Author Topic: what do you know about the Yazidis?  (Read 248 times)

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Offline relativetruth

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what do you know about the Yazidis?
« on: August 08, 2014, 06:54:13 AM »
Given, Obama's recent statements..

Start with this link

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-magazine-monitor-28686607

A little insight into one obscure religion.

To me this is just another example of how religions spread OR NOT.

Correctly, the world is NOW focused on the humanitarian aid for this region. And we all know that this is just one huge political football for all the countries in the world.

But, how do the Yazidis rationalise this amongst themselves? Do they feel that their god will provide for them?
Will we find that in ten year's time we will still find many, many devout Yazidis? They will find ways to explain why their god did not help them this time round!

Should we be allowing freedom of thought across the world? And not just for the powerful?

What are your thoughts?
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Re: what do you know about the Yazidis?
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2014, 07:10:07 AM »
They sacrifice animals and use circumcision. That is enough for me to hope their beliefs go extinct. Someone should go there and start a cargo cult, which would be an improvement.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2014, 07:11:45 AM by Foxy Freedom »
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Re: what do you know about the Yazidis?
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2014, 07:19:18 AM »
Should we be allowing freedom of thought across the world? And not just for the powerful?

Uh... Yes? Are you implying we shouldn't?

What are your thoughts?

They're free to think whatever they want, as long as they don't try to convert or kill or otherwise harm anyone.
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Re: what do you know about the Yazidis?
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2014, 07:19:26 AM »
Should we be allowing freedom of thought across the world?
Well, I do allow freedom of thought, trouble is that not everyone listens to me. So,
1. Who is "we"
2. How can it be "allowed"? Do you mean "enforced by brutality if necessary"?

The thing is, history is littered with atrocities committed in an attempt by the religiously deluded to show that their invisible friend tells the truth and your invisible friend does not.

So far, the world is divided between those who think any solution is impossible to find and those who do not see persecution as a problem as long as it is not them who are persecuted.

We see the New Testament telling us that Christians will be persecuted and should rejoice, and we see the command that those who refuse to be Christians should be slaughtered.

It seems to me that the Yazdis are just another victim of the nature of mankind.
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Offline relativetruth

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Re: what do you know about the Yazidis?
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2014, 07:23:54 AM »
They sacrifice animals and use circumcision. That is enough for me to hope their beliefs go extinct. Someone should go there and start a cargo cult, which would be an improvement.

So therefore they do not deserve humanitarian aid?

If a private boat experiences difficulties anywhere in the world, do the World's air and sea rescue operations demand to know religious and polictical affliliations before they take any actions? And should they or should'nt they?
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Offline atheola

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Re: what do you know about the Yazidis?
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2014, 08:24:00 AM »
Of course we're picking winners and losers here, but it shouldn't be in anyway based on which magical man in the sky you ask for whatever you ask for. I'm watching CNN right now because it's basically the only news channel here other than fox, but you would think this whole mess is because some bad people are threatening *gasp* 'Christians'.. OH FUCK! NOT CHRISTIANS! AS IF there is no fucking way any branch of Christianity the US juggernaut would so much as allow on hair on their heads to be harmed*..

*unless from South and Central America then it's OK to let die trying to cross OUR border..
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Re: what do you know about the Yazidis?
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2014, 08:28:45 AM »
They sacrifice animals and use circumcision. That is enough for me to hope their beliefs go extinct. Someone should go there and start a cargo cult, which would be an improvement.
Yeah...my family shoulda been wiped off the face of the earth long ago..my foreskin was ripped off 55 yearsago and we ate pig flesh.. FUCK! I ate a pork chop just last week AND had a ham sandwich yesterday!
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Re: what do you know about the Yazidis?
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2014, 10:19:59 AM »
They sacrifice animals and use circumcision. That is enough for me to hope their beliefs go extinct. Someone should go there and start a cargo cult, which would be an improvement.

So therefore they do not deserve humanitarian aid?

I realize that you're actually asking FF, but this seems like a pretty big leap from what was stated to what you appear to have concluded from it. How do you derive not deserving of humanitarian aid from FF's post? I don't follow how you got there.

Quote
If a private boat experiences difficulties anywhere in the world, do the World's air and sea rescue operations demand to know religious and polictical affliliations before they take any actions? And should they or should'nt they?

While we're at it, how are these things related to FF's post? How do you equate an observation about religious rituals and a hope that the beliefs about those religious rituals go extinct, to (essentially) "f@ck 'em" ? What am I not understanding about your response?
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Re: what do you know about the Yazidis?
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2014, 10:38:24 AM »
Thanks Jag,

It looks like my post was not read correctly.

I specifically said I would prefer them to have a cargo cult. How do you get a cargo cult? By supplying aid.
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Offline relativetruth

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Re: what do you know about the Yazidis?
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2014, 05:37:19 PM »
Thanks Jag,

It looks like my post was not read correctly.

I specifically said I would prefer them to have a cargo cult. How do you get a cargo cult? By supplying aid.

By suggesting a cargo cult you are attaching conditions to the supply of aid.

Who will be the supplier of the cargo and who decides which values said 'deity' would encourage?

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Re: what do you know about the Yazidis?
« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2014, 05:47:32 PM »
Thanks Jag,

It looks like my post was not read correctly.

I specifically said I would prefer them to have a cargo cult. How do you get a cargo cult? By supplying aid.

By suggesting a cargo cult you are attaching conditions to the supply of aid.

Who will be the supplier of the cargo and who decides which values said 'deity' would encourage?

No, cargo cults spring up by themselves, but I wouldn't object if one of our theists wanted to help persuade them. It is not a condition just a preference.
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Re: what do you know about the Yazidis?
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2014, 05:48:44 PM »
....are we reading the same posts relative truth?  :?
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Re: what do you know about the Yazidis?
« Reply #12 on: August 08, 2014, 05:57:34 PM »
What's actually under discussion here? The OP was about allowing religious freedom of thought. Somehow that leap-frogged into humanitarian aid and a rather out-of-nowhere accusation of wanting to deny it.

What the h@ll are we talking about?
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Offline relativetruth

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Re: what do you know about the Yazidis?
« Reply #13 on: August 08, 2014, 06:13:33 PM »
My OP was talking about the Yazidis stranded on top of a mountain.

The first post by FF, brought up the religious beliefs and practices of the Yazidis which he suggested could be improved by using a cargo cult.

I interpreted that post as meaning that FF did not care for the Yazidis because of their beliefs. And also his flippant comment about imposing a cargo cult also made me think that he thought that somebody aught to go there and change their beliefs!

By supplying aid by means of a cargo cult is using a lot of the worst practices that xtians have been using for thousands of years.

edit for grammer
« Last Edit: August 08, 2014, 06:19:09 PM by relativetruth »
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Offline atheola

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Re: what do you know about the Yazidis?
« Reply #14 on: August 08, 2014, 06:27:00 PM »
I don't buy the whole religious freedom story put out by the state dept or Pentagon or CNN for that matter. US policy is and has always been based on whatever is good for US interests first and foremost, specifically for monetary gain or strategic interest, both usually intersecting. The religion story is feel good gibberish and government is amoral anyway. Lives are mere numbers on flow charts somewhere. If our government started caring about some relatively unknown group of minorities anywhere it would damned sure be the first time. I suspect it's a feel good cover story and there's strategic and monied interests at stake here otherwise these people could just as soon all rot on this mountaintop. Someone stands to either gain or lose a shitload of money and the Kurds are the protectorate of whatever assets are at stake.
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Offline relativetruth

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Re: what do you know about the Yazidis?
« Reply #15 on: August 08, 2014, 06:30:24 PM »

Should we be allowing freedom of thought across the world? And not just for the powerful?

That was the penutimate question in my OP.
And FF was the first poster.

That is why I reacted the way I did to his post.

I am sorry that I am not as articulate as I would like to be.
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Re: what do you know about the Yazidis?
« Reply #16 on: August 08, 2014, 06:39:06 PM »
Freedom of thought is relative to the actions being taken by whoever is doing the thinking. It's fine if you think everyone should have only one hand, but if you run around lopping everyone's hands off your not going to remain free to think that for to long..
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Re: what do you know about the Yazidis?
« Reply #17 on: August 08, 2014, 07:18:42 PM »
My OP was talking about the Yazidis stranded on top of a mountain.

The first post by FF, brought up the religious beliefs and practices of the Yazidis which he suggested could be improved by using a cargo cult.

I interpreted that post as meaning that FF did not care for the Yazidis because of their beliefs.
My impresssion is that FF doesn't care for the beliefs of the Yazidis, for at least two specific reasons. Both reasons, by the way, indicate that FF is actually quite appropriately objecting to harming both infants and animals.

Quote
And also his flippant comment about imposing a cargo cult also made me think that he thought that somebody aught to go there and change their beliefs!

Stating a flippant preference for a cargo cult to replace religious practices that include harming both infants and animals in rituals is quite a bit different than imposing anything. (Totally going off on a tangent for a moment:Cargo cults have a fascinating history if you're at all interested in sociology. They present some unique opportunities to observe a religion from it's literal inception through to the creation and enacting of rituals intended to earn favor with a deity. And there's tangible benefit to the cultists in that the cargo (signs of favor from the cargo God) often has many items of genuine value, like foods and other life sustaining supplies. Again, this might be unique in modern religious traditions. They actually get tangible benefit - unrelated to their worship, of course, but at least more understandable than most other traditions in that respect.)

Quote
By supplying aid by means of a cargo cult is using a lot of the worst practices that xtians have been using for thousands of years.

I'm curious about what connection you are making to the worst practices of xtians.  I have opinions about what practices are particularly bad, but have no idea which ones you are referring to. But before we get into that...

This is where it all went off the rails I think. You brought up the issue of humanitarian aid in response to that post, not prior to it. Humanitarian aid wasn't part of the discussion, nor relevant to FF's post as I'm understanding it.

Foxy, am I misunderstanding your post? Were you referencing humanitarian aid?


edit:grammar
« Last Edit: August 08, 2014, 07:20:13 PM by Jag »
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Offline relativetruth

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Re: what do you know about the Yazidis?
« Reply #18 on: August 08, 2014, 07:26:58 PM »
I don't buy the whole religious freedom story put out by the state dept or Pentagon or CNN for that matter. US policy is and has always been based on whatever is good for US interests, US interests and the people in power in the US, first and foremost, specifically for monetary gain or strategic interest, both usually intersecting. The religion story is feel good gibberish and government is amoral anyway. Lives are mere numbers on flow charts somewhere. If our government started caring about some relatively unknown group of minorities anywhere it would damned sure be the first time. I suspect it's a feel good cover story and there's strategic and monied interests at stake here otherwise these people could just as soon all rot on this mountaintop. Someone stands to either gain or lose a shitload of money and the Kurds are the protectorate of whatever assets are at stake.

agreed.

I was kinda hoping for this type of post when I started the OP.

But I was also trying to illustrate the futility of religion. These people should have had their beliefs turned upside down when their god did not support them. But most of them will probably rationalise it away with suspect logic as most theists do.

What most theists refuse to understand is that the reason their religion is successful (in terms of numbers of believers) is NOT because of the power of their god but because of the power of the people who have (or say they do) those beliefs.
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Re: what do you know about the Yazidis?
« Reply #19 on: August 08, 2014, 07:48:31 PM »
I was thinking of a cargo cult independent of the source of the cargo.

I am not sure what RT means here

By supplying aid by means of a cargo cult....

The people who supply the aid do not invent the cargo cult.
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Offline relativetruth

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Re: what do you know about the Yazidis?
« Reply #20 on: August 08, 2014, 08:07:08 PM »

My impresssion is that FF doesn't care for the beliefs of the Yazidis, for at least two specific reasons. Both reasons, by the way, indicate that FF is actually quite appropriately objecting to harming both infants and animals.
Probably a lot of the Yazidis' beliefs' would disgust me if I knew of them. And many, many more of them I probably would not care for.
Quote
I'm curious about what connection you are making to the worst practices of xtians.  I have opinions about what practices are particularly bad, but have no idea which ones you are referring to. But before we get into that...
I was thinking of the missionaries who went to spred xtianity amongst the heathen and the resultant communities that followed.
Once the theists got a foothold the wealthy and the politicians took complete control.
Quote
This is where it all went off the rails I think. You brought up the issue of humanitarian aid in response to that post, not prior to it. Humanitarian aid wasn't part of the discussion, nor relevant to FF's post as I'm understanding it.
It was not in response to FF's post it WAS PART OF THE OP.

The OP was about Obama's sending humanitarian aid to the Yazidis and my question was what did y'all think of that?

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Offline relativetruth

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Re: what do you know about the Yazidis?
« Reply #21 on: August 08, 2014, 08:23:01 PM »

They sacrifice animals and use circumcision. That is enough for me to hope their beliefs go extinct. Someone should go there and start a cargo cult, which would be an improvement.

Thanks Jag,

It looks like my post was not read correctly.

I specifically said I would prefer them to have a cargo cult. How do you get a cargo cult? By supplying aid.

OK explain to me Foxy what you meant when you said you get a cargo cult (desirable or not) by supplying aid?
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Offline relativetruth

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Re: what do you know about the Yazidis?
« Reply #22 on: August 08, 2014, 08:25:40 PM »
I was thinking of a cargo cult independent of the source of the cargo.

I am not sure what RT means here

By supplying aid by means of a cargo cult....

The people who supply the aid do not invent the cargo cult.

See above!!!
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Re: what do you know about the Yazidis?
« Reply #23 on: August 08, 2014, 08:50:23 PM »

They sacrifice animals and use circumcision. That is enough for me to hope their beliefs go extinct. Someone should go there and start a cargo cult, which would be an improvement.

Thanks Jag,

It looks like my post was not read correctly.

I specifically said I would prefer them to have a cargo cult. How do you get a cargo cult? By supplying aid.

OK explain to me Foxy what you meant when you said you get a cargo cult (desirable or not) by supplying aid?

Two different groups or people. The people who supply the aid are not the same as the people who take part in the cult.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2014, 08:54:28 PM by Foxy Freedom »
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Offline relativetruth

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Re: what do you know about the Yazidis?
« Reply #24 on: August 08, 2014, 09:05:58 PM »

They sacrifice animals and use circumcision. That is enough for me to hope their beliefs go extinct. Someone should go there and start a cargo cult, which would be an improvement.

Thanks Jag,

It looks like my post was not read correctly.

I specifically said I would prefer them to have a cargo cult. How do you get a cargo cult? By supplying aid.

OK explain to me Foxy what you meant when you said you get a cargo cult (desirable or not) by supplying aid?

Two different groups or people. The people who supply the aid are not the same as the people who take part in the cult.

Sorry, my bad
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Re: what do you know about the Yazidis?
« Reply #25 on: August 09, 2014, 07:58:00 AM »
I'm curious about what connection you are making to the worst practices of xtians.  I have opinions about what practices are particularly bad, but have no idea which ones you are referring to. But before we get into that...
I was thinking of the missionaries who went to spred xtianity amongst the heathen and the resultant communities that followed.
Once the theists got a foothold the wealthy and the politicians took complete control.

Got it. I agree, in a general sense - I object strenuously to missionary work. Humanitarian aid should not include such activities.

Quote
Quote
This is where it all went off the rails I think. You brought up the issue of humanitarian aid in response to that post, not prior to it. Humanitarian aid wasn't part of the discussion, nor relevant to FF's post as I'm understanding it.
It was not in response to FF's post it WAS PART OF THE OP.

The OP was about Obama's sending humanitarian aid to the Yazidis and my question was what did y'all think of that?

Actually, the linked article made no mention of Obama and humanitarian aid. You simply said "in light of Obama's recent remarks" with no indication of what he actually said, or how it relate to the linked article. The article talked about the Yazidis history and beliefs in relation to their current situation. You asked several questions but nothing in the OP was clearly about humanitarian aid.

It's clear that you want to discuss that NOW, but that really wasn't clear in the OP.

What were you referring to when you said "Given Obama's recent statements"? What did he say?
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Re: what do you know about the Yazidis?
« Reply #26 on: August 09, 2014, 11:08:22 AM »
NBC News -
Quote
Two US Navy FA-18's struck first, taking out ISIS artillery that had been firing at Kurdish forces at Erbil.  Hours later an unmanned predator drone hit an ISIS mortar position not once, but twice, with hellfire missiles.   Followed by four FA-18's that obliterated an ISIS convoy with 8 - 500 pound laser guided bombs.
Surely this will make crazy extreme Islam view other world positions - religions, cults, governments, whatever labels we agree to give them - as sensible.    [sigh - rolls eyes]   

http://xfinity.comcast.net/video/US-Warplanes-Carry-Out-Airstrikes-on-ISIS-Militants-in-Iraq/316699203568/Comcast/Today_in_Video/?cid=newsmod_sf_ISIS
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Offline atheola

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Re: what do you know about the Yazidis?
« Reply #27 on: August 09, 2014, 02:46:03 PM »
Quote
What most theists refuse to understand is that the reason their religion is successful (in terms of numbers of believers) is NOT because of the power of their god but because of the power of the people who have (or say they do) those beliefs.
They interpret things to make it all to be their god when in fact it's actually the power of the state to interpret the bullshit to favor the state and its unique ability to enforce religious rules..
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