Author Topic: More red than blue, blue leads how? US elections.  (Read 2213 times)

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Offline jdawg70

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Re: More red than blue, blue leads how? US elections.
« Reply #58 on: November 08, 2016, 04:27:28 PM »

So, like, are y'all actually exchanging ideas or are you just getting on each other's nerves at this point?

If you guys feel like there are still ideas worthwhile to discuss, ideally related to the thread topic, by all means continue.  But if that's not the case I suggest the discussion be dropped here; maybe pick it up in a new thread discussing attitudes of 'resentment' and 'condescension' as related to general human psychology.

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Offline Azdgari

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Re: More red than blue, blue leads how? US elections.
« Reply #59 on: November 08, 2016, 04:29:31 PM »
Probably some of both.  The topic of tone-policing minorities with respect to their feelings toward racism is worth exploring, IMO.
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Online jaimehlers

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Re: More red than blue, blue leads how? US elections.
« Reply #60 on: November 08, 2016, 06:19:15 PM »
What I've learned from this election and from jaime is that everything the white working class does is, by its nature, above reproach. If they resent me, as a black urbanite, it is my duty to see to it that they're made to be comfortable lest they get they slightest hint of resentment. Jaime, I'm not mad at you in particular because this is a theme that's been running through this election. But you have to realize how fucking dumb it sounds to people of color.
Actually, no, that's not what I was saying at all.  There's a difference between being reproachful and being resentful, at least in my book.  The way I see it, being resentful tends to undercut reproach - the person being reproached can pick up on the resentment which makes it look like the reproach was because of the resentment, rather than because they screwed up.
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Offline shnozzola

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Re: More red than blue, blue leads how? US elections.
« Reply #61 on: November 08, 2016, 06:27:38 PM »
Actually, I look at the beauty of having the House and the Senate as being the voices of a state's majority mainstream (The Senate) and the voices of small fringe minorities (The House) as what makes the U.S. so great.  Here's a link:

https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/groups

Here we have The Oath Keepers, Storm Front, Nation of Islam, The Jewish Defense League, and Nuwaubian Nation of Moors - I believe George Constanza would have insisted they are in fact "the Moops" :D, just to name a few.

-  We could just as easily throw in Quakers, the Military Association of Atheists and Free Thinkers, or the American Council of Witches.

Anyway, the voice the House of Representatives gives to this happy and horrible mix of small districts throughout the United States is exactly as the Founding Fathers intended.  We may not like it, but the first amendment gives these folks a voice mixed with the voices.

Tolerance, folks.

So now I'm walking down to the polls to vote for Hillary.  Hope everyone was able to vote.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2016, 06:30:18 PM by shnozzola »
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Re: More red than blue, blue leads how? US elections.
« Reply #62 on: November 08, 2016, 08:20:06 PM »
What I've learned from this election and from jaime is that everything the white working class does is, by its nature, above reproach.

That certainly comes across in their posts. However, the reverse is also true. The urbanite's obsession with letting climate aware single mother transgender Muslims drug pushers destroy the culture of the country, is also above reproach.
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Re: More red than blue, blue leads how? US elections.
« Reply #63 on: November 08, 2016, 11:16:20 PM »
When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be bleedn obvious.

Offline Timo

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Re: More red than blue, blue leads how? US elections.
« Reply #64 on: November 09, 2016, 03:10:06 AM »
My resent has been upgraded to hatred. Fuck these people.
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Re: More red than blue, blue leads how? US elections.
« Reply #65 on: November 09, 2016, 03:32:32 AM »
Don't hatem too much. The small 2% of swinging voters is what changes things, and they were misinformed by the polls. People's voting strategy is determined by attempting to moderate the arrogance of the perceived winner. This is a delusional strategy. If the polls had been showing Clinton always behind 2%, she would have been dumped, or Democrats would have directly voted for her, instead of staying home, to give Trump more margin. Blame pollsters for electing Trump with this margin.
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Offline Azdgari

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Re: More red than blue, blue leads how? US elections.
« Reply #66 on: November 09, 2016, 03:33:50 AM »
Pollsters didn't create his support.
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Offline Timo

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Re: More red than blue, blue leads how? US elections.
« Reply #67 on: November 09, 2016, 03:58:21 AM »
Don't hatem too much. The small 2% of swinging voters is what changes things, and they were misinformed by the polls. People's voting strategy is determined by attempting to moderate the arrogance of the perceived winner. This is a delusional strategy. If the polls had been showing Clinton always behind 2%, she would have been dumped, or Democrats would have directly voted for her, instead of staying home, to give Trump more margin. Blame pollsters for electing Trump with this margin.

President Obama was up by higher margins in 2008 and had a more consistent lead that was about as sizable in 2012. Somehow he was still president. This isn't to be blamed on so-called swing voters. This is to be blamed on all of the motherfuckers that came out of the woodwork to vote for Trump. I honestly didn't think they were really out there since there was no evidence he actually brought new voters to the table in the primary. I think basically it could be showed that he brought likely GOP voters who didn't normally vote in the primaries to the primaries.

This whole shit has me sick to my damn stomach. I'm afraid for my people, honestly. If this is anything like the Brexit vote, where hate crimes spiked, shit could get pretty damn precarious for me and mine. I shall be rolling with an alluminum bat in my Accord in case anyone wants to try me.
Nah son...

Offline One Above All

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Re: More red than blue, blue leads how? US elections.
« Reply #68 on: November 09, 2016, 04:33:52 AM »
Trump has won, by the look of it from

http://fivethirtyeight.com/live-blog/2016-election-results-coverage/

That happens sometimes when one person's vote counts more than another person's. Hope you guys live through this.
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Re: More red than blue, blue leads how? US elections.
« Reply #69 on: November 09, 2016, 05:43:50 AM »
I might go and buy my first television and lots of popcorn, don't wanna miss this shit.

Take care peeps.
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Offline Razel

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Re: More red than blue, blue leads how? US elections.
« Reply #70 on: November 09, 2016, 05:45:07 AM »
Sorry atheists, looks like your "calling everyone who disagrees with me an unenlightened barbarian" strategy didn't work out for ya.  Better luck next time!   ;D

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Re: More red than blue, blue leads how? US elections.
« Reply #71 on: November 09, 2016, 06:18:21 AM »
Sure.
some skepisms,
1. "I have not seen God. I have felt the invisible presence"
2. What if there is a rock in the middle of a road, a blind person is speeding towards it, ...they say that they can't see it.   Would you recommend him to keep speeding?

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Re: More red than blue, blue leads how? US elections.
« Reply #72 on: November 09, 2016, 06:28:03 AM »
Sorry atheists, looks like your "calling everyone who disagrees with me an unenlightened barbarian" strategy didn't work out for ya.  Better luck next time!   ;D

True. The media should have stuck to pointing out that the world debt bubble would likely pop, if Trump destabilized the markets. How will it work out for you, if the debt bubble pops? Got any money, or are you totally penniless and have nothing to lose?
When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be bleedn obvious.

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Re: More red than blue, blue leads how? US elections.
« Reply #73 on: November 09, 2016, 07:01:08 AM »
That happens sometimes when one person's vote counts more than another person's. Hope you guys live through this.
It isn't a matter of one person's vote counting more than another's so much as it is a matter that only a handful of states actually matter due to the way the Electoral College is set up (since Americans don't actually elect the president).  This is twice now, in recent history, that the candidate a majority of Americans favored has failed to be elected, although this time it was by a narrower margin than in 2000.  Perhaps this will further the idea that's already floating around that the national popular vote should decide the winner rather than a handful of swing states which get all the attention (and money) in a presidential election cycle, which has already been approved by states and jurisdictions representing 165 electoral votes, and received approval from at least one legislative house in states representing 96 more.  Once the number hits 270, it would effectively become the law of the land for the entire country since their electors would be bound to vote for whoever wins the popular vote.

Personally, I think that would be a wise idea.  It's bothered me for a long time that the minority of voters in a given state is irrelevant as far as the election goes, so that 'guaranteed' blue and red states are pretty much ignored by both major party candidates.  And there's a lot of people who agree with me, even in a red state like Oklahoma; the smallest support that the idea got in a poll conducted at the beginning of 2015 here was 71%.

I'll decide whether I want to comment on the election later on.  Right now I'm pretty dejected about the whole thing, and I would no doubt be highly pessimistic.
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Offline Razel

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Re: More red than blue, blue leads how? US elections.
« Reply #74 on: November 09, 2016, 07:08:28 AM »
Sorry atheists, looks like your "calling everyone who disagrees with me an unenlightened barbarian" strategy didn't work out for ya.  Better luck next time!   ;D

True. The media should have stuck to pointing out that the world debt bubble would likely pop, if Trump destabilized the markets. How will it work out for you, if the debt bubble pops? Got any money, or are you totally penniless and have nothing to lose?

Yeah, they were saying Obama was going to be the end of the world too.

And even if he was, it would be worth it just to slap that self-righteous smirk off your smug face. 
How does it feel to think you have the world figured out in your little echo chamber, only to be blindsided by reality? 
All you can do now is shriek impotently about white people.

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Re: More red than blue, blue leads how? US elections.
« Reply #75 on: November 09, 2016, 07:12:17 AM »
President Obama was up by higher margins in 2008 and had a more consistent lead that was about as sizable in 2012. Somehow he was still president.

http://uselectionatlas.org/RESULTS/national.php

I can't make a rebuttal. The figures aren't in yet. Hillary is currently ahead in the popular vote. Half an hour ago, she was behind.
T 55,528,491
C 55,903,174

The average uninteresting election gets 58 million per uninteresting candidate.
When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be bleedn obvious.

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Re: More red than blue, blue leads how? US elections.
« Reply #76 on: November 09, 2016, 07:23:17 AM »
Yeah, they were saying Obama was going to be the end of the world too.

And even if he was, it would be worth it just to slap that self-righteous smirk off your smug face. 
How does it feel to think you have the world figured out in your little echo chamber, only to be blindsided by reality? 
All you can do now is shriek impotently about white people.

The markets had already crashed prior to Obama, so he couldn't have made it worse. However, he just rode the wave of money printing, and now (worldwide) we have a debt level of twice what preceded the 1929 crash. The markets may crash sooner or later. Trump will likely bring the date forward, or make it more certain.

Read this:
http://thesovereigninvestor.com/exclusives/80-stock-market-crash-to-strike-in-2016/

The predictions have nothing to do with Trump. They are not to spite Trump, like predicting Obama is the antichrist was purely to spite Obama. It still may happen after one Hillary term.

Quote
And even if he was, it would be worth it just to slap that self-righteous smirk off your smug face. 
How does it feel to think you have the world figured out in your little echo chamber, only to be blindsided by reality?   

Are you a Christian?

We know that around 15% of Trump voters supported him to destroy America and laugh. Is that you?

Clinton's vote seems to be ahead of Trump's. What have I not understood, in my echo chamber?
« Last Edit: November 09, 2016, 07:32:14 AM by Add Homonym »
When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be bleedn obvious.

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Re: More red than blue, blue leads how? US elections.
« Reply #77 on: November 09, 2016, 07:44:16 AM »

The markets had already crashed prior to Obama, so he couldn't have made it worse. However, he just rode the wave of money printing, and now (worldwide) we have a debt level of twice what preceded the 1929 crash. The markets may crash sooner or later. Trump will likely bring the date forward, or make it more certain.

Read this:
http://thesovereigninvestor.com/exclusives/80-stock-market-crash-to-strike-in-2016/

The predictions have nothing to do with Trump. They are not to spite Trump, like predicting Obama is the antichrist was purely to spite Obama. It still may happen after one Hillary term.

So it doesn't matter who won, the world's gonna end anyways.

Quote
Are you a Christian?

No.  I'm just really sick of a certain type of liberal that acts like a smug asshole and then wonders why no one likes them.  Especially when they don't actually have anything to back up their smugness.

Quote
We know that around 15% of Trump voters supported him to destroy America and laugh. Is that you?

Did you also "know" Trump had no chance of winning the Republican primaries, "know" Brexit wouldn't pass, and "know" that Trump had virtually no chance of winning the election?

It's 2016, and you're still operating like it's 2006.  You failed to adapt, and so now you're struggling to find an explanation for a world you don't understand.

Quote
Clinton's vote seems to be ahead of Trump's. What have I not understood, in my echo chamber?

Clinton lost, and the votes aren't finished being counted yet.  What's your excuse going to be if he wins the popular vote too?

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Re: More red than blue, blue leads how? US elections.
« Reply #78 on: November 09, 2016, 08:05:41 AM »
Quote
"know" Brexit wouldn't pass,

No. I knew Brexit WOULD pass, and said so, the moment I heard. Brits have been grumbling for ages. However, I was stunned that it only passed by a small amount. Also pissed off that they then wanted to change their minds afterwards, because some realised they had acted like children.

Quote
You failed to adapt, and so now you're struggling to find an explanation for a world you don't understand.

What we have to adapt to, is the internet riling people up on specialised web sites, designed for political manipulation. It used to be that we got all our news from ABC/CBS and acted normal. Now we seem to go to hate filled conspiracy sites. I spend my time on Facebook deprogramming people who believe in chemtrails and auras.

Quote
Did you also "know" Trump had no chance of winning the Republican primaries

No. I was the first to pick it on this site. I can see it from an Australian perspective. I called Bernie Sanders as a real option, when people were considering Biden. I knew Trump was a great orator, and a real threat.

However, the bulk of his support comes from hijacking the Republican party. I would like to see him have done well as an independent.

Quote
Clinton lost, and the votes aren't finished being counted yet.  What's your excuse going to be if he wins the popular vote too?

Sounds like you conceded my point.

By the way, at any time you were rooting for Trump, did someone show you anything like this?
http://www.pewhispanic.org/2015/11/19/more-mexicans-leaving-than-coming-to-the-u-s/

If so, what did you think?

« Last Edit: November 09, 2016, 08:09:06 AM by Add Homonym »
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Offline One Above All

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Re: More red than blue, blue leads how? US elections.
« Reply #79 on: November 09, 2016, 08:07:14 AM »
That happens sometimes when one person's vote counts more than another person's. Hope you guys live through this.
It isn't a matter of one person's vote counting more than another's so much as it is a matter that only a handful of states actually matter due to the way the Electoral College is set up (since Americans don't actually elect the president).
...Because the votes from people in those states count more than the votes from people in other states.
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Re: More red than blue, blue leads how? US elections.
« Reply #80 on: November 09, 2016, 10:19:40 AM »
I'm too tired from being wound up by the election stuff last night (and I didn't even stay up to watch all of it) to get into another discussion about whether or not votes are equal.

Did you have anything to say about the rest of my post?  If not, then please let the subject of vote equality drop for now.
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Re: More red than blue, blue leads how? US elections.
« Reply #81 on: November 09, 2016, 12:46:51 PM »
What we have to adapt to, is the internet riling people up on specialised web sites, designed for political manipulation. It used to be that we got all our news from ABC/CBS and acted normal. Now we seem to go to hate filled conspiracy sites. I spend my time on Facebook deprogramming people who believe in chemtrails and auras.

That is exactly why you have failed to adapt to 2016.  You're spoonfed a version of reality that only exists in cushy ivory towers.  And much like a Christian who will continue defending his Bible no matter how many contradictions of reality there are, you will continue defending your own prophets no matter how badly they failed to predict the election.

Quote
No. I was the first to pick it on this site. I can see it from an Australian perspective. I called Bernie Sanders as a real option, when people were considering Biden. I knew Trump was a great orator, and a real threat.

Congratulations then, you're the minority of liberals.

Quote
However, the bulk of his support comes from hijacking the Republican party. I would like to see him have done well as an independent.

No one would have done well as an independent, so that's a moot point.

Quote
By the way, at any time you were rooting for Trump, did someone show you anything like this?
http://www.pewhispanic.org/2015/11/19/more-mexicans-leaving-than-coming-to-the-u-s/

If so, what did you think?

I have no feelings about this whatsoever.

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Re: More red than blue, blue leads how? US elections.
« Reply #82 on: November 09, 2016, 12:59:17 PM »
Razel, are you trying to make a point, or are you trying to show how gleeful you are?  If the former, then you should probably focus on the point rather than the recriminations.  If the latter, then I'll have to ask you to stop.  Nobody likes a sore loser, but everyone hates a sore winner.
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Re: More red than blue, blue leads how? US elections.
« Reply #83 on: November 09, 2016, 01:38:12 PM »
Let me ask this then: Would you still be posting about abolishing the electoral college if Hillary had won the election but lost the popular vote?

Offline Azdgari

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Re: More red than blue, blue leads how? US elections.
« Reply #84 on: November 09, 2016, 01:58:14 PM »
People were posting about that *before* the election, while Hillary was leading.  So...yeah.
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Re: More red than blue, blue leads how? US elections.
« Reply #85 on: November 09, 2016, 02:41:29 PM »
Yes.  The electoral college either needs to be abolished or changed to prevent such upsets, as well as things like faithless electors.  You have to remember, Razel, that the electoral college came into being at the same time as when slaves counted as 3/5 of a person for determining population and when senators were appointed by the state legislatures.

If enough of the states (>270 electoral votes) can get their act together and agree to require their electors to cast their ballot for the winner of the national popular vote, that would be workable.
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Re: More red than blue, blue leads how? US elections.
« Reply #86 on: November 09, 2016, 03:00:31 PM »
So Americans voted to burn the current  system down and put in a brand new party, the alt right.

Brietbart and Alex Jones now run the world.

Oh well at least angry, undereducated old white men will get their last time in the sun before they become extinct....that's fair I suppose.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2016, 03:02:35 PM by eh! »
some skepisms,
1. "I have not seen God. I have felt the invisible presence"
2. What if there is a rock in the middle of a road, a blind person is speeding towards it, ...they say that they can't see it.   Would you recommend him to keep speeding?