Author Topic: How should God intervene against evil? Should it be systematic?  (Read 3279 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Lukvance

  • Emergency Room
  • ******
  • Posts: 1982
  • Darwins +13/-258
  • Gender: Male
  • Catholic
  • User is on moderator watch listWatched
Sometime evil is the source of greater good.
For example : During the second world war we had to kill in order to preserve the freedom.
Should have God intervene? How? Why this time and not the other times?
You're worth more than my time

Online One Above All

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 11041
  • Darwins +285/-37
  • Supreme ruler of the multiverse; All In One
Re: How should God intervene against evil? Should it be systematic?
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2014, 01:29:07 PM »
An omnipotent and benevolent god could intervene without bad side effects.

/thread
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken_rjcf/Lucifer/All In One.

Offline Lukvance

  • Emergency Room
  • ******
  • Posts: 1982
  • Darwins +13/-258
  • Gender: Male
  • Catholic
  • User is on moderator watch listWatched
Re: How should God intervene against evil? Should it be systematic?
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2014, 01:46:21 PM »
An omnipotent and benevolent god could intervene without bad side effects.
You don't know what you are talking about.
You're worth more than my time

Online One Above All

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 11041
  • Darwins +285/-37
  • Supreme ruler of the multiverse; All In One
Re: How should God intervene against evil? Should it be systematic?
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2014, 01:49:58 PM »
You I don't know what you are I am talking about.

FTFY.
Omnipotence: the ability to do anything however you want it.
Benevolence: the state of being benevolent.

If your god existed and was omnipotent and benevolent, it could just think "I wish for there to be no evil anywhere, but without affecting anything in any negative way" and it would be so. No fuss, no muss.
Nothing is impossible for an omnipotent being. Hence the "omnipotent" part.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken_rjcf/Lucifer/All In One.

Offline ParkingPlaces

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 6469
  • Darwins +770/-6
  • Gender: Male
  • Hide and Seek World Champion since 1958!
Re: How should God intervene against evil? Should it be systematic?
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2014, 01:58:05 PM »
Let your imagination go wild, Luk.  That's how the whole god story got started, and now that you've decided that it has legs, I would suggest that you just keep making up stuff, like in this post, and see how deeper a hole you can dig for yourself.

But since there is no god, you've got your work cut out for you. To make sense of reality while simultaneously tossing in the results of vivid imaginations, you really have to cut corners in the logic department to make it all work out. Thinking, for instance, that evil in some sort of supernatural form causes wars is a great way to create erroneous conclusions to act on. Everything has positive results if you look hard enough. If a school,bus full of kids gets wiped out by a train, then that means more work for the school bus makers. There can be a positive side to everything, if you look hard enough and ignore reality.

Asking atheists to comment on the positives of evil may not work out well for you. This could really hurt your street cred around here.

By the way, the next time you ask "Do you believe that love exist." Could you do us all a favor and put an 's' on the end of the last word so that we English speakers won't have to grit our teeth so hard when we read it.
Not everyone is entitled to their own opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

Offline Energized

  • Undergraduate
  • ***
  • Posts: 172
  • Darwins +29/-1
  • Gender: Male
  • Enma Ai is GOD!
Re: How should God intervene against evil? Should it be systematic?
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2014, 02:07:12 PM »
Should have God intervene? How? Why this time and not the other times?

Which one? The christian god because you live in a western culture or Nana Buluku, god of the Yoruba religion?

What a ridiculous post to put on an atheist message board. It's like asking someone with a peanut allergy whether they prefer Jif or Peter Pan.

 &)

E.
'O pitiful shadow lost in the darkness,
Bringing torment and pain to others.
O damned soul wallowing in your sin.
Perhaps it is time to die?'

~Enma Ai, Jigoku Shoujo

Online One Above All

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 11041
  • Darwins +285/-37
  • Supreme ruler of the multiverse; All In One
Re: How should God intervene against evil? Should it be systematic?
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2014, 02:09:28 PM »
What a ridiculous post to put on an atheist message board. It's like asking someone with a peanut allergy whether they prefer Jif or Peter Pan.

Just throwing this out there, but that question would not make sense in any context whatsoever.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken_rjcf/Lucifer/All In One.

Offline fishjie

  • Undergraduate
  • ***
  • Posts: 242
  • Darwins +12/-0
Re: How should God intervene against evil? Should it be systematic?
« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2014, 02:10:18 PM »
By the way, the next time you ask "Do you believe that love exist." Could you do us all a favor and put an 's' on the end of the last word so that we English speakers won't have to grit our teeth so hard when we read it.

From the way Luk posts he most likely isn't a native english speaker so insulting him for that is really uncalled for

Anyway on topic, god isn't omnipotent. Omnipotence isn't a logically consistent trait (make a rock so hard you can't lift it), so its not possible for any being to possess it. So now that that's out of the way, the question becomes whether or not ends justify the means, which is a much more interesting ethical discussion.

Online One Above All

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 11041
  • Darwins +285/-37
  • Supreme ruler of the multiverse; All In One
Re: How should God intervene against evil? Should it be systematic?
« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2014, 02:13:36 PM »
Anyway on topic, god isn't omnipotent.

Not according to Lukvance's definition. Your point is moot.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken_rjcf/Lucifer/All In One.

Offline Lukvance

  • Emergency Room
  • ******
  • Posts: 1982
  • Darwins +13/-258
  • Gender: Male
  • Catholic
  • User is on moderator watch listWatched
Re: How should God intervene against evil? Should it be systematic?
« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2014, 03:10:53 PM »
How about you stop making the discussion about me?
You don't have to subscribe to this thread if you don't want to talk about it.
You're worth more than my time

Offline Lukvance

  • Emergency Room
  • ******
  • Posts: 1982
  • Darwins +13/-258
  • Gender: Male
  • Catholic
  • User is on moderator watch listWatched
Re: How should God intervene against evil? Should it be systematic?
« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2014, 03:14:07 PM »
Should have God intervene? How? Why this time and not the other times?
Which one? The christian god because you live in a western culture or Nana Buluku, god of the Yoruba religion?
Either. Why do you think it matters?
What a ridiculous post to put on an atheist message board. It's like asking someone with a peanut allergy whether they prefer Jif or Peter Pan.
You don't have to subscribe to this thread if you don't want to talk about it. Keep your destructive thoughts for yourself...or your "friends"
You're worth more than my time

Offline Energized

  • Undergraduate
  • ***
  • Posts: 172
  • Darwins +29/-1
  • Gender: Male
  • Enma Ai is GOD!
Re: How should God intervene against evil? Should it be systematic?
« Reply #11 on: July 30, 2014, 03:29:37 PM »
Should have God intervene? How? Why this time and not the other times?
Which one? The christian god because you live in a western culture or Nana Buluku, god of the Yoruba religion?
Either. Why do you think it matters?

Considering the amount of non sensical word salad posts you have written, your response doesn't surprise me.

But it does matter, which shows your ignorance of gods created by men.

Some gods intervene, some gods don't.

So!

Which one are we talking about?
 
What a ridiculous post to put on an atheist message board. It's like asking someone with a peanut allergy whether they prefer Jif or Peter Pan.
You don't have to subscribe to this thread if you don't want to talk about it. Keep your destructive thoughts for yourself...or your "friends"

I have free will, y'know... or maybe I don't. I'm not sure. Do I? Actually don't answer - my brain is tired and I can't do the mental gymnastics to make things fit together...

E. 
'O pitiful shadow lost in the darkness,
Bringing torment and pain to others.
O damned soul wallowing in your sin.
Perhaps it is time to die?'

~Enma Ai, Jigoku Shoujo

Offline YRM_DM

  • Graduate
  • ****
  • Posts: 386
  • Darwins +77/-1
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: How should God intervene against evil? Should it be systematic?
« Reply #12 on: July 30, 2014, 03:46:31 PM »
Sometime evil is the source of greater good.
For example : During the second world war we had to kill in order to preserve the freedom.
Should have God intervene? How? Why this time and not the other times?

I believe that good people have the capacity to take an evil situation and make the best of it.   

Someone who is raped might develop stronger inner fortitude than they would have otherwise.
Someone with a disabled child might take less things for granted than they would otherwise.
Someone who recovers from cancer might have more appreciation for life than they would have otherwise.
Sometimes an evil like Hitler makes people appreciate a less evil president or country.

But it's a theist fallacy to say that bad things happen as part of some grand plan to make us stronger people.   Why?

Surely you know of rich, spoiled, pampered people who lie, steal and cheat and might benefit from growth of character but managed decades to a lifetime of a crazy, fun lifestyle and never experience significant growth.

Similarly you may know people who are by all accounts, good people, who repeatedly are struck by tragedy.

A god who loves everyone and knows everything would surely not keep inflicting damage on the 12 year old girl in Africa having her privates raped and mutilated by warlords, yet largely spare Justin Beiber or Frank Sinatra or Joe Namath.

People are blessed or "allowed suffering" in this world in exactly the same way Santa Claus gives more presents to rich kids and does less for poor kids.

Some people suffer more because there is no god and life is not designed to be fair.

The fact that people can choose to grow from, or make the best of, a bad situation, is to their credit.  It is NOT to the credit of some invisible benevolent gardener who felt it was good to "prune" Suzie by letting her uncle molest her so she'd "build more character" as part of "god's master plan".

I'm sorry, there's just no way.
You can't spell BELIEVE without LIE...  and a few other letters.  B and E and V and I think E.

Offline Ataraxia

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 523
  • Darwins +79/-1
  • Gender: Male
  • "I am large, I contain multitudes."
Re: How should God intervene against evil? Should it be systematic?
« Reply #13 on: July 30, 2014, 03:48:22 PM »
Sometime evil is the source of greater good.
For example : During the second world war we had to kill in order to preserve the freedom.
Should have God intervene? How? Why this time and not the other times?

I'm just gonna nuke the fridge on this and say... - no, god shouldn't intervene because he should never have to. This whole existence is pointless from gods perspective and he knew from the off how everything would unfold anyway.
"God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh." - Voltaire

Offline Lukvance

  • Emergency Room
  • ******
  • Posts: 1982
  • Darwins +13/-258
  • Gender: Male
  • Catholic
  • User is on moderator watch listWatched
Re: How should God intervene against evil? Should it be systematic?
« Reply #14 on: July 30, 2014, 03:50:50 PM »
Which one are we talking about?
Which ever you want. I don't really care.
You're worth more than my time

Offline Lukvance

  • Emergency Room
  • ******
  • Posts: 1982
  • Darwins +13/-258
  • Gender: Male
  • Catholic
  • User is on moderator watch listWatched
Re: How should God intervene against evil? Should it be systematic?
« Reply #15 on: July 30, 2014, 03:58:28 PM »
But it's a theist fallacy to say that bad things happen as part of some grand plan to make us stronger people.
True but "why" is not the question here.
The question I am asking is what should God do against the "biebers" of this world and are there some "biebers" that he should leave alone? Why? Do you think that you might be considered as a bieber by some people?
You're worth more than my time

Offline Lukvance

  • Emergency Room
  • ******
  • Posts: 1982
  • Darwins +13/-258
  • Gender: Male
  • Catholic
  • User is on moderator watch listWatched
Re: How should God intervene against evil? Should it be systematic?
« Reply #16 on: July 30, 2014, 04:01:11 PM »
I'm just gonna nuke the fridge on this and say... - no, god shouldn't intervene because he should never have to. This whole existence is pointless from gods perspective and he knew from the off how everything would unfold anyway.
Am I understanding correctly. You want God to not intervene?
Do you want him to not intervene against evil only or not intervene at all?
You seem to think that he intervened already. In what way?
You're worth more than my time

Offline Ataraxia

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 523
  • Darwins +79/-1
  • Gender: Male
  • "I am large, I contain multitudes."
Re: How should God intervene against evil? Should it be systematic?
« Reply #17 on: July 30, 2014, 04:10:43 PM »
I'm just gonna nuke the fridge on this and say... - no, god shouldn't intervene because he should never have to. This whole existence is pointless from gods perspective and he knew from the off how everything would unfold anyway.
Am I understanding correctly. You want God to not intervene?
Do you want him to not intervene against evil only or not intervene at all?
You seem to think that he intervened already. In what way?

You're turning what I am saying into more than just a hypothetical, as obviously, being an atheist, I don't think any god has done bugger all.... ever.

Anyway, I thought what I was saying was pretty clear, that if god needs to intervene in a pre-planned universe where god knows every outcome already, then he's shit at creating what is a pointless universe.
"God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh." - Voltaire

Offline fishjie

  • Undergraduate
  • ***
  • Posts: 242
  • Darwins +12/-0
Re: How should God intervene against evil? Should it be systematic?
« Reply #18 on: July 30, 2014, 04:21:11 PM »
Anyway on topic, god isn't omnipotent.

Not according to Lukvance's definition. Your point is moot.

Who cares what Lukvance's definition is? Perhaps you don't understand how interweb forums work. Someone starts a discussion, and then the discussions evolves and takes twists and turns as necessary. Really, the problem of evil is quite easy to solve. The only concession that apologists have to make is that god isn't omnipotent, which isn't a huge deal when you think about it.

Online One Above All

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 11041
  • Darwins +285/-37
  • Supreme ruler of the multiverse; All In One
Re: How should God intervene against evil? Should it be systematic?
« Reply #19 on: July 30, 2014, 04:51:39 PM »
Who cares what Lukvance's definition is?

He's the OP, he started the discussion, he's the one making the question in an attempt to support his argument... Just off the top of my head, those are a few reasons why we (including you) should care.

Really, the problem of evil is quite easy to solve. The only concession that apologists have to make is that god isn't omnipotent, which isn't a huge deal when you think about it.

Apologists conceding a point... Now there's a joke I hadn't heard before.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken_rjcf/Lucifer/All In One.

Online jaimehlers

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 4936
  • Darwins +563/-17
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: How should God intervene against evil? Should it be systematic?
« Reply #20 on: July 30, 2014, 05:09:45 PM »
Sometime evil is the source of greater good.
No, it isn't ever the source of greater good.  If someone tries to kill me, and I kill him in order to preserve my own life, someone still ends up dead.  That's hardly what I'd call a "greater good".  It is, at best, a mitigated evil.

I'm going to quote from Sun Tzu here, because it's very relevant.  "To win a hundred victories in a hundred battles is not the acme of skill.  To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill."

Quote from: Lukvance
For example : During the second world war we had to kill in order to preserve the freedom.
Having studied WWII in quite a lot of depth, I can definitely say that this is false.  The reason the war happened is because nobody was willing to confront Hitler while he was still weak for fear of having to fight another huge war, and as a result, they let him grow stronger and stronger until, when they had no choice but to fight him, he was too strong to fight.  If it weren't for him picking a fight with the Soviet Union and the USA getting involved after Pearl Harbor, Hitler would have won WWII, and the resulting events would have been immeasurably worse.

All it would have taken was England and France standing up to him when he started making territorial demands and that might have stopped the whole war from happening at all.  That would have been a greater good, even though nobody would have known any better.

Quote from: Lukvance
Should have God intervene?
How many millions of people died as a result of Hitler's actions?  If your god had the power to intervene and did not, then he is at least partially responsible for every one of those deaths.

Quote from: Lukvance
How?
Any number of ways.  I can think of a dozen off the top of my head with which he could have prevented Hitler from rising to power with minimal deaths.

Quote from: Lukvance
Why this time and not the other times?
That's a very good question.  Why did your god not intervene all the other times evil happened, especially since he's supposed to be benevolent?

Offline YRM_DM

  • Graduate
  • ****
  • Posts: 386
  • Darwins +77/-1
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: How should God intervene against evil? Should it be systematic?
« Reply #21 on: July 30, 2014, 05:23:27 PM »
Sometime evil is the source of greater good.
For example : During the second world war we had to kill in order to preserve the freedom.
Should have God intervene? How? Why this time and not the other times?

I responded above why I think this is a false premise but, to answer the question directly.

Let's assume there's a god who loves us and created everything and is the objective source for good.

I feel that God should make himself known in very concrete ways... for example, we'd know God was as real as we know the sun and moon are real.  We could see him and see clear tangible evidence of him that is traced directly to him.

After proving he was God, what he said to us would make a ton of sense, and his advice would be wise and kind like the nicest, most effective, most intelligent person you know, but MORE in an amazing way.

We might still be able to do evil, but there'd be karmic type consequences for those evil deeds.

Here's a very simple example.   Rape is wrong.   It certainly takes away the free will of the victim.   Why not make the body unable to perform such an act?  Why not make it so that a male and female both release a clear chemical "turn u on" signal when they both desire to mate?   That way, a person could never be turned on by someone who didn't want to mate with them.

That's just one thing an intelligent designer could have done to, in one step, eliminate an act that I think believers and non-believers alike view as "objectively evil".

People might still have free will to, say, sin sexually... but they wouldn't have the free will to violate someone else's free will.
You can't spell BELIEVE without LIE...  and a few other letters.  B and E and V and I think E.

Offline dloubet

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1398
  • Darwins +79/-1
  • Gender: Male
    • Denisloubet.com
Re: How should God intervene against evil? Should it be systematic?
« Reply #22 on: July 30, 2014, 05:46:16 PM »
Sometime evil is the source of greater good.

Is all evil the source of greater good, or just some? If evil results in good, then how can it be called evil? Isn't it just misunderstood good?

Quote
For example : During the second world war we had to kill in order to preserve the freedom.

So all those that died were just props to show the survivors the cost of freedom? That's how you think of it?

Quote
Should have God intervene? How? Why this time and not the other times?

The god is supposedly all powerful, it could have set up things so that people immediately feel the pain and suffering they cause others. And being supposedly omniscient, it could make sure that it's all fair and that masochists don't benefit from causing others pain, and that doctors don't feel the pain of their patients if they can't anesthetize them.

Instant karma. Why not? We would still have our supposed free will, but we would simply have to be willing to bear the same pain and suffering that we inflict.
Denis Loubet

Offline 12 Monkeys

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 4617
  • Darwins +105/-11
  • Gender: Male
  • Dii hau dang ijii
Re: How should God intervene against evil? Should it be systematic?
« Reply #23 on: July 30, 2014, 06:12:35 PM »
By the way, the next time you ask "Do you believe that love exist." Could you do us all a favor and put an 's' on the end of the last word so that we English speakers won't have to grit our teeth so hard when we read it.

From the way Luk posts he most likely isn't a native english speaker so insulting him for that is really uncalled for

Anyway on topic, god isn't omnipotent. Omnipotence isn't a logically consistent trait (make a rock so hard you can't lift it), so its not possible for any being to possess it. So now that that's out of the way, the question becomes whether or not ends justify the means, which is a much more interesting ethical discussion.
you only have to "lift" the rock if there is gravity involved. God could make a rock the size of the universe.....if there is no gravity field to make it "heavy"
There's no right there's no wrong,there's just popular opinion (Brad Pitt as Jeffery Goines in 12 monkeys)

Offline fishjie

  • Undergraduate
  • ***
  • Posts: 242
  • Darwins +12/-0
Re: How should God intervene against evil? Should it be systematic?
« Reply #24 on: July 30, 2014, 06:15:09 PM »
Who cares what Lukvance's definition is?

He's the OP, he started the discussion, he's the one making the question in an attempt to support his argument... Just off the top of my head, those are a few reasons why we (including you) should care.

Really, the problem of evil is quite easy to solve. The only concession that apologists have to make is that god isn't omnipotent, which isn't a huge deal when you think about it.

Apologists conceding a point... Now there's a joke I hadn't heard before.

Assuming the OP believes that god is omnipotent, then there's not much to the conversation or thread. You already killed it with your first post. What follows now will be the usual circle jerk of atheists high fiving each other as they mock and ridicule the OP for his beliefs, typically line by line, before the OP gets bored/distracted/raptured and goes somewhere else. I get that that's how this site has been operating for years, gleefully pointing out logical fallacies to drive by christians who write one post and never return to read the responses, but its the same old song and dance. This forum is called general religious discussion.

Also, apologists make concessions all the time. Any christian who doesn't believe in an inerrant bible, by definition, has made concessions. Its not that big a deal. There was nothing in the bible that says god is omnipotent. Feel free to show me a verse saying that he is, because last time I checked, being unable to defeat iron chariots kind of disqualifies you from omnipotence. IIRC, the whole omniscience, omnipotence, omnipresence thing only happened in the middle ages when the church discovered the greek philosophers, and began developing a more philosophical rigor toward their theology. But its not biblical by any stretch of the imagination.

Offline fishjie

  • Undergraduate
  • ***
  • Posts: 242
  • Darwins +12/-0
Re: How should God intervene against evil? Should it be systematic?
« Reply #25 on: July 30, 2014, 06:16:22 PM »
By the way, the next time you ask "Do you believe that love exist." Could you do us all a favor and put an 's' on the end of the last word so that we English speakers won't have to grit our teeth so hard when we read it.

From the way Luk posts he most likely isn't a native english speaker so insulting him for that is really uncalled for

Anyway on topic, god isn't omnipotent. Omnipotence isn't a logically consistent trait (make a rock so hard you can't lift it), so its not possible for any being to possess it. So now that that's out of the way, the question becomes whether or not ends justify the means, which is a much more interesting ethical discussion.
you only have to "lift" the rock if there is gravity involved. God could make a rock the size of the universe.....if there is no gravity field to make it "heavy"

wtf are you babbling about, your response makes no sense. can god make a rock so heavy that he can NOT lift it. If there is no gravity to make it heavy, then god can lift it, which means he did NOT create something so heavy he couldn't lift.

Online One Above All

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 11041
  • Darwins +285/-37
  • Supreme ruler of the multiverse; All In One
Re: How should God intervene against evil? Should it be systematic?
« Reply #26 on: July 30, 2014, 06:24:23 PM »
Assuming the OP believes that god is omnipotent, then there's not much to the conversation or thread. You already killed it with your first post.

He does and I did.

Also, apologists make concessions all the time. Any christian who doesn't believe in an inerrant bible, by definition, has made concessions. Its not that big a deal.

Conceding something, to me, is admitting that you were wrong about something; not that something else is not perfect.

There was nothing in the bible that says god is omnipotent. Feel free to show me a verse saying that he is, because last time I checked, being unable to defeat iron chariots kind of disqualifies you from omnipotence.

There are many verses that say YHWH is omnipotent, and several that disprove it.
Quote from: Jeremiah 32:27 ESV
Behold, I am the Lord, the God of all flesh. Is anything too hard for me?
Quote from: Matthew 19:26 ESV
But Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”
Quote from: Luke 1:37 ESV
For nothing will be impossible with God.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken_rjcf/Lucifer/All In One.

Offline 12 Monkeys

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 4617
  • Darwins +105/-11
  • Gender: Male
  • Dii hau dang ijii
Re: How should God intervene against evil? Should it be systematic?
« Reply #27 on: July 30, 2014, 06:28:38 PM »
By the way, the next time you ask "Do you believe that love exist." Could you do us all a favor and put an 's' on the end of the last word so that we English speakers won't have to grit our teeth so hard when we read it.

From the way Luk posts he most likely isn't a native english speaker so insulting him for that is really uncalled for

Anyway on topic, god isn't omnipotent. Omnipotence isn't a logically consistent trait (make a rock so hard you can't lift it), so its not possible for any being to possess it. So now that that's out of the way, the question becomes whether or not ends justify the means, which is a much more interesting ethical discussion.
you only have to "lift" the rock if there is gravity involved. God could make a rock the size of the universe.....if there is no gravity field to make it "heavy"

wtf are you babbling about, your response makes no sense. can god make a rock so heavy that he can NOT lift it. If there is no gravity to make it heavy, then god can lift it, which means he did NOT create something so heavy he couldn't lift.
GRAVITY is the factor I was stressing,there had to be gravity for something to be heavy...that is all. Gravity effects us because we are in orbit around a star in our solar system. I was trying to point out God has to be effected by gravity for the rock to be heavy.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2014, 06:34:49 PM by 12 Monkeys »
There's no right there's no wrong,there's just popular opinion (Brad Pitt as Jeffery Goines in 12 monkeys)

Offline ParkingPlaces

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 6469
  • Darwins +770/-6
  • Gender: Male
  • Hide and Seek World Champion since 1958!
Re: How should God intervene against evil? Should it be systematic?
« Reply #28 on: July 30, 2014, 07:26:33 PM »
Anyway on topic, god isn't omnipotent.

Not according to Lukvance's definition. Your point is moot.

Who cares what Lukvance's definition is? Perhaps you don't understand how interweb forums work. Someone starts a discussion, and then the discussions evolves and takes twists and turns as necessary. Really, the problem of evil is quite easy to solve. The only concession that apologists have to make is that god isn't omnipotent, which isn't a huge deal when you think about it.

You forgot to mention the people who show up and tell everyone what to do. Forum-nazi's, so to speak.
Not everyone is entitled to their own opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.