Author Topic: Why won't god heal burn victims?  (Read 1531 times)

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Offline dallacuse

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Why won't god heal burn victims?
« on: June 30, 2017, 10:08:36 AM »
Just wondering why god has no problems miraculously healing people with cancer from time to time, but never seems to use that same power to eliminate the disfigurement from which people who are seriously burned suffer.

http://abc6onyourside.com/news/local/family-woman-set-on-fire-by-ex-boyfriend-in-2015-has-died

I especially welcome believers in a deity --any deity -- that supposedly has such a power to offer their thoughts on this issue.

Offline velkyn

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Re: Why won't god heal burn victims?
« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2017, 11:58:18 AM »
it's a problem for almighty god, isn't it?   those visible things seem to be impossible for an all-powerful being to deal with, like iron chariots. 
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Offline jdawg70

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Re: Why won't god heal burn victims?
« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2017, 01:27:42 PM »
I especially welcome believers in a deity --any deity -- that supposedly has such a power to offer their thoughts on this issue.

Here's a thought:

Circumstances like this also drive people to believe in the divine and the afterlife.

Not out of hope for reprieve or fear of death, but for the punishment of the wicked.

I feel like that aspect of religious belief isn't talked about enough.  Many times there will be arguments and eventually someone will put forward the argument that some people believe out of fear of death and/or desire for reward.  What is rarely discussed is the concept of people believing out of desire for the punishment of others.

For some people, the piece of shit ex-boyfriend who did this to her...the need for him to be divinely punished for this horrible act is a very real driver for them continuing to believe in the whole heaven/hell structure.

It all depends on what you want to focus on.  If she deserves it, she'll be rewarded in heaven and the temporary suffering she had to go through here on Earth is but a blink of an eye in the divine scheme of things.  If he deserves it, he'll be suffering in eternal punishment because he chose to do this horrible thing to another person, irrespective of whether or not such horrible thing was but a 'blink of an eye' in the divine scheme of things or whatever.

Basically...somethingsomething*handwave*praiseJesus!
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Offline Jag

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Re: Why won't god heal burn victims?
« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2017, 01:43:24 PM »
^^^Fantasy revenge. I totally agree with this.
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Offline Nick

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Re: Why won't god heal burn victims?
« Reply #4 on: July 02, 2017, 03:47:38 PM »
Parents in Utah went to a religious event and left their 2 year old in the car asleep.  He died from heat.  So while the parents were praising/thanking God for whatever.  He did not stop their kid from dying.  How about that for faith?  I guess He does move in mysterious ways.  That kid He could have saved.  No amputee or burn surprise needed.  Could have just been a thought put into one parents head to check on the kid.  But no.  If It exist It is a monster unworthy of praise or anything else.  PS - the parents are idiots.  I guess they can make another.
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Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Why won't god heal burn victims?
« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2017, 02:04:05 AM »
Just wondering why god has no problems miraculously healing people with cancer from time to time, but never seems to use that same power to eliminate the disfigurement from which people who are seriously burned suffer.

OPTION 1 - Because this is merely an earthly shell - the believer will be reborn in an incorruptible form in heaven.  You should no more pray to remove burn scars than you should to pray to change your hair colour, or make your nose prettier.

OPTION 2 - God don't heal them, because god finds them too distasteful to get near to.  Leviticus 21 makes it quite clear that anyone with a "blemish" - including being "scabbed", which I guess we can equate to burn scars - must keep the hell away from Yahweh. 
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline kaziglu bey

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Re: Why won't god heal burn victims?
« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2017, 05:14:51 PM »
Just wondering why god has no problems miraculously healing people with cancer from time to time, but never seems to use that same power to eliminate the disfigurement from which people who are seriously burned suffer.

http://abc6onyourside.com/news/local/family-woman-set-on-fire-by-ex-boyfriend-in-2015-has-died

I especially welcome believers in a deity --any deity -- that supposedly has such a power to offer their thoughts on this issue.

It is ALWAYS the case with God that the things that believers attribute to faith healing are things that can happen naturally. So no supernatural explanation is actually necessary, but religious folks love to invoke Gawd anyways. This doesn't just apply to faith healing, but any type of so called miraculous thing. It's always stuff that could happen anyways. No magic required. As you said, severe burn victims don't magically wake up one day perfectly fine. People missing limbs are not having them spontaneously regenerated. People with traumatic facial disfigurement don't get new faces prayed onto them. Nothing ever happens that only God could do. It's honestly probably the most disappointing thing about religion and the most obvious reason that it is false.

I also think that a good corollary question to ask: why don't God's followers do these things? Jesus says his real followers will have even greater powers than him. Unless Jesus was wrong or isn't real (hint, hint), there should be no amputees. His followers would just be doing awesome stuff left and right, and the whole world would be puppies and cupcakes and 4 day weekends.
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Offline shnozzola

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Re: Why won't god heal burn victims?
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2017, 06:54:15 PM »
   Sometimes our arguments are standing in the believers shoes and saying - why doesn't god do this or that.  I hope believers understand what our view is -  No deities seem to exist, or have ever existed.  And my point - what does exist,  is humanity.  What does exist is our collective knowledge of how best to treat burn victims. What does exist is the tireless effort of medicine for centuries, building upon our step by step discoveries - what works and what doesn't work.  All from an evolution over billions of years - much more amazing than an omnipotent magician.

   One could say that God's followers do do these things (heal burn victims).  They believe in god while going to school, becoming doctors, studying the proofs and the mistakes of humanity.  They attend college for years, do or learn research, the latest on skin grafting and antiseptic practices - everything that humanity has learned and discovered - and then attribute it to a nonexistent god, after years and years of work.

   Really, theism is programmed to do absolutely everything, like every non-theist, - and then thanking a nonexistent being, while studying for the next test, or scrimping for the next bill, or praying that they get a break, but not getting it, then thanking the nonexistent being for the lesson of "not getting prayers answered".

   Like is said in the bible - "they look and they look, but they do not see".  But in this case it is the believers that refuse to see the truth - that we are on our own, and surviving as a species is up to us, including  learning the next medical practice to safely learn, research, and treat the next problem.
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Offline martirosi

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Re: Why won't god heal burn victims?
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2017, 05:51:44 AM »
it's a problem for almighty god, isn't it?   those visible things seem to be impossible for an all-powerful being to deal with, like iron chariots.

I'm absolutely agree

Offline velkyn

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Re: Why won't god heal burn victims?
« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2017, 08:58:32 AM »
it's a problem for almighty god, isn't it?   those visible things seem to be impossible for an all-powerful being to deal with, like iron chariots.

I'm absolutely agree

Hello Martirosi,, welcome to the forum!  IF you'd like, introduce yourself here: http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/board,17.0.html 
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Offline YouCantHandleTheTruth

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Re: Why won't god heal burn victims?
« Reply #10 on: October 18, 2017, 02:13:54 PM »
Just wondering why god has no problems miraculously healing people with cancer from time to time, but never seems to use that same power to eliminate the disfigurement from which people who are seriously burned suffer.

http://abc6onyourside.com/news/local/family-woman-set-on-fire-by-ex-boyfriend-in-2015-has-died

I especially welcome believers in a deity --any deity -- that supposedly has such a power to offer their thoughts on this issue.

How about people with Down's Syndrome?  Life is hard enough without it.  If you have severe Down's Syndrome, how does this help you have a productive life?  I remember asking the amputee question to a theist and he said "There are plenty of amputees that have way happier lives than people with all their limbs that are deeply depressed."  Totally avoided the question and added another problem - why is there so much depression?  That seems very strange too, and cripples plenty of people emotionally, preventing them from being productive, as does bipolar depression, schizophrenia, and so on and so on.

Offline Basset Hound

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Re: Why won't god heal burn victims?
« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2018, 09:06:49 PM »
Because he's too busy helping some high school or college football team win.  There are only 24 hours in a day.

Offline velkyn

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Re: Why won't god heal burn victims?
« Reply #12 on: January 08, 2018, 10:09:43 AM »
no surprise that the theists who occasionally frequent this forum avoid topics like these.
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Offline dallacuse

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Re: Why won't god heal burn victims?
« Reply #13 on: April 13, 2018, 10:35:58 AM »
no surprise that the theists who occasionally frequent this forum avoid topics like these.

Wouldn't it be nice to hear why god doesn't from a theist, though?

Also,as someone above mentioned -- how about having a Downs Syndrome child lose that extra chromosome -- for kicks, god could give it to a sibling for a day or so!! Would be tough to explain w/o thinking supernatural intervention...

And the recent hockey player tragedy--not only are the dead  lost forever, but I'm sure at least one of the injured survivors will bear more than emotional scars.

Maybe if we ALL pray selflessly, all of the survivors will emerge unscathed--at least physically. How likely would that be... &)

Offline velkyn

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Re: Why won't god heal burn victims?
« Reply #14 on: April 13, 2018, 11:14:06 AM »
indeed.  of course, we'll never see that even tried.   Theists don't like to show how they fail and fail and fail. 
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Offline Jag

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Re: Why won't god heal burn victims?
« Reply #15 on: May 27, 2018, 11:50:11 AM »
I spotted the loonie! ^^^^^^

Moderator Edit: Loonie has been removed.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2018, 07:59:48 AM by jetson »
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Offline clip11

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Re: Why won't god heal burn victims?
« Reply #16 on: May 28, 2018, 01:19:21 AM »
Just wondering why god has no problems miraculously healing people with cancer from time to time, but never seems to use that same power to eliminate the disfigurement from which people who are seriously burned suffer.

http://abc6onyourside.com/news/local/family-woman-set-on-fire-by-ex-boyfriend-in-2015-has-died

I especially welcome believers in a deity --any deity -- that supposedly has such a power to offer their thoughts on this issue.

How about people with Down's Syndrome?  Life is hard enough without it.  If you have severe Down's Syndrome, how does this help you have a productive life? 

When my mom was pregnant with my younger sister, the doctors said there was a high chance she'd be born with Down Syndrome. Being raised in a xian family, my parents prayed and wouldn't you know, my sister was born perfectly fine. To this day, my sister's 25 years old now, my parents credit this to god. My thought is this, why couldn't god let her be born with down syndrome and then heal her for all to see? For a god who can just wish anything he wants into existence it would've been equally as trivial to heal her after she was born where everyone could see it as it was in the womb where no one could see it. I tried explaining to my parents that it was a coincidence but it fell on deaf ears.

Offline clip11

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Re: Why won't god heal burn victims?
« Reply #17 on: May 28, 2018, 01:21:44 AM »
no surprise that the theists who occasionally frequent this forum avoid topics like these.

Funny thing is that if you pray to Allah and nothing happens, to a christian that's proof that allah is a false god and Islam is a false religion. If you pray to Jesus and nothing happens, well he isn't a magical genie or it wasn't his will or insert your excuse here.

Offline Foxy Freedom

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Re: Why won't god heal burn victims?
« Reply #18 on: May 28, 2018, 07:20:12 AM »
When my mom was pregnant with my younger sister, the doctors said there was a high chance she'd be born with Down Syndrome. Being raised in a xian family, my parents prayed and wouldn't you know, my sister was born perfectly fine. To this day, my sister's 25 years old now, my parents credit this to god. My thought is this, why couldn't god let her be born with down syndrome and then heal her for all to see? For a god who can just wish anything he wants into existence it would've been equally as trivial to heal her after she was born where everyone could see it as it was in the womb where no one could see it. I tried explaining to my parents that it was a coincidence but it fell on deaf ears.

Religious people cannot tell the difference between context and cause when their own beliefs are involved. You should make up various examples so that they learn the difference. eg A man walks into a Hindu shrine with food poisoning and asks to be cured. The next day he is better. Context or cause? Someone prays to find their car keys and finds them later that day. Context or cause?

Religion not only messes up what people think but the way they think. In order to protect an invalid conclusion they will use invalid methods of thinking, including poor logic and poor statistics if they get that far. They retain childhood thinking such as personification and purpose, using words and quotes (eg from parents then others) as evidence, instead of using adult methodology to understand things as they would do in other aspects of life. Poor method is the reason why so much biblical research is so bad. Beginning with a conclusion makes it useless.
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Offline velkyn

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Re: Why won't god heal burn victims?
« Reply #19 on: May 28, 2018, 10:31:16 AM »
no surprise that the theists who occasionally frequent this forum avoid topics like these.

Funny thing is that if you pray to Allah and nothing happens, to a christian that's proof that allah is a false god and Islam is a false religion. If you pray to Jesus and nothing happens, well he isn't a magical genie or it wasn't his will or insert your excuse here.
exactly.  Foxy has it right.
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Offline clip11

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Re: Why won't god heal burn victims?
« Reply #20 on: June 02, 2018, 03:22:46 PM »
When my mom was pregnant with my younger sister, the doctors said there was a high chance she'd be born with Down Syndrome. Being raised in a xian family, my parents prayed and wouldn't you know, my sister was born perfectly fine. To this day, my sister's 25 years old now, my parents credit this to god. My thought is this, why couldn't god let her be born with down syndrome and then heal her for all to see? For a god who can just wish anything he wants into existence it would've been equally as trivial to heal her after she was born where everyone could see it as it was in the womb where no one could see it. I tried explaining to my parents that it was a coincidence but it fell on deaf ears.

Religious people cannot tell the difference between context and cause when their own beliefs are involved. You should make up various examples so that they learn the difference. eg A man walks into a Hindu shrine with food poisoning and asks to be cured. The next day he is better. Context or cause? Someone prays to find their car keys and finds them later that day. Context or cause?

Religion not only messes up what people think but the way they think. In order to protect an invalid conclusion they will use invalid methods of thinking, including poor logic and poor statistics if they get that far. They retain childhood thinking such as personification and purpose, using words and quotes (eg from parents then others) as evidence, instead of using adult methodology to understand things as they would do in other aspects of life. Poor method is the reason why so much biblical research is so bad. Beginning with a conclusion makes it useless.

Plus if a Christian hears a testimony from a Hindu that he was healed from walking through a Hindu shrine, they would chalk it up to coincidence. They wouldn't jump to the conclusion that Hinduism is true and they should convert ASAP. They'd apply skeptical thinking and want evidence that walking through Hindu shrines heals diseases and injuries.

Offline Graybeard

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Re: Why won't god heal burn victims?
« Reply #21 on: June 04, 2018, 04:07:18 AM »
Jesus gives the answer as to why burn victims are not healed (or at least, properly healed minus the scar tissue) in John:9

Joh:9:1: And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth.
Joh:9:2: And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?
Joh:9:3: Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.
[...]
Joh:9:6: When he had thus spoken, he spat on the ground, and made clay of the spittle, and he anointed the eyes of the blind man with the clay,
Joh:9:7: And said unto him, Go, wash in the pool of Siloam, (which is by interpretation, Sent.) He went his way therefore, and washed, and came seeing.

The principle is clear - anyone who isn't normal is like that because they are a living advertisement for the power of God.

Asking God to cure all defects, is similar to asking Coca-Cola not to advertise - the adverts are necessary that production (disciples) might continue to increase and thus Jesus can make His second entrance and organize the slaughter of 2.8 billion people (See Re:9:15: And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.
Re:9:18: By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths
.)

It is all part of God's plan, and so nobody should really worry or care about it.
Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

Offline velkyn

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Re: Why won't god heal burn victims?
« Reply #22 on: June 04, 2018, 10:15:30 AM »
^^ over in the thread about this verse, MM has given his position that might equals right via a truly incompetent apologist. 
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Offline clip11

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Re: Why won't god heal burn victims?
« Reply #23 on: June 04, 2018, 11:24:28 PM »
Jesus gives the answer as to why burn victims are not healed (or at least, properly healed minus the scar tissue) in John:9

Joh:9:1: And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth.
Joh:9:2: And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?
Joh:9:3: Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.
[...]
Joh:9:6: When he had thus spoken, he spat on the ground, and made clay of the spittle, and he anointed the eyes of the blind man with the clay,
Joh:9:7: And said unto him, Go, wash in the pool of Siloam, (which is by interpretation, Sent.) He went his way therefore, and washed, and came seeing.

The principle is clear - anyone who isn't normal is like that because they are a living advertisement for the power of God.

Asking God to cure all defects, is similar to asking Coca-Cola not to advertise - the adverts are necessary that production (disciples) might continue to increase and thus Jesus can make His second entrance and organize the slaughter of 2.8 billion people (See Re:9:15: And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.
Re:9:18: By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths
.)

It is all part of God's plan, and so nobody should really worry or care about it.

To rephrase what the OP said "Why doesn't anyone's god ever perform any unambiguous miracles? Why aren't gunshot wounds automatically healed by prayer? Why aren't amputees ever healed? Why aren't broken bones ever automatically mended by prayer? Why aren't deceased cremated people ever brought back to life? Why aren't deceased animals ever brought back to life? Why aren't old people ever rejuvenated to youth via prayer? Why aren't angels breaking christians imprisoned for their faith out of jail? You know, anything unambiguous?

Offline velkyn

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Re: Why won't god heal burn victims?
« Reply #24 on: June 05, 2018, 07:37:36 AM »
Why aren't angels breaking christians imprisoned for their faith out of jail? You know, anything unambiguous?

that's a very good point. 
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Offline velkyn

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Re: Why won't god heal burn victims?
« Reply #25 on: June 16, 2018, 09:53:28 AM »
Quote
EDIT: Removed by moderator.

well, it's not too hard to spot the loonie right here.   &)
« Last Edit: June 16, 2018, 05:53:18 PM by jetson »
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Offline clip11

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Re: Why won't god heal burn victims?
« Reply #26 on: June 17, 2018, 12:21:55 AM »
it's a problem for almighty god, isn't it?   those visible things seem to be impossible for an all-powerful being to deal with, like iron chariots.
Yep. If we only lived 3000 years ago, god was very active. Then a miracle was the red Sea being parted, today it's someone finding a kind of decent paying job after looking for 6 months and going back to school to get proper training.

Offline velkyn

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Re: Why won't god heal burn victims?
« Reply #27 on: June 17, 2018, 08:47:56 AM »
it's a problem for almighty god, isn't it?   those visible things seem to be impossible for an all-powerful being to deal with, like iron chariots.
Yep. If we only lived 3000 years ago, god was very active. Then a miracle was the red Sea being parted, today it's someone finding a kind of decent paying job after looking for 6 months and going back to school to get proper training.

yep, this god has been reduced to coincidence and parlor tricks.   
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Offline Gabriela

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Re: Why won't god heal burn victims?
« Reply #28 on: July 05, 2018, 08:40:46 AM »
Heeey you that I totally agree with this you are absolutely right!!