can come off as being charming and genuine, and they use a lot of fancy terms in order to impress the credulous, and they are generally nice and do nice things, but just can't be honest in their discussion with others. It's almost as if they can't be honest with themselves.

I actually had significant issues at a former employer due to similarly different styles of communication. It basically amounted to I would be as direct, clear, and concise as possible, while my superiors would be evasive, childish, back stabbing snakes who would say one thing to your face with a smile and stab you in the back the next moment. Surprise surprise, all, guilty parties are highly religious! When people choose to communicate this way, especially in the context of a discussion about religion, it makes it difficult to take them seriously as a human being, because they obviously don't respect other people enough to deal honestly with them. And just as the blue wall protects police officers from one another, believers rarely criticize their peers for this type of behavior.
Seriously though... What would happen if the Great Green Arkleseizure didn't fram up the rammastam before the hermite curve achieved maximum nurdfurdle velocity? Now THAT would be something. AmIrite?