Author Topic: Skeptic, do satan and or demons fear god?  (Read 1899 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline epidemic

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 908
  • Darwins +61/-14
Skeptic, do satan and or demons fear god?
« on: July 16, 2014, 12:31:47 PM »
God has already cursed the angels who rose up including Satan.  I don't exactly know where demons actually reside in religious dogma but I always assumed they were cursed angels.  But no matter how you slice it their fate has been fortold.  In the end times god is going to wipe them out.  Until then they are allowed to roam free posessing the bodies of little girls and making them spew pea soup until the rapture.  Apparently they are also allowed to confuse man by taking over the holy mother church.

What on earth or in heaven do they have to fear?

A demon is kinda like a guy on death row being told he better tuck his shirt in or they will extend his sentence beyond death. God does not seem to in take any action today beyond a few riturals to get demons out of little girls.

Apparently according to popular culture magic words and holy water make staying in a given body an annoyance.

Offline epidemic

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 908
  • Darwins +61/-14
Re: Skeptic, do satan and or demons fear god?
« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2014, 12:31:53 PM »
bump^^^

Skeptic?

Offline epidemic

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 908
  • Darwins +61/-14
Re: Skeptic, do satan and or demons fear god?
« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2014, 08:35:20 AM »
skeptic, jstwebbrowsing, any theist?

This question has serious implications, can you please chime in and explain if and or why demons are afraid of god?

Offline Anfauglir

  • Global Moderator
  • ******
  • Posts: 6198
  • Darwins +408/-5
  • Gender: Male
Re: Skeptic, do satan and or demons fear god?
« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2014, 08:57:05 AM »
Interesting.

Of course Yahweh - and all his followers - know full well that at the end of time, the forces of good will triumph and splat will go all the demons, no contest.  Its just in the meantime that Yahweh does little or nothing to stop them.

So perhaps the demons could be forgiven for NOT accepting that - one day - they will lose.  Any parent will know that threats of future action that are never carried out soon lose their force.  Tell your toddler that "keep doing that, and one day I will punish you", and he may leave off for a couple days.  But if he goes back to his bad habits, and hears the same thing yet again.....his little brain will definitely make the connection "well, nothing bad is going to happen to me NOW".  And he may also think to himself "I wonder if that punishment will EVER happen?  Dad's been talking about it for years now, and nothing ever happens".

In short......is Yahweh's extended failure to deal with the demons on earth in some way actually encouraging them to do bad things?
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline Jstwebbrowsing

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1687
  • Darwins +32/-110
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: Skeptic, do satan and or demons fear god?
« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2014, 10:16:56 AM »
skeptic, jstwebbrowsing, any theist?

This question has serious implications, can you please chime in and explain if and or why demons are afraid of god?

According to scripture they do.

"You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that--and shudder." (James 2:19)
Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Isaiah 43:10

Online jynnan tonnix

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1781
  • Darwins +88/-1
  • Gender: Female
Re: Skeptic, do satan and or demons fear god?
« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2014, 10:36:52 AM »
This makes me wonder, too, does a demon have free will?  Can a demon break the monotony and do a good deed? What if a demon just gets tired of an existence of all evil all the time?

Offline epidemic

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 908
  • Darwins +61/-14
Re: Skeptic, do satan and or demons fear god?
« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2014, 11:23:50 AM »
skeptic, jstwebbrowsing, any theist?

This question has serious implications, can you please chime in and explain if and or why demons are afraid of god?

According to scripture they do.

"You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that--and shudder." (James 2:19)

I understand what scripture says.   But it seems illogical, they know they have already been judged and found guilty.  Their execution date is uncertain but it is cast in stone somewhere.  God is not taking action currently so they know full well they have free reign.  Why fear any action they could take now knowing full well that there will be no response and they are dead anyway (are doomed).

I guess they could technically be afraid but only of the date they are going to  be wiped from existence when god finally gets around to eliminating sin.

But they know that their actions today and for the forseable future will not result in a response and pretty much nothing they can do today or in the forseable future will give them a reprieve.

Offline jdawg70

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 2271
  • Darwins +412/-8
  • Ex-rosary squad
  • User is on moderator watch listWatched
Re: Skeptic, do satan and or demons fear god?
« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2014, 12:46:05 PM »
Demons don't destroy books with evidence for God. They are too scared to do something like that because they fear God too much.

So yes, demons fear god.  They're too afraid of god to destroy books with evidence for god.  Though apparently they aren't afraid of god enough to, say, not go around tricking a bunch of people into turning away from god.  Like taking control of a really, really big church and all that jazz.  But no destroying books.  God might get pissed.

Which is weird.
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."

- Eddie Izzard

http://deepaksducttape.wordpress.com/

Offline Airyaman

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 4173
  • Darwins +17/-2
  • Gender: Male
  • Alignment: True Neutral
    • Moving Beyond Faith
Re: Skeptic, do satan and or demons fear god?
« Reply #8 on: July 18, 2014, 01:05:01 PM »
On a side note, why would demons care if there were books about gods? Books contain all sorts of things, much that is simply fiction. To say that any book is evidence of any gods is, well, bollocks.
If you are following God why can I still see you?

Offline ParkingPlaces

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 6620
  • Darwins +791/-6
  • Gender: Male
  • If you are religious, you are misconcepted
Re: Skeptic, do satan and or demons fear god?
« Reply #9 on: July 18, 2014, 01:32:43 PM »
Demons don't destroy books with evidence for God. They are too scared to do something like that because they fear God too much.

So yes, demons fear god.  They're too afraid of god to destroy books with evidence for god.  Though apparently they aren't afraid of god enough to, say, not go around tricking a bunch of people into turning away from god.  Like taking control of a really, really big church and all that jazz.  But no destroying books.  God might get pissed.

Which is weird.

So, this brings up a question. I can burn a bible. I can dump it in the mud. I can toss one in the leaf shredder. If I did that, it couldn't be the demons making me to it because that's against the rules. So what would my motivation be? Presumably all my other non-godly motivations are caused by demons, but destroying a bible would, by biblical standards, not be the work of demons.

You know, its almost like all this stuff is made up and that those that concocted the stories didn't think about all the variables/parameters.

Jesus, the cracker flavored treat!

Offline Jstwebbrowsing

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1687
  • Darwins +32/-110
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: Skeptic, do satan and or demons fear god?
« Reply #10 on: July 18, 2014, 09:56:03 PM »
skeptic, jstwebbrowsing, any theist?

This question has serious implications, can you please chime in and explain if and or why demons are afraid of god?

According to scripture they do.

"You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that--and shudder." (James 2:19)

I understand what scripture says.   But it seems illogical, they know they have already been judged and found guilty.  Their execution date is uncertain but it is cast in stone somewhere.  God is not taking action currently so they know full well they have free reign.  Why fear any action they could take now knowing full well that there will be no response and they are dead anyway (are doomed).

I guess they could technically be afraid but only of the date they are going to  be wiped from existence when god finally gets around to eliminating sin.

But they know that their actions today and for the forseable future will not result in a response and pretty much nothing they can do today or in the forseable future will give them a reprieve.

Yes, this is true.  This is what fills them with anger which they vent toward the earth.  The Bible speaks about the "last days".  While he was on earth Christ was anointed king at his baptism but he did not then begin ruling.  The last days begin when Christ takes over full rulership.  His first act as heavenly king is to cast Satan out of heaven "down to the earth" -- Rev 12:9.

Until that time Satan had access to heaven.  We get a peek at his life in heaven in the book of Job.  Finally Job gets his justice, "For the accuser of our brothers and sisters, who accuses them before our God day and night, has been hurled down." (Rev 12:10)

Then look what it says concerning the earth.  "But woe to the earth and the sea, because the devil has gone down to you! He is filled with fury, because he knows that his time is short.”

This anger manifests itself in the signs that Jesus gave that would mark the sign of his presence.  "You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come.7Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places.8All these are the beginning of birth pains."

This is a manifestation of Satan's anger.  Since these things have always occured, and Jesus knew that, in order for them to be a "sign" these things would all have to be evident in a major and global way, "as lightning may be seen in the east even to the west".  It would have to be something that sticks out above the rest.  We believe those signs appeared in a significant way during the time of World War I and continued to be very prominant through World War II. 

We believe those were the first manifestations of Satan's great anger, along with their accompanying disease and starvation epidemics.  If you look at them as earthquakes in human society, we are still experiencing the aftershocks.  Satan's anger revolves around rulership of this earth although, he seems to be adopting a "scorched earth" policy.  That is why in these modern times rulership of this earth has become such a burning issue and notably has been since World War I.  That is also when the first world government was introduced as the League of Nations.  Satan is consolidating his power.  It will all reach a crescendo and then Satan will be caught and bound for 1000 years and the "Kings of the earth" will be defeated at Armaggedon.

"In the time of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed, nor will it be left to another people. It will crush all those kingdoms and bring them to an end, but it will itself endure forever." (Dan 2:44)

This is a little more than you asked for.  They fear their destruction and react in anger.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2014, 10:14:22 PM by Jstwebbrowsing »
Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Isaiah 43:10

Offline dloubet

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1404
  • Darwins +82/-1
  • Gender: Male
    • Denisloubet.com
Re: Skeptic, do satan and or demons fear god?
« Reply #11 on: July 19, 2014, 12:17:07 AM »
But to completely screw up God's plan, all the Satan character has to do is sit on its hands. If it doesn't create the antichrist, then armageddon does not proceed as planned.

Unless the Satan character works for the God, and will dutifully cooperate with the God's wishes.

Or maybe the Satan character is the God's slave and has no free will, and was created to hit its marks and say the lines written by the God character.

Those last two choices sort of blur the line between Satan and the God, don't they?
Denis Loubet

Offline skeptic54768

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 2738
  • Darwins +53/-443
  • Gender: Male
  • Christianity is the most beautiful religion.
  • User is on moderator watch listWatched
Re: Skeptic, do satan and or demons fear god?
« Reply #12 on: July 19, 2014, 12:54:49 AM »
But to completely screw up God's plan, all the Satan character has to do is sit on its hands. If it doesn't create the antichrist, then armageddon does not proceed as planned.

Unless the Satan character works for the God, and will dutifully cooperate with the God's wishes.

Or maybe the Satan character is the God's slave and has no free will, and was created to hit its marks and say the lines written by the God character.

Those last two choices sort of blur the line between Satan and the God, don't they?

Excellent point, once again.

However, think of it like a movie you've seen. Before you see it, you don't know what's gonna happen, and the characters still had free will. Then, you see the movie and know what's gonna happen and nothing is gonna change that.

Well, the world is like a movie that God has seen before but we have never seen yet. So, the prophecy is just telling us humans what Satan will do later on in the end times. It's not going to change.

Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline Jstwebbrowsing

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1687
  • Darwins +32/-110
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: Skeptic, do satan and or demons fear god?
« Reply #13 on: July 19, 2014, 01:02:46 AM »
But to completely screw up God's plan, all the Satan character has to do is sit on its hands. If it doesn't create the antichrist, then armageddon does not proceed as planned.

Unless the Satan character works for the God, and will dutifully cooperate with the God's wishes.

Or maybe the Satan character is the God's slave and has no free will, and was created to hit its marks and say the lines written by the God character.

Those last two choices sort of blur the line between Satan and the God, don't they?

The antichrist already exists.  It is that which sits in place of Christ's rulership of this world.  If Satan rules this world, he rules it through government.  The wordwide conglomerate garble of human government that rules in opposition to Christ has been revealed to be the antichrist.

The false prophet are the [2] nations [heads] that lead in the creation of an image of all of this government [wild beast], that is, the United Nations, formerly the League of Nations.  It is this false prophet that preaches to the world it's enlightened form of government that everyone should convert to.  It performs many miraculous signs and even makes fire come from heaven in "shock and awe" campaigns.  It convinces people it's form of rulership is the best hope for mankind, in opposition to Christ, in effect causing them to worship the antichrist.  In effect, patriotism and nationalism is the religion of the antichrist.
Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Isaiah 43:10

Online Azdgari

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 12451
  • Darwins +293/-32
  • Gender: Male
Re: Skeptic, do satan and or demons fear god?
« Reply #14 on: July 19, 2014, 02:35:50 AM »
However, think of it like a movie you've seen. Before you see it, you don't know what's gonna happen, and the characters still had free will. Then, you see the movie and know what's gonna happen and nothing is gonna change that.

This seems very odd to me.  Do you really believe that until you watch a movie, the characters in it have free will?  What if someone else has seen the movie, but you havn't?
I have not encountered any mechanical malfunctioning in my spirit.  It works every single time I need it to.

Online jynnan tonnix

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1781
  • Darwins +88/-1
  • Gender: Female
Re: Skeptic, do satan and or demons fear god?
« Reply #15 on: July 19, 2014, 03:37:54 AM »
However, think of it like a movie you've seen. Before you see it, you don't know what's gonna happen, and the characters still had free will. Then, you see the movie and know what's gonna happen and nothing is gonna change that.

This seems very odd to me.  Do you really believe that until you watch a movie, the characters in it have free will?  What if someone else has seen the movie, but you havn't?

Indeed. You may not know what is going to happen next, but you know that the movie has a set plot and that the actors are working from a script. There is only one possible way for it to play out, and your not knowing what that is doesn't mean that the characters are free in any way.

Offline dloubet

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1404
  • Darwins +82/-1
  • Gender: Male
    • Denisloubet.com
Re: Skeptic, do satan and or demons fear god?
« Reply #16 on: July 19, 2014, 05:14:53 AM »
But to completely screw up God's plan, all the Satan character has to do is sit on its hands. If it doesn't create the antichrist, then armageddon does not proceed as planned.

Unless the Satan character works for the God, and will dutifully cooperate with the God's wishes.

Or maybe the Satan character is the God's slave and has no free will, and was created to hit its marks and say the lines written by the God character.

Those last two choices sort of blur the line between Satan and the God, don't they?

Excellent point, once again.

However, think of it like a movie you've seen. Before you see it, you don't know what's gonna happen, and the characters still had free will. Then, you see the movie and know what's gonna happen and nothing is gonna change that.

Well, the world is like a movie that God has seen before but we have never seen yet. So, the prophecy is just telling us humans what Satan will do later on in the end times. It's not going to change.

No. If the god can tell you what you're going to do, and you can't do anything to change that, then free will does not exist.

In fact, prophecy -- if true -- grants things like immortality. If I am told by the god that I will eat pizza tomorrow night, then I am essentially immortal until I eat that pizza. I cannot be killed, I cannot be destroyed. Nothing can happen to me that will prevent me from eating pizza tomorrow night.

Unfortunately, likewise, I cannot do anything that will prevent me from eating pizza tomorrow night. I cannot arrange events to prevent pizza. I cannot even kill myself to prevent pizza. Somehow, I will eat pizza tomorrow night. No amount of will, free or otherwise, will change that.

If you cannot change your course having heard a prophecy, then you have no free will. You never did. The Satan character couldn't have it, the deny-Jesus-three-times guy couldn't have it, no one could have it. The existence of prophecy precludes free will.

And no. Whether you know it or not, your actors are just hitting their marks, thinking their scripted thoughts, and saying their lines. No free will involved.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2014, 05:18:06 AM by dloubet »
Denis Loubet

Offline skeptic54768

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 2738
  • Darwins +53/-443
  • Gender: Male
  • Christianity is the most beautiful religion.
  • User is on moderator watch listWatched
Re: Skeptic, do satan and or demons fear god?
« Reply #17 on: July 20, 2014, 02:07:21 AM »
No. If the god can tell you what you're going to do, and you can't do anything to change that, then free will does not exist.

In fact, prophecy -- if true -- grants things like immortality. If I am told by the god that I will eat pizza tomorrow night, then I am essentially immortal until I eat that pizza. I cannot be killed, I cannot be destroyed. Nothing can happen to me that will prevent me from eating pizza tomorrow night.

Unfortunately, likewise, I cannot do anything that will prevent me from eating pizza tomorrow night. I cannot arrange events to prevent pizza. I cannot even kill myself to prevent pizza. Somehow, I will eat pizza tomorrow night. No amount of will, free or otherwise, will change that.

If you cannot change your course having heard a prophecy, then you have no free will. You never did. The Satan character couldn't have it, the deny-Jesus-three-times guy couldn't have it, no one could have it. The existence of prophecy precludes free will.

And no. Whether you know it or not, your actors are just hitting their marks, thinking their scripted thoughts, and saying their lines. No free will involved.

This is truly mind-boggling stuff. My brain hurts just reading this post. I see the point you are trying to make, but I just don't agree with it.

It certainly hurts to think about it, though.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline voodoo child

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1823
  • Darwins +10/-0
  • Gender: Male
Re: Skeptic, do satan and or demons fear god?
« Reply #18 on: July 20, 2014, 02:17:21 AM »
No. If the god can tell you what you're going to do, and you can't do anything to change that, then free will does not exist.

In fact, prophecy -- if true -- grants things like immortality. If I am told by the god that I will eat pizza tomorrow night, then I am essentially immortal until I eat that pizza. I cannot be killed, I cannot be destroyed. Nothing can happen to me that will prevent me from eating pizza tomorrow night.

Unfortunately, likewise, I cannot do anything that will prevent me from eating pizza tomorrow night. I cannot arrange events to prevent pizza. I cannot even kill myself to prevent pizza. Somehow, I will eat pizza tomorrow night. No amount of will, free or otherwise, will change that.

If you cannot change your course having heard a prophecy, then you have no free will. You never did. The Satan character couldn't have it, the deny-Jesus-three-times guy couldn't have it, no one could have it. The existence of prophecy precludes free will.

And no. Whether you know it or not, your actors are just hitting their marks, thinking their scripted thoughts, and saying their lines. No free will involved.

This is truly mind-boggling stuff. My brain hurts just reading this post. I see the point you are trying to make, but I just don't agree with it.

It certainly hurts to think about it, though.


How on earth would that hurt your brain?  It’s so simple, if there is a god and it has a plan there is no free will.   facepalm. 
The classical man is just a bundle of routine, ideas and tradition. If you follow the classical pattern, you are understanding the routine, the tradition, the shadow, you are not understanding yourself. Truth has no path. Truth is living and therefore changing. Bruce lee

Online Azdgari

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 12451
  • Darwins +293/-32
  • Gender: Male
Re: Skeptic, do satan and or demons fear god?
« Reply #19 on: July 20, 2014, 02:58:04 AM »
If the bulk of dloubet's post hurts the brain too much to read again (it shouldn't be; the concepts are really simple), then could you answer this?  It's about a rather odd little claim you put in your own post.

I don't consider characters in movies to be real live people; they are performed by real actors, but that's in the past.  In the present, the DVD sitting on my shelf depicts fictional characters whose actions are not free at all, because their actions are controlled by the physical state of the DVD.  And unless I leave the DVD sitting on my car's dash on a hot day, that physical state isn't changing any time soon.

However, think of it like a movie you've seen. Before you see it, you don't know what's gonna happen, and the characters still had free will. Then, you see the movie and know what's gonna happen and nothing is gonna change that.

This seems very odd to me.  Do you really believe that until you watch a movie, the characters in it have free will?  What if someone else has seen the movie, but you havn't?
I have not encountered any mechanical malfunctioning in my spirit.  It works every single time I need it to.

Offline dloubet

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1404
  • Darwins +82/-1
  • Gender: Male
    • Denisloubet.com
Re: Skeptic, do satan and or demons fear god?
« Reply #20 on: July 20, 2014, 05:05:43 AM »
This is truly mind-boggling stuff. My brain hurts just reading this post. I see the point you are trying to make, but I just don't agree with it.

You just don't agree with it. 

You do realize that not presenting a reason why you don't agree with it means that my argument stands, right? Untouched and unrefuted. It can be referenced in future discussions of free will as a point you have surrendered.  Are you sure you want this epistemological Sword of Damocles hanging over your head?
Denis Loubet

Offline epidemic

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 908
  • Darwins +61/-14
Re: Skeptic, do satan and or demons fear god?
« Reply #21 on: July 21, 2014, 08:17:26 AM »
This is truly mind-boggling stuff. My brain hurts just reading this post. I see the point you are trying to make, but I just don't agree with it.

It certainly hurts to think about it, though.

Think of it this way.  Every outcome that happens is part of gods plan.  My brain takes the inputs from what has already happened and then appears to make a decision given choices.  But since it is ordaned that I will eat pizza all the previous inputs to my mind will lead me to the one decision.  To me it appears to be free choice but I am actually pre-programmed to eat pizza.  Everything in my life up to that moment was set forth in such a way as to insure that I perform this action.

In an omnipotent, omnicient god universe from the instant of the big bang god knew I would type "this right now!".

I may have the impression that I typed it through free will but since god knew i would type it from before I was born, then I was created to fulfill this task and probably more assuming I don't explode right now 

Offline screwtape

  • The Great Red Dragon
  • Administrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 12573
  • Darwins +703/-28
  • Gender: Male
  • Karma mooch
Re: Skeptic, do satan and or demons fear god?
« Reply #22 on: July 21, 2014, 08:35:29 AM »
Excellent point, once again.

However, think of it like a movie you've seen. Before you see it, you don't know what's gonna happen, and the characters still had free will. Then, you see the movie and know what's gonna happen and nothing is gonna change that.

Well, the world is like a movie that God has seen before but we have never seen yet. So, the prophecy is just telling us humans what Satan will do later on in the end times. It's not going to change.

I've seen this analogy used before and it baffled me then as to why it was used.  It argues against your own point.  A movie is a recording.  It cannot change itself.  The events are already set. The outcomes are fixed.  The characters in the movie cannot do anything differently than was already recorded.  No matter how many times you play a movie, it does not change in any way (except for the wear and tear on the meduim).

If reality is like a movie, then your belief in free will is just an illusion.  Events are already set.  They cannot be changed.  The outcomes are fixed.  We as characters cannot do other than what has been recorded.

Links:
Rules
Guides & Tutorials

What's true is already so. Owning up to it does not make it worse.

Offline ParkingPlaces

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 6620
  • Darwins +791/-6
  • Gender: Male
  • If you are religious, you are misconcepted
Re: Skeptic, do satan and or demons fear god?
« Reply #23 on: July 21, 2014, 09:39:06 AM »
Yes, this is true.  This is what fills them with anger which they vent toward the earth.  The Bible speaks about the "last days".  While he was on earth Christ was anointed king at his baptism but he did not then begin ruling.  The last days begin when Christ takes over full rulership.  His first act as heavenly king is to cast Satan out of heaven "down to the earth" -- Rev 12:9.

Until that time Satan had access to heaven.  We get a peek at his life in heaven in the book of Job.  Finally Job gets his justice, "For the accuser of our brothers and sisters, who accuses them before our God day and night, has been hurled down." (Rev 12:10)

Then look what it says concerning the earth.  "But woe to the earth and the sea, because the devil has gone down to you! He is filled with fury, because he knows that his time is short.”

This anger manifests itself in the signs that Jesus gave that would mark the sign of his presence.  "You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come.7Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places.8All these are the beginning of birth pains."

This is a manifestation of Satan's anger.  Since these things have always occured, and Jesus knew that, in order for them to be a "sign" these things would all have to be evident in a major and global way, "as lightning may be seen in the east even to the west".  It would have to be something that sticks out above the rest.  We believe those signs appeared in a significant way during the time of World War I and continued to be very prominant through World War II. 

We believe those were the first manifestations of Satan's great anger, along with their accompanying disease and starvation epidemics.  If you look at them as earthquakes in human society, we are still experiencing the aftershocks.  Satan's anger revolves around rulership of this earth although, he seems to be adopting a "scorched earth" policy.  That is why in these modern times rulership of this earth has become such a burning issue and notably has been since World War I.  That is also when the first world government was introduced as the League of Nations.  Satan is consolidating his power.  It will all reach a crescendo and then Satan will be caught and bound for 1000 years and the "Kings of the earth" will be defeated at Armaggedon.

"In the time of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed, nor will it be left to another people. It will crush all those kingdoms and bring them to an end, but it will itself endure forever." (Dan 2:44)

This is a little more than you asked for.  They fear their destruction and react in anger.

All I can say is that I'm glad I don't live in your little world, you know, the one where you are absofrickiin'lutely helpless, except for the part where you might get to avoid demons if you pick exactly the right version of christianity. Here we all are, helpless puppets, forced to live through this battle between your god and your satan, free will out the door. The fact that we're sinners is being irrelevant because all we can do is sit in front of our TV sets and watch the events prophesied take place. Because there is no way for them not to take place.

And of course, with your god taking his own sweet time about dealing with the devil, he gets to use that as an excuse to threaten us with crispy critterdom if we don't kowtow to his every whim, which he has lots of time for, since he's letting satan run the planet.

This storyline is about at realistic as a good episode of the Teletubbies. But I admire how you don't let that phase you one bit. On your christian diet of unadulterated pablum, you cave to that very human (and very useless) desire to understand everything. And you settle for fiction instead of giving the situation some, oh, you know, thought.

First we're perfect, then we sin, then we're cast out of the garden, then satan takes over, and its all preordained, and the best your god can do is hand out a pamphlet of poorly written prose which explains everything, if you squint your eyes, turn your head sideways and read between the lines.

You and your brethren have constructed a fantasy world, one in which you think you understand everything, know everything, can predict everything, and in which you are helpless, other than thinking that, as individuals, you can selectively choose whose ass to kiss.

Satan's so called "fear" that his time is coming is, and I'm pretty sure this is just a coincidence  &), is exactly the same fear that christians have. That their own lives will actually end at death, a fear so great that they are willing to fantasize their whole lives about alternate endings just so they can make it through the day. You know, the day they've filled with so much terror and foreboding they can't enjoy it anyway.

You're doing it wrong. Each and every one of you. And you're ruining it for the rest of us. If you are able to take even a smidgen of comfort from the story you just told, then you haven't a the slightest idea about what reality is. And yet you're proud of it.

We're born, we live, and we die. That you guys can screw up something that simple is pathetic.

Edit: Spelling. I wish I could edit a few brains too...
« Last Edit: July 21, 2014, 09:47:27 AM by ParkingPlaces »
Jesus, the cracker flavored treat!

Offline 12 Monkeys

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 4658
  • Darwins +106/-11
  • Gender: Male
  • Dii hau dang ijii
Re: Skeptic, do satan and or demons fear god?
« Reply #24 on: July 21, 2014, 09:45:13 AM »
Don't you just love how the theists here can tell us exactly how and why demons do things even how they feel. When asked for evidence of said demons.......NOTHING
There's no right there's no wrong,there's just popular opinion (Brad Pitt as Jeffery Goines in 12 monkeys)

Offline epidemic

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 908
  • Darwins +61/-14
Re: Skeptic, do satan and or demons fear god?
« Reply #25 on: July 21, 2014, 09:51:13 AM »
I would like theist here to explain what exactly demons are afraid of?

Offline jdawg70

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 2271
  • Darwins +412/-8
  • Ex-rosary squad
  • User is on moderator watch listWatched
Re: Skeptic, do satan and or demons fear god?
« Reply #26 on: July 21, 2014, 11:43:08 AM »
This is truly mind-boggling stuff. My brain hurts just reading this post. I see the point you are trying to make, but I just don't agree with it.

It certainly hurts to think about it, though.

That 'hurty' feeling your getting in your brain is the tacit realization that, logically, the thing you want to be true cannot be true (i.e. the movie analogy explaining the simultaneity of the 'actors' possessing free will and the 'director' possessing complete control of the actors fails to actually explain it, and, in fact, reveals some rather glaring holes in your viewpoint and understanding).  The 'hurty' is a result of your brain trying to resolve the discrepancy of:
- Claim X should be true, given how I believe and understand things like claim Y, Z, and G.
- Claim X, upon further and deeper scrutiny, does not appear to actually make any sense.
- But claims Y, Z, and G imply that claim X should be valid.
- Crap, now I have to start scrutinizing claims Y, Z, and G...which, since Y, Z, and G are predicated on claims T and R, I've got to scrutinize those too...
- Ouch.

You've used the movie analogy several times on this forum, and you've gotten push back on it every time.  I think the 'hurty' may be indicative of the flaws in that analogy finally starting to sink in.

This is a good thing, skeptic54768.  Embrace the brain-pain and see how far it gets you.  Start living up to your username.
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."

- Eddie Izzard

http://deepaksducttape.wordpress.com/

Offline Jstwebbrowsing

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1687
  • Darwins +32/-110
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: Skeptic, do satan and or demons fear god?
« Reply #27 on: July 21, 2014, 01:31:47 PM »
All I can say is that I'm glad I don't live in your little world, you know, the one where you are absofrickiin'lutely helpless, except for the part where you might get to avoid demons if you pick exactly the right version of christianity. Here we all are, helpless puppets, forced to live through this battle between your god and your satan, free will out the door. The fact that we're sinners is being irrelevant because all we can do is sit in front of our TV sets and watch the events prophesied take place. Because there is no way for them not to take place.

What you fail to realize is the things prophesied to occur are man made.  "If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened -- Mt 24:22.  This situation is brought about by man, not God.  God intervenes to stop it.

Quote
You and your brethren have constructed a fantasy world, one in which you think you understand everything, know everything, can predict everything, and in which you are helpless, other than thinking that, as individuals, you can selectively choose whose ass to kiss.

If you are not helpless then end the building tensions between the U.S. and Russia.  End the wars in the Middle East.  Stop the problems in Ukraine.  Stop the violence in Africa.  Stop the development of more nuclear weapons and biological weapons.  We are not talking about predictions.  We're talking about reality.  And what are you going to do?  You're going to sit helplessly and watch.

Quote
Satan's so called "fear" that his time is coming is, and I'm pretty sure this is just a coincidence  , is exactly the same fear that christians have. That their own lives will actually end at death, a fear so great that they are willing to fantasize their whole lives about alternate endings just so they can make it through the day. You know, the day they've filled with so much terror and foreboding they can't enjoy it anyway.

Why do you think that?

Quote
You're doing it wrong. Each and every one of you. And you're ruining it for the rest of us.

What am I ruining for you?

Quote
If you are able to take even a smidgen of comfort from the story you just told, then you haven't a the slightest idea about what reality is. And yet you're proud of it.

The only comfort is that God will interefere and he "makes wars cease to the ends of the earth." (Ps 46:9)

Quote
And of course, with your god taking his own sweet time about dealing with the devil, he gets to use that as an excuse to threaten us with crispy critterdom if we don't kowtow to his every whim, which he has lots of time for, since he's letting satan run the planet.

What do you mean "his every whim"?  What are his "whims" for a Christian?

Quote
We're born, we live, and we die.

No that is not correct.  There is going to be a resurrection of the dead because of the "whims" of the creator.




Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Isaiah 43:10

Offline Jstwebbrowsing

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1687
  • Darwins +32/-110
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: Skeptic, do satan and or demons fear god?
« Reply #28 on: July 21, 2014, 01:34:59 PM »
I would like theist here to explain what exactly demons are afraid of?

Jehovah's judgment of them.
Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Isaiah 43:10