Author Topic: Christians: a moral question  (Read 5342 times)

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Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Christians: a moral question
« Reply #58 on: March 12, 2015, 07:48:35 PM »
Even the worse hard-core criminal won't generally commit a crime while the police are watching, because, yes, jail is real and they do not want to go there. That is normal-- some people will act up when no cop is around, but nearly everyone behaves when being watched by someone in authority.

Which is the more effective deterrent: visible/tangible police officers or invisible/intangible "gods"?

Jail analogies fail just as hard as parenting ones.

How about non-religious, non-mythical ways to guide people's behavior without threatening them with eternal torture? How about tangible social sanctions, like cultural values of respect for elderly or not wanting to shame your family? How about a good education system, rational attitudes about sex and drugs and a comprehensive social welfare system? Those seem to work really well in Japan and Scandinavia where there are few security guards or police, no cameras watching people all the time and violent crime rates so low that some communities are closing prisons.

Religion has a terrible track record of improving people's lives on a large scale. Everyone in every religion knows a handful of individual success stories and touts those. But no religion is as successful across the board as rational social welfare policies that work, amazingly, even in the absence of threatening people with eternal hellfire. Rational social policies make it so people are less likely to become mentally ill without treatment, or homeless or impoverished, desperate and hopeless-- and just decide that everyone is on their own, nobody gives a sh!t so why not snatch a purse or steal a car?

I know a lot of young people raised in very religious homes, told from birth that they were worthless sinners, about how god was always watching them and if they screwed up they were heading to hell--either Christian or Muslim. Did not stop them from getting into anonymous promiscuity, drugs, crime, violence, self-destructive behavior of all kinds. Even though Jesus, or Jehovah or Allah was watching them 24-7. Some ended up in jail where, in the US nowadays, there are few services other than more religious teachings. The same stuff that did not prevent the problems to begin with are now offered as the only cure for the problems.[1]

It is just so stupid.  :(
 1. A Christian friend told me that many people come out of jail religious but unable to find work due to their criminal records and lack of job skills. So, they go to church, get good at telling their "god saved me from the gangs and turned my life around" story and eventually become pastors! She added, without irony, that nobody but a church would hire some of these people:? :o :P
When all of Cinderella's finery changed back at midnight, why didn't the shoes disappear? What's up with that?

Offline jetson

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Re: Christians: a moral question
« Reply #59 on: March 12, 2015, 08:14:07 PM »


Have you taken even a single second to consider the fact that a god who supposedly created the entire universe, and everything in it, somehow needs an innocent lamb to be killed by humans? Does that fact alone not register in your head as extremely bizarre?

The creator of the universe is pleased by the smell of burnt animal flesh, and they must be clean and "innocent"? WTF is an innocent lamb in the first place? Are you seriously unable to consider that this stuff is based on pure human ignorance and fear of the unknown?



I am not sure where you come up with these "facts" about God. How do you know that God wouldn't require a sacrifice? How do you know God can't enjoy certain things in His universe? Statements like yours require omniscience to know the mind of God.

Some of you guys sure seem to know how a God (you don't believe exists) would act and do certain things. It truly boggles my mind where you come up with this stuff.

I don't know a damn thing about the god of the Bible. But I have read the Bible, have you? Perhaps you can set me straight here on whatever "facts" I got wrong? I'm willing to learn.

Let me know if you don't think God, from the Bible, likes the smell of burnt animal flesh, and provide some scripture to refute that fact. Let me know if you refute the fact that humans regularly sacrificed "clean" and "innocent" animals to please the god of the Bible, and provide some scripture that refutes that fact.

Something tells me this will most certainly be mind-boggling.

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Christians: a moral question
« Reply #60 on: March 12, 2015, 08:51:43 PM »
The question skeptic needs to answer for himself if not for us, is how anyone can claim to know anything at all about a god who does not want to be known.

Because if he wanted to be known, he would be. Not just by the lucky handful who were born at the right time in the right culture to the right parents who happened to pick the right religion. By everyone, equally, so all could make a free will choice to love him or not, worship him or not, obey him or not. If he is not known by everyone, equally, he is choosing to make himself known to some and not to others, based on some non-obvious criteria of his own.

Apparently this god is letting a select few in on the secret while hiding and letting most people all throughout history and in most every culture choose wrong gods, false gods, demons or no gods at all. And then he will still supposedly judge everyone and damn some to hell and reward some with heaven, according to the people who claim to know something about this god. That right there, that playing favorites while hiding from most of humanity--and then punishing the losers forever-- tells me all I need to know, really.

If the majority of people on the planet are born just to be tricked and misled, then tortured forever, this god is not worth my time or attention.

Stick a fork in Christianity. It is way past done.
When all of Cinderella's finery changed back at midnight, why didn't the shoes disappear? What's up with that?