Author Topic: medieval antibiotics  (Read 217 times)

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Offline velkyn

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medieval antibiotics
« on: May 09, 2017, 09:20:24 AM »
I love this kind of stuff.  ;D

https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2017/05/09/the-next-antibiotics-could-come-from-the-dark-ages/?utm_term=.11cb0ca41178

Quote
A common cause of modern styes is the bacterium Staphylococcus aureus. Methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus (or MRSA) is resistant to many current antibiotics. Staph and MRSA infections are responsible for a variety of severe and chronic infections, including wound infections, sepsis and pneumonia.

Bald’s eyesalve contains wine, garlic, an Allium species (such as leek or onion) and ox gall. The recipe states that, after the ingredients have been mixed together, they must stand in a brass vessel for nine nights before use.

In our study, this recipe turned out to be a potent antistaphylococcal agent, which repeatedly killed established S. aureus biofilms — a sticky matrix of bacteria adhered to a surface — in an in-vitro infection model. It also killed MRSA in mouse chronic wound models.
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Offline Mr. Blackwell

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Re: medieval antibiotics
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2017, 11:11:48 AM »
I fully expect the AMA and large pharmaceutical companies will launch a campaign denying any scientific evidence that such non patent-able, natural concoctions are effective.
When I criticize political parties or candidates, I am not criticizing you. If I criticize you, there will be no doubt in your mind as to what I am saying.

Offline velkyn

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Re: medieval antibiotics
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2017, 12:15:33 PM »
a possibility, but much harder to do now than it used to be with how fast information gets around.   

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Offline jynnan tonnix

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Re: medieval antibiotics
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2017, 12:46:37 PM »
I love this kind of stuff.  ;D

https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2017/05/09/the-next-antibiotics-could-come-from-the-dark-ages/?utm_term=.11cb0ca41178

Quote
A common cause of modern styes is the bacterium Staphylococcus aureus. Methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus (or MRSA) is resistant to many current antibiotics. Staph and MRSA infections are responsible for a variety of severe and chronic infections, including wound infections, sepsis and pneumonia.

Bald’s eyesalve contains wine, garlic, an Allium species (such as leek or onion) and ox gall. The recipe states that, after the ingredients have been mixed together, they must stand in a brass vessel for nine nights before use.

In our study, this recipe turned out to be a potent antistaphylococcal agent, which repeatedly killed established S. aureus biofilms — a sticky matrix of bacteria adhered to a surface — in an in-vitro infection model. It also killed MRSA in mouse chronic wound models.
Fascinating article...I read a bunch of the comments to see what other people might be thinking, and happened on this link to the actual abstract. Don't have time to read the whole thing at the moment, but thought you might be interested.
http://mbio.asm.org/content/6/4/e01129-15.full

Offline screwtape

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Re: medieval antibiotics
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2017, 09:43:17 PM »
I fully expect the AMA and large pharmaceutical companies will launch a campaign denying any scientific evidence that such non patent-able, natural concoctions are effective.

? Why wouldn't they just study it, isolate what's effective about it, and mass produce it?  Just like they did with peni cillin...
What's true is already so. Owning up to it does not make it worse.

Offline Mr. Blackwell

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Re: medieval antibiotics
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2017, 10:05:05 PM »
I fully expect the AMA and large pharmaceutical companies will launch a campaign denying any scientific evidence that such non patent-able, natural concoctions are effective.

? Why wouldn't they just study it, isolate what's effective about it, and mass produce it?  Just like they did with peni cillin...

I don't know. Other than the fact that you can't get a patent on "natural" cures for anything. When you look at herbal supplements and the claims that the manufacturers make you see a disclaimer that whatever the manufacturer claims their all natural cure will do for you has not been evaluated by the FDA.

So, if a product can not get FDA approval, the AMA will not recommend it because it is technically not a drug.

I don't know who owns this website or who they are affiliated with but here is a rebuttal from 2015

Quote
It’s not often that medievalists get as excited as they have been over the revival of a medieval remedy for eye conditions involving garlic, onions, wine and ox gall, prepared in a bronze vessel. The concoction, mixed up by a team from Nottingham University, appeared to show promising results in the battle against MRSA. It didn’t kill it all, but it apparently killed 90%. This has revived enthusiasm for trawling ancient texts for the solutions to modern problems.

The remedy comes from Bald’s Leechbook, a 10th-century manuscript, and the powers of the separate ingredients of the remedy have been known for some time: garlic has anti-fungal, anti-viral, anti-parasitic and anti-microbial qualities.

The idea of subjecting medieval recipes to modern methods of testing is also not new. In 1993, in his book Anglo-Saxon Medicine, the biologist ML Cameron singled out this very remedy as “an outstanding example of a remedy likely to have been helpful”. And it was this same remedy that was reconstructed by a team from Wheaton College, although their results, published in 2005, found that it had no effect.
http://www.science20.com/the_conversation/why_i_wasnt_excited_about_that_medieval_remedy_for_mrsa-154723

As far as I am concerned, if it works I think we should use it. I am not a fan of synthetic chemicals.

 
When I criticize political parties or candidates, I am not criticizing you. If I criticize you, there will be no doubt in your mind as to what I am saying.

Offline velkyn

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Re: medieval antibiotics
« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2017, 08:09:49 AM »
I fully expect the AMA and large pharmaceutical companies will launch a campaign denying any scientific evidence that such non patent-able, natural concoctions are effective.

? Why wouldn't they just study it, isolate what's effective about it, and mass produce it?  Just like they did with peni cillin...

that would be likely. and then design some bacteria to produce it.
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Offline screwtape

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Re: medieval antibiotics
« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2017, 08:20:21 AM »
I don't know. Other than the fact that you can't get a patent on "natural" cures for anything.

You can get a patent on the process by which you extract or synthesize the cure.  And if a drug is useful, they can still make money on whether they have a patent or not.  Drug companies still make aspirin and antibiotic, after all.

When you look at herbal supplements and the claims that the manufacturers make you see a disclaimer that whatever the manufacturer claims their all natural cure will do for you has not been evaluated by the FDA.

So, if a product can not get FDA approval, the AMA will not recommend it because it is technically not a drug.

That is incorrect.  A doctor will generally not recommend them because they have not been evaluated. I work in a hospital now, I hear the term "evidence based" all the time, thank goodness.  It is the difference between pharmaceuticals and homeopathy, physical therapy and chiropractic.  One actually works, the other is bullshit that does nothing, at best, and could kill you, at worst.

There is no evidence - rigorously tested, statistical evidence - that those so-call "remedies" help - or at least don't hurt - people who take them.  Additionally, because they fly under the FDA, the facilities that make these so-called remedies are also not regulated.  A study recently showed that when buying these unregulated herbs and supplements, you often are not getting what's advertised.  They often use weeds and even sawdust in place of expensive herbs or as fillers.

 And if a doc recommends it to you, it would be unethical and opening him or her up to potential lawsuits if the so-called "remedy" ends up hurting you. 

I don't know who owns this website or who they are affiliated with...

Then you probably ought not reference it.  Because it looks like you are just posting it because it supports your position.
 
As far as I am concerned, if it works I think we should use it.

Me too.  I just want to make sure it actually works, understand the side effects and ensure quality. That's what the FDA process does, or is supposed to do. After 30+ years of asshole republicans gutting their budget, it's a lot more difficult.

I am not a fan of synthetic chemicals.

Thats a whole other discussion.  But you probably actually love synthetic chemicals and don't realize it.

What's true is already so. Owning up to it does not make it worse.

Offline Nick

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Re: medieval antibiotics
« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2017, 08:24:54 AM »
When I 1st read the title of this post I thought it would be about the GOP healthcare plan...leeches, chicken bones, and prayer.
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