Author Topic: Pastor stops funeral because deceased was lesbian...  (Read 18618 times)

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Online BibleStudent

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Re: Pastor stops funeral because deceased was lesbian...
« Reply #174 on: January 26, 2015, 06:20:10 PM »
The purpose of the article I linked to was not meant to prompt a discussion about persecution. It was intended as a response to the comment that people should mind their f'ing business.
Seems to me that the Christians referred to in that article you linked should have minded their business.  You know, the ACTUAL business they ran.  It might have worked out a bit better if they'd not tried to use their customers' sexual orientation as an excuse to exclude them.

Or are you trying to argue that, when refused service because of an owner's religious beliefs, gay couples should have meekly accepted being treated so abhorrently?  The business of those Christians was to provide wedding services, and it was precisely their refusal to mind their business that got them in trouble to begin with.

Why should a business owner be forced to compromise his religious beliefs?

Instead of just respecting those beliefs and moving onto a business that would meet their needs, these LGBT citizens felt it was more important to create a highly visible and tense situation which ultimately led to the business owners losing their livelihood and their ability to employ people and provide financial support for their families and the community.

If people should mind their f'ing business when it comes to the homosexual, then why shouldn't people mind their f'ing business when it comes to the Christian? I have it heard said many, many times that Christians can practice their faith as long as they don't cram it down the throats of the non-theist. Well, how can we practice our faith if the LGBT community is going to force their sinful ways down the throats of Christians? Our faith is sacred....it is disrespectful and highly unsympathetic to demand that we lower our shield and succumb to doing something that we know is wrong.


Offline Jag

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Re: Pastor stops funeral because deceased was lesbian...
« Reply #175 on: January 26, 2015, 06:31:28 PM »
^^^Here's a thought - perhaps any negative outcomes associated with being raised in a non-hetero union are actually the result of theists who find it impossible to mind their own f'ing business and prefer passing hypocritical judgments on anyone who makes choices they believe their god will disapprove of.

Seems like a worthy alternative explanation.

STUNNING !!!
Are you kidding me?

Who is not minding their own f'ing business:

http://www.crisismagazine.com/2013/gay-persecution-of-christians-the-latest-evidence

And this is just ONE example of how certain people in this country are having their Constitutional rights trampled into the ground.

And you say we're making "hypocritical judgments"?? Yikes.

Sorry...I try to keep the tone civil but your 'alternate explanation' is just downright ridiculous, Jag !!

Those poor persecuted christians can't get the law to allow them to discriminate freely  :'(.

Not actually interested in whether or not your tone is civil, only if your reasoning is sound. Yours isn't - if you want to conduct business in the good old US of A, you follow business law, not religious dogma. Business law criminalizes discrimination and being a "christian" does not exempt you from following civil law. In fact your holy book explicitly instructs you to do so.

If a christian wants to run a business according to religious law, they're well within their legal limits to conduct such business, provided they call it what it is - church.

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Online jaimehlers

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Re: Pastor stops funeral because deceased was lesbian...
« Reply #176 on: January 26, 2015, 06:38:12 PM »
Here is a good summary of the potential consequences:

http://www.frcblog.com/2013/03/defining-marriage-what-harm-would-it-do-redefine-marriage/
Sorry, but after having read through the article, I have to say that I don't buy into any of those "potential consequences".  In fact, they come across as more than a little ludicrous.  Take this particularly bad argument:

Quote
Giving unique privileges and a unique status to the only type of relationship that can ever result in the natural creation of another human being sends an important message to society. Contrary to the charges of those who would redefine marriage, that message has nothing to do with “sexual orientation” as such. It simply sends the message that relationships of a type which can result in natural reproduction are unique, and are uniquely valuable to society; and it further sends the message that children benefit uniquely from being raised by their own mother and father (as well as the message that a man and woman should take responsibility for children produced by their union).
So, does that mean that men or women who are infertile should not be allowed to marry?  What about the elderly who marry late in their lives?  If the answer to either of those questions is "yes, they should be allowed to marry", then it becomes quite clear that this objection is frivolous, nothing more than an attempt to exclude gay couples (who can still adopt and raise children, the same as other couples which cannot produce children themselves) without coming right out and saying as much.  Furthermore, the message that they claim would be sent by legalizing same-sex marriages is utterly absurd.  Despite stating that reproduction is fundamental to the human race, they somehow attempt to claim at the very same time that same-sex marriage would serve as a denial of the importance of procreation.

Such a statement cannot stand on its own merits; it must be solidly justified.  And yet, there is no such justification, simply the bald statement of the message they think it would send, as if it were indisputable fact rather than the opinion of a conservative lobbying group.

But that isn't the end of the bad arguments, sadly:

Quote
The greatest tragedy resulting from the legalization of homosexual marriage would not be its effect on adults, but its effect on children. For the first time in history, society would be placing its highest stamp of official government approval on the deliberate creation of permanently motherless or fatherless households for children.
On its face, this doesn't seem like too bad of an argument, but it becomes very clear what they're actually objecting to later on:

Quote
Surveying the research (primarily regarding lesbians) in an American Sociological Review article in 2001, they found that:

    Children of lesbians are less likely to conform to traditional gender norms.
    Children of lesbians are more likely to engage in homosexual behavior.
    Daughters of lesbians are “more sexually adventurous and less chaste.”
    Lesbian “co-parent relationships” are more likely to break up than heterosexual marriages.
In short, their oh-so-noble concern for the children is actually based on the fact that those children would be less likely to conform to traditional gender norms, more likely to engage in homosexual behavior, and the female children are more sexually adventurous and less chaste.  Oh, and let's not forget that when this study was made, no lesbian relationship in the entire country could legally become married, so of course they would be more likely to break up; heterosexual non-married couples are more likely to break up than married couples, too.  But even more importantly than that is what they left out.  It certainly wouldn't suit the Family Research Council's agenda to have it be known that this report also found that the children of gay or lesbian parents were well-adjusted, had high self-esteem, and were as likely to have high educational achievements as the children of heterosexual married couples.  I found an article that corroborates this.  It was very interesting to read that sons of lesbians tended to be more nurturing and less aggressive, while daughters of lesbians were more likely to aspire to high-profile, high-paying jobs, such as being doctors, lawyers, engineers, or astronauts.

The other two 'concerns', that more children would grow up fatherless and birth rates would fall, are barely even worth noting.  In case the Family Research Council isn't aware of it, these things are already happening.  It is absurd to conclude that gay marriage would somehow make either of these trends worse, especially since their points are based on fallacious reasoning.  For example, they argue that fatherless children fare worse, and yet the study they linked themselves about the study of the children of lesbian parents contradicts this.  The biological children of lesbian parents, for example, do not significantly differ in terms of social adjustment and psychological well-being from the biological children of heterosexual parents raised in a nuclear family.

It is quite evident that the Family Research Council is less interested in accurately reporting the facts than they are in pursuing their agenda of trying to prove that it's somehow bad for gays and lesbians to be able to legally marry, to the point of quote-mining from studies which indicate that the opposite may be true.
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Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Pastor stops funeral because deceased was lesbian...
« Reply #177 on: January 26, 2015, 06:51:42 PM »
I wonder if, BS, you would be defending a US Muslim business that denied services to Christian couples, based on religion. Somehow I doubt it.
 
Did the Christian shop also refuse services to divorced people, folks who were serving shrimp wrapped with bacon at the reception, or people whose wedding was on Sunday? To elderly and/or infertile couples? To people who had kids before they were married? To people of differing faiths (unequally yoked :o). To Muslim or Jewish or Mormon or atheist couples? Did they hand out a questionnaire to each straight couple who entered their store, asking them to detail the sexual practices they planned to engage in, to make sure they were not lowering their shield and sanctioning something they knew to be wrong?

If they did not, they were bad Christians. So, it was not really about their religion. They were just being anti-gay bigots. Because it felt good and virtuous to say no to those filthy sinners and their tainted homo money. But not to all the other filthy sinners whose money was just as tainted.

BTW, what other services should good Christians deny to gay folks? Food, clothing, shelter? Education? Health care? Employment? Adoption? And should the discrimination against gay couples extend to those children religious folks claim to care so much about? You know, to make sure the kids are really maladjusted so you can point and say, see? Told you homos couldn't raise children....

Let's be clear.  When you use your religion to make other people suffer, you don't look virtuous. You look ignorant, petty and stupid. And you make your religion look backward and sucky.
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Online jaimehlers

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Re: Pastor stops funeral because deceased was lesbian...
« Reply #178 on: January 26, 2015, 07:05:58 PM »
Why should a business owner be forced to compromise his religious beliefs?
Like it or not, if you run a business, sometimes you have patrons who you might not otherwise approve of, but that shouldn't have any bearing on your business.  If you're going to offer business services, you either need to make it abundantly clear that you aren't going to offer services to certain categories of people and deal with whatever consequences come of that, or you need to just deal with it.

Quote from: BibleStudent
Instead of just respecting those beliefs and moving onto a business that would meet their needs, these LGBT citizens felt it was more important to create a highly visible and tense situation which ultimately led to the business owners losing their livelihood and their ability to employ people and provide financial support for their families and the community.
I seem to recall a rule that Christians are supposed to live by.  I think it starts with "Do unto others..."

People who claim to follow the rules their god set before them don't get a bye when it comes to ignoring certain rules when it's inconvenient for them, or even when other people don't reciprocate.

Quote from: BibleStudent
If people should mind their f'ing business when it comes to the homosexual, then why shouldn't people mind their f'ing business when it comes to the Christian? I have it heard said many, many times that Christians can practice their faith as long as they don't cram it down the throats of the non-theist. Well, how can we practice our faith if the LGBT community is going to force their sinful ways down the throats of Christians? Our faith is sacred....it is disrespectful and highly unsympathetic to demand that we lower our shield and succumb to doing something that we know is wrong.
Part of minding their business when it comes to homosexuals is acknowledging the fact that, if they own a business, they will sometimes have homosexuals as patrons.  If they choose to reject them as patrons, then they have to deal with whatever consequences come about as a result of that decision.  And I have no sympathy whatsoever when they start complaining about how 'unfair' it is to be 'persecuted' by the gays.

If they don't like being discriminated against, then perhaps they should have been a little bit more careful about who they chose to discriminate against.  When someone chooses to treat others poorly, for whatever reason, then they deserve whatever poor treatment gets dished out to them in return.  That includes the disrespect that you complain about here.  If you want respect, you have to be respectful, even of things that you disagree with.

If you don't like it, fine.  But you don't get a free pass on the consequences.  Nobody does.
Nullus In Verba, aka "Take nobody's word for it!"  If you can't show it, then you don't know it.

Offline Azdgari

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Re: Pastor stops funeral because deceased was lesbian...
« Reply #179 on: January 26, 2015, 07:27:08 PM »
So if a restaurant owner forbids Christians from eating at his restaurant on the basis of his particular brand of Islamic beliefs, that's A-okay?  After all, the business owner is merely following his religion.  If he kicks out your grandmother who was eating there and didn't know the rules, because she openly says Grace at dinner, is she persecuting him by complaining?

See how utterly stupid this kind of complaint is, BS?
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Re: Pastor stops funeral because deceased was lesbian...
« Reply #180 on: January 26, 2015, 07:47:02 PM »
Here is a good summary of the potential consequences:

http://www.frcblog.com/2013/03/defining-marriage-what-harm-would-it-do-redefine-marriage/

BibleStudent, I was asking you to explain why and how national recognition of same-sex marriage would lead to specific negative social consequences. I'm quite familiar with the reasoning presented by the Family Research Council on this issue; I find it both abhorrent and specious. By their logic, infertile or childless couples can't have "real" marriages, nor can children adopted by a heterosexual couple ever have a "real" mother and father.

I'm also still waiting to hear what you would accept as proof that same-sex parenting isn't harmful to children.

@jaimehler, @Wright, @Dante-

The purpose of the article I linked to was not meant to prompt a discussion about persecution. It was intended as a response to the comment that people should mind their f'ing business.

Too bad. It did what it did, and in any case does a terrible job of showing how those poor business owners were having their Constitutional rights trampled on by assuming their religious beliefs trumped the law of the land.
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Online BibleStudent

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Re: Pastor stops funeral because deceased was lesbian...
« Reply #181 on: January 26, 2015, 07:53:11 PM »
^^^Here's a thought - perhaps any negative outcomes associated with being raised in a non-hetero union are actually the result of theists who find it impossible to mind their own f'ing business and prefer passing hypocritical judgments on anyone who makes choices they believe their god will disapprove of.

Seems like a worthy alternative explanation.

STUNNING !!!
Are you kidding me?

Who is not minding their own f'ing business:

http://www.crisismagazine.com/2013/gay-persecution-of-christians-the-latest-evidence

And this is just ONE example of how certain people in this country are having their Constitutional rights trampled into the ground.

And you say we're making "hypocritical judgments"?? Yikes.

Sorry...I try to keep the tone civil but your 'alternate explanation' is just downright ridiculous, Jag !!

Those poor persecuted christians can't get the law to allow them to discriminate freely  :'(.

Not actually interested in whether or not your tone is civil, only if your reasoning is sound. Yours isn't - if you want to conduct business in the good old US of A, you follow business law, not religious dogma. Business law criminalizes discrimination and being a "christian" does not exempt you from following civil law. In fact your holy book explicitly instructs you to do so.

If a christian wants to run a business according to religious law, they're well within their legal limits to conduct such business, provided they call it what it is - church.

Have you seen this:

http://shoebat.com/2014/12/12/christian-man-asks-thirteen-gay-bakeries-bake-pro-traditional-marriage-cake-denied-service-watch-shocking-video/

Online BibleStudent

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Re: Pastor stops funeral because deceased was lesbian...
« Reply #182 on: January 26, 2015, 07:58:24 PM »
So if a restaurant owner forbids Christians from eating at his restaurant on the basis of his particular brand of Islamic beliefs, that's A-okay?  After all, the business owner is merely following his religion.  If he kicks out your grandmother who was eating there and didn't know the rules, because she openly says Grace at dinner, is she persecuting him by complaining?

See how utterly stupid this kind of complaint is, BS?

I am going to be 100% honest and tell you that if a business refused me service because it violated a sacred belief of the owner, I would be perfectly fine with that. That wouldn't bother me in the least. Why the hell should it?

Offline Nam

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Re: Pastor stops funeral because deceased was lesbian...
« Reply #183 on: January 26, 2015, 07:58:44 PM »
BS,

Now show a link FROM A NON-BIASED WEBSITE.

Go ahead. I found ZERO! Well, not true. I found one that LINKED YOUR LINK!

You're an idiot and obvious bigot.

-Nam

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Offline Jag

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Re: Pastor stops funeral because deceased was lesbian...
« Reply #184 on: January 26, 2015, 08:02:42 PM »

If people should mind their f'ing business when it comes to the homosexual, then why shouldn't people mind their f'ing business when it comes to the Christian? I have it heard said many, many times that Christians can practice their faith as long as they don't cram it down the throats of the non-theist. Well, how can we practice our faith if the LGBT community is going to force their sinful ways down the throats of Christians? Our faith is sacred....it is disrespectful and highly unsympathetic to demand that we lower our shield and succumb to doing something that we know is wrong.

Based on what you have stated in this thread and others, you seem to think the very existence of LGBT people is "shoving it down the throats" of poor persecuted christians who just want to demonstrate their love for their fellow man by discriminating against them.

I'm stopping myself just barely short of hoping that Westboro Baptist Church pickets your next family funeral.

This nation is not here for the benefit of christians only. Every citizen is entitled to the same rights, so if theists object to the idea of equal treatment under the law, they are welcome to retreat from the rest of us and go form their own little isolated communities where the existence of people they disapprove of will no longer pose a danger to their precious beliefs. There, they can happily pass judgment on one another and treat each other like crap, leaving the rest of us out of their pathetic temper tantrums.
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Offline Jag

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Re: Pastor stops funeral because deceased was lesbian...
« Reply #185 on: January 26, 2015, 08:10:08 PM »
Have you seen this:

http://shoebat.com/2014/12/12/christian-man-asks-thirteen-gay-bakeries-bake-pro-traditional-marriage-cake-denied-service-watch-shocking-video/

Nope, and I'm not going to bother. Why not, you ask? Because it changes nothing - if the video shows what you are implying it does, then the owners are just as guilty of breaking the law and should be subject to the same penalties. If the point of the video is to whine about being denied service, but no legal action was sought? I'm not interested in wtching videos of whiners who refuse to take action to help themselves or solve the problem they are whining about.

What do you have that's relevant? What's your position on civil law governing civil activity? What do you have to say about theists wanting to be exempt from following business law? Do you have any intention of addressing any of what I've said to you, or are you just going to keep complaining about nonsense?
"Tell people that there's an invisible man in the sky that created the entire universe and the majority believe you. Tell them the paint is wet, and they have to touch it to be sure." ~George Carlin

Online BibleStudent

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Re: Pastor stops funeral because deceased was lesbian...
« Reply #186 on: January 26, 2015, 08:11:21 PM »
Here is a good summary of the potential consequences:

http://www.frcblog.com/2013/03/defining-marriage-what-harm-would-it-do-redefine-marriage/

BibleStudent, I was asking you to explain why and how national recognition of same-sex marriage would lead to specific negative social consequences. I'm quite familiar with the reasoning presented by the Family Research Council on this issue; I find it both abhorrent and specious. By their logic, infertile or childless couples can't have "real" marriages, nor can children adopted by a heterosexual couple ever have a "real" mother and father.

I don't have the luxury of writing out thorough explanations for all questions asked. I do my best but sometimes I take a shortcut and post a link that contains material which mirrors my position. I am sorry if you found it disrespectful or lazy that I chose to use a link in this instance.

Quote
I'm also still waiting to hear what you would accept as proof that same-sex parenting isn't harmful to children.

Perhaps a long term unbiased study conducted by an equal compliment pro-gay and anti-gay social scientists.

@jaimehler, @Wright, @Dante-

The purpose of the article I linked to was not meant to prompt a discussion about persecution. It was intended as a response to the comment that people should mind their f'ing business.

Too bad. It did what it did, and in any case does a terrible job of showing how those poor business owners were having their Constitutional rights trampled on by assuming their religious beliefs trumped the law of the land.
[/quote]

Yep. Shame on them for thinking that they lived in a country where their religious freedom of expression is a protected right.

Offline Azdgari

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Re: Pastor stops funeral because deceased was lesbian...
« Reply #187 on: January 26, 2015, 08:14:04 PM »
So if a restaurant owner forbids Christians from eating at his restaurant on the basis of his particular brand of Islamic beliefs, that's A-okay?  After all, the business owner is merely following his religion.  If he kicks out your grandmother who was eating there and didn't know the rules, because she openly says Grace at dinner, is she persecuting him by complaining?

See how utterly stupid this kind of complaint is, BS?

I am going to be 100% honest and tell you that if a business refused me service because it violated a sacred belief of the owner, I would be perfectly fine with that. That wouldn't bother me in the least. Why the hell should it?

Because your grandma would be being persecuted.  For being a Christian, no less.

Your "honestly" doesn't ring true here.  Also, care to answer the bolded?
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Offline Jag

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Re: Pastor stops funeral because deceased was lesbian...
« Reply #188 on: January 26, 2015, 08:21:11 PM »

I'm also still waiting to hear what you would accept as proof that same-sex parenting isn't harmful to children.

Perhaps a long term unbiased study conducted by an equal compliment pro-gay and anti-gay social scientists.
:o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o

!!!!!!!!!

The criteria you have asked for is exactly the criteria for which a RESPONSIBLE researcher in ANY DISCIPLINE WOULD RECUSE THEMSELVES FROM THE STUDY.

The depth of flat-out ignorance in this is appalling. I actually don't care if I'm offending you at this point - that you suggest researchers with identified biases would suit your criteria for research studies demonstrates clearly,  more than any other awful position you have espoused, that you are completely ignorant of science methodology and incapable of critical thought.

@jaimehler, @Wright, @Dante-

The purpose of the article I linked to was not meant to prompt a discussion about persecution. It was intended as a response to the comment that people should mind their f'ing business.

Too bad. It did what it did, and in any case does a terrible job of showing how those poor business owners were having their Constitutional rights trampled on by assuming their religious beliefs trumped the law of the land.
[/quote]

Yep. Shame on them for thinking that they lived in a country where their religious freedom of expression is a protected right.
[/quote]

Shame on YOU for thinking it means you can insist that people who do not follow your faith are obligated to abide by it's rules.

You are unbelievably self-centered. If there really were a Jesus, he'd kick you off his team.
"Tell people that there's an invisible man in the sky that created the entire universe and the majority believe you. Tell them the paint is wet, and they have to touch it to be sure." ~George Carlin

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Re: Pastor stops funeral because deceased was lesbian...
« Reply #189 on: January 26, 2015, 08:22:23 PM »
Have you seen this:

http://shoebat.com/2014/12/12/christian-man-asks-thirteen-gay-bakeries-bake-pro-traditional-marriage-cake-denied-service-watch-shocking-video/

Nope, and I'm not going to bother. Why not, you ask? Because it changes nothing - if the video shows what you are implying it does, then the owners are just as guilty of breaking the law and should be subject to the same penalties. If the point of the video is to whine about being denied service, but no legal action was sought? I'm not interested in wtching videos of whiners who refuse to take action to help themselves or solve the problem they are whining about.


That's what I thought, Jag. You are demonstrating the very hypocritical nature you condemn... and choosing to be tolerant only to the point that it serves your agenda. Close your eyes and cover your ears and start humming so that you "see no evil, hear no evil." What I linked to is more than just a single isolated case of discrimination. It demonstrates what some of the LGBT movement is all about.

I'll grant the whole demonstration is a bit forced but it is certainly effective in making a valid point.

So, do you feel that the bakers who denied service should be prosecuted?

Offline Jag

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Re: Pastor stops funeral because deceased was lesbian...
« Reply #190 on: January 26, 2015, 08:25:54 PM »
^^^Miss the point much?

It doesn't matter what I "feel" should be done. Or what I think should be done either. If the ones complaining are unwilling to take appropriate action, why should I indulge their whining?  Is this really too hard to understand?

« Last Edit: January 26, 2015, 08:27:56 PM by Jag »
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Offline Azdgari

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Re: Pastor stops funeral because deceased was lesbian...
« Reply #191 on: January 26, 2015, 08:28:11 PM »
You are unbelievably self-centered. If there really were a Jesus, he'd kick you off his team.

The construct known as "Jesus" is subordinate to BS.  BS is in charge.  Jesus doesn't have the authority to kick BS off his team; BS is the coach.
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Online BibleStudent

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Re: Pastor stops funeral because deceased was lesbian...
« Reply #192 on: January 26, 2015, 08:28:34 PM »
So if a restaurant owner forbids Christians from eating at his restaurant on the basis of his particular brand of Islamic beliefs, that's A-okay?  After all, the business owner is merely following his religion.  If he kicks out your grandmother who was eating there and didn't know the rules, because she openly says Grace at dinner, is she persecuting him by complaining?

See how utterly stupid this kind of complaint is, BS?

I am going to be 100% honest and tell you that if a business refused me service because it violated a sacred belief of the owner, I would be perfectly fine with that. That wouldn't bother me in the least. Why the hell should it?

Because your grandma would be being persecuted.  For being a Christian, no less.

Your "honestly" doesn't ring true here.  Also, care to answer the bolded?

Hey, it's the business owner's prerogative to provide service to whom he decides to provide service to...especially if he decides based on a sacred belief.

Grandma is not being persecuted. She can go outside and sit in the car and thank God and then come back in.

If you choose to question the honesty if the answers I have provided then that is your choice. I try to be as honest and forthright in my responses as I can. It does me no good to lie for God...if that's what you're thinking I'm doing.

Offline Jag

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Re: Pastor stops funeral because deceased was lesbian...
« Reply #193 on: January 26, 2015, 08:29:12 PM »
BS, I ask you again - do you have any intention of addressing any of the substance of my posts to you?
"Tell people that there's an invisible man in the sky that created the entire universe and the majority believe you. Tell them the paint is wet, and they have to touch it to be sure." ~George Carlin

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Re: Pastor stops funeral because deceased was lesbian...
« Reply #194 on: January 26, 2015, 08:35:46 PM »

I'm also still waiting to hear what you would accept as proof that same-sex parenting isn't harmful to children.

Perhaps a long term unbiased study conducted by an equal compliment pro-gay and anti-gay social scientists.
:o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o

!!!!!!!!!

The criteria you have asked for is exactly the criteria for which a RESPONSIBLE researcher in ANY DISCIPLINE WOULD RECUSE THEMSELVES FROM THE STUDY.

The depth of flat-out ignorance in this is appalling. I actually don't care if I'm offending you at this point - that you suggest researchers with identified biases would suit your criteria for research studies demonstrates clearly,  more than any other awful position you have espoused, that you are completely ignorant of science methodology and incapable of critical thought.

Are you really that naive to think that bias does not exist in science? Go ahead and say that you are so that I can link to some well documented studies that show bias does exist. I am not falling for these verbal theatrics of yours or this nonsense you spout. It's just drama for effect....seen it plenty of times on here.


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Re: Pastor stops funeral because deceased was lesbian...
« Reply #195 on: January 26, 2015, 08:37:42 PM »
^^^Miss the point much?

It doesn't matter what I "feel" should be done. Or what I think should be done either. If the ones complaining are unwilling to take appropriate action, why should I indulge their whining?  Is this really too hard to understand?

You didn't answer my question:

Quote
So, do you feel that the bakers who denied service should be prosecuted?

Offline Jag

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Re: Pastor stops funeral because deceased was lesbian...
« Reply #196 on: January 26, 2015, 08:40:57 PM »
You're still avoiding addressing any of my questions. Your accusation of theatrics is kinda cute  :laugh:.

"Tell people that there's an invisible man in the sky that created the entire universe and the majority believe you. Tell them the paint is wet, and they have to touch it to be sure." ~George Carlin

Offline Azdgari

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Re: Pastor stops funeral because deceased was lesbian...
« Reply #197 on: January 26, 2015, 08:46:46 PM »
Hey, it's the business owner's prerogative to provide service to whom he decides to provide service to...especially if he decides based on a sacred belief.

So, if his sacred belief is that black people should have their own restaurants, you're fine with discriminating on that basis, too.  Cool.  Things were great back when that sort of thing was allowed, weren't they?

Grandma is not being persecuted. She can go outside and sit in the car and thank God and then come back in.

Christians aren't persecuted as long as they have the option to hide their Christianity and pretend to be something else, eh?

This rings 100% false.  If folks actually did this, you'd be crying bloody murder over it.

If you choose to question the honesty if the answers I have provided then that is your choice. I try to be as honest and forthright in my responses as I can. It does me no good to lie for God...if that's what you're thinking I'm doing.

Either you're lying, or you really don't understand what persecution means.
I always say what I mean. But sometimes I'm a sarcastic prick whose tone can't be properly communicated via text.

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Re: Pastor stops funeral because deceased was lesbian...
« Reply #198 on: January 26, 2015, 08:47:39 PM »
You're still avoiding addressing any of my questions. Your accusation of theatrics is kinda cute  :laugh:.

Please tell me what I have pointed out in this thread that does not answer your questions or respond to points you've made.


Again, are you going to answer my question:

Quote
So, do you feel that the bakers who denied service should be prosecuted?

Offline Nam

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Re: Pastor stops funeral because deceased was lesbian...
« Reply #199 on: January 26, 2015, 08:50:31 PM »
His bias link is irrelevant. A guy called 13 pro-gay bakeries and asked them to make anti-gay marriage cakes. They refused (for various reasons). The reason it's irrelevant is because if, say, I were to call 13 anti-gay bakeries and make pro-gay marriage cakes I am 100% confident that they would refuse. The former doesn't want to propagate hate and the latter doesn't want to propagate equality (which they view as 'hate').

-Nam
"presumptions are the bitch of all assumptions" -- me

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Re: Pastor stops funeral because deceased was lesbian...
« Reply #200 on: January 26, 2015, 08:57:20 PM »
Hey, it's the business owner's prerogative to provide service to whom he decides to provide service to...especially if he decides based on a sacred belief.

So, if his sacred belief is that black people should have their own restaurants, you're fine with discriminating on that basis, too.  Cool.  Things were great back when that sort of thing was allowed, weren't they?

There are a lot of African Americans who would take strong exception to what you just said here. You do a lot of harm when you start comparing the homosexual agenda with the journey of freedom for the African American.

Quote
Grandma is not being persecuted. She can go outside and sit in the car and thank God and then come back in.

Christians aren't persecuted as long as they have the option to hide their Christianity and pretend to be something else, eh?

This rings 100% false.  If folks actually did this, you'd be crying bloody murder over it.

Hiding their Christianity?? Pretend to be something else? What are you talking about?? If grandma goes to the car, she does it out of respect.

No, I wouldn't be crying bloody murder over it unless that business owner chose to be a hypocrite and not respect others who may deny him service.

Quote
If you choose to question the honesty if the answers I have provided then that is your choice. I try to be as honest and forthright in my responses as I can. It does me no good to lie for God...if that's what you're thinking I'm doing.

Either you're lying, or you really don't understand what persecution means.

Can't help you here. You either believe me or you don't.

Offline Azdgari

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Re: Pastor stops funeral because deceased was lesbian...
« Reply #201 on: January 26, 2015, 09:03:28 PM »
So, if his sacred belief is that black people should have their own restaurants, you're fine with discriminating on that basis, too.  Cool.  Things were great back when that sort of thing was allowed, weren't they?

There are a lot of African Americans who would take strong exception to what you just said here. You do a lot of harm when you start comparing the homosexual agenda with the journey of freedom for the African American.

Actually that's not what I've done at all.  You should know that, because you can read my posts.  I was comparing denial of service to Grandma for being Christian, to denial of service to a black person for being black.  In my opinion, both are persecution.  Is it your opinion that neither of them are?  Or that the latter is, and the former is not?

Keep in mind that in my hypothetical, Grandma isn't being barred because the restaurant forbids prayer; she's being barred because the restaurant forbids Christians.  The prayer simply tips them off to the fact.

Hiding their Christianity?? Pretend to be something else? What are you talking about?? If grandma goes to the car, she does it out of respect.

No, if she goes to the car, she does it because it hides the fact that she's Christian.  Why would they allow her back into the restaurant?  They already know that she's Christian at that point.
I always say what I mean. But sometimes I'm a sarcastic prick whose tone can't be properly communicated via text.

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Re: Pastor stops funeral because deceased was lesbian...
« Reply #202 on: January 26, 2015, 09:06:30 PM »
His bias link is irrelevant. A guy called 13 pro-gay bakeries and asked them to make anti-gay marriage cakes. They refused (for various reasons). The reason it's irrelevant is because if, say, I were to call 13 anti-gay bakeries and make pro-gay marriage cakes I am 100out % confident that they would refuse. The former doesn't want to propagate hate and the latter doesn't want to propagate equality (which they view as 'hate').

-Nam

I'd venture to bet you are wrong. Business owners in this country are so intimidated by the LGBT that they'd probably either do it out of fear or immediately begin dissolving their business to avoid a lawsuit.

I'll ask you the same question that I asked Jag:

Quote
So, do you feel that the bakers who denied service should be prosecuted?