Author Topic: Afraid to be wrong?  (Read 295 times)

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Offline wheels5894

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Re: Afraid to be wrong?
« Reply #29 on: April 06, 2017, 02:55:57 PM »
Oddly, in billion years time you won't be asking this question because, by then, the sun will have expanded into a red giant and will enclose the earth. Nothing will be left alive by then.
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Offline mark1962

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Re: Afraid to be wrong?
« Reply #30 on: April 06, 2017, 03:03:32 PM »
...I take it there are no definitive answers for science, only the infinite response "we don't know, but we will find out"?


Offline Foxy Freedom

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Re: Afraid to be wrong?
« Reply #31 on: April 06, 2017, 03:12:21 PM »
...I take it there are no definitive answers for science, only the infinite response "we don't know, but we will find out"?

Does your computer definitively work?
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Offline Boots

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Re: Afraid to be wrong?
« Reply #32 on: April 06, 2017, 03:21:52 PM »
...I take it there are no definitive answers for science, only the infinite response "we don't know, but we will find out"?

this is a wrong-headed interpretation.  There are many, many definitive answers in science.  There are also some "we don't know"s too.

Question for you, mark1962--where does God come from?
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Online jdawg70

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Re: Afraid to be wrong?
« Reply #33 on: April 06, 2017, 03:28:47 PM »
All I'm simply asking is "where did that come from". Theoretically I could ask this same question 5 billion years from now...I'm not getting into a religious debate or diatribe with anyone here. I have nothing to concede to nor do I ask anyone to concede anything to me? Again, I'm also not getting into the "correct" wording or if I implied this or that, that's not my intent...

Okay, then I will say that I am certainly not thinking about this 'too hard'.  I think I am giving this an appropriate level and degree of thought.

You're asking "where did that come from."  I think you mean where did science come from.  Okay.  The answer is: science is a methodology derived by human minds trying to develop a process for understanding the world around them.  It came from the minds of people.  To be clear, science is a process and methodology.

But I am still thinking the question you're really trying to get at is Why should we trust science to provide any answers?.

...I take it there are no definitive answers for science, only the infinite response "we don't know, but we will find out"?
It's probably more accurate to say "we don't know, but we may find out."

And I really am not quite sure I understand what you mean when you say 'definitive'.
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Offline jetson

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Re: Afraid to be wrong?
« Reply #34 on: April 06, 2017, 04:45:21 PM »
So...is anyone afraid to be wrong? Who's right? Is there any correct answer?

I am willing to be wrong, and I am not afraid to find out I am wrong. I am happy to be corrected. With the scientific approach to understanding, it is imperative that objective truth be discovered as much as possible. Science tends to move towards truth, and tends to shed that which it learns is no longer sufficient to explain a thing. Religion does not do this. Religion is pure faith, with personal experience and feelings as the guiding principle. Religion, being invented by humans who do not know anything objective about their god claims, is stated as truth by its adherents, and it is most successful at preventing real inquiry. Anytime one truly digs in, they find nothing but ancient claims without substance.

If I accept a scientific explanation as the best explanation for something, it is perfectly acceptable for science to correct itself, and it is paramount. The same is not true with gods. If you are wrong about the god you perhaps worship, you will suffer eternal hell, along with most humans who also got it wrong.

Offline jetson

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Re: Afraid to be wrong?
« Reply #35 on: April 06, 2017, 04:53:49 PM »
My question to you still remains the same...where do your particular beliefs come from?  If, for example, your current beliefs are predicated on science or scientific theory? I would reply to you that I have absolutely no problem with science and it's theories. My one and only simplistic question would be to ask you where did science come from? And just to let you know where I'm going with this. I'll ask a rhetorical question about the creation of the universe. If you suggest that the universe began with a "big bang" my reply to you would be...where did the big bang come from...?

Science is not able to explain everything. It has never been used for that purpose. It breaks up into many smaller areas of study in order to focus on specifics and provide best explanations. I do not know what, or if anything came prior to the Big Bang. I suspect that my brain would be unable to regress infinitely - because what would be the point? I would ask the same thing of god believers: what, who created the god? Again, not knowing is acceptable, and honest. Claiming to know, and claiming to have the answer in a god is dishonest and arrogant (you made no such claim.)

If one's brain simply cannot fathom the endless question of where everything came from, that is not the trigger to go full god mode and claim that there must have been an "uncaused cause" as William Craig likes to claim. Perhaps it is true that there must be an uncaused cause, but that does not mean it was a god, or even a creator. It is merely a philosophical hypothesis.

I don't like to describe myself as having beliefs, although I admit that it is the best word to describe one's positions on these types of issues. I enjoy the sciences, and I benefit from the amazing work that so many scientists have done over time to get us to this point in time. I freely admit that even some of our strongest theories with explanations could be wrong. And I cannot think of a specific "wrong" that would shake up my world so much as a Christian discovering that Islam is true, and Jesus was a hoax.

Offline velkyn

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Re: Afraid to be wrong?
« Reply #36 on: April 07, 2017, 09:38:43 AM »
My question to you still remains the same...where do your particular beliefs come from?  If, for example, your current beliefs are predicated on science or scientific theory? I would reply to you that I have absolutely no problem with science and it's theories. My one and only simplistic question would be to ask you where did science come from? And just to let you know where I'm going with this. I'll ask a rhetorical question about the creation of the universe. If you suggest that the universe began with a "big bang" my reply to you would be...where did the big bang come from...?

Mark,  you are asking the same old question creationists have offered for years.  It’s the cosmological argument all over again, and that one fails since one can ask “where did your god come from?”  and the only answer a creationist has is special pleading e.g. their god doesn’t have the same rules applied to it as the theist wants to apply to everything else. 

You may want to consider the following:

You seem to be trying to claim that science came from your god.  You need evidence for this claim.
You seem to be trying to claim that your god is the only god.  You need evidence for this claim.
You seem to be trying to claim that only your god has existed/does exist/will exist.   You need evidence for this claim.
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