Author Topic: A Pagan who loves your site [#2812]  (Read 664 times)

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Offline TheUnknownWitch

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Re: A Pagan who loves your site [#2812]
« Reply #29 on: June 23, 2014, 09:54:49 AM »
Quote
The opiate of the masses ;D

Perhaps, but I would hope that my addiction is not as destructive as drugs are.
If God was going to truly die, no resurrection, would he still have gone ahead and offered himself for a sacrifice anyway?

You have a good heart. . .I think I'll eat it.

Offline screwtape

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Re: A Pagan who loves your site [#2812]
« Reply #30 on: June 23, 2014, 10:29:33 AM »
Quote from: Witch by proxy
My view of God is this:
God/Dess is not separate and outside the Universe. God/Dess is the universe. All the processes of the universe are part of God/Dess. Each object, man, beast, plant, rock contains a spark of God/Dess.

As for distinguishing God from Nature? You don’t. God is Nature.

You are just relabeling nature or redefining "god".  I understand that makes you feel better and you find that comforting.  But that strikes me as nothing more than willful fantasy. LARPing

You seem to be an actual atheist, but are trying very hard to avoid using that word. 

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Offline LoriPinkAngel

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Re: A Pagan who loves your site [#2812]
« Reply #31 on: June 23, 2014, 11:49:57 AM »
I think we should point out.  That LPA lost her faith in God, she "was" a Christian, as many people do. 

I did not lose my faith in god.  I chose not to continue to believe in something there was no evidence for.
It doesn't make sense to let go of something you've had for so long.  But it also doesn't make sense to hold on when there's actually nothing there.

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Re: A Pagan who loves your site [#2812]
« Reply #32 on: June 23, 2014, 02:53:57 PM »
Quote from: Witch by proxy
My view of God is this:
God/Dess is not separate and outside the Universe. God/Dess is the universe. All the processes of the universe are part of God/Dess. Each object, man, beast, plant, rock contains a spark of God/Dess.

As for distinguishing God from Nature? You don’t. God is Nature.

You are just relabeling nature or redefining "god".  I understand that makes you feel better and you find that comforting.  But that strikes me as nothing more than willful fantasy. LARPing

You seem to be an actual atheist, but are trying very hard to avoid using that word.
Just what I mean. You're spot on, Screwtape.

So your god is nature. Great. You call it god. We call it nature.

And assuming that god is nature, all actions of nature, according to you, must be actions of this god. Therefore, not jinxing myself, I think I just debunked your religion. You just call nature god. It does nothing that you can call supernatural, since that would not be natural.

I don't even know if we can call your god a "being" that actually does anything, since nature (outside of living things) doesn't have intelligence to make decisions like a supposed god would. It does not "control" hurricanes or tornados, they just happen when atmospheric conditions are changed by sun or other sources. If you call that a god, then just know, you are an atheist.
"God is just and fair"
*God kills 2.5 million of people he KNEW would turn out like this in the flood*
*Humanity turns bad again, when God knew it would*
We should feel guilty for this.

Offline Jeltz

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Re: A Pagan who loves your site [#2812]
« Reply #33 on: June 23, 2014, 04:17:20 PM »
Hello, TheUnknownWitch, welcome.

I've just skimmed this thread, but I tentatively agree with Screwtape-- it sounds like you're a functioning atheist.

Do you consider yourself a Pantheist?

Offline junebug72

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Re: A Pagan who loves your site [#2812]
« Reply #34 on: June 23, 2014, 10:41:35 PM »
I think we should point out.  That LPA lost her faith in God, she "was" a Christian, as many people do. 

I did not lose my faith in god.  I chose not to continue to believe in something there was no evidence for.

I'm pretty sure it's a sensitive matter when you say an atheist chose.  That's like saying you chose that the sky is blue from what I understand.

Did you have faith before you chose not to?  Or did you never have faith to begin with?  So what happened to your faith when you chose there was no evidence for God and should no longer believe.  I call that losing faith.  I don't like faith.  I don't have faith I have trust and belief.  Belief is not faith.  Faith is believing in something you don't really believe in if you ask me.  So I see losing faith as a good thing.  I could have done a better job explaining myself there.  I did not mean it as an insult.
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
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Offline junebug72

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Re: A Pagan who loves your site [#2812]
« Reply #35 on: June 23, 2014, 11:42:04 PM »
TUW I kind of knew that's what you meant.  It was a little practice for the forum.  You have to be careful what you say here.  Words are all we have. ;)  I'm glad you set the record straight.  Good job!

I did not mean that satanism and witchcraft were the same thing as far as how they do stuff.  What I mean is every religion and science are all doom and gloom the world's going to end.  It's more like dark magick is witchcraft's satan.  The dark side like Darth Vader.  Haitians have the voodoo dolls

There is no dark side to atheism except arrogance.  Atheist that are not arrogant are awesome people.  Hell even the arrogant ones are good people they just really want people to stop believing in God and they are passionate about it.  Way more passionate than I am to make them believe there is.  In fact that's not my intention.  I just wanted them to see my perception before they closed the case on God.  For many here that case is closed, chained to their wrist.   


There is no dark side to spiritual not religious.  The best part is Christians fear us much more than they do atheist.  Man they don't like talking to me, the Christians that is.  I have the right weapon if you want to whoop some Christian butt.  It's called LOVE.  Most of them don't know jack dittle about Love.  I say you show them how love is done.  You out do them on love people will follow.  Spiritual not religious is the most loving way I have encountered yet.

I still think I should get my own category and a score.  I respect The Unknown Witch's opinion.  Although I would give a 1.5 for OCG.  He changed his avatar for me TUW.  He would never hurt us.  Your story is sadder than mine girlfriend.  Religion hurt me too but not as bad as you.  That pisses me off.  I must calm down.  wipe sweat from brow.  Okay I'm okay to go.  Whoo that was close.  >:(   8) I'm cool.
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Offline LoriPinkAngel

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Re: A Pagan who loves your site [#2812]
« Reply #36 on: June 24, 2014, 07:47:17 AM »
I think we should point out.  That LPA lost her faith in God, she "was" a Christian, as many people do. 

I did not lose my faith in god.  I chose not to continue to believe in something there was no evidence for.

I'm pretty sure it's a sensitive matter when you say an atheist chose.  That's like saying you chose that the sky is blue from what I understand.

Did you have faith before you chose not to?  Or did you never have faith to begin with?  So what happened to your faith when you chose there was no evidence for God and should no longer believe.  I call that losing faith.  I don't like faith.  I don't have faith I have trust and belief.  Belief is not faith.  Faith is believing in something you don't really believe in if you ask me.  So I see losing faith as a good thing.  I could have done a better job explaining myself there.  I did not mean it as an insult.

I did not take it as an insult.  I just did not feel "losing faith" was an accurate description since it was a conscious choice to let go of belief in any god.  As for the question of whether I ever had faith (trust and belief) to begin with the answer is yes.  It ebbed and flowed throughout my life as I was in different circumstances, peer groups and mind states.  When I came to WWGHA it was circling the drain.  I altered my SPAG in desperate attempts to make god exist but finally accepted that he did not, the evidence was not there in my life.  However I try not to stomp on the faith of others if they don't practice it in a way that is intrusive to me and those who believe differently or not at all.
It doesn't make sense to let go of something you've had for so long.  But it also doesn't make sense to hold on when there's actually nothing there.

Offline screwtape

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Re: A Pagan who loves your site [#2812]
« Reply #37 on: June 24, 2014, 09:24:29 AM »
I did not take it as an insult.  I just did not feel "losing faith" was an accurate description since it was a conscious choice to let go of belief in any god.

For me it we was more of a recognition that I didn't believe.  All the pieces were there, I knew what they were, I just had not assembled them until that point.  And after that, it was a choice to acknowledge that reality, instead of continuing to repeat the lie, "I believe in god" when I did not.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2014, 07:18:44 AM by screwtape »
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Offline TheUnknownWitch

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Re: A Pagan who loves your site [#2812]
« Reply #38 on: June 24, 2014, 02:18:40 PM »
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You seem to be an actual atheist, but are trying very hard to avoid using that word.

Not really. If I come completely around to the atheistic viewpoint, I will own up to it. I’m not there yet. Just call me a Doubting Thomas.

Quote
And assuming that god is nature, all actions of nature, according to you, must be actions of this god. Therefore, not jinxing myself, I think I just debunked your religion. You just call nature god. It does nothing that you can call supernatural, since that would not be natural.

Nope. I don’t believe in the supernatural. Magick, the so-called “supernatural” beings, and God/dess, for example, all are part of the natural world according to my beliefs.

Quote
If you call that a god, then just know, you are an atheist.

Not so sure about this. I believe, O nature, help thou my unbelief
. . .or somethin’ like that.



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Do you consider yourself a Pantheist?

Yes. I’m one of those.

Quote
Faith is believing in something you don't really believe in if you ask me.

I hate that word "faith". Raise your hand if you’ve ever been hit over the head with it?

Quote
What I mean is every religion and science are all doom and gloom the world's going to end.

Not every single religion. Mine, for instance. If there were, I wouldn’t be part of it. But, dang! Some of those science documentaries are scary! Haven’t seen one in a long time since I quite watching the boobtube, but a lot of them are scarier than the bible stories of the end of the world.
If God was going to truly die, no resurrection, would he still have gone ahead and offered himself for a sacrifice anyway?

You have a good heart. . .I think I'll eat it.

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Re: A Pagan who loves your site [#2812]
« Reply #39 on: June 24, 2014, 02:46:19 PM »
Define magic"k", supernatural, and provide examples, with evidence :) , of this stuff.
"God is just and fair"
*God kills 2.5 million of people he KNEW would turn out like this in the flood*
*Humanity turns bad again, when God knew it would*
We should feel guilty for this.

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: A Pagan who loves your site [#2812]
« Reply #40 on: June 24, 2014, 04:17:15 PM »
Define magic"k", supernatural, and provide examples, with evidence :) , of this stuff.

Yeah. How is what you are describing different from just, well, normal everyday life on planet earth? There are lots of fascinating and wonderful and strange things going on in reality. Why do you have to put a decoration on it? [My work computer won't let me post images, but I would love a pic of Samantha from Bewitched about now!]
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

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Re: A Pagan who loves your site [#2812]
« Reply #41 on: June 25, 2014, 06:20:58 AM »
I would love a pic of Samantha from Bewitched about now!]


Offline TheUnknownWitch

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Re: A Pagan who loves your site [#2812]
« Reply #42 on: June 25, 2014, 08:54:06 AM »
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Define magic"k", supernatural, and provide examples, with evidence, of this stuff.

I hope that this is what you were looking for.

Okay, the definition of magick.
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Magick is the art or science of focusing, tapping into, and using the natural forces found within and around us to bring about change. . .

Magick itself is not, to use a popular phrase, black or white . . .

A basic principal of magick is that you receive from it exactly what you put into it. This refers to the will and effort you put into it, not how elaborate the spell was or how many fancy tools you used. . .

Magick is not some mysterious supernatural 'thing'. It is a totally natural force that is all around you in everything from a rock to a glass of water. It is also in you.
~ What is Magick - George Knowles

These are a few quotes from What is Magick which I happen to agree with.

What is the supernatural? Here’s one definition:
not existing in nature or subject to explanation according to natural laws; not physical or material

Examples. Like I said, I have no concrete evidence. I can give you examples of incidents that occurred of my own personal experience but they are subject to interpretation.

An example of a magick spell, well let’s take a love spell since that is the most frequent request I get both on the internet and from my acquaintances. When people find out I’m a witch, and it’s not something I hide, it’s like, “oh WOW, can you do a love spell!”

I did a spell for my friend, who is a christian BTW. She was 30 something, her biological clock was ticking and she wanted a hubby. Love spells are relatively simple.

This was a Find your soul mate spell. This one is similar to the one I used, I can’t find mine on my computer, I have so much stuff on there.

Quote
You will need the following items for this spell:

    1 Red Candle
    1 Pink Candle
    Rose Petals
Simply light the candles and put the rose petals around them in the form of a heart. Then say the following incantation:
“I call on your power,
Goddess of love.
Down from the heavens,
Descend from above.
I ask for your help,
To find the right one,
Help me find my soulmate,
With the power of the sun.”

I know, I know, it’s doggerel (my poetry was better! ;D) but that doesn’t matter. It’s the will and intent behind the spell that gives it power.

Within two weeks, she met Mr. Right.  Before the year was up, she was married and expecting. Now, thirty years later, she is still married, has four kids and is a grandmother three times.

Now before you say anything, I know there are alternate explanations here, such as coincidence. That is why I don’t claim this as evidence. It is not. When things like this happen over and over again, it seems like too much coincidence, at least to me.



I will do the supernatural thing in my next post. I have to take a little break before I do anymore typing. I tire out easily. Be back soon.

Oh, if you want an account of a spell that didn’t go so right go here.

http://www.theunknownwitch.com/maskedwitch.html

It’s purely anecdotal, but it’s pretty funny.
If God was going to truly die, no resurrection, would he still have gone ahead and offered himself for a sacrifice anyway?

You have a good heart. . .I think I'll eat it.

Offline TheUnknownWitch

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Re: A Pagan who loves your site [#2812]
« Reply #43 on: June 25, 2014, 10:59:38 AM »
Quote
Define magic"k", supernatural, and provide examples, with evidence, of this stuff.

What is the supernatural?
Here’s one definition: not existing in nature or subject to explanation according to natural laws; not physical or material

My definition: term for something that does not exist.

Everything is subject to natural laws. Nothing exists which does not follow natural laws. Everything is a part of nature and can be explained according to natural law. Things that we can’t explain according to natural law, we just haven’t figured out what the natural laws that apply are yet. Science doesn’t know everything at this point in time.

There is nothing that exists that is not physical or material. In other words, so-called “super natural phenomena” is explainable if/when we discover the natural laws that govern them.

I have no evidence that this is so. I merely point out that the things we take for granted now because we know the natural laws which govern them were thought to be impossible before we had an understanding of them. In earlier centuries, people would have thought them witchcraft.
If God was going to truly die, no resurrection, would he still have gone ahead and offered himself for a sacrifice anyway?

You have a good heart. . .I think I'll eat it.

Offline jdawg70

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Re: A Pagan who loves your site [#2812]
« Reply #44 on: June 25, 2014, 11:12:09 AM »
This was a Find your soul mate spell. This one is similar to the one I used, I can’t find mine on my computer, I have so much stuff on there.

Quote
You will need the following items for this spell:

    1 Red Candle
    1 Pink Candle
    Rose Petals
Simply light the candles and put the rose petals around them in the form of a heart. Then say the following incantation:
“I call on your power,
Goddess of love.
Down from the heavens,
Descend from above.
I ask for your help,
To find the right one,
Help me find my soulmate,
With the power of the sun.”

I know, I know, it’s doggerel (my poetry was better! ;D) but that doesn’t matter. It’s the will and intent behind the spell that gives it power.

Within two weeks, she met Mr. Right.  Before the year was up, she was married and expecting. Now, thirty years later, she is still married, has four kids and is a grandmother three times.
How do you imagine the person who came up with this spell went about deciding the specifics of this spell?  How did they determine the number of candles to use and what colors?  Why roses?  Did it need to be in the shape of the human-symbolic representation of the heart that was created in the Middle Ages?  Would this spell have not worked before the Middle Ages?  How did they decide what words to use for the incantation?  Does the language it is spoken in matter?  Is there actually entity out there intended to understand the words that are being uttered, or could you utter gibberish with the same inflection and achieve a similar/same result?  What, exactly, are you directing these spoken words towards?

Or are all of these parts of the spell really just ways to help the caster align and strengthen their will and intentions for the manifestation of the desired outcome?  Where the caster will be inundating themselves with human symbols of love and therefore force the caster to attune their focus on the idea of love.  Would the spell have worked if the caster had just as strong of an association of 'love' with the color green rather than red or pink?

If the spell had not worked, could you analyze the actual outcomes in reality and determine where you may have potentially done the spell wrong?  Could you even tell if the spell worked or didn't work?  You said she found Mr. Right within two weeks...was that within the expected timeframe of the spell working?  Do you have any sense of what that expected timeframe should have been?

Can that spell be tweaked for a different outcome?

Honestly...this looks no different then ritualistically touching your forehead, heart, left shoulder, right shoulder, folding your hand together and imploring an all-powerful, all-knowing, all-loving sentience to manifest an outcome in reality.
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."
- Eddie Izzard

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: A Pagan who loves your site [#2812]
« Reply #45 on: June 25, 2014, 12:06:40 PM »
Most women in the world get married at some point. There is nothing unusual in a woman meeting a man and getting married.

That you did a "spell" for your friend before she met her husband is so clearly coincidence that it's funny. You cannot isolate one or even 100 cases of "spells" having the desired effect as evidence of anything, certainly not if the effect is a normal everyday occurrence.[1]

In order to isolate the power of a "spell" you would need to use the scientific method. You would have to have a group of 100 women in their 30's who wanted to get married, and divide them randomly in two. Fifty will have "spells" secretly used on their behalf. The control group of fifty women will not get any "spells" done for them.

Other than that, the two groups go on with their lives, doing online dating, meeting people through friends, going to bars, whatever. Neither the spell caster or the women will know who is getting the "spells"--they will be identified only by a code number.

Periodically we check back and see who is married. Guess what?  There will be no significant difference between the women who had "spells" and the women who did not. The two groups will be, statistically exactly the same.

How do I know this? Because the same thing happens every time a study is done comparing prayer and no prayer, comparing homeopathic remedies and placebos, comparing astrology with no astrology, etc. None of that stuff works better than random chance. If it did, it would be incorporated into accepted scientific practice, because science is about what can be shown to be real, not what we wish was true. And if something works consistently when applied under controlled conditions, it qualifies as real, even if we don't know exactly how or why it works.

Now, if you secretly cast a "spell" for a friend to, within one month meet and within one year marry a left-handed man named Mephisto Mahjong, who is 6 feet tall and has black curly hair with a gray streak on the right side, who is an airline pilot from Barbados with a collie dog named Ruffalo, and it happens, then we can talk about channeling the forces of magick.

Especially if your friend is a guy! ;D
 1. If she had prayed to the Virgin Mary, to Romeo and Juliet, or to Satan and then later gotten married, would you say that the prayer was the cause? 
« Last Edit: June 25, 2014, 12:08:24 PM by nogodsforme »
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

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Re: A Pagan who loves your site [#2812]
« Reply #46 on: June 25, 2014, 12:10:16 PM »
Now, if you secretly cast a "spell" for a friend to, within one month meet and within one year marry a left-handed man named Mephisto Mahjong, who is 6 feet tall and has black curly hair with a gray streak on the right side, who is an airline pilot from Barbados with a collie dog named Ruffalo, and it happens, then we can talk about channeling the forces of magick.

Especially if your friend is a guy! ;D

This.
TheUnknownWitch, if you can "cast a spell" for the guy I like to call me and say he likes me too, and it works, I will be more inclined to believe you. If you decline or it doesn't work, I'll still consider "magic"/"magick" (however you want to spell it, it's all the same stuff, IMO) to be phoney.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

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Offline nogodsforme

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Re: A Pagan who loves your site [#2812]
« Reply #47 on: June 25, 2014, 05:01:16 PM »
Suppose you don't have the time or money to do a big scientific study to find out if witchcraft, or prayer or belief in alien presences works better at fixing some human problem than doing nothing, or than doing something recommended by modern science.

Well, lucky ducky, you don't actually have to do that study, because it has already been done. All of human history has been, basically, a gigantic longitudinal controlled study of the effects of magic, magick, prayer, rituals, incantations, herbs, mentalism, astrology, prophecies, spiritualism, telepathy, telekinesis, psychics, gods, ghosts, fairies, demons, elves, sacred books, lucky charms, alien presences, and mystical woo woo of every imaginable kind. And what has been the result of this study? Zilch.

How do we know that magical woo woo does not work as advertised? Because of this: in every single situation where people have only magical woo woo to help them, it fails miserably when compared to situations where people have modern science--with or without woo. Magical woo woo "works" exactly as well as doing nothing at all.  Sprinkling fairy dust on children makes them fly as well as not sprinkling fairy dust does.

In other words, magical woo woo is worthless.

And it did not fail because, as modern woo pushers say, people did not sincerely believe, or did not pray in the right way or pray hard enough, or offer the right spell to the correct deity.  People have been sincerely, desperately believing, praying in every possible way, to every imaginable being in every culture, in every era for thousands of years.[1] And it has failed to deliver for all of those thousands of years. It has only been in the past few centuries that people have had the ability to try anything else. People applying all kinds of magical woo woo suffered and died in large numbers from conditions that are easily prevented or treated and cured by modern science. 

The one thing we owe to magical woo woo is this: the very first things that the scientific method was applied to was to try to figure out how to make the mystical woo woo work at all or work better. Science began with investigations into magic. Showing that magic did not work was the biggest disappointment of early scientific research. However what people did discover eventually changed the entire world: a powerful, almost foolproof method for figuring out what did work, and for figuring out how to tell what was real.

People spent countless hours trying to turn ordinary metals into gold, which led nowhere, except to the foundations of modern chemistry. Same thing with various magical herbs and potions--the scientific method identifies those that are useless or harmful.  The ones that work become legitimate medicine with standard doses, expected results, warnings about side effects, etc.

Nowadays, many people who still believe in this stuff say things like, "Scientists won't investigate [their preferred form of woo woo] because of [prejudice or ignorance or demons or brainwashing or the government or the medical establishment or the media or being paid off by the pharmaceutical companies, take your pick]. But that is not the case at all.

None of these reasons can account for the fact that, if the woo woo really worked, the scientists who discovered it would get enormous prestige and lots of prizes, the first government that was able to apply this information would have a huge advantage in the world, and the businesses would be only too happy to package, bottle, synthesize and market to all of us.[2]

The reason that science turned away from spending lots of time investigating magical woo is  not jealousy or unfounded prejudice against witchcraft or magic. It's very simple: none of it worked as advertised. When you approach the magical process with a completely open mind, not assuming anything about it, use good controls, make careful observations, measure all the results (not just the ones you like) and tally up the outcomes, you get nothing.[3]

Can you imagine how much people would be willing to pay for a real working love spell or potion? Combine all that people currently spend on attracting the right person: makeup, clothes, shoes, perfume, cologne, deodorant, workout videos and classes, pushup bras, hair dye, dating services, cover charges, drinks, dinners out, and on and on.

Millions of dollars and thousands of hours wasted, if all a person really needs is a few bucks worth of candles, some flower petals and a poem chanted by a witch.

 
 1. I cannot fathom anyone praying harder, more abjectly or more sincerely than parents watching their children starve to death, or people seeing their community die of a plague.
 2. Scientists are human beings. Would they hide or cover up magical cures that worked--like a spell that cured cancer or reversed dementia-- when they and their own families would benefit?
 3. I am separating magical woo from real practical knowledge and learned skill. For example, traditional midwives deliver babies-- their methods can be evaluated scientifically to see what works well or what is harmful. Nothing magical about it.
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline SudsleyBrewright

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Re: A Pagan who loves your site [#2812]
« Reply #48 on: July 19, 2014, 06:22:21 PM »
An example of a magick spell, well let’s take a love spell since that is the most frequent request I get both on the internet and from my acquaintances. When people find out I’m a witch, and it’s not something I hide, it’s like, “oh WOW, can you do a love spell!”

I did a spell for my friend, who is a christian BTW. She was 30 something, her biological clock was ticking and she wanted a hubby. Love spells are relatively simple.

This was a Find your soul mate spell[.....]

I know, I know, it’s doggerel (my poetry was better! ;D) but that doesn’t matter. It’s the will and intent behind the spell that gives it power.

Within two weeks, she met Mr. Right.  Before the year was up, she was married and expecting. Now, thirty years later, she is still married, has four kids and is a grandmother three times.

Now before you say anything, I know there are alternate explanations here, such as coincidence. That is why I don’t claim this as evidence. It is not. When things like this happen over and over again, it seems like too much coincidence, at least to me.


Hope it's still ok to post here...

Take a movie like The Craft (I know it's just a movie ;) ) there's a part where one of the characters puts a lovespell on a guy she has a crush on. The guy is portrayed as a jerk and wants to advance with the character sexually, but she's not interested in moving quite so fast. He gets upset and spreads a rumor about her and moves on I guess. She still has a crush on him and puts a lovespell on him to get him. It works, he becomes ridiculously obsessed with her. Later in the movie, he tries to rape her. Who would be at fault?

Just curious on these "spells" which besides being silly, seem to be manipulation.

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: A Pagan who loves your site [#2812]
« Reply #49 on: July 19, 2014, 06:39:50 PM »
^^^Good point.

Who does the love spell work on? How does it work? If the person would fall in love with you without it, why do you need the spell? If they would not fall in love with you without the spell, they are going to be forced or tricked by the spell into doing something they would not otherwise do. Else what is the point of the spell?
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.