Author Topic: Satan's position  (Read 5255 times)

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Offline 12 Monkeys

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Satan's position
« on: May 08, 2015, 11:23:25 PM »
 we know that God for unknown reason (according to the prophecy)has assigned or allowed Satan to become God of the earth. Can Satan surrender relinquish or abandon the position he has inherited(or was awarded)?  Does Satan think he has won,or is he trapped by God in this position until the story plays out? Can Satan just walk away? Is he in a "play" where he is being directed until the final "act" ?

 Does Satan know his fate,or is he in control? If he (satan)is in control,God,after his greatest victory/reward given to humanity in the death of Jesus,was basically pointless. Why reward humanity with this "gift" and then relinquish/surrender humanity to your arch nemesis?
« Last Edit: May 08, 2015, 11:25:04 PM by 12 Monkeys »
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Offline Mr. Blackwell

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Re: Satan's position
« Reply #1 on: May 08, 2015, 11:42:34 PM »
That's a deep theological question. Why would Satan continue on his path if he knew that he was destined to fail? Why would so many angels follow him down? Why would God assign that role in the first place? Is it all just an act? A drama play for our benefit?

Any answer any theist or apologist would come up with would necessarily involve such things as "emotion" on the part of the players in this cosmic tragedy. Satan "feels" dejected and self righteous and is thus free to bet on himself even if God assigned that particular role to Satan. The wise and ruthless dictator teaches his creations a lesson in how wise and ruthless he is. The story of Christianity has all of the hall marks of a Greek Tragedy.

But but but...what if it's all real but God doesn't really know exactly what's going to happen next? What would God do if He wanted to try to influence a certain unforeseen outcome?

If God has any sort of human attributes he would start a propaganda war.
I am not sure how to describe the intricacies of this Hell, so I chose to begin with the most common or prominent theme of Hell, which is uncertainty.

Offline Jstwebbrowsing

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Re: Satan's position
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2015, 01:26:54 AM »
I don't think Satan believed he would lose.  But now that he has, he is filled with anger because there is no way out of his punishment.
Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Isaiah 43:10

Offline The Gawd

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Re: Satan's position
« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2015, 01:36:57 AM »
I don't think Satan believed he would lose.  But now that he has, he is filled with anger because there is no way out of his punishment.
LOL so the guy who was there with yahweh and has seen what he can (and cant do) doesnt know, but a guy down on earth who hasnt even read the screenplay knows.

seems legit

Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: Satan's position
« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2015, 10:38:00 AM »
I don't think Satan believed he would lose.  But now that he has, he is filled with anger because there is no way out of his punishment.
Where is your evidence to back up this statement?
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Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: Satan's position
« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2015, 10:50:45 AM »
That's a deep theological question. Why would Satan continue on his path if he knew that he was destined to fail? Why would so many angels follow him down? Why would God assign that role in the first place? Is it all just an act? A drama play for our benefit?

Any answer any theist or apologist would come up with would necessarily involve such things as "emotion" on the part of the players in this cosmic tragedy. Satan "feels" dejected and self righteous and is thus free to bet on himself even if God assigned that particular role to Satan. The wise and ruthless dictator teaches his creations a lesson in how wise and ruthless he is. The story of Christianity has all of the hall marks of a Greek Tragedy.

But but but...what if it's all real but God doesn't really know exactly what's going to happen next? What would God do if He wanted to try to influence a certain unforeseen outcome?

If God has any sort of human attributes he would start a propaganda war.
Hmmmm an ommni-max Deity does not know the outcome?....if this is true why would he surrender earth to something (Satan) that is not even close to him(God) in the power and ability? After his immense sacrifice (himself killing himself) and saving all humanity,giving them a reward he refused to give Jews,afterlife why would he surrender power?  Is it a reward for Satan,for his loyal service as the bad guy,from A&E,to Job,all the way up to tempting Christ? Such a loyal servant doing all of God's dirty work at the command of this God.

 Christians view him as an evil entity disobeying God at every turn. Could it be that God is rewarding his loyal servant and Christians misunderstand his (Satan) roll in the play?
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Offline wheels5894

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Re: Satan's position
« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2015, 11:57:45 AM »
This is only slightly of tangent but has some relevance about the relationship between Satan and god.
[1]
 1. sorry, couldn't get the video to show up properly
« Last Edit: May 09, 2015, 01:26:14 PM by wheels5894 »
No testimony is sufficient to establish a miracle, unless the testimony be of such that its falshood would be more miraculous than the facts it endeavours to establish. (David Hume)

Offline Jstwebbrowsing

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Re: Satan's position
« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2015, 01:24:25 PM »
This is only slightly of tangent but has some relevance about the relationship between Satan and god.
https://youtu.be/4_G9awnDCmg[1]
 1. sorry, couldn't get the video to show up properly

Remove the "s" from "https"
Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Isaiah 43:10

Offline wheels5894

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Re: Satan's position
« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2015, 01:26:26 PM »
This is only slightly of tangent but has some relevance about the relationship between Satan and god.
https://youtu.be/4_G9awnDCmg[1]
 1. sorry, couldn't get the video to show up properly

Remove the "s" from "https"
Thanks
No testimony is sufficient to establish a miracle, unless the testimony be of such that its falshood would be more miraculous than the facts it endeavours to establish. (David Hume)

Offline Jstwebbrowsing

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Re: Satan's position
« Reply #9 on: May 09, 2015, 02:45:28 PM »
I don't think Satan believed he would lose.  But now that he has, he is filled with anger because there is no way out of his punishment.
Where is your evidence to back up this statement?

Which statement?
Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Isaiah 43:10

Offline Nam

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Re: Satan's position
« Reply #10 on: May 09, 2015, 02:47:52 PM »
He quoted it, are you blind? It's right there. See it? Apparently not.

-Nam
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Offline natlegend

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Re: Satan's position
« Reply #11 on: May 09, 2015, 02:57:02 PM »
I don't think Satan believed he would lose.  But now that he has, he is filled with anger because there is no way out of his punishment.
Where is your evidence to back up this statement?

Which statement?

Wow. Just... wow.
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

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Offline Jstwebbrowsing

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Re: Satan's position
« Reply #12 on: May 09, 2015, 03:01:32 PM »
Wow is right.  Guess you didn't notice there are three statements in that sentence.
Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Isaiah 43:10

Offline Hamsaka

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Re: Satan's position
« Reply #13 on: May 09, 2015, 03:11:27 PM »
Wow is right.  Guess you didn't notice there are three statements in that sentence.

Do you think he was asking you to provide evidence for only one of the statements, or all of them? 


Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: Satan's position
« Reply #14 on: May 09, 2015, 07:12:58 PM »
JST I wish I had the authority to crown you the King of stupid,but I do not belong to that kingdom.....you will however be considered by me as their King.
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Offline The Gawd

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Re: Satan's position
« Reply #15 on: May 09, 2015, 07:53:41 PM »
JST I wish I had the authority to crown you the King of stupid,but I do not belong to that kingdom.....you will however be considered by me as their King.
I wouldnt say "stupid" just dishonest. By far the most dishonest theist Ive seen here.

Offline Nick

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Re: Satan's position
« Reply #16 on: May 10, 2015, 07:43:46 PM »
Satan got a bum rap.
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

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Offline kcrady

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Re: Satan's position
« Reply #17 on: May 11, 2015, 01:45:00 AM »
I don't think Satan believed he would lose.

Satan had direct experience of Jehovah, his level of power, and the character of his rule.[1]  How could Jehovah's rule have been wondrous and perfect if a third of the beings who lived with him in "Heaven" were willing to risk all to unseat him?  Why would they be willing to fight on against two-to-one odds (counting only the angelic population) instead of surrendering and begging his forgiveness?  Either they think they can win (as you suggest) or the prospect of returning to Jehovah's rule is so horrifying that fighting to the last in the face of certain defeat is preferable to surrender. 

Either way, they know more about Jehovah than you do.  They lived in "Heaven," his supposedly perfect kingdom when it was at its height, before there was any "sin" to  blame its failures on.  And yet...and yet...they rose up against impossible odds, and continue to resist, like the Jews at Masada or the Russians in the Siege of Leningrad.  All you know about Jehovah is what you can read in his equivalent of Pravda, written by people who, like you, have never lived in "Heaven" under his rule.  How can you possibly claim to know they aren't right?

But now that he has,

How do you know this?  According to Matthew 26:64, Jesus claimed that the high priest Caiaphas would see "the Son of Man" (presumably Jesus himself, or was he talking about somebody else? ;) ) "seated on the right hand of Power" (presumably Jehovah) and "coming in the clouds of Heaven."  2,000 years later, Caiaphas' bones have rotted away from the inside of his ossuary, and no Jesus.  Heck, the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society would never have needed to be created in the first place, if Jehovah's original Church, the one (supposedly) started by Jesus and his disciples, had not proven to be a massive failure.  It also took an awful long time for Jehovah to get 'round to it, after the Arians (i.e., the Christians who were right about Jesus not being a second Person of a Trinity) were defeated in the 4th Century, and Christendom went off the rails.  If Jehovah wasn't a match for some Late Roman emperors, how's he gonna beat Satan?

he is filled with anger

You can read his mind?  Or does it say so somewhere in Pravda, and you just accept the claim uncritically?  If the latter, do you just automatically accept that kind of hearsay about other people you don't know as truth?

because there is no way out of his punishment.

What gives you that idea?  2,000 years and counting.
 1. In the same way that Luke Skywalker and his friends had direct experience of the rule of the Galactic Empire.
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Offline Fiji

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Re: Satan's position
« Reply #18 on: May 11, 2015, 05:48:33 AM »
The problem with Satan is different in the quran.
There, Allah condemns Iblis/Satan to hell for refusing to bow to Adam.
Then, Satan goes, hey, why don't you let me lure people away from you and when judgement day comes, you can still toss me into hell.
...
And Allah agrees.
...
WHAT?!?!?!
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Offline kcrady

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Re: Satan's position
« Reply #19 on: May 11, 2015, 11:08:41 AM »
@Fiji:

That sounds like an attempt to reconcile the "Satan" of Judaism (a loyal officer of Yahweh's court whose role is comparable to that of a Grand Inquisitor or chief of the secret police) with the "Satan" of Christianity (enemy of Yahweh, Prince of Darkness, destined for Hell).  Religion is fanfiction. ;)
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Offline jaimehlers

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Re: Satan's position
« Reply #20 on: May 11, 2015, 02:53:48 PM »
(a loyal officer of Yahweh's court whose role is comparable to that of a Grand Inquisitor or chief of the secret police)
You mean like this fine fellow?



Fenris Ulf, Captain of the White Witch's Secret Police.  Interestingly enough, Aslan (the God/Jesus analog of the story) didn't need a secret police at all.
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Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Satan's position
« Reply #21 on: May 11, 2015, 03:28:52 PM »
Where did the sinful desire on the part of god's perfect angels to take over heaven from god's perfect rule come from in the perfect heaven? Some imperfection had to be in there somewhere. And, since god made the universe and heaven and everything, he had to have made the imperfection, too.

If I own a bakery and every time people cut into one of my cakes, they find a big dead cockroach, I cannot throw my hands up and claim that it is not my fault. I am the owner and the buck has to stop with me, especially when customer after customer finds a dead roach, complains to me and I do nothing about it. It should not be a surprise if people start to wonder it I am actually running the bakery at all. I can only blame those stupid employees I hired, trained and supervised for so long before customers stop coming back.

The buck always goes back to god. Otherwise the angels, Satan, demons, natural phenomena like germs or earthquakes, and everyday human beings are all more powerful than god. You cannot have it both ways. God is the most powerful being ever, he is in charge of the universe and everything is his doing.[1] Or god does not control the universe; he is just an observer or bystander who is not in charge: people and angels and tornadoes and disease germs are all more powerful than him. That is the only way god is off the hook for all the screw-ups.

The Pravda analogy is apt--Stalin would say that the Ukrainian peasants should have obeyed him if they did not want to starve. Since they disobeyed him, they clearly wanted to starve. He only gave them what they wanted. So, in effect, they starved themselves. Stalin only cut off the food supplies, thus giving the peasants the long, painful horrible death that they desired. Stalin was such the crowd-pleaser, just a big cuddly Liberace with a black moustache. And a gulag. :P

That is exactly how these believers sound when they talk about how god will only be giving sinful people what they want by sending them to hell to burn forever. Or that people who think a particular religious doctrine is absurd because it sounds crazy as fvck are being misled by Satan. How can it be that Satan seems more convincing, more charismatic, more honest and more attractive than god, somehow amassing way more followers on the eternal facebook page?

How could that make any sense at all to religious folks? Do you guys even listen to yourselves? Or is it lalalalalala fingers in the ears so I can't hear myself?
 1. Including the angel rebellion, Satan messing with A and E and screwing up the world, people being misled into the wrong religions by demons, and all human suffering past present and future.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2015, 03:48:06 PM by nogodsforme »
When all of Cinderella's finery changed back at midnight, why didn't the shoes disappear? What's up with that?

Offline Jstwebbrowsing

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Re: Satan's position
« Reply #22 on: May 11, 2015, 03:32:13 PM »
Satan had direct experience of Jehovah, his level of power, and the character of his rule.[1]  How could Jehovah's rule have been wondrous and perfect if a third of the beings who lived with him in "Heaven" were willing to risk all to unseat him?

It is not about unseating God.  It's about thinking they should have priveleges they were not given.  The fight is about ruling the earth and turning humans against God.  There is no fight because God has allowed him the opportunity to do so along with all the humans that try the same thing.

But Satan and those like him have not succeeded in turning all humans away from God.  Therefore this claim is defeated.  His ultimate defeat came when he was not able to even get Christ to waver in his integrity.

The world under the rulership of Satan has still not managed to even meet the basic needs of mankind such as food, healthcare, housing, peace, etc.  Millions suffer daily under the rulership of Satan and he has had thousands of years to get it right.

Quote
You can read his mind?  Or does it say so somewhere in Pravda, and you just accept the claim uncritically?  If the latter, do you just automatically accept that kind of hearsay about other people you don't know as truth?

I accept what the scriptures say about him.

"But woe to the earth and the sea, because the devil has gone down to you! He is filled with fury, because he knows that his time is short."  (Rev 12:12)

He is angry because he has failed to prove his claims and time is running out.




Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Isaiah 43:10

Offline wheels5894

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Re: Satan's position
« Reply #23 on: May 11, 2015, 04:04:55 PM »
Come on, Jst, if you think that a guy called Satan is ruling the earth where's the direct and definite evidence for this?  A few lines from Stone Age men won't prove anything, or course. If you think this really the case there has to be something that we can point to that shows it and can't have any other explanation.


No testimony is sufficient to establish a miracle, unless the testimony be of such that its falshood would be more miraculous than the facts it endeavours to establish. (David Hume)

Offline kcrady

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Re: Satan's position
« Reply #24 on: May 11, 2015, 05:33:51 PM »
It is not about unseating God.  It's about thinking they should have priveleges they were not given.

OK, 1) Where do you even get this stuff?  2) When, ever in history, has any body of people ever exhibited the kind of die-hard fight-to-the-last resistance against overwhelming odds Satan and his angels are portrayed undertaking, over "privileges"--not privileges they even had that were being taken away mind you, but privileges they thought they'd like to have?

I'd love to see your version of what Satan's recruitment speech must have been like, when he was trying to draw other angels to his side.  "Join me, and together we will get the very best parking spaces on the streets of gold, and servants to groom our wings!  Let us fight on then, outnumbered two to one by Michael and his angels, and Almighty Yahweh himself, defying his threats of eternal damnation, so that in victory we can have nicer executive restrooms!  They may take our lives, but they'll never take our Platinum Cards!"

The fight is about ruling the earth and turning humans against God.

Hahahaha, really?  So if all the humans join Team Satan, what happens?  The creator of a hundred billion galaxies slinks away in humiliated defeat?  That story might have made sense in the days of Ptolmaic Earth-centered cosmology, but in the era of the Hubble Deep Field?

There is no fight because God has allowed him the opportunity to do so along with all the humans that try the same thing.

How long could anyone believe this sort of thing, if they stopped for one second to analyze it the way they would if it was anyone else's religious story?  Let me see if I've got this straight:

1) Satan is able to recruit a third of the angels to rise up with him in rebellion against Jehovah's "perfect" rule, in order to gain access to unspecified "privileges" they didn't already have.

2) After his victory, Jehovah says to a still-defiant Satan, "Oh, you thought you were leading a rebellion?  No, no my dear boy, we were never fighting you.  You and your friends go off and do whatever you like.  Oh, and if you can get all the humans on your side, you win.  But if I win, I'm totally going to punish you for this rebellion." 

"But you just said it's not a rebellion..."   

"Yeah, I'm giving you permission to do it, but I'm still going to punish you for what I'm allowing you to do, instead of stopping you now so the humans can have better lives.  Oh, and I'm absolutely furious about this!" 

"Yeah, me too.  Hey, can I come by later so we can place bets on whether or not your most loyal human will reject you if we murder his family and torture him?" 

"Sure, see you then," Jehovah replies.  "And bring some decent IPA, instead of that Budweiser horse piss you brought last time!"

Makes sense, right?

But Satan and those like him have not succeeded in turning all humans away from God.  Therefore this claim is defeated.

I dunno, if the election were held today, and only Jehovah's Witnesses were counted as truly voting for Jehovah, it would be a MMMAAAAAAAASSSIVE landslide win for Satan.  For that matter, Nicene "Christendom" (i.e., Trinitarian Christianity) stamped out Arianism between 380 (when Emperor Theodosius replaced the last Arian emperor in Rome) and 671, when Grimwald, King of the Lombards, the last Arian king in Europe died.  Arianism was supressed, leaving Christian belief in the Trinity, and the Roman Catholic Church in particular, triumphant.  As far as we can tell, between 671 and 1884 when the Watchtower was founded, Team Jehovah was non-existent.  So Satan won, right?

His ultimate defeat came when he was not able to even get Christ to waver in his integrity.

Why did he need to recruit Jesus/Michael?  I thought you just said it was about getting all the humans on his side.

The world under the rulership of Satan has still not managed to even meet the basic needs of mankind such as food, healthcare, housing, peace, etc.  Millions suffer daily under the rulership of Satan and he has had thousands of years to get it right.

So...Satan's victory condition is to turn the world into a utopian playland, a Planet Sweden with a Star Trek economy and a bright future.  Remind me again why we're supposed to be opposing him in this?

I accept what the scriptures say about him.

And if you'd lived in Soviet Russia, you'd have believed that Lysenko's theories and collectivized agriculture could produce three crops a year.  It says so right here in the latest issue of Pravda!

"But woe to the earth and the sea, because the devil has gone down to you! He is filled with fury, because he knows that his time is short."  (Rev 12:12)

He is angry because he has failed to prove his claims and time is running out.

Aaaaaand, you've failed to notice that the passage you cite was written two. thousand. years ago.

Satan: "My time is short!  I am sooooo angry!"

---centuries pass---

Satan: "...What was I mad about again?"

Asmodeus (yawning from boredom): "Wasn't it something about Jehovah coming after us Real Soon Now?"

Satan:  "Oh yeah, that!  Hahaha.  I'm bored of this place.  Screw it, let's go plasma-surfing in the Crab Nebula."

Asmodeus: "I'm there!  Brofist!"
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Offline jaimehlers

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Re: Satan's position
« Reply #25 on: May 11, 2015, 05:53:45 PM »
I wonder if Jst has realized why he's failing to convince people who actually examine his religion and think critically about it.

Honestly, why would a being capable of creating galaxies care in the slightest about faith, prayer, and worship from a bunch of mites which eventually sprung up on a single planet orbiting a single star in a single one of those galaxies?
Nullus In Verba, aka "Take nobody's word for it!"  If you can't show it, then you don't know it.

Offline YRM_DM

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Re: Satan's position
« Reply #26 on: May 11, 2015, 06:01:04 PM »
I don't think Satan believed he would lose.  But now that he has, he is filled with anger because there is no way out of his punishment.

Let's review the situation for a second.

Satan used to be an angel right?  So, he must have had some good qualities?   Or did God create the heavens and angels rotten when he first did it?

But, let's say that Satan is like Hitler, even though he kills far less people in the Bible than God does.

Let's say that president Franklin D Roosevelt is viewed as a pretty good guy... not as good as God, but, good.

Now Hitler is awful and evil, and didn't expect he would lose.   Let's say that Franklin D Roosevelt had lived to the end of the war, and we captured Hitler.

Are you with me?

FDR captures Hitler... got it?

Let's now imagine that FDR takes the worst of the Nazi Death Camps.   Let's say that FDR turns the heat up to barely survivable levels.  The food is scarce and rotten.  Everyone who lives in this camp is covered in plague and tortured, but, he provides just enough that they won't die...

So FDR smites Hitler into this camp, torturing him... and then puts Hitler in charge of the camp.   FDR lets Hitler mail and televise and advertise his world view to the entire planet, and, anyone who is tempted by that world view, FDR hands over to Hitler to torture forever.

FDR gleefully informs the american public that he's making sure Hitler suffers unimaginably, and, anyone who likes Hitler better than FDR will be handed over to Hitler to suffer too!   What a good system.

Wouldn't you start to be uncomfortable that FDR was really the good guy in this scenario?

Or wouldn't you think he was acting pretty much exactly LIKE Hitler?   By making a death camp, with torture... and sending people there that he felt were evil?   Where there was no chance of anyone ever improving?   Where the punishment had no point at all, except for to terrify people?

Why is God good, if God can act like the worst despots in the history of the world?
You can't spell BELIEVE without LIE...  and a few other letters.  B and E and V and I think E.

Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: Satan's position
« Reply #27 on: May 11, 2015, 06:22:32 PM »
Satan had direct experience of Jehovah, his level of power, and the character of his rule.[1]  How could Jehovah's rule have been wondrous and perfect if a third of the beings who lived with him in "Heaven" were willing to risk all to unseat him?

It is not about unseating God.  It's about thinking they should have priveleges they were not given.  The fight is about ruling the earth and turning humans against God.  There is no fight because God has allowed him the opportunity to do so along with all the humans that try the same thing.

But Satan and those like him have not succeeded in turning all humans away from God.  Therefore this claim is defeated.  His ultimate defeat came when he was not able to even get Christ to waver in his integrity.

The world under the rulership of Satan has still not managed to even meet the basic needs of mankind such as food, healthcare, housing, peace, etc.  Millions suffer daily under the rulership of Satan and he has had thousands of years to get it right.

Quote
You can read his mind?  Or does it say so somewhere in Pravda, and you just accept the claim uncritically?  If the latter, do you just automatically accept that kind of hearsay about other people you don't know as truth?

I accept what the scriptures say about him.

"But woe to the earth and the sea, because the devil has gone down to you! He is filled with fury, because he knows that his time is short."  (Rev 12:12)

He is angry because he has failed to prove his claims and time is running out.
How many generations have lived and died since Jesus promised his early followers he would return before they tasted death? Why have you NOT questioned those passages? 2000+ Years if what about 1200 generations give or take 100......why do you pick and chose passages that are 100% correct in your eyes and ignore passages that could NOT possibly be correct?
« Last Edit: May 11, 2015, 06:32:50 PM by 12 Monkeys »
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Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: Satan's position
« Reply #28 on: May 11, 2015, 06:30:07 PM »
I don't think Satan believed he would lose.  But now that he has, he is filled with anger because there is no way out of his punishment.

Let's review the situation for a second.

Satan used to be an angel right?  So, he must have had some good qualities?   Or did God create the heavens and angels rotten when he first did it?

But, let's say that Satan is like Hitler, even though he kills far less people in the Bible than God does.

Let's say that president Franklin D Roosevelt is viewed as a pretty good guy... not as good as God, but, good.

Now Hitler is awful and evil, and didn't expect he would lose.   Let's say that Franklin D Roosevelt had lived to the end of the war, and we captured Hitler.

Are you with me?

FDR captures Hitler... got it?

Let's now imagine that FDR takes the worst of the Nazi Death Camps.   Let's say that FDR turns the heat up to barely survivable levels.  The food is scarce and rotten.  Everyone who lives in this camp is covered in plague and tortured, but, he provides just enough that they won't die...

So FDR smites Hitler into this camp, torturing him... and then puts Hitler in charge of the camp.   FDR lets Hitler mail and televise and advertise his world view to the entire planet, and, anyone who is tempted by that world view, FDR hands over to Hitler to torture forever.

FDR gleefully informs the american public that he's making sure Hitler suffers unimaginably, and, anyone who likes Hitler better than FDR will be handed over to Hitler to suffer too!   What a good system.

Wouldn't you start to be uncomfortable that FDR was really the good guy in this scenario?

Or wouldn't you think he was acting pretty much exactly LIKE Hitler?   By making a death camp, with torture... and sending people there that he felt were evil?   Where there was no chance of anyone ever improving?   Where the punishment had no point at all, except for to terrify people?

Why is God good, if God can act like the worst despots in the history of the world?
C'mon guy,Satan did all God's dirty work,who else would know God's desires or weakness better than Satan? This God guy couldn't even create his way out of a wet paper bag,never mind be an equal to Satan.
There's no right there's no wrong,there's just popular opinion (Brad Pitt as Jeffery Goines in 12 monkeys)