Author Topic: Understanding atheism part 2  (Read 7495 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline One Above All

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 14633
  • Darwins +604/-62
  • Supreme ruler of the multiverse; All In One
Re: Understanding atheism part 2
« Reply #29 on: March 13, 2015, 01:20:34 PM »


Well, there's your opinion, and then there's the truth. For some bizarre reason[1], the two almost never seem to match.
 1. We really need a sarcasm font or something.

So this means you DO believe there was a mind around billions of years ago?

What type of mind?

My beliefs are not relevant, since they're not tied to my atheism. They're also not tied to atheism in general.
This is why you didn't disappoint me. You always deliver (wrong information, if not outright lies).
My names are many, yet I am One.
-Orion, son of Fire and Light, Sol Invictus.

Religions need books because they don't have gods.

Discord: https://discord.gg/Hhz7Ff2

Offline One Above All

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 14633
  • Darwins +604/-62
  • Supreme ruler of the multiverse; All In One
Re: Understanding atheism part 2
« Reply #30 on: March 13, 2015, 01:33:25 PM »
So you are saying that the statement "atheists believe things can exist with no minds around" is wrong/a lie?

If by "atheists" you mean all atheists, then yes. If by "atheists" you mean some atheists, then no. However, if you mean some atheists, then you could replace the word "atheists" by almost any noun in the English language, and it'd still be right.
My names are many, yet I am One.
-Orion, son of Fire and Light, Sol Invictus.

Religions need books because they don't have gods.

Discord: https://discord.gg/Hhz7Ff2

Offline Defiance

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1767
  • Darwins +92/-5
  • Gender: Male
  • Can't be mad at something that doesn't exist.
Re: Understanding atheism part 2
« Reply #31 on: March 13, 2015, 04:10:49 PM »
Dear Skeptic,

I'm due to take an AP test on Introductory Biology for college in May.

I suggest you don't start any arguments in that science. Thanks.
Q: Why are quantum physicists bad lovers? A: Because when they find the position, they can't find the momentum, and when they have the momentum, they can't find the position.

source: http://www.jokes4us.com/miscellaneousjokes/schooljokes/physicsjokes.html

Offline Foxy Freedom

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 2931
  • Darwins +320/-14
  • Why is it so difficult to say you don't know?
    • Foxy Freedom on Doctor Who
Re: Understanding atheism part 2
« Reply #32 on: March 13, 2015, 06:10:28 PM »
I see evidence of God everywhere I look.

That should be a warning to you that you see what you want to see. No one else in the world sees the same evidence for the same god as you do.
The Foxy Freedom antitheist website is http://the6antitheist6guide6.blogspot.co.uk

The 2nd edition of the free ebook Devil or Delusion ? The danger of Christianity to Democracy Freedom and Science.       http://t.co/2d1KcJ9V

Offline jaimehlers

  • Global Moderator
  • ******
  • Posts: 8927
  • Darwins +1130/-27
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: Understanding atheism part 2
« Reply #33 on: March 13, 2015, 08:22:30 PM »
So you are saying that the statement "atheists believe things can exist with no minds around" is wrong/a lie?
I think there is no basis for either saying that things need a mind to exist, or saying that they do not need a mind to exist.  There is simply not enough information to tell which is right.  This is why you end up with such totally different beliefs, because each person comes up with their own ideas based on strictly limited information, and then holds to them (unless they're taught how to think critically, and sometimes not even then).
Nullus In Verba, aka "Take nobody's word for it!"  If you can't show it, then you don't know it.

Offline Defiance

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1767
  • Darwins +92/-5
  • Gender: Male
  • Can't be mad at something that doesn't exist.
Re: Understanding atheism part 2
« Reply #34 on: March 13, 2015, 09:07:11 PM »
So you are saying that the statement "atheists believe things can exist with no minds around" is wrong/a lie?
I think there is no basis for either saying that things need a mind to exist, or saying that they do not need a mind to exist.  There is simply not enough information to tell which is right.  This is why you end up with such totally different beliefs, because each person comes up with their own ideas based on strictly limited information, and then holds to them (unless they're taught how to think critically, and sometimes not even then).

But wait, why can't we conclusively say that existence of minds and existence of other things in the universe is unrelated? That one doesn't depend on the other? Why must you concede and say "there's not enough info"?

Until it's proven that the existence of things is dependent on the existence of minds, why can't we just toss this aside without having to concede to "maybe, maybe not"?
Q: Why are quantum physicists bad lovers? A: Because when they find the position, they can't find the momentum, and when they have the momentum, they can't find the position.

source: http://www.jokes4us.com/miscellaneousjokes/schooljokes/physicsjokes.html

Offline Dante

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 2387
  • Darwins +95/-11
  • Gender: Male
  • Hedonist Extraordinaire
Re: Understanding atheism part 2
« Reply #35 on: March 13, 2015, 09:08:12 PM »
I do wonder if deep down, atheists really do believe but try to convince themselves that they don't believe. It's hard for me to get into their heads because I see evidence of God everywhere I look.

You know what skep? I believe you, and I understand. You see it as you see it, and can't fathom how we atheists could possibly view it differently.

But, you're wrong on that point. And I'll tell you why.

Because we think the same thing. We do. We really can't understand why you, collective you, don't see it our way! It's obvious to us, as obvious as god belief is to you. Except we dont believe there are gods.

The problem each of us rail against, you and I, is that while you see evidence of a god everywhere, we see none anywhere. So, we think you delusional, and you think us the same. That's it, in a nutshell, is it not?

The other issue is, I believe, that you cannot accept that this actually is how we are. We really are evidence based thinkers. We don't need, in our mental condition, an overseer of higher power. We are content to accept that we are animals that, by mere happenstance, are lucky enough to have the opportunity to experience life on a sentient level.

You don't believe that tho. You think we were created for a purpose, not of our own volition. That's all it boils down to, right? We have our purpose, as we believe. Or, we serve your god's purpose, you believe. Correct?

So the question remains.......how do you convince us that you're correct?
« Last Edit: March 13, 2015, 09:12:43 PM by Dante »
Actually it doesn't. One could conceivably be all-powerful but not exceptionally intelligent.

Offline Defiance

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1767
  • Darwins +92/-5
  • Gender: Male
  • Can't be mad at something that doesn't exist.
Re: Understanding atheism part 2
« Reply #36 on: March 13, 2015, 09:18:15 PM »
Ahem... Produce the god and end the debate, maybe?
Q: Why are quantum physicists bad lovers? A: Because when they find the position, they can't find the momentum, and when they have the momentum, they can't find the position.

source: http://www.jokes4us.com/miscellaneousjokes/schooljokes/physicsjokes.html

Offline jaimehlers

  • Global Moderator
  • ******
  • Posts: 8927
  • Darwins +1130/-27
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: Understanding atheism part 2
« Reply #37 on: March 13, 2015, 09:45:14 PM »
But wait, why can't we conclusively say that existence of minds and existence of other things in the universe is unrelated? That one doesn't depend on the other? Why must you concede and say "there's not enough info"?
Because you can't prove a negative.  Although, that doesn't mean you have to concede that they have a point.  History is replete with examples where people had wrong ideas which were impossible to prove wrong at the time.

Quote from: Defiance
Until it's proven that the existence of things is dependent on the existence of minds, why can't we just toss this aside without having to concede to "maybe, maybe not"?
Because closing your mind to something, even something that seems totally absurd, is not a good approach unless you can show it to be wrong.  That doesn't mean you have to give it credence.  It just means that making assumptions is bad.
Nullus In Verba, aka "Take nobody's word for it!"  If you can't show it, then you don't know it.

Offline Foxy Freedom

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 2931
  • Darwins +320/-14
  • Why is it so difficult to say you don't know?
    • Foxy Freedom on Doctor Who
Re: Understanding atheism part 2
« Reply #38 on: March 13, 2015, 10:23:00 PM »
I think there is no basis for either saying that things need a mind to exist, or saying that they do not need a mind to exist.  There is simply not enough information to tell which is right.

Yes, there is. Natural things in the universe are not generated by concepts, they are not planned, nor designed for any purpose. Natural things in the universe are statistical freaks, which other statistical freaks, called humans, sometimes make use of, to create manufactured freaks which the universe statistically destroys, so it is the universe's fault that you have to buy insurance on your car and other stuff.

Unless you want to blame the Wheel God or the Engine God, or Yahweh for thinking of adding that hairline fracture to your car engine, which broke and caused your traffic accident. Yes, a god would have to think about a lot of faulty manufactured products, and more are being made all the time, so that must be really filling his mind with junk products and junk food.

There is also the law of thermodynamics which would be broken when chairs and tables come into existence whenever you want to eat your junk food which your god imagined for you to give you your statistical heart attack or your statistical cancer, a defect your god kindly though of for you.

You are also assuming monotheism. Why assume that only one god is thinking of the universe? Some parts of the universe have never interacted with each other at the large scale. On the other hand, every random particle which comes into existence does it own thing so you could say that there are millions and billions of gods each pushing their own elementary particle around. Billions of little gods riding elementary particles makes more sense than one god who is unable to control his own thoughts of a chaotic statistical universe.

You are also assuming that a mind exists without a brain, which is without a universe, which is without time and space, which is bullshit.
The Foxy Freedom antitheist website is http://the6antitheist6guide6.blogspot.co.uk

The 2nd edition of the free ebook Devil or Delusion ? The danger of Christianity to Democracy Freedom and Science.       http://t.co/2d1KcJ9V

Offline Merlin

  • Graduate
  • ****
  • Posts: 272
  • Darwins +46/-1
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: Understanding atheism part 2
« Reply #39 on: March 14, 2015, 09:54:38 AM »
Folks, does it really have to be this complicated? 
"Can anything exist without a mind to know about it?" seems to be the question.

Scientists know the age of this earth.  They also know that it is older than 'minds' which came along much later.

Yahweh was invented much later than the earth or the first minds.  So, he is not as old as the earth.

So it would appear that things can exist without minds to perceive them.

Tell me what i am missing.  :?
"True Christians(tm) do not say [insert christian profanity here]." - Merlin

Offline ParkingPlaces

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 7739
  • Darwins +1176/-6
  • Gender: Male
  • This space for rent
Re: Understanding atheism part 2
« Reply #40 on: March 14, 2015, 09:58:28 AM »
So you are saying that the statement "atheists believe things can exist with no minds around" is wrong/a lie?

No, it is not a lie. It is a horrible redefinition of various scientific stances on reality. It emphasizes a non-issue. It is like saying that streets exist for the sole purpose of killing jaywalkers.

Nowhere in any scientific tome will you ever find the phrase "And these various natural phenomena exist even when there are no minds to perceive them, which we know is incredible, but it is theoretically possible minds to be left out of the process. At least under laboratory conditions".

If it isn't an issue, there is no need to to make a statement about it, let alone use it as the basis for an entire argument.

Note to Merlin: You're not missing anything. But Skep thinks that god's mind has to exist for anything else to exist. Because big 'h' he has to perceive it or it can't be. At least that's what I think Skep is over-implying.
What I lack in sophistication I make up for with other shortcomings.

Offline Defiance

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1767
  • Darwins +92/-5
  • Gender: Male
  • Can't be mad at something that doesn't exist.
Re: Understanding atheism part 2
« Reply #41 on: March 14, 2015, 10:15:48 AM »
Folks, does it really have to be this complicated? 
"Can anything exist without a mind to know about it?" seems to be the question.

Scientists know the age of this earth.  They also know that it is older than 'minds' which came along much later.

Yahweh was invented much later than the earth or the first minds.  So, he is not as old as the earth.

So it would appear that things can exist without minds to perceive them.

Tell me what i am missing.  :?

Exactly, this is what I was confused about.

Jaime, since scientists weren't around back then, and the universe still existed, doesn't that mean we don't need to think about it?
Q: Why are quantum physicists bad lovers? A: Because when they find the position, they can't find the momentum, and when they have the momentum, they can't find the position.

source: http://www.jokes4us.com/miscellaneousjokes/schooljokes/physicsjokes.html

Offline jaimehlers

  • Global Moderator
  • ******
  • Posts: 8927
  • Darwins +1130/-27
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: Understanding atheism part 2
« Reply #42 on: March 14, 2015, 12:47:53 PM »
Jaime, since scientists weren't around back then, and the universe still existed, doesn't that mean we don't need to think about it?
I'm not even sure what you're asking, to be honest.

The point I was trying to make is that there's not really any point in discussing "things need minds to exist" until someone shows actual evidence, some basis in fact, for justifying it, because until then, it's pure speculation[1].  Dismissing it tends to make the person arguing for it push harder, and it's senseless to agree with it when there's no facts to justify it.
 1. which, after all, can be logical
Nullus In Verba, aka "Take nobody's word for it!"  If you can't show it, then you don't know it.

Offline Foxy Freedom

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 2931
  • Darwins +320/-14
  • Why is it so difficult to say you don't know?
    • Foxy Freedom on Doctor Who
Re: Understanding atheism part 2
« Reply #43 on: March 14, 2015, 12:48:27 PM »
Folks, does it really have to be this complicated? 
"Can anything exist without a mind to know about it?" seems to be the question.

Scientists know the age of this earth.  They also know that it is older than 'minds' which came along much later.

Yahweh was invented much later than the earth or the first minds.  So, he is not as old as the earth.

So it would appear that things can exist without minds to perceive them.

Tell me what i am missing:?

Right, it is not difficult at all. The universe is full of stuff which cannot be observed, but if you measure the geometry of the universe, it is the way it is mostly because of the stuff which cannot be observed.

Dark matter, dark energy and some particles which people have tried to find but have not, they are all important to make the universe what it is.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2015, 12:53:52 PM by Foxy Freedom »
The Foxy Freedom antitheist website is http://the6antitheist6guide6.blogspot.co.uk

The 2nd edition of the free ebook Devil or Delusion ? The danger of Christianity to Democracy Freedom and Science.       http://t.co/2d1KcJ9V

Offline Defiance

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1767
  • Darwins +92/-5
  • Gender: Male
  • Can't be mad at something that doesn't exist.
Re: Understanding atheism part 2
« Reply #44 on: March 14, 2015, 04:17:10 PM »
Jaime, since scientists weren't around back then, and the universe still existed, doesn't that mean we don't need to think about it?
I'm not even sure what you're asking, to be honest.

The point I was trying to make is that there's not really any point in discussing "things need minds to exist" until someone shows actual evidence, some basis in fact, for justifying it, because until then, it's pure speculation[1].  Dismissing it tends to make the person arguing for it push harder, and it's senseless to agree with it when there's no facts to justify it.
 1. which, after all, can be logical
But that's what I said:
"Until it's proven that the existence of things is dependent on the existence of minds, why can't we just toss this aside without having to concede to "maybe, maybe not"?"
Q: Why are quantum physicists bad lovers? A: Because when they find the position, they can't find the momentum, and when they have the momentum, they can't find the position.

source: http://www.jokes4us.com/miscellaneousjokes/schooljokes/physicsjokes.html

Offline jaimehlers

  • Global Moderator
  • ******
  • Posts: 8927
  • Darwins +1130/-27
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: Understanding atheism part 2
« Reply #45 on: March 14, 2015, 08:54:12 PM »
"Tossing it aside" implies dismissing it.
Nullus In Verba, aka "Take nobody's word for it!"  If you can't show it, then you don't know it.

Offline The Gawd

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1654
  • Darwins +147/-6
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: Understanding atheism part 2
« Reply #46 on: March 14, 2015, 09:08:16 PM »
Well the way to determine if shit exists without minds to consider them is to determine the age of shit... and compare it to the age of human minds. If shit has been around longer than human brains then obviously no brain is needed in order for shit to exist. Problem solved.

Offline Azdgari

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 14161
  • Darwins +475/-40
  • Gender: Male
Re: Understanding atheism part 2
« Reply #47 on: March 14, 2015, 11:27:51 PM »
^^ Ahh, but what if human minds have created it with the illusion of age?  :o
I always say what I mean. But sometimes I'm a sarcastic prick whose tone can't be properly communicated via text.

Offline The Gawd

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1654
  • Darwins +147/-6
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: Understanding atheism part 2
« Reply #48 on: March 15, 2015, 02:40:06 AM »
^^ Ahh, but what if human minds have created it with the illusion of age?  :o
But what if human minds didnt:o

Offline Azdgari

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 14161
  • Darwins +475/-40
  • Gender: Male
Re: Understanding atheism part 2
« Reply #49 on: March 15, 2015, 05:54:47 AM »
I'm just pointing out that the appearance of age isn't an absolute disproof to these people.
I always say what I mean. But sometimes I'm a sarcastic prick whose tone can't be properly communicated via text.

Offline Foxy Freedom

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 2931
  • Darwins +320/-14
  • Why is it so difficult to say you don't know?
    • Foxy Freedom on Doctor Who
Re: Understanding atheism part 2
« Reply #50 on: March 15, 2015, 07:28:27 AM »
What does it mean to observe the universe?

An atom emits radiation which reaches another atom in your eye. This atom interacts with the radiation and produces an electrical signal which is sent to your brain and your brain forms a picture. Whenever you observe something you are interacting with the universe. The atoms which observe the universe do not have to be in your eye, they can be independent atoms in the universe observing each other. There was a theory in physics called transmission theory which tried to explain the universe by saying that the universe has to be observed to exist. It was proved wrong by Richard Feynman while he was working on ideas for his Phd.

We also know that there are many things in the universe which we cannot see but which determine the nature of the universe.

Why are there things we cannot see? It is because we do not interact with them. An observation is an interaction.

What about a god observing the universe? If any gods want to observe the universe, there has to be an interaction and the gods have to have similar natures to the universe. This was a possible explanation for ignorant people in Iron Age Israel who imagined a sort of superhuman in the image of men who lived on mountains and was a personfied force of nature. For modern christians this explanation is not possible so they try to use a definition of a god outside of time and space which cannot be observed. This type of god cannot exist and cannot know that the universe exists.

The modern christian god is the self contradictory delusion in the mind of the believer needing to explain too much. It is exactly the same mistake of the christian who needs the soul to control the brain but not interact with universe. Similary their god interacts with the universe but doesn't interact with the universe. The god in the mind of a christian is nothing more than an ignorant person's need for identity and control in a world they do not understand. It is not based on rationality but on emotional need.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2015, 07:32:11 AM by Foxy Freedom »
The Foxy Freedom antitheist website is http://the6antitheist6guide6.blogspot.co.uk

The 2nd edition of the free ebook Devil or Delusion ? The danger of Christianity to Democracy Freedom and Science.       http://t.co/2d1KcJ9V

Offline Boots

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1784
  • Darwins +172/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • Living the Dream
Re: Understanding atheism part 2
« Reply #51 on: March 16, 2015, 08:13:22 AM »
You all realize that Skep has effectively derailed this thread with the whole question of "can sh1te exist without minds?"  (which, truth be told, seems like a totally inane question to me...)
...religion is simply tribalism with a side order of philosophical wankery, and occasionally a baseball bat to smash...anyone who doesn't show...deference to the tribe's chosen totem.

~Astreja

To not believe in god is to know that it falls to us to make the world a better place.

~Sam Harris

Offline Jag

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 3905
  • Darwins +518/-9
  • Gender: Female
  • Official WWGHA Harpy, Ex-rosary squad
Re: Understanding atheism part 2
« Reply #52 on: March 16, 2015, 08:23:04 AM »
You all realize that Skep has effectively derailed this thread ...

As he attempts to do in every thread he participate in.
"Tell people that there's an invisible man in the sky that created the entire universe and the majority believe you. Tell them the paint is wet, and they have to touch it to be sure." ~George Carlin

Offline skeptic54768

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 4944
  • Darwins +140/-653
  • Gender: Male
  • Christianity is the most beautiful religion.
Re: Understanding atheism part 2
« Reply #53 on: March 16, 2015, 01:09:39 PM »
You all realize that Skep has effectively derailed this thread with the whole question of "can sh1te exist without minds?"  (which, truth be told, seems like a totally inane question to me...)

it is not even close to being inane. The fact is that we only know things through minds. We have never been able to study something without using minds. Therefore, it's reasonable to conclude that there is an eternal mind that has always been in existence to observe everything.

It is too much of a leap of faith to go from "We only know things through minds" to "things existed without minds." How can you know what exists without minds? 
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline skeptic54768

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 4944
  • Darwins +140/-653
  • Gender: Male
  • Christianity is the most beautiful religion.
Re: Understanding atheism part 2
« Reply #54 on: March 16, 2015, 01:15:43 PM »
Ahem... Produce the god and end the debate, maybe?

You never said what you wanted to see. What should we produce for you? God is not a gumball machine where every demand is met. So if you say something like, "I want God to make it rain a billion dollars into my backyard," it probably won't be happening.

These silly "tests of God" are a slap in His face. Creating a whole universe is not good enough for you guys. You want to see God do silly things.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline Defiance

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1767
  • Darwins +92/-5
  • Gender: Male
  • Can't be mad at something that doesn't exist.
Re: Understanding atheism part 2
« Reply #55 on: March 16, 2015, 01:48:25 PM »
Simple question. Answer it with a simple yes or no. It's not a trick.

Can your god do anything?
Q: Why are quantum physicists bad lovers? A: Because when they find the position, they can't find the momentum, and when they have the momentum, they can't find the position.

source: http://www.jokes4us.com/miscellaneousjokes/schooljokes/physicsjokes.html

Offline Boots

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1784
  • Darwins +172/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • Living the Dream
Re: Understanding atheism part 2
« Reply #56 on: March 16, 2015, 01:51:57 PM »
You all realize that Skep has effectively derailed this thread with the whole question of "can sh1te exist without minds?"  (which, truth be told, seems like a totally inane question to me...)

it is not even close to being inane. The fact is that we only know things through minds. We have never been able to study something without using minds. Therefore, it's reasonable to conclude that there is an eternal mind that has always been in existence to observe everything.

It is in no way reasonable to conclude this.  i don't even understand how you can concoct this non-sequitur.  it's so utterly self-centered as to be, well, inane.  did the planet Saturn spring into existance because Gallileo observed it?

Quote
It is too much of a leap of faith to go from "We only know things through minds" to "things existed without minds." How can you know what exists without minds?

Yes, yes it is.  It is akin to a 6-month-old thinking that no one can see him because he's covering his eyes.

Quote
Creating a whole universe is not good enough for you guys. You want to see God do silly things.

first, you haven't shown that your deity created anything. Second, we want to see your deity to SOMEthing.  ANYthing.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2015, 03:46:49 PM by Boots »
...religion is simply tribalism with a side order of philosophical wankery, and occasionally a baseball bat to smash...anyone who doesn't show...deference to the tribe's chosen totem.

~Astreja

To not believe in god is to know that it falls to us to make the world a better place.

~Sam Harris

Offline nogodsforme

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 11187
  • Darwins +1865/-9
  • Gender: Female
  • Jehovah's Witness Protection Program
Re: Understanding atheism part 2
« Reply #57 on: March 16, 2015, 02:50:09 PM »
Who here has asked that god rain money into their yard to prove his existence? In fact, we have been asking for a few weeks now, that god just needs to appear in some convincing form so everyone knows about him equally. Not do anything silly as a test. Just show up and be god. That should not be hard for a being who made an entire universe out of nothing. Simply show up.

The name of this site is not silly, either. It asks a very serious question, about people who have a problem that is anything but silly. Amputated limbs, AIDS, Ebola, famine, tsunamis, terrorism and child abuse are some of the things that god could fix, if he wanted to. Those are not trivial or silly problems. Since they keep happening, god must not be fixing them.

Since he does not fix them, he does not want them fixed. Everything is god's will, right? Some people even add in evil spirits and demons to try to explain why god is not fixing those things. The evil spirits are also part of god's will. That raises more mind-bending questions about why we should think god is a good guy. If he wants to fix the problems, but can't do these things, he is not really a very powerful god.[1]

Or god does not exist, which explains everything about his inability to show up, his invisibility, his immaterialness, and his lack of positive behavior of any kind in a very straightforward manner.
 1. In either case, we have to rely on our flawed human selves to deal with these things, slowly and painfully as people continue to suffer.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2015, 02:52:29 PM by nogodsforme »
When all of Cinderella's finery changed back at midnight, why didn't the shoes disappear? What's up with that?