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Offline Husky

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Re: Most annoying theist arguments
« Reply #29 on: December 12, 2008, 09:04:21 PM »
Oh... I think he's referring to my claim in my profile to be an angel sent by God to test his faith.   :P

And how would you know? Cos the bible didn't say that?  ;) The bible was written almost 2000 years ago. Many things have changed in heaven since then. God only recently sent me down. He also said he will revise the bible very soon. And yeah he's monitoring this forum, we do have internet in heaven. People like that annoy JII will burn in hell...  :D
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Offline StPatrick

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Re: Most annoying theist arguments
« Reply #30 on: December 12, 2008, 09:23:28 PM »
Most annoying theist arguments:

1. How do you explain the seashells on top of Mount Everest?  It's made all the more annoying when someone like Velkyn addressed it a few posts prior.

2. Just saw this in the MailBag: science is constantly being revised, ergo it must be wrong.
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Offline Pale Rider

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Re: Most annoying theist arguments
« Reply #31 on: December 12, 2008, 09:58:02 PM »
Quote from: JesusIsImaginary on December 12, 2008, 08:51:28 PM
That an omnipotent being would create worshipers, hide, then expect faith.

These are the voyages of the star ship "God" its mission to seek out and find who else "God".....ever wonder how a man that cannot be killed just disappears into thin air never to be seen agian? Whats up with that?


Quote
2. Just saw this in the MailBag: science is constantly being revised, ergo it must be wrong.

Its called denial.... ;D
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Offline bahramthered

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Re: Most annoying theist arguments
« Reply #32 on: December 13, 2008, 12:00:34 AM »
No. it's delusion.

Science: is a changeable thing adapting to world and the evidence it finds as it tests it's theories. Just trying to stay right and all.

Religion: READ YOUR HOLY BOOK! It's perfect. Never mind that how it's interrupted has changed immensely over the last couple centuries, never mind the last 2,000 years.
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Offline rickymooston

Re: Most annoying theist arguments
« Reply #33 on: December 13, 2008, 12:51:26 PM »
Quote from: bahramthered on December 13, 2008, 12:00:34 AM
No. it's delusion.

Science: is a changeable thing adapting to world and the evidence it finds as it tests it's theories. Just trying to stay right and all.

Religion: READ YOUR HOLY BOOK! It's perfect. Never mind that how it's interruptedinterpreted has changed immensely over the last couple centuries, never mind the last 2,000 years.

spell checker is useless if you get wrong word.

Agree strawman comparison of science method (proof beyond reasonable double) to religious one (plausible deniability combined with faith) gets annoying.  I like to imagine a salesman comparing an F16 to a big mac myself
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Offline rickymooston

Re: Most annoying theist arguments
« Reply #34 on: December 13, 2008, 12:54:03 PM »
Quote from: StPatrick on December 12, 2008, 09:23:28 PM
Most annoying theist arguments:

1. How do you explain the seashells on top of Mount Everest?  It's made all the more annoying when someone like Velkyn addressed it a few posts prior.

2. Just saw this in the MailBag: science is constantly being revised, ergo it must be wrong.

Well said, dogbert!!!  These both fully contend for the top prize!!!
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Offline kevyrat69

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Re: Most annoying theist arguments
« Reply #35 on: December 13, 2008, 05:50:31 PM »
If I get blown by the god of the wind is that a blow job :D???

Here is one: God works in mysterous ways.   AAAUUUUGGGHHHHH
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Offline rickymooston

Re: Most annoying theist arguments
« Reply #36 on: December 14, 2008, 08:21:51 PM »
Quote from: kevyrat69 on December 13, 2008, 05:50:31 PM
If I get blown by the god of the wind is that a blow job :D???

Even though in Canada we cannot do this, I "plead the fifth".

Quote
Here is one: God works in mysterous ways.   AAAUUUUGGGHHHHH


True, that "circular reasoning" enabler is one of the top ones as well. And yet, given the nature of the world, theism is not possible without some form of this. I mean, the "other world is said to be the real purpose and this world has a lot of suffering ..."
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Offline xphobe

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Re: Most annoying theist arguments
« Reply #37 on: December 14, 2008, 09:55:02 PM »
Since you've all hit the biggies for me as well, I'll mention a few that deal specifically with evolution:

Evolution violates the 2nd law of Thermodynamics.

Carbon 14 dating is worthless.

Evolution can't make something as complicated as life, because it's random.

Evolution is a crock because you don't know what started life.

Evolution is a crock because you don't know if the Big Bang is true.

There is no way a Fish can evolve into a Man!

If evilusion is real, how come they aint no transisthonal fossles?

I'm sure I could think of lots more, but the dumbth is making my brain hurt.
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Offline bahramthered

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Re: Most annoying theist arguments
« Reply #38 on: December 14, 2008, 10:13:18 PM »
Quote from: rickymooston on December 13, 2008, 12:51:26 PM
Quote from: bahramthered on December 13, 2008, 12:00:34 AM
No. it's delusion.

Science: is a changeable thing adapting to world and the evidence it finds as it tests it's theories. Just trying to stay right and all.

Religion: READ YOUR HOLY BOOK! It's perfect. Never mind that how it's interruptedinterpreted has changed immensely over the last couple centuries, never mind the last 2,000 years.

spell checker is useless if you get wrong word.

Agree strawman comparison of science method (proof beyond reasonable double) to religious one (plausible deniability combined with faith) gets annoying.  I like to imagine a salesman comparing an F16 to a big mac myself

Actually I think I was close, I just used the spell checker and clicked whatever came up. And it dosen't like your "deniability".
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Offline Husky

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Re: Most annoying theist arguments
« Reply #39 on: December 14, 2008, 10:14:18 PM »
Dear xphobe,

all I want to tell you is. Evolution is possible. I am sure you heard of selective breeding. Sorry, maybe you haven't cos all you ever read is your bible.

As an example, a fish breeder might want to produce guppies with more brightly coloured scales. Starting from the first generation of guppies, he takes those that have brighter scales and allows only those to breed. Over many generations, viola he will have guppies that have the desired brighter scales.

In the case of Evolution, nature acts as the selective breeder. Nature may select for say a giraffe ancestor with longer necks. Giraffe ancestor with longer necks have access to more food and have a better chance of survival. If over the course of a few years, we can selectively breed guppies with a desired scale pattern. It's not hard to imagine how over millions of years, our giraffe ansector become the modern day giraffe we know.

You might then want to argue. God is possible too. Jesus walking on water is possible! Well sure. After all, I have seen people walking thru the Great Wall of China. Surely it's not that hard to imagine a person walking on water?
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Offline rickymooston

Re: Most annoying theist arguments
« Reply #40 on: December 14, 2008, 10:37:14 PM »
Quote from: bahramthered on December 14, 2008, 10:13:18 PM
Actually I think I was close, I just used the spell checker and clicked whatever came up. And it dosen't like your "deniability".

Of course!!! The CIA would never allow a dictionary to contain that word.

Usually, its not used with respect to logic per se but rather in terms knowledge of bad activities. However the moosean application to religion is the same idea.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plausible_deniability
Quote
Plausible deniability refers to the denial of blame in loose and informal chains of command where upper rungs quarantine the blame to the lower rungs. In the case that illegal or otherwise disreputable and unpopular activities become public, high-ranking officials may deny any awareness of such act or any connection to the agents used to carry out such act.
...
The expression "plausibly deniable" was first used publicly by Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) director Allen Dulles.[1] The idea, on the other hand, is considerably older. For example, in the 19th century, Charles Babbage described the importance of having "a few simply honest men" on a committee who could be temporarily eliminated when "a peculiarly delicate question arises" so that one of them could "declare truly, if necessary, that he never was present at any meeting at which even a questionable course had been proposed."[2]
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Offline xphobe

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Re: Most annoying theist arguments
« Reply #41 on: December 14, 2008, 11:07:56 PM »
Quote from: Husky on December 14, 2008, 10:14:18 PM
Dear xphobe,

all I want to tell you is. Evolution is possible. I am sure you heard of selective breeding. Sorry, maybe you haven't cos all you ever read is your bible.

Hehe my first successful Troll! ;)   (only that wasn't my intention - sorry about that)
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Offline rickymooston

Re: Most annoying theist arguments
« Reply #42 on: December 14, 2008, 11:25:02 PM »
Quote from: xphobe on December 14, 2008, 11:07:56 PM
Quote from: Husky on December 14, 2008, 10:14:18 PM
Dear xphobe,

all I want to tell you is. Evolution is possible. I am sure you heard of selective breeding. Sorry, maybe you haven't cos all you ever read is your bible.

Hehe my first successful Troll! ;)   (only that wasn't my intention - sorry about that)

Lol/ Husky, feel free to read the OP. We are asking for annoying arguments by theists. Xphobe complied rather nicely and you apparently see him as the pope or something.

Kind of funny.
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Offline Husky

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Re: Most annoying theist arguments
« Reply #43 on: December 14, 2008, 11:39:16 PM »
Oops...  :D Sorry Xphobe. Troll Dog got carried away when he saw the word evolution. Trolls love to discuss about evolution. Yeah kinda funny...
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Offline rickymooston

Re: Most annoying theist arguments
« Reply #44 on: December 14, 2008, 11:50:00 PM »
Quote from: Husky on December 14, 2008, 11:39:16 PM
Oops...  :D Sorry Xphobe. Troll Dog got carried away when he saw the word evolution. Trolls love to discuss about evolution. Yeah kinda funny...

Feel free to add what you consider the most annoying theist arguments my canine friend.
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Offline Operator_013

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Re: Most annoying theist arguments
« Reply #45 on: December 15, 2008, 07:08:38 AM »
I think xphobe has covered quite a few of my pet hates. I'd add to that list, "natural process can't result in an increase in information".

I'd also add, since I am not sure if they've been mentioned yet, the Anthropic Principle as a case for design (facepalm), Anselm's Ontological Argument (huh?), and anything to do with Greg Bahnsen's presuppositional apologetics (ugh).
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Offline rickymooston

Re: Most annoying theist arguments
« Reply #46 on: December 15, 2008, 08:06:48 AM »
Quote from: Moderator_013 on December 15, 2008, 07:08:38 AM
I think xphobe has covered quite a few of my pet hates. I'd add to that list, "natural process can't result in an increase in information".

I agree this is a firm contender for number one in my book. (Contends very well with the atheism implies life has no meaning claim)

Quote
I'd also add, since I am not sure if they've been mentioned yet, the Anthropic Principle as a case for design (facepalm),

Imagine a watch on the ground, it was designed. :D.

Quote
Anselm's Ontological Argument (huh?), and

The is the one that essentially says a being greater than all being must exist? All the stuff, I read on it are kind of confused.

I thought it was supposed to be the first cause argument, ...



[/quote]
anything to do with Greg Bahnsen's presuppositional apologetics (ugh).
[/quote]

I don't think I've heard these.
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Offline james

Re: Most annoying theist arguments
« Reply #47 on: December 15, 2008, 09:06:13 AM »
I've used in a discussion on miracles lately, the 'why won't god heal the most deserving amputee' argument.  What drives me nuts is a few of the responses that weren't completely insane are, " what needs to be healed? they still have a heart and a brain don't they?....there are many more much worse diseases out there.  many much less fortunate, with life-threatening illnesses...a christian amputee understands this and is grateful...yada yada....
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Offline james

Re: Most annoying theist arguments
« Reply #48 on: December 15, 2008, 10:10:17 AM »
Quote from: Moderator_013 on December 15, 2008, 07:08:38 AM
I think xphobe has covered quite a few of my pet hates. I'd add to that list, "natural process can't result in an increase in information".

I'd also add, since I am not sure if they've been mentioned yet, the Anthropic Principle as a case for design (facepalm), Anselm's Ontological Argument (huh?), and anything to do with Greg Bahnsen's presuppositional apologetics (ugh).

In some forums i've visited, the "why won't god heal amputees" argument is met with, "why do they need healing? They still  have a brain and a heart and their life, there are many more worse diseases/illnesses on the planet, and a good christian amputee would understand that and be grateful."

Or, "so far, all science has is THEORY, when u have some LAWS come talk to me."
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Offline Hermes

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Re: Most annoying theist arguments
« Reply #49 on: December 15, 2008, 10:24:43 AM »
Quote from: james on December 15, 2008, 09:06:13 AM
I've used in a discussion on miracles lately, the 'why won't god heal the most deserving amputee' argument.  What drives me nuts is a few of the responses that weren't completely insane are, " what needs to be healed? they still have a heart and a brain don't they?....there are many more much worse diseases out there.  many much less fortunate, with life-threatening illnesses...a christian amputee understands this and is grateful...yada yada....

Ask them if they are a Christian.  If they say yes, chase them around with a hack saw ... and ask them why they are running away!?!?!    8)
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Offline xphobe

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Re: Most annoying theist arguments
« Reply #50 on: December 15, 2008, 12:20:55 PM »
Quote from: james on December 15, 2008, 10:10:17 AM
Or, "so far, all science has is THEORY, when u have some LAWS come talk to me."

OMG Yes!  How could I have forgotten that one!   I like to ask them how they feel about "atomic theory" and "germ theory".
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Offline Omen

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Re: Most annoying theist arguments
« Reply #51 on: December 15, 2008, 12:23:53 PM »
I would say any argument that begins with the hidden presumption that claim A is true, and bases its own conclusions from that initial hidden premise.
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Offline rickymooston

Re: Most annoying theist arguments
« Reply #52 on: December 15, 2008, 04:57:41 PM »
Quote from: Omen on December 15, 2008, 12:23:53 PM
I would say any argument that begins with the hidden presumption that claim A is true, and bases its own conclusions from that initial hidden premise.

Any favorite examples of these circular arguments?
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Offline Omen

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Re: Most annoying theist arguments
« Reply #53 on: December 15, 2008, 05:06:04 PM »
Quote from: rickymooston on December 15, 2008, 04:57:41 PM
Quote from: Omen on December 15, 2008, 12:23:53 PM
I would say any argument that begins with the hidden presumption that claim A is true, and bases its own conclusions from that initial hidden premise.

Any favorite examples of these circular arguments?

"How can you be good without god?"
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Offline Ouabache

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Re: Most annoying theist arguments
« Reply #54 on: December 15, 2008, 05:56:38 PM »
Quote from: xphobe on December 14, 2008, 09:55:02 PM
I'm sure I could think of lots more, but the dumbth is making my brain hurt.


Yeah.. there are lots and lots and lots and lots...

http://toarchive.org/indexcc/list.html (replacement link)
« Last Edit: December 17, 2008, 08:24:18 AM by Ouabache »
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Offline Husky

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Re: Most annoying theist arguments
« Reply #55 on: December 15, 2008, 08:53:52 PM »
God exist because the bible says so. The bible is accurate because it is God's message to us.

Quote from: rickymooston on December 15, 2008, 04:57:41 PM


Any favorite examples of these circular arguments?
[/quote]
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Re: Most annoying theist arguments
« Reply #56 on: December 16, 2008, 02:02:59 AM »
Hi all, first post here.  Great forum...

This isn't an argument for believing in Christianity, but in all my years of "searching for God" in the church, it always drove me nuts how God/Jesus took ALL the credit for the good, but NONE of the blame for the bad.

If something good happened to someone, i.e., job promotion, healthy child, removed a wine stain from a shirt, then the it was the Lord's will and it was because of him.  The person couldn't take credit as it would be evil pride.   

However, if something bad happened to someone, then it was our evil, sinful nature that caused the situation.  The person gets the blame, NEVER God.

Geesh, talk about a huge EGO! 
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Offline xphobe

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Re: Most annoying theist arguments
« Reply #57 on: December 16, 2008, 03:07:08 AM »
Quote from: JtA on December 16, 2008, 02:02:59 AM
However, if something bad happened to someone, then it was our evil, sinful nature that caused the situation.  The person gets the blame, NEVER God.

Yeah, or else it's that it only seems bad to us, and of course we can't presume to understand God's mysterious ways which are by definition good.  Baby dies of some horrible disease?  Oh well.  Must have been part of God's plan we just don't understand.

Oh... Hi there!  Welcome to the Forum!
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