Author Topic: Personal Relationship with God  (Read 23185 times)

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Offline ahumanbeing

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Re: Personal Relationship with God
« Reply #29 on: November 23, 2015, 08:13:02 PM »
The main question is about ones personal relaionship with God. So that video was a response.
THe response to your other question is that the Quran has numerous linguistic miracles and structual miracles like the ring composition. It is truly a miracle because it was put together by illiterate Arabs who had no idea about such things. I'm not really sure how to explain myself so give me some time.

Offline Emma286

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Re: Personal Relationship with God
« Reply #30 on: November 23, 2015, 08:21:26 PM »
The main question is about ones personal relaionship with God. So that video was a response.
THe response to your other question is that the Quran has numerous linguistic miracles and structual miracles like the ring composition. It is truly a miracle because it was put together by illiterate Arabs who had no idea about such things. I'm not really sure how to explain myself so give me some time.

No, the main question wasn't about that at all ahumanbeing.  Suggest rereading the original post again.  You've misunderstood things.

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Re: Personal Relationship with God
« Reply #31 on: November 23, 2015, 08:22:34 PM »
I already knew of the website. If you read the Quran in arabic (i can read it) you will see many phrases are copied. Such as yaa ayuhul la zee na aman oo and many more. Aside from the fact its a poor plagarized mockery like the True Furqan. There are also many linguistic miracles like ring patterns and so on.

Quote
There are also many linguistic miracles like ring patterns and so on.

Those miracles are found after the fact, though, and may not be true, because the people who find the codes, rig the deck, by ignoring stuff. This proves that people are capable of making random text seem miraculous, and furthermore that people will believe it, rather than check it. There are supposedly many secret Bible codes.

Do you think that modern Quranic experts are capable of writing verses that are as good as the Quran? If not, why not?

Can you think of any other way to verify that the Quran is true, that is not used by Christians, to prove that Jesus is alive and living in them?
When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be bleedn obvious.

Offline ahumanbeing

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Re: Personal Relationship with God
« Reply #32 on: November 23, 2015, 08:39:52 PM »
I already knew of the website. If you read the Quran in arabic (i can read it) you will see many phrases are copied. Such as yaa ayuhul la zee na aman oo and many more. Aside from the fact its a poor plagarized mockery like the True Furqan. There are also many linguistic miracles like ring patterns and so on.

Quote
There are also many linguistic miracles like ring patterns and so on.

Those miracles are found after the fact, though, and may not be true, because the people who find the codes, rig the deck, by ignoring stuff. This proves that people are capable of making random text seem miraculous, and furthermore that people will believe it, rather than check it. There are supposedly many secret Bible codes.

Do you think that modern Quranic experts are capable of writing verses that are as good as the Quran? If not, why not?

Can you think of any other way to verify that the Quran is true, that is not used by Christians, to prove that Jesus is alive and living in them?


Not trying to "preach" but this is a whole 2 hour video dedicated to the miracles. Speaking about Islam without evidence is a sin in Islam, and me feeding you false invalid info is most definitely wrong.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-ULa2JzPG0

Give me reasons about why you don't trust the Quran.

Offline ahumanbeing

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Re: Personal Relationship with God
« Reply #33 on: November 23, 2015, 08:40:48 PM »
The main question is about ones personal relaionship with God. So that video was a response.
THe response to your other question is that the Quran has numerous linguistic miracles and structual miracles like the ring composition. It is truly a miracle because it was put together by illiterate Arabs who had no idea about such things. I'm not really sure how to explain myself so give me some time.

No, the main question wasn't about that at all ahumanbeing.  Suggest rereading the original post again.  You've misunderstood things.

My mistake. Sorry

Offline Add Homonym

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Re: Personal Relationship with God
« Reply #34 on: November 23, 2015, 08:46:09 PM »
It is truly a miracle because it was put together by illiterate Arabs who had no idea about such things.

How do you know it was put together by illiterate arabs? Most religious texts have academics scrutinizing them for centuries.

Was Uthman illiterate?

Quote
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 6, Book 61, Hadith 510 Narrated Anas bin Malik:
  “Hudhaifa bin Al-Yaman came to Uthman at the time when the people of Sham and the people of Iraq were Waging war to conquer Arminya and Adharbijan. Hudhaifa was afraid of their (the people of Sham and Iraq) differences in the recitation of the Qur'an, so he said to 'Uthman, "O chief of the Believers! Save this nation before they differ about the Book (Quran) as Jews and the Christians did before." So 'Uthman sent a message to Hafsa saying, "Send us the manuscripts of the Qur'an so that we may compile the Qur'anic materials in perfect copies and return the manuscripts to you." Hafsa sent it to 'Uthman. 'Uthman then ordered Zaid bin Thabit, 'Abdullah bin Az-Zubair, Said bin Al-As and 'AbdurRahman bin Harith bin Hisham to rewrite the manuscripts in perfect copies. 'Uthman said to the three Quraishi men, "In case you disagree with Zaid bin Thabit on any point in the Qur'an, then write it in the dialect of Quraish, the Qur'an was revealed in their tongue." They did so, and when they had written many copies, 'Uthman returned the original manuscripts to Hafsa. 'Uthman sent to every Muslim province one copy of what they had copied, and ordered that all the other Qur'anic materials, whether written in fragmentary manuscripts or whole copies, be burnt. Zaid bin Thabit added, "A Verse from Surat Ahzab was missed by me when we copied the Qur'an and I used to hear Allah's Apostle reciting it. So we searched for it and found it with Khuzaima bin Thabit Al-Ansari. (That Verse was): 'Among the Believers are men who have been true in their covenant with Allah.' (33.23)”
http://www.answering-islam.org/authors/cornelius/complete_inspired.html

Is this story even real? People are starting to doubt the mythology of the creation of the Quran. Quranic history has the same 100 year black hole, that the New Testament has. What worries me, is the story that the prophet's wife had a copy, and hers was disposed of.

Depending on which abrogated or rejected Surahs you include, the mathematical miracles in the Quran change.

Two rejected Surahs fooled Ubai Ibn Ka’b, the one Muhammad claimed was the greatest reciter of the Quran. How do we know this is genuine history?
« Last Edit: November 23, 2015, 08:53:46 PM by Add Homonym »
When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be bleedn obvious.

Offline Add Homonym

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Re: Personal Relationship with God
« Reply #35 on: November 23, 2015, 08:52:06 PM »
Wait a minute. Have to figure out what Rebecca Faccabir means.

http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=25838.0

Quote
Palindromes in Arabic language

Arabic language is an abjad; that is, only consonants are represented as letters. Vowels are not visible as letters. Instead, they can be represented using diacritics. Palindromes in Arabic are taken from letters (consontants) only, disregarding vowels that follow/proceed them. Examples are shown below.

In the Quran
??? ???? (transl.: rabbaka fakabbir, [And] your Lord glorify) (Quran 74:3)
The sentence reads rabbaka fakabbir. Here, reading the sentence backwards including vowels would not create a palindrome. However, taking out consonants only (which are here: r, b, k, f, k, b, r) can clearly create a palindrome.
?? ?? ??? (transl.: kullun fi falak, ... [but] each, in an orbit, is swimming) (Quran 36:40)
Consontants are: k, l, f, y, f, l, k.
In Arabic literature[edit]
There is a verse in a poem credited to an anonymous that is fully reversible. The verse reads:

????? ???? ??? ??? * ??? ?? ????? ????
The verse transliterates to: mawaddatuhu tadumu likulli hawlin * wahal kullu mawaddatihi tadumu; and translates to: His cordiality lasts despite all calamities * but, will all of his cordiality last? Consonants are: m, w, d, t, h, t, d, w, m, l, k, l, h, w, [l], w, h, l, k, l, m, w, d, t, h, t, d, w, m; with [l] being the mid letter.

Yes, since Arabic is an abjad (like Hebrew), a couple of words being a palindrome, after you have removed the "i" and "a" contrast, is not a miracle. It would be slightly more interesting, if it was ribakka fakkabir.

To be a miracle, I would like to see a whole Surah being a palindrome. Surely Allah could have arranged the Arabic language to work that way? Maybe he was having an off-day.

Therefore, IMHO, this is not evidence, let alone "undeniable" as the video author claims.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2015, 09:24:03 PM by Add Homonym »
When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be bleedn obvious.

Offline eh!

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Re: Personal Relationship with God
« Reply #36 on: November 23, 2015, 09:11:26 PM »
Wait a minute. Have to figure out what Rebeccaf Faccabir means.

Allow me to put the steps in;

Rebecca

Rebecca Faccabir

Faccabir Baccafir

Allahu Faccabir

Allahu Faccabir Baccafir

Allahu Baccafir Akbar

Allahu Akbar


Got it?


Now recite it.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2015, 09:15:00 PM by eh! »
some skepisms,
1. "I have not seen God. I have felt the invisible presence"
2. What if there is a rock in the middle of a road, a blind person is speeding towards it, ...they say that they can't see it.   Would you recommend him to keep speeding?

Offline ahumanbeing

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Re: Personal Relationship with God
« Reply #37 on: November 23, 2015, 09:13:07 PM »
Wait a minute. Have to figure out what Rebeccaf Faccabir means.

He explains it later. Declare the greatness only of your Lord is what it means.

I appreciate you listening to it and trying to understand.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2015, 09:15:55 PM by ahumanbeing »

Offline eh!

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Re: Personal Relationship with God
« Reply #38 on: November 23, 2015, 09:15:31 PM »
Wait a minute. Have to figure out what Rebeccaf Faccabir means.

He explains it later. Declare the greatness only of your Lord is what it means.


See above post.
some skepisms,
1. "I have not seen God. I have felt the invisible presence"
2. What if there is a rock in the middle of a road, a blind person is speeding towards it, ...they say that they can't see it.   Would you recommend him to keep speeding?

Offline ahumanbeing

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Re: Personal Relationship with God
« Reply #39 on: November 23, 2015, 09:17:16 PM »
Wait a minute. Have to figure out what Rebeccaf Faccabir means.

He explains it later. Declare the greatness only of your Lord is what it means.

I'm confused what do you mean?
Did you see the video, if you did you would understand.
See above post.

Offline Add Homonym

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Re: Personal Relationship with God
« Reply #40 on: November 23, 2015, 09:22:35 PM »
I appreciate you listening to it and trying to understand.

I have edited my above post.

When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be bleedn obvious.

Offline albeto

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Re: Personal Relationship with God
« Reply #41 on: November 23, 2015, 09:23:55 PM »

I would reccomend you guys watch this video. A 10 minute recitation in Arabic accompanied by English subtitles showing why we Muslims feel we have a relationship with God. Even if you gain nothing, I'm sure you'll enjoy the recitation. In this chapter the simplest favors of God are highlighted for us.

Why? Why are you so sure we'll enjoy this? I find your god to be morally reprehensible, a monster and a figurehead for psychopathic, murderous behavior. I find his followers to be sadly duped into believing comforting lies so they can be "spared" the challenge of emotional and intellectual development. If anything, I would enjoy watching muslims and xians alike staying home on their days of worship, and spending that free time snuggling their family or hanging out with their friends or chipping in to help out in the community, anything that distracts them from the rituals that promote brainwashing and celebrates gullibility. 

Offline ahumanbeing

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Re: Personal Relationship with God
« Reply #42 on: November 23, 2015, 09:28:43 PM »
Are you gonna refute all 37 lol?

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Re: Personal Relationship with God
« Reply #43 on: November 23, 2015, 09:49:53 PM »
I'm not believing the second example is a miracle, either.

Quote
Allah has not made for a man two hearts in his interior. And He has not made your wives whom you declare unlawful your mothers. And he has not made your adopted sons your [true] sons. That is [merely] your saying by your mouths, but Allah says the truth, and He guides to the
way.[/size]
I think this might just be accidental wit. The reason I think it's accidental, is that it's talking about male loyalty, and excluding females as having any loyalty, because they don't matter, or something. The verse is talking about the centrality of men, so the video is trying to mislead me. It says "made for a man". For it to work properly, women would have to always have two hearts, and not have twins.

A Christian told me that since women were created from man, it was "scientific" that women only had X chromosomes. If they had a Z chromosome, then that would have been a bad thing in his mind, since a Z would have to come from somewhere else. A bit later, I remembered that women have two X chromosomes, which are different. (One is inherited from each parent) But it convinced him.

When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be bleedn obvious.

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Re: Personal Relationship with God
« Reply #44 on: November 23, 2015, 09:55:40 PM »
Are you gonna refute all 37 lol?

37 unconvincing coincidences is not a lot for such a large document. We have to allow for some wit of the original writers. Some of the wit may have been engineered, but I predict that most of it is just found randomly by people looking for stuff.

The premise of these miracles, is that the Quran was spoken in one hit. However, we see it now as written, and the history says it was written down very early. Plus the history also says it was modified by many sects, as it dispersed. Each sect could have put a pun into it. Thousands of people were involved in its construction.
When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be bleedn obvious.

Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: Personal Relationship with God
« Reply #45 on: November 23, 2015, 09:58:01 PM »
This crap being pushed into someone's head while it's still soft should be a criminal act. This 13 year old parrot is proof.
There's no right there's no wrong,there's just popular opinion (Brad Pitt as Jeffery Goines in 12 monkeys)

Offline Emma286

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Re: Personal Relationship with God
« Reply #46 on: November 23, 2015, 10:03:52 PM »
This crap being pushed into someone's head while it's still soft should be a criminal act. This 13 year old parrot is proof.

Can appreciate where you're coming from.    It's seriously no good thing.   :(

Online mrbiscoop

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Re: Personal Relationship with God
« Reply #47 on: November 23, 2015, 10:10:49 PM »
I already knew of the website. If you read the Quran in arabic (i can read it) you will see many phrases are copied. Such as yaa ayuhul la zee na aman oo and many more. Aside from the fact its a poor plagarized mockery like the True Furqan. There are also many linguistic miracles like ring patterns and so on.

Quote
There are also many linguistic miracles like ring patterns and so on.

Those miracles are found after the fact, though, and may not be true, because the people who find the codes, rig the deck, by ignoring stuff. This proves that people are capable of making random text seem miraculous, and furthermore that people will believe it, rather than check it. There are supposedly many secret Bible codes.

Do you think that modern Quranic experts are capable of writing verses that are as good as the Quran? If not, why not?

Can you think of any other way to verify that the Quran is true, that is not used by Christians, to prove that Jesus is alive and living in them?


Not trying to "preach" but this is a whole 2 hour video dedicated to the miracles. Speaking about Islam without evidence is a sin in Islam, and me feeding you false invalid info is most definitely wrong.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-ULa2JzPG0

Give me reasons about why you don't trust the Quran.



If speaking about Islam without evidence is a sin then you are totally fucked.
Post #999, upside down 666, has to mean something?
 :o
« Last Edit: November 23, 2015, 10:13:16 PM by mrbiscoop »
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Re: Personal Relationship with God
« Reply #48 on: November 23, 2015, 11:02:34 PM »
Coincidence no. 3 in the video.

We made you a "middle" nation.

This word, middle, is said to be inserted accidentally by Mohammed, in verse 143, which is precisely in the middle of Surah 2. How could this occur?

Basically, you have a load of different Qurans, from 7th, through 9th century.
http://www.studytoanswer.net/myths_ch1.html

Middle theorists would like to claim that the verse numbering system was not in place very early, but they would also like to claim the Samarkand text as an original, sent out by Uthman. But this text has verse numbering. (Phew, but luckily they are spared, because this form of adornment was not used until a lot later.)

Basically, whoever compiled an early text could have been into verse numbering, and moved verse 143 into the middle. There is ample variation in Qurans and enough time for this to have been engineered.

However, in bothering to explain this away, I'm giving it the credence of being something interesting. However, it's of such low interest, it could also be just a fluke.

There is even good evidence that Surah 2 was not in the early Quran.

Quote

 It is apparent that until the first half of the 8th century AD, those non-Muslims who interacted with them seem not to have had any understanding of an established, canonical "holy book" among the Arabs. Mingana observed,

    "...the Christian historians of the whole of the seventh century had no idea that the "Hagarian" conquerors had any sacred book; similar is the case among historians and theologians of the beginning of the eighth century."18

Correlating with this are the evidences from non-Muslim sources that were contemporary to the rise of Islam, from which we can surmise that the Qur'an, at least to the extent and in the format which it presently has, was not known to those who interacted with the early Muslims. For instance, in a debate between an Arab noble and a Christian monk from a town called Beth Hale, dated to sometime after 710 AD, we see an interesting bit of information. In reply to a question about commandments given to Christians by Christ, the monk observes to the Arab that "not all your laws and commandments are in the Qur'an which Muhammad taught you," and then proceeds to list other sources for the laws of the Arabs - surat albaqrah (now Surah 2 in the Qur'an as it presently stands), the gygy (the euaggelion, the Gospels), and the twrh (the Torah)19. This evidence suggests that at this time, Surah al-baqarah was not part of the Qur'an, but was a viewed as a separate work, on par with the Qur'an, the Gospels, and the Torah. Crone and Cook note that this dialog is the first reference to a book called the "Qur'an," but that this evidence does not necessarily argue for the Qur'an as it presently is since the monk's dialog indicates a content and extent for this "Qur'an" that is different from the present one20.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2015, 11:14:42 PM by Add Homonym »
When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be bleedn obvious.

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Personal Relationship with God
« Reply #49 on: November 24, 2015, 01:11:18 AM »
If a book of scriptures was supposedly handed down in perfect form all at once by a god, why should it ever need editing? Why would there be anything in there that did not belong? How could a perfect being let mistakes, false or corrupted stuff get into his holy book?

Learning about how religious texts, were compiled, redacted, edited, translated and changed-- until they fit some leader or ruler's idea of what the text should have said-- is a great way to let go of faith.  ;)
When all of Cinderella's finery changed back at midnight, why didn't the shoes disappear? What's up with that?

Offline Graybeard

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Re: Personal Relationship with God
« Reply #50 on: November 24, 2015, 07:30:50 AM »
Do you think that Mohammed flying to heaven on a winged horse is logical?
I think its a miracle.
Do you believe in magic?

1. How is a miracle different from "magic".

2. How is the anatomy of a "winged horse" possible.

OK. Imagine there is a god... what does he eat? How does he continue? Where does he get the stuff that he uses to make things?
Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

Offline YRM_DM

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Re: Personal Relationship with God
« Reply #51 on: November 24, 2015, 10:18:53 AM »
I would like to know what kinds of strategies everyone uses for those people who claim that their personal experience with God and/or the "holy spirit" is confirmation that their theology/religion is true and that there's nothing you can say to change that. They know for certain God changed their life and they have a "personal relationship" with God. Thus, they are closed-minded to the idea that they could be wrong and they interpret all their holy texts favorably due to this "relationship".

Is there a way to open a closed mind? If so, what are the best strategies?

I usually listen to their story, ask questions, etc.   When they retell the story, sometimes a question like, "So you saw a rainbow near a sunset and figured that was God talking to you telling you to be at peace?"   How many other people saw the rainbow/sunset?  Is the message the same for all of them?   How do you know it wasn't just a beautiful sunset?

Another good question to ask is, "So you weren't a believer, and god gave you this wonderful experience.  Before that, you didn't listen to anything anyone had to say.  Now, you're sharing your story with me right?"

"Why would I listen to you when god hasn't given that experience to me that you required to change your thinking?"

"If god can't show himself because that would mess with free will, how did he show himself to you?  Why doesn't he do that for everyone?  Or is it that I'm supposed to look up at a pretty moon and imagine some message from god, and claim it was a divine message to me?"

"When god talked to you in your life, how did you know the message he was trying to say if it was just a funny shaped cloud or pretty stars?"

Stuff like that can get them thinking, in private anyway... they won't admit that you've caused them to question anything, but, over years, they may consider what you've said.
You can't spell BELIEVE without LIE...  and a few other letters.  B and E and V and I think E.

Offline screwtape

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Re: Personal Relationship with God
« Reply #52 on: November 24, 2015, 10:28:54 AM »
Not trying to "preach" ...

Then stop preaching.  If you have questions about what preaching is, we can discuss it by PM.

What's true is already so. Owning up to it does not make it worse.

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Re: Personal Relationship with God
« Reply #53 on: November 24, 2015, 10:42:20 AM »
Are you talking about the Prophet Muhammad marying Aisha?

http://www.answering-christianity.com/aisha.htm
This reuftes it.



That is a pretty awful website.  For one, it's a total mess.  Unorganized, barely readable, does not make any kind of coherent argument. 

For two, it doesn't refute the charge of pedophilia at all.  It acknowledges it and justifies it, which is much, much worse.  It would be one thing if muslims said, "yeah, he did it, but those were the times and we know better now."  And some do say that.  Some don't.  Some say Mo's example makes it okay for them to do the same thing.  And that is a problem, don't you think?

For three, it cannot even properly cite references.  In the case of Delaware, which it seems hung up on, it cites a forum (which is not a valid reference), which cites a blog (also not a valid reference), which cites a website that seems to vaguely promote pedophilia and does not readily have the statistic originally referenced, which makes our point.

You will have to do better than this. 

It is difficult to defend religions.  This is because they were started in times when people knew a lot less than we do.  Since Mo's time, knowledge, civilization and morality have all improved.  To say Mo was justified is to throw away 1400 years of progress. 


What's true is already so. Owning up to it does not make it worse.

Offline YouCantHandleTheTruth

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Re: Personal Relationship with God
« Reply #54 on: November 24, 2015, 08:11:22 PM »
If a book of scriptures was supposedly handed down in perfect form all at once by a god, why should it ever need editing? Why would there be anything in there that did not belong? How could a perfect being let mistakes, false or corrupted stuff get into his holy book?

Learning about how religious texts, were compiled, redacted, edited, translated and changed-- until they fit some leader or ruler's idea of what the text should have said-- is a great way to let go of faith.  ;)

Yeah I always had the exact same questions.  I agree that's how a lot of people end up leaving the faith.  They decide that they're going to start analyzing their holy book in depth, and see if it really makes sense and is inerrant.

The other question I always had was, why would an all-powerful God be limited to communicating his ultimate message to book form? He's the most powerful being in the Universe, and all he can do is communicate in a book?  Why not a video, television, or some other form of communication that mankind can't even fathom at this point?  All of these would be preferable to a book.  Of course we know the answer already - a book was the only means of communication for humans at the time.  Still, when a new religion arises today, it's probably the most effective way for them to communicate their message, because it's the most difficult to refute. 
« Last Edit: November 24, 2015, 08:14:17 PM by YouCantHandleTheTruth »

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Personal Relationship with God
« Reply #55 on: November 24, 2015, 08:52:01 PM »
The day a religion produces its god, all sacred texts become obsolete. Religions need books because they don't have gods.
When all of Cinderella's finery changed back at midnight, why didn't the shoes disappear? What's up with that?

Offline median

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Re: Personal Relationship with God
« Reply #56 on: November 25, 2015, 12:37:19 AM »
The claims that religions make to things like "a changed life", "a sudden turnaround that couldn't have happened without God","a feeling of oneness with the creator", "hearing from him everyday", or "a peace that cannot be explained without God" are really what I'm driving at here. Religious people of all kinds (and I know this b/c I did it a ton myself) put lots of stock in personal interpretations of alleged experiences with the "divine", as if to imply that they are the masters of interpreting what they have experienced. Are these interpretations one of the following, or perhaps a combination thereof?

• Self deception (self lying)
• Wishful thinking
• SPAG (Self Projection as God/internal head-voice)
• Delusion
• Brainwashing
• Confirmation Bias

How might we determine a good interpretation and a bad one? What might be some methods to breakthrough the glazed look and/or brick wall effect that often accompanies these kinds of claims? I'm thinking back now of the times I made similar claims and trying to wrap my head around what things pulled me out or made me begin to rethink things.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2015, 12:39:19 AM by median »
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Carl Sagan

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Personal Relationship with God
« Reply #57 on: November 25, 2015, 01:11:15 AM »
One way is to ask the believer why, if there is one god who speaks to everyone, that ten people who listen to god hear ten completely different things? A devout Muslim, a Hasidic Jew, a Hindu mystic, a JW, a Mormon, a Vodun follower, a Buddhist monk, a Christian Identity white separatist, a feminist Wiccan, and a snake-handling faith-healing Pentecostal all say they hear the voice of real gods.

The voice of god is not only telling them all different things. It is telling each of them that the others are wrong.

Even more curious is that people in the same religion, in the exact same church, will disagree on what god wants them to do about social issues like, say, gay marriage, teen pregnancy, adultery, capital punishment, homeless people, or divorce. They will all pray to god for guidance and have different opinions on the issues.[1]

How is that possible?
 1. In my area there is a church that is apparently splitting apart because the congregation is disagreeing on these kinds of issues. One faction is accusing the others of using the bible as a mere guidebook of suggestions, instead of as the unerring holy word of god.
When all of Cinderella's finery changed back at midnight, why didn't the shoes disappear? What's up with that?