Author Topic: Theists, If intelligent life akin to ours was found elsewhere in the universe.  (Read 422 times)

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Offline epidemic

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If there is a planet in the universe where there are creatures capable of Math, science, love, hate, anger, happiness and so on...   Would this revelation change your view of the bible?

Where do you think that this creature would fit into religion?  Would they go to heaven?  Would god care about them?

Online jdawg70

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Some theists would argue that there simply is no intelligent extraterrestrial life:

http://blogs.answersingenesis.org/blogs/ken-ham/2014/07/20/well-find-a-new-earth-within-20-years/[1].

According to Ken "I'm-a-complete-and-utter-f*cking-ignorant-moron-and-I-want-you-to-be-one-too" Ham, space exploration is simply part and parcel with the human agenda of rebelling against god.  Life on Earth was created special.  We're the purpose of the instantiation of reality.  We shouldn't expect to find others out there, because the universe was made for us.

When will you arrogant atheists finally stop all of this damn rebellion and finally acknowledge your vastly important and special place in the existence of all reality?
 1. Found at: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2014/07/21/creationist-ken-ham-we-should-stop-exploring-space-because-the-bible-says-aliens-would-go-to-hell/
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."

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Online Foxy Freedom

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We already know there were other intelligent species on our planet.

Neanderthals. Have they all gone to heaven ?
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Offline Mrjason

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Neanderthals. Have they all gone to heaven ?

Yes, because they were Neanderthal-god's chosen people pre-destined to be swept up to Nheaven come Neanderthal-armageddon and the return of nesus.

Either that or they fell off the back of the evolutionary conveyer belt and remain only as fragments of DNA.

Offline Energized

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<sarcasm>

Neanderthals? Th' ain't no such thing, praise Gawd! You believe in evolution, you godless sodomite? Gawd made us like we is now, dontcha know! We was made perfect jes' like Him!

Oh? Y'all found some bones?

Why them's are bones like them dy-naw-sar bones that the devil put in the ground to trick us! Praise Gawd, th' earth's only 10,000 years old, Praise Jay-sus! You talkin' nonesense! Ya'll need Jay-sus in yer life, ya buncha heathens! Jes' let Gawd in! He'll make it ALLLL better. </sarcasm>

E.
'O pitiful shadow lost in the darkness,
Bringing torment and pain to others.
O damned soul wallowing in your sin.
Perhaps it is time to die?'

~Enma Ai, Jigoku Shoujo

Offline Mrjason

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<sarcasm>

Neanderthals? Th' ain't no such thing, praise Gawd! You believe in evolution, you godless sodomite? Gawd made us like we is now, dontcha know! We was made perfect jes' like Him!

Oh? Y'all found some bones?

Why them's are bones like them dy-naw-sar bones that the devil put in the ground to trick us! Praise Gawd, th' earth's only 10,000 years old, Praise Jay-sus! You talkin' nonesense! Ya'll need Jay-sus in yer life, ya buncha heathens! Jes' let Gawd in! He'll make it ALLLL better. </sarcasm>

E.

My mistake, sounds like Neanderthals are alive and well!  ;)

Online wright

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The only way Ken Ham could be more ignorant would be if there were two of him.

As to the OP, there would be theists who could accept the idea and those who couldn't. The more intellectually robust (or just better at rationalizing) would quote John 10:16:
Quote
And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd.

That's the way apologetics works, from watching theists on this and other forums.
Live a good life... If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. I am not afraid.
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Online YRM_DM

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Hopefully it's just a matter of time before they find out stuff about Ken Hamm like they've done about every other major Christian leader... and he's totally discredited as a person.  It makes me sick that anyone could find him believable.
You can't spell BELIEVE without LIE...  and a few other letters.  B and E and V and I think E.

Online One Above All

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*puts on theist thought-elimination hat #1*
Life won't ever be found on other planets because DA LAWD made the Universe just for us.
*takes off theist thought-elimination hat #1*

The previous hat makes you unable to consider hypothetical questions that go against your preconceptions.

*puts on theist thought-elimination hat #2*
If life is found on other planets, it will be proof of how amazing DA LAWD's power is. It's all right there in the Bible, see?!?!?!?!?!?(...)
*takes off theist thought-elimination hat #2*

The previous hat makes you able to rationalize anything.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

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Offline Energized

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Hopefully it's just a matter of time before they find out stuff about Ken Hamm like they've done about every other major Christian leader... and he's totally discredited as a person.  It makes me sick that anyone could find him believable.

Well, when Bill Nye has a lapse in judgement and debates the guy (for honorable reasons, I know) it gives Hamm credibility he most certainly doesn't deserve. Type in "Bill Nye and Ken Hamm debate" into YouTube and the atheists say Nye won and the christians say Hamm won. And when you're dealing with an 80% christian base in the States, Bill Nye's goal of educating people backfired big time IMO.

I fall into the camp of "dunno" when it comes to life on other planets. It would be cool if they found something somewhere. When I was a believer, I recall having this exact discussion with other christian friends and I brought it to our youth group leader. He told me that just because the bible didn't specifically mention life on other planets shouldn't mean that god didn't create them either.  But IIRC, I remember a seed of skepticism start to creep into my belief at the thought of it... too bad it took another 15 years before it and other seeds grew into a forest that freed me.

E. 

 
'O pitiful shadow lost in the darkness,
Bringing torment and pain to others.
O damned soul wallowing in your sin.
Perhaps it is time to die?'

~Enma Ai, Jigoku Shoujo

Offline epidemic

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Hopefully it's just a matter of time before they find out stuff about Ken Hamm like they've done about every other major Christian leader... and he's totally discredited as a person.  It makes me sick that anyone could find him believable.

Well, when Bill Nye has a lapse in judgement and debates the guy (for honorable reasons, I know) it gives Hamm credibility he most certainly doesn't deserve. Type in "Bill Nye and Ken Hamm debate" into YouTube and the atheists say Nye won and the christians say Hamm won. And when you're dealing with an 80% christian base in the States, Bill Nye's goal of educating people backfired big time IMO.

I fall into the camp of "dunno" when it comes to life on other planets. It would be cool if they found something somewhere. When I was a believer, I recall having this exact discussion with other christian friends and I brought it to our youth group leader. He told me that just because the bible didn't specifically mention life on other planets shouldn't mean that god didn't create them either.  But IIRC, I remember a seed of skepticism start to creep into my belief at the thought of it... too bad it took another 15 years before it and other seeds grew into a forest that freed me.

E.


You know I don't know I would call it a bad decision for Bill Nye, there are many fence sitters.  He could have sparked a new atheist or two.  Those entrenches on either side of the issue probably did not move much.  I thought Bill Nye put forth a coherent argument in most cases and that Hamm simply did not measure up.   So I would say that fence sitters on probably fell more toward Nye than Hamm.

Online YRM_DM

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Hopefully it's just a matter of time before they find out stuff about Ken Hamm like they've done about every other major Christian leader... and he's totally discredited as a person.  It makes me sick that anyone could find him believable.

Well, when Bill Nye has a lapse in judgement and debates the guy (for honorable reasons, I know) it gives Hamm credibility he most certainly doesn't deserve. Type in "Bill Nye and Ken Hamm debate" into YouTube and the atheists say Nye won and the christians say Hamm won. And when you're dealing with an 80% christian base in the States, Bill Nye's goal of educating people backfired big time IMO.

I fall into the camp of "dunno" when it comes to life on other planets. It would be cool if they found something somewhere. When I was a believer, I recall having this exact discussion with other christian friends and I brought it to our youth group leader. He told me that just because the bible didn't specifically mention life on other planets shouldn't mean that god didn't create them either.  But IIRC, I remember a seed of skepticism start to creep into my belief at the thought of it... too bad it took another 15 years before it and other seeds grew into a forest that freed me.

E.

The problem with the debate is that when Ken Hamm says things like, "Bill Nye doesn't have the answers but I have a book right here that gives me the answers..."

Bill Nye needs to point out some of the more offensive Biblical verses at that point.  He needs to say that many Christians have come to view these old testament stories as fables for that very reason.

It seems like, in these debates, atheists are content to let Theists point at the bible, but they're not willing to call out the problems of the bible.

There needs to be more clear, debate winning sound bites from atheists in these debates...

Something like this.   "You're saying it's most plausible to believe that a hundred billion galaxies with a hundred billion stars and planets were all created 6,000 years ago by a god who got angry and flooded the earth to kill every man, woman and child except Noah, and pulled some magical bath tub drain to let the water drain off creating the grand canyon...

...and from there, those 8 people repopulated 7,000,000,000 people in 4,000 years without incest, and kangaroos hopped back across the ocean to Australia without leaving a single fossil  (did they survive in the belly of a whale on their trip back?)... but that same God thought it'd make more sense to write chapters on killing and burning animal sacrifices and correct ways to beat your slaves than to spend any effort writing in convincing proof that he is real?

And THAT's the book you hold up as your evidence?   Did a talking snake tell you that?"


There needs to be more... I dunno, INCREDULOUS soundbites calling out the Bible for what it is.   It needs to be called out and made fun of so that when Christian's point to it as their evidence, it's obvious how weak of a position that is.




You can't spell BELIEVE without LIE...  and a few other letters.  B and E and V and I think E.

Offline epidemic

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No theist takers on the idea of alien life and it's implications to religion here on earth.

jstwebbrowsing
skeptic???

I know there is the easy answer well it does not exist.  But if we luck out and find bacteria on uropa or evidence of past life on Mars


Would finding bacterial life on another planet impact your belief system at all?
Woud findign intelligent life on in the universe impact your belief system at all?

Online Jstwebbrowsing

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No theist takers on the idea of alien life and it's implications to religion here on earth.

jstwebbrowsing
skeptic???

I know there is the easy answer well it does not exist.  But if we luck out and find bacteria on uropa or evidence of past life on Mars


Would finding bacterial life on another planet impact your belief system at all?
Woud findign intelligent life on in the universe impact your belief system at all?

I can't keep up with the three threads I'm already in.  Neither one would affect my faith.  It's like asking me if life was discovered on another planet if I'd stop believing in my dad.  One is as real to me as the other.
Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Isaiah 43:10

Offline epidemic

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Thanks JWB .

Do you think a culture on another planet would be welcome in Jesus's heaven?

Offline Don_Quixote

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Would Jesus need to be born at those planets to save them?  :angel:

Online Jstwebbrowsing

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I don't know the answer to either of those.
Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Isaiah 43:10

Offline Airyaman

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The other world(s) would require their own Jesus, unless God did a better job with them than Earth.
If you are following God why can I still see you?

Offline Philosopher_at_large

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According to Ken "I'm-a-complete-and-utter-f*cking-ignorant-moron-and-I-want-you-to-be-one-too" Ham, space exploration is simply part and parcel with the human agenda of rebelling against god.  Life on Earth was created special.  We're the purpose of the instantiation of reality.  We shouldn't expect to find others out there, because the universe was made for us.

When I read this, I thought it was a joke. I'm completely serious, I thought you were satirizing Ken Ham.

Holy - Fuck, I can't believe that even he would say something THIS stupid.

From the blog: "As the head of NASA, Charles Borden, puts it, “It’s highly improbable in the limitless vastness of the universe that we humans stand alone.” Secularists cannot allow earth to be special or unique—that’s a biblical idea."

First of all, Charles Borden isn't a secularist. One of his goals in visiting the Middle East was to, and I quote: ""to reach out to the Muslim world... to help them feel good about their historic contribution to science... and math and engineering"

Second of all, The idea that the Earth is unique is held, and has been held by non religious people, just for different reasons.

Third of all, the reason that most people today don't think that the earth is unique or special is because of MATH, not secularism.

Holy Fuck, I didn't think that my opinion of this guy could get any lower.
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Online jdawg70

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Holy - Fuck, I can't believe that even he would say something THIS stupid.

Out of curiosity, which would you judge as worse:
1) That Ken Ham genuinely believes these things to be true, and wishes others to believe them.
2) That Ken Ham does not genuinely believe these things to be true, and expresses these opinions because he believes his constituency believes them to be true.

I find both scenarios appalling at roughly the same magnitudes, though appalling for different reasons.  In order for Ken Ham to hold his position, he needs to be woefully ignorant, and frankly, he is in a position of influence where he owes bearing the responsibility of informing himself to himself and his constituency.  So it is either willful ignorance (which is appalling) or some aspect of his beliefs are denying his acceptance of rather straightforward fact - that there is no anti-deity agenda behind space exploration.  And option 2 is plainly dishonest without justification.

I suppose there are other options besides the two, though nothing is coming to me at the moment.
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."

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