Author Topic: Hi guys  (Read 283 times)

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Offline foke

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Hi guys
« on: February 23, 2017, 02:21:31 PM »
Hi, people.
My name is Christian and I classify myself as an agnostic (irony is strong with this one  ;D). I'm 20 years old, I live in Europe and English isn't my native language, so any spelling or grammatical errors you might encounter in my posts would be because of that. I'm currently studying psychology for my bachelor's degree. My relatives are orthodox. Now, I'm aware that some people may have a different understanding of the term "agnostic" so I'm willing to define it. I think that when you give a God certain parameters (Christianity, Islam, Hinduism etc) and it doesn't live up to them, it WILL get debunked. Now, if somebody asked me if there was a God (whereas God=creator of the universe) and there was no Bible, no Quran, nor any conditions of operation attributed to it, my natural response would be - who knows? It's a possibility. I'm myself torn on this. And I'm open-minded. If atheism rejects belief in gods, in my definition agnosticism doesn't and rather takes the most neutral position on the issue - "I don't know".
Also, I've got the impression that most of you are Americans. I've got a question of my own - are there any other Europeans on here?  ;D

Online jdawg70

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Re: Hi guys
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2017, 03:00:26 PM »
Hi, people.
My name is Christian and I classify myself as an agnostic (irony is strong with this one  ;D). I'm 20 years old,
Damn kids and their music/get off my lawn/man I feel old

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I live in Europe and English isn't my native language, so any spelling or grammatical errors you might encounter in my posts would be because of that.
Well hell from the posts you've made thus far you seem to grasp English better than many Americans that I know.

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I'm currently studying psychology for my bachelor's degree. My relatives are orthodox. Now, I'm aware that some people may have a different understanding of the term "agnostic" so I'm willing to define it. I think that when you give a God certain parameters (Christianity, Islam, Hinduism etc) and it doesn't live up to them, it WILL get debunked. Now, if somebody asked me if there was a God (whereas God=creator of the universe)
Does 'creator of the universe' not qualify as a parameter that could or could not be lived up to?

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and there was no Bible, no Quran, nor any conditions of operation attributed to it, my natural response would be - who knows? It's a possibility. I'm myself torn on this. And I'm open-minded. If atheism rejects belief in gods, in my definition agnosticism doesn't and rather takes the most neutral position on the issue - "I don't know".
Did you ever practice a religion or some manner of spirituality at any point in your life?

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Also, I've got the impression that most of you are Americans. I've got a question of my own - are there any other Europeans on here?  ;D
There are a number of Europeans around here, but I'm not one of them.  I'm an American, though truth be told I'm pretty ashamed of that fact lately.
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."

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Offline Jag

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Re: Hi guys
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2017, 03:38:04 PM »
Hi foke, and welcome!

Your English is great, but your remark is noted and filed for future reference should it become necessary.  ;)

As for agnosticism, I think in general most of us would probably identify as agnostic atheists were we inclined to be that precise. There are a few members who take a much stronger stance, but most of us tend toward the "I see no evidence for the existence of any god described so far, so I live my life as if no such entity exists".

I lack whatever mechanism is responsible for allowing belief in gods. I also acknowledge that a non-participating god - deism, essentially - is possible. I don't have a reason to believe it, but I can't deny the possibility of the existence of such an entity.

My daughter is a deist of a sort. She doesn't like the idea of no higher intelligence that gave a shit about this planet at some point, so she has decided to believe that such an entity might/does exist. She's well aware that it's a choice, and one that she makes for comfort alone. It's harmless, in that she has no expectation of intervention or interaction from such  being, nor does she think that she needs to act in any particular way to please it. Her "god" is her secret teddy bar.
"Tell people that there's an invisible man in the sky that created the entire universe and the majority believe you. Tell them the paint is wet, and they have to touch it to be sure." ~George Carlin

Offline foke

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Re: Hi guys
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2017, 07:45:36 PM »
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I'm currently studying psychology for my bachelor's degree. My relatives are orthodox. Now, I'm aware that some people may have a different understanding of the term "agnostic" so I'm willing to define it. I think that when you give a God certain parameters (Christianity, Islam, Hinduism etc) and it doesn't live up to them, it WILL get debunked. Now, if somebody asked me if there was a God (whereas God=creator of the universe)

Does 'creator of the universe' not qualify as a parameter that could or could not be lived up to?

Yes, definitely. But can you say with certainty that an entity could not live up to that parameter? What humanity knows to this day is not enough to decisively claim that our universe does not have a creator. Now, I'm young and I hope that within my lifetime our knowledge will increase to the point where we can safely determine whether our reality is manipulated or came into existence by accident. I would be comfortable with either of those outcomes.

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and there was no Bible, no Quran, nor any conditions of operation attributed to it, my natural response would be - who knows? It's a possibility. I'm myself torn on this. And I'm open-minded. If atheism rejects belief in gods, in my definition agnosticism doesn't and rather takes the most neutral position on the issue - "I don't know".

Did you ever practice a religion or some manner of spirituality at any point in your life?

Well, I was baptized when I was young. Also, I celebrate most of the Christian holidays such as Easter, Christmas etc. and I sometimes like to go to an orthodox church. I'm emphasizing on orthodox because they're completely different from churches that belong to other Christian denominations.

Hi foke, and welcome!

Thanks, Jag  :laugh:

Offline Nick

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Re: Hi guys
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2017, 01:56:12 PM »
There were some Europeans here but I think a wall is going up soon.  Welcome.
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

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Offline Emma286

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Re: Hi guys
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2017, 02:44:34 PM »
Welcome to the forums doke. Hoping you enjoy your stay and decide to stick around.  ;)

Offline Emma286

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Re: Hi guys
« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2017, 02:52:30 PM »
I lack whatever mechanism is responsible for allowing belief in gods. I also acknowledge that a non-participating god - deism, essentially - is possible. I don't have a reason to believe it, but I can't deny the possibility of the existence of such an entity.

My daughter is a deist of a sort. She doesn't like the idea of no higher intelligence that gave a shit about this planet at some point, so she has decided to believe that such an entity might/does exist. She's well aware that it's a choice, and one that she makes for comfort alone. It's harmless, in that she has no expectation of intervention or interaction from such  being, nor does she think that she needs to act in any particular way to please it. Her "god" is her secret teddy bar.

I'm glad to hear that on your daughter Jag. Sounds like she's pretty self aware which is a good thing!

Offline Emma286

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Re: Hi guys
« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2017, 02:53:49 PM »
There were some Europeans here but I think a wall is going up soon.  Welcome.

Yup. Pity we can't stick Trump behind some wall somewhere and permanently separate him from everyone else imho. ;)

Online jdawg70

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Re: Hi guys
« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2017, 05:28:10 PM »
Yes, definitely. But can you say with certainty that an entity could not live up to that parameter?
Nope, but then again I'm never ever really thrilled with the notion of 'certainty' in the sense of 'absolute certainty'.

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What humanity knows to this day is not enough to decisively claim that our universe does not have a creator.
Agreed.  If, however, humanity were somehow able to establish that the universe (and/or the sum total of reality) does not have a creator, does that necessarily mean that humanity has established that there is no god?

Is a 'creator-of-realities-god' type of parameter a necessary parameter in establishing godhood?  If the sum total of reality 'just was' and a powerful entity were gestated in some manner from that, and that particular entity did stuff like 'create galaxies and planets and Lady Gaga' would that entity qualify as a god or no?

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Now, I'm young and I hope that within my lifetime our knowledge will increase to the point where we can safely determine whether our reality is manipulated or came into existence by accident. I would be comfortable with either of those outcomes.
'Accident' has a lot of semantic baggage behind it, what with implications such as 'in opposition to an intended outcome' or somesuch.  I would just recommend that you not think in terms of a dichotomous 'reality was created' OR 'reality was an accident'.  Concepts like 'accident', 'without cause', 'random', 'indeterminate' all have some manner of semantic relation to each other in some form or another and it can be quite easy to interchange the use of those words/phrases without thinking about what other semantic baggage you've snuck in without your explicit intent.
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."

- Eddie Izzard

http://deepaksducttape.wordpress.com/

Offline foke

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Re: Hi guys
« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2017, 07:16:23 AM »
There were some Europeans here but I think a wall is going up soon.  Welcome.

Yup. Pity we can't stick Trump behind some wall somewhere and permanently separate him from everyone else imho. ;)

Honestly, I'm not American and I've never lived in the USA, but I like Trump and support his views. On the contrary, Merkel's politics on the issue disgust me. Maybe we can discuss that in another topic.

What humanity knows to this day is not enough to decisively claim that our universe does not have a creator.
Agreed.  If, however, humanity were somehow able to establish that the universe (and/or the sum total of reality) does not have a creator, does that necessarily mean that humanity has established that there is no god?

Is a 'creator-of-realities-god' type of parameter a necessary parameter in establishing godhood?  If the sum total of reality 'just was' and a powerful entity were gestated in some manner from that, and that particular entity did stuff like 'create galaxies and planets and Lady Gaga' would that entity qualify as a god or no?

Well, I'm not sure I can speak on behalf of everyone, but for me that would surely mean there was no God, in the sense of a founder-of-all-things entity. Though, if such discovery was made, the evidence behind it would have to be pretty convincing. Just like I'm convinced that the Earth isn't flat, for instance.

Also, I don't think that the attributes you gave to that entity in your example would qualify it as a God. It could be powerful - yes, but it would be creating planets, stars and galaxies within an already established universe.

Now, I'm young and I hope that within my lifetime our knowledge will increase to the point where we can safely determine whether our reality is manipulated or came into existence by accident. I would be comfortable with either of those outcomes.

'Accident' has a lot of semantic baggage behind it, what with implications such as 'in opposition to an intended outcome' or somesuch.  I would just recommend that you not think in terms of a dichotomous 'reality was created' OR 'reality was an accident'.  Concepts like 'accident', 'without cause', 'random', 'indeterminate' all have some manner of semantic relation to each other in some form or another and it can be quite easy to interchange the use of those words/phrases without thinking about what other semantic baggage you've snuck in without your explicit intent.

Thanks, noted. That was an appropriate remark  :laugh:

Offline velkyn

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Re: Hi guys
« Reply #10 on: February 26, 2017, 12:49:37 AM »
foke,

what of Trumps's ideas do you support?  I am asking for direct quotes and how you support them.

I have a blog of my own and I have quite a few non- USA followers/posters.  You might be interested in how they react to my posts.

https://clubschadenfreude.com/

"There is no use in arguing with a man who can multiply anything by the square root of minus 1" - Pirates of Venus, ERB

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Offline Mrjason

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Re: Hi guys
« Reply #11 on: February 26, 2017, 10:09:44 AM »
welcome to the forum foke

Also, I've got the impression that most of you are Americans. I've got a question of my own - are there any other Europeans on here?  ;D

I'm from the UK so am European for the time being.

Offline Emma286

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Re: Hi guys
« Reply #12 on: February 26, 2017, 10:26:04 AM »
There were some Europeans here but I think a wall is going up soon.  Welcome.

Yup. Pity we can't stick Trump behind some wall somewhere and permanently separate him from everyone else imho. ;)

Honestly, I'm not American and I've never lived in the USA, but I like Trump and support his views. On the contrary, Merkel's politics on the issue disgust me. Maybe we can discuss that in another

Sure. :) I'm not American either! From South East London in the UK just for the record. Don't consider myself an expert on the subject of him. But do feel I know enough to have formed this opinion.

Yeah...I've heard/read mixed things on Merkel, though only the odd thing. Don't know lots about her. My brother holds the strong view she's a bad politician. I read she wants to do right regarding this guy but then I guess, without knowing more info, it's silly for me to hold any opinion on her! 

Offline Lilly Pool

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Re: Hi guys
« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2017, 03:07:27 PM »
I'm Belgian, and although english neither is my mothertongue I can spell names.