Author Topic: Can You Prove My God's Not Real?  (Read 1255 times)

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Online 12 Monkeys

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Re: Can You Prove My God's Not Real?
« Reply #58 on: July 15, 2014, 07:45:09 PM »
This is downright foolish because Santa is described in material terms living in a material word at the North Pole!


Santa is tracked by NORAD every Xmas eve, and this is told to us by US news media, which is totally free and independent from coercive forces.  So we know Santa is out there flying.

Yet he is able to come inside the houses of his followers, and be undetected by residents.  Obviously, he has the ability to be silent and invisible when he wishes.

Since Santa possesses the ability to be silent and invisible, he must also be able to make his HQ invisible and silent as well. 

It is little known by laypeople, but scholars of history and geography know that it is unlikely that Robt. Peary even made it to the north pole in 1909:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Peary#Controversy

Therefore, Santa could have had his HQ 'uncloaked' (to use Star Trek terminology) for many years without being detected.  Of course nowadays, since many homes have home security systems, it is obvious that Santa has and uses cloaking technology or, alternatively, magic.
so we have verifiable scientific proof that Santa exists..... Take that God
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Offline One Above All

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Re: Can You Prove My God's Not Real?
« Reply #59 on: July 15, 2014, 07:46:48 PM »
This is becoming a joke.

If an atheist can't discuss one of the most ongoing debates in the history of the world with seriousness, then I'm afraid there is no hope.

brushing off all the philosophers of the past as jokes is pure arrogance.

If you can refute these arguments, do so. Put up or shut up.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
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We choose our own gods.

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Online 12 Monkeys

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Re: Can You Prove My God's Not Real?
« Reply #60 on: July 15, 2014, 07:50:51 PM »
This is becoming a joke.

If an atheist can't discuss one of the most ongoing debates in the history of the world with seriousness, then I'm afraid there is no hope.

brushing off all the philosophers of the past as jokes is pure arrogance.
dont worry Skeptic,eventually your god,like the thousands of gods before him will be abandoned for a new one. Look at the new religions like Scientology and Mormonism. They have millions of followers,won't be long before the sheep all flock together. Then the debate will be over,sadly though not in our lifetime
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Offline skeptic54768

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Re: Can You Prove My God's Not Real?
« Reply #61 on: July 15, 2014, 07:51:49 PM »
If you can refute these arguments, do so. Put up or shut up.

So you are saying that all of these arguments are legitimate for belief in Santa? 100% seriousness?

If so, then you must believe in God on the same grounds. Otherwise, it's a Tu Quoque logical fallacy. That's the facts.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline One Above All

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Re: Can You Prove My God's Not Real?
« Reply #62 on: July 15, 2014, 07:58:52 PM »
So you are saying that all of these arguments are legitimate for belief in Santa? 100% seriousness?

If so, then you must believe in God on the same grounds. Otherwise, it's a Tu Quoque logical fallacy. That's the facts.

Other way around. You must believe in Santa on the same grounds. The seriousness of these statements is irrelevant to whether or not they are true. I could say "Well, of course pi is irrational! I mean, have you ever had pie? How does something so bad for your body taste so good? It doesn't make any sense!" and it would still be true, even if unfunny as hell.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken_rjcf/Lucifer/All In One.

Offline skeptic54768

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Re: Can You Prove My God's Not Real?
« Reply #63 on: July 15, 2014, 08:07:40 PM »
This is becoming a joke.

If an atheist can't discuss one of the most ongoing debates in the history of the world with seriousness, then I'm afraid there is no hope.

brushing off all the philosophers of the past as jokes is pure arrogance.
dont worry Skeptic,eventually your god,like the thousands of gods before him will be abandoned for a new one. Look at the new religions like Scientology and Mormonism. They have millions of followers,won't be long before the sheep all flock together. Then the debate will be over,sadly though not in our lifetime

It doesn't matter how many people believe/disbelieve in Christianity. It can still be the truth.

Argumentum ad populum is another fallacy, by the way.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Online 12 Monkeys

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Re: Can You Prove My God's Not Real?
« Reply #64 on: July 15, 2014, 08:38:00 PM »
If early Christians did not kill the followers of other gods would more gods exist today? Spreading a religion through fear and murder is effective, but it does not make it real
There's no right there's no wrong,there's just popular opinion (Brad Pitt as Jeffery Goines in 12 monkeys)

Offline skeptic54768

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Re: Can You Prove My God's Not Real?
« Reply #65 on: July 15, 2014, 08:54:26 PM »
If early Christians did not kill the followers of other gods would more gods exist today? Spreading a religion through fear and murder is effective, but it does not make it real

Absolute utter nonsense. It was not spread by murder.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Online 12 Monkeys

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Re: Can You Prove My God's Not Real?
« Reply #66 on: July 15, 2014, 09:05:40 PM »
If you actually think it true you're a bigger dummy than I thought
There's no right there's no wrong,there's just popular opinion (Brad Pitt as Jeffery Goines in 12 monkeys)

Offline skeptic54768

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Re: Can You Prove My God's Not Real?
« Reply #67 on: July 15, 2014, 09:22:15 PM »
If you actually think it true you're a bigger dummy than I thought

i thought we agreed to stop this? The ones who killed were certainly not Christians.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline superfly

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Re: Can You Prove My God's Not Real?
« Reply #68 on: July 15, 2014, 09:31:55 PM »
If you actually think it true you're a bigger dummy than I thought

i thought we agreed to stop this? The ones who killed were certainly not Christians.

No true Scotsman, eh skeptic?
Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith, I consider a capacity for it terrifying and absolutely vile!
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Offline skeptic54768

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Re: Can You Prove My God's Not Real?
« Reply #69 on: July 15, 2014, 09:34:25 PM »
If you actually think it true you're a bigger dummy than I thought

i thought we agreed to stop this? The ones who killed were certainly not Christians.

No true Scotsman, eh skeptic?

No. One has to believe in Jesus and try to keep sinning to a minimum. Clearly, going around killing willy-nilly is not keeping sinning to a minimum.

If somebody was white and they went around saying "I'm black," would you agree they are black?
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline Airyaman

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Re: Can You Prove My God's Not Real?
« Reply #70 on: July 15, 2014, 09:37:58 PM »
If you actually think it true you're a bigger dummy than I thought

i thought we agreed to stop this? The ones who killed were certainly not Christians.

Luk 22:36  He said to them, "But now let the one who has a moneybag take it, and likewise a knapsack. And let the one who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one.
If you are following God why can I still see you?

Offline skeptic54768

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Re: Can You Prove My God's Not Real?
« Reply #71 on: July 15, 2014, 09:45:25 PM »
Luk 22:36  He said to them, "But now let the one who has a moneybag take it, and likewise a knapsack. And let the one who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one.

Yes, for protection against evil-doers.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline superfly

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Re: Can You Prove My God's Not Real?
« Reply #72 on: July 15, 2014, 09:46:55 PM »
OK, where are the near death experiences with people experiencing Santa in the same way they do experience Jesus?
NDE's are a death blow to the atheist which is why they avoid that topic like the plague.

I just did a quick BING search and it seems that the NDEs differ according to culture.

And FWIW, I believe in Santa. I don't need any evidence and anything anyone says to the contrary will be cheerfully ignored. I have FAITH in Santa, I don't need proof, I have Santa in my heart.

Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith, I consider a capacity for it terrifying and absolutely vile!
Kurt Vonnegut

Offline skeptic54768

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Re: Can You Prove My God's Not Real?
« Reply #73 on: July 15, 2014, 09:51:05 PM »
And FWIW, I believe in Santa. I don't need any evidence and anything anyone says to the contrary will be cheerfully ignored. I have FAITH in Santa, I don't need proof, I have Santa in my heart.

Then, believe in Santa.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline superfly

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Re: Can You Prove My God's Not Real?
« Reply #74 on: July 15, 2014, 09:55:48 PM »


No true Scotsman, eh skeptic?



No. One has to believe in Jesus and try to keep sinning to a minimum. Clearly, going around killing willy-nilly is not keeping sinning to a minimum.

If somebody was white and they went around saying "I'm black," would you agree they are black?

Swing and a miss.

There many examples of African-Americans who had very light skin and more Anglo features who use to "pass" as white in Jim Crow America.

And this:
You said: The ones who killed were certainly not Christians. Your statement is the perfect example of the NO TRUE SCOTSMAN FALLACY!

http://www.logicalfallacies.info/presumption/no-true-scotsman/
« Last Edit: July 15, 2014, 10:12:17 PM by superfly »
Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith, I consider a capacity for it terrifying and absolutely vile!
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Offline skeptic54768

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Re: Can You Prove My God's Not Real?
« Reply #75 on: July 15, 2014, 09:59:05 PM »
Swing and a miss.

There many examples of African-Americans who had very light skin and more Anglo features who use to "pass" as white in Jim Crow America.

And this:
You said: The ones who killed were certainly not Christians. Your statement is the perfect example of the NO TRUE SCOTSMAN FALLACY!

http://www.logicalfallacies.info/presumption/no-true-scotsman/

Not when the criteria is clearly laid out in the Bible.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline superfly

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Re: Can You Prove My God's Not Real?
« Reply #76 on: July 15, 2014, 09:59:51 PM »
And FWIW, I believe in Santa. I don't need any evidence and anything anyone says to the contrary will be cheerfully ignored. I have FAITH in Santa, I don't need proof, I have Santa in my heart.

Then, believe in Santa.

Thanks I will. I hope you don't mind that I try to get The Santa story of creation taught in public school instead of that crazy bible god crap or the even sillier Evil-lushun.

I can't wait to hear what you have to say about the NDEs. I'll give you plenty of time to research the subject. There seems to be quite a number of articles regarding this fascinating subject.
Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith, I consider a capacity for it terrifying and absolutely vile!
Kurt Vonnegut

Offline skeptic54768

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Re: Can You Prove My God's Not Real?
« Reply #77 on: July 15, 2014, 10:03:31 PM »
And FWIW, I believe in Santa. I don't need any evidence and anything anyone says to the contrary will be cheerfully ignored. I have FAITH in Santa, I don't need proof, I have Santa in my heart.

Then, believe in Santa.

Thanks I will. I hope you don't mind that I try to get The Santa story of creation taught in public school instead of that crazy bible god crap or the even sillier Evil-lushun.

I can't wait to hear what you have to say about the NDEs. I'll give you plenty of time to research the subject. There seems to be quite a number of articles regarding this fascinating subject.

Not at all. Go right ahead. try to get it taught in schools. Go out and get a group and fight for it. Let's see how far you get.

In all seriousness, please try to stop this silliness.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline superfly

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Re: Can You Prove My God's Not Real?
« Reply #78 on: July 15, 2014, 10:10:56 PM »
Swing and a miss.

There many examples of African-Americans who had very light skin and more Anglo features who use to "pass" as white in Jim Crow America.

And this:
You said: The ones who killed were certainly not Christians. Your statement is the perfect example of the NO TRUE SCOTSMAN FALLACY!

http://www.logicalfallacies.info/presumption/no-true-scotsman/


Not when the criteria is clearly laid out in the Bible.


So, skeptic are you saying, No true Christian would kill?




Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith, I consider a capacity for it terrifying and absolutely vile!
Kurt Vonnegut

Online 12 Monkeys

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Re: Can You Prove My God's Not Real?
« Reply #79 on: July 15, 2014, 10:14:41 PM »
If you actually think it true you're a bigger dummy than I thought
 
i thought we agreed to stop this? The ones who killed were certainly not Christians.

 First off apologies for flying off the handle and calling you a dummy.


They thought they were Christian....and just because you say demons,does not make it true. The Crusades,carried out by Christians,just because you say they are not Christian,does not mean they believed they were not Christian.

 The Simple fact that you believe Christians are just pretending,is your opinion,they believe themselves to be Christian,that is a discussion you have to have with them,not me. The Christians who went around killing for their God also viewed themselves as Christian. The fact you think they are not is based on your opinion on what a Christian should be.

 When it is convenient you lump yourself in with all other Christians,to state a numbers game and how many followers god has(2 billion),but then you separate yourself from 95% of them when it comes to what actual theologies are real. If only a small percentage of Christians are real and not pretending(say 5%) then Christianity as you see it is not a mainstream religion. 95% of Christians are following demons and are in fact NOT christian,right? Can you be a Christian if you follow a Demon or Demons,are they willingly following demons or are they just to stupid to realize they follow false gods

 
 You embrace mainstream Christianity when it works in your favor and abandon it the second it clearly embraces evil actions. If you and the like minded are the true Christians,you are clearly a very small percentage,and the other 95% by your belief are holding demons as their God....and are NOT Christians,that leaves 5% of 2 billion people and makes Christianity as a religion at the same level as Mormons number wise.
There's no right there's no wrong,there's just popular opinion (Brad Pitt as Jeffery Goines in 12 monkeys)

Online 12 Monkeys

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Re: Can You Prove My God's Not Real?
« Reply #80 on: July 15, 2014, 10:18:34 PM »
And FWIW, I believe in Santa. I don't need any evidence and anything anyone says to the contrary will be cheerfully ignored. I have FAITH in Santa, I don't need proof, I have Santa in my heart.

Then, believe in Santa.

Thanks I will. I hope you don't mind that I try to get The Santa story of creation taught in public school instead of that crazy bible god crap or the even sillier Evil-lushun.

I can't wait to hear what you have to say about the NDEs. I'll give you plenty of time to research the subject. There seems to be quite a number of articles regarding this fascinating subject.

Not at all. Go right ahead. try to get it taught in schools. Go out and get a group and fight for it. Let's see how far you get.

In all seriousness, please try to stop this silliness.
They dont teach Santa is real(in public school) for the same reason they dont teach religion,neither are real
There's no right there's no wrong,there's just popular opinion (Brad Pitt as Jeffery Goines in 12 monkeys)

Offline skeptic54768

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Re: Can You Prove My God's Not Real?
« Reply #81 on: July 15, 2014, 10:21:45 PM »
If you actually think it true you're a bigger dummy than I thought
 
i thought we agreed to stop this? The ones who killed were certainly not Christians.

 First off apologies for flying off the handle and calling you a dummy.


They thought they were Christian....and just because you say demons,does not make it true. The Crusades,carried out by Christians,just because you say they are not Christian,does not mean they believed they were not Christian.

 The Simple fact that you believe Christians are just pretending,is your opinion,they believe themselves to be Christian,that is a discussion you have to have with them,not me. The Christians who went around killing for their God also viewed themselves as Christian. The fact you think they are not is based on your opinion on what a Christian should be.

 When it is convenient you lump yourself in with all other Christians,to state a numbers game and how many followers god has(2 billion),but then you separate yourself from 95% of them when it comes to what actual theologies are real. If only a small percentage of Christians are real and not pretending(say 5%) then Christianity as you see it is not a mainstream religion. 95% of Christians are following demons and are in fact NOT christian,right? Can you be a Christian if you follow a Demon or Demons,are they willingly following demons or are they just to stupid to realize they follow false gods

 
 You embrace mainstream Christianity when it works in your favor and abandon it the second it clearly embraces evil actions. If you and the like minded are the true Christians,you are clearly a very small percentage,and the other 95% by your belief are holding demons as their God....and are NOT Christians,that leaves 5% of 2 billion people and makes Christianity as a religion at the same level as Mormons number wise.

Quite frankly, I'm getting sick & tired of having to refute the "no true scotsman" all the time.

Even though you are atheist, you should still be able to read the Bible and agree that those people were not Christians. That's called being honest.

I know it's easier to say "They were Christian!" because then it makes us Christians look bad and that's what atheists want. But, it's very dishonest and shows a lack of critical thought and reading comprehension.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

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Re: Can You Prove My God's Not Real?
« Reply #82 on: July 15, 2014, 10:26:35 PM »
 Skeptic,can a person believe they are Christian,when they are following a Demon. Is it possible they are killing for what they think is the command of God.  When in fact they are not,can they still be considered Christian,or should they know they are being deceived when the instruction from their God clearly goes against the teaching of Jesus.

 The God of the Jews is clearly in conflict with the God of the Christians(Jesus) when it comes to the ordering of followers to kill.

There's no right there's no wrong,there's just popular opinion (Brad Pitt as Jeffery Goines in 12 monkeys)

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Re: Can You Prove My God's Not Real?
« Reply #83 on: July 15, 2014, 10:29:13 PM »
If you actually think it true you're a bigger dummy than I thought
 
i thought we agreed to stop this? The ones who killed were certainly not Christians.

 First off apologies for flying off the handle and calling you a dummy.


They thought they were Christian....and just because you say demons,does not make it true. The Crusades,carried out by Christians,just because you say they are not Christian,does not mean they believed they were not Christian.

 The Simple fact that you believe Christians are just pretending,is your opinion,they believe themselves to be Christian,that is a discussion you have to have with them,not me. The Christians who went around killing for their God also viewed themselves as Christian. The fact you think they are not is based on your opinion on what a Christian should be.

 When it is convenient you lump yourself in with all other Christians,to state a numbers game and how many followers god has(2 billion),but then you separate yourself from 95% of them when it comes to what actual theologies are real. If only a small percentage of Christians are real and not pretending(say 5%) then Christianity as you see it is not a mainstream religion. 95% of Christians are following demons and are in fact NOT christian,right? Can you be a Christian if you follow a Demon or Demons,are they willingly following demons or are they just to stupid to realize they follow false gods

 
 You embrace mainstream Christianity when it works in your favor and abandon it the second it clearly embraces evil actions. If you and the like minded are the true Christians,you are clearly a very small percentage,and the other 95% by your belief are holding demons as their God....and are NOT Christians,that leaves 5% of 2 billion people and makes Christianity as a religion at the same level as Mormons number wise.

Quite frankly, I'm getting sick & tired of having to refute the "no true scotsman" all the time.

Even though you are atheist, you should still be able to read the Bible and agree that those people were not Christians. That's called being honest.

I know it's easier to say "They were Christian!" because then it makes us Christians look bad and that's what atheists want. But, it's very dishonest and shows a lack of critical thought and reading comprehension.
So then you are admitting the True Christian numbers are about 5% of the 2 billion who THINK they are Christian. You better inform the world just how small a following Jesus has
There's no right there's no wrong,there's just popular opinion (Brad Pitt as Jeffery Goines in 12 monkeys)

Offline skeptic54768

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Re: Can You Prove My God's Not Real?
« Reply #84 on: July 15, 2014, 10:46:09 PM »
So, skeptic are you saying, No true Christian would kill?

No. I believe they can make a mistake. but mass murder isn't a mistake. That's deliberate.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline skeptic54768

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Re: Can You Prove My God's Not Real?
« Reply #85 on: July 15, 2014, 10:49:31 PM »
Skeptic,can a person believe they are Christian,when they are following a Demon. Is it possible they are killing for what they think is the command of God.  When in fact they are not,can they still be considered Christian,or should they know they are being deceived when the instruction from their God clearly goes against the teaching of Jesus.

 The God of the Jews is clearly in conflict with the God of the Christians(Jesus) when it comes to the ordering of followers to kill.

Yes, they will think they are Christian but they are following a demon. So, of course they will say they are Christian. The trick is knowing when to recognize a deceiver and tell them about it. Some refuse to listen, but it is pure joy when they listen to you.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline superfly

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Re: Can You Prove My God's Not Real?
« Reply #86 on: July 15, 2014, 10:53:39 PM »
Quite frankly, I'm getting sick & tired of having to refute the "no true scotsman" all the time.

Even though you are atheist, you should still be able to read the Bible and agree that those people were not Christians. That's called being honest.

Nope, that's the thing you are getting sick and tired of having to refute.

So instead of trying to refute it, why not just say, yep, they were Christians and they did some horrible things.

I'm not calling them Christians. They self identify as Christians. You don't have a beef with atheists, skeptic54768, you have a beef with the Christians.

I know it's easier to say "They were Christian!" because then it makes us Christians look bad and that's what atheists want. But, it's very dishonest and shows a lack of critical thought and reading comprehension.

Christians need no help from the atheist community to look bad. You folks are doing a fine job all by yourselves. From Pat Robertson telling some lady (this week) that her sons stomach pain was because they had a witch in their family
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/07/14/pat-robertson-tells-mother-your-sons-stomach-pains-are-caused-by-a-witch-ancestor/

or the molesting pastor (lots of those), but this one caught my attention:
 
http://crooksandliars.com/2014/07/kentucky-boy-raped-after-his-church-hires


How do you know what atheists want?

I'm an atheist and here is what I want from Christians:
Stop telling me i'm going to hell. I don't believe in hell either.
Stop trying to get your superstitions taught in school. The bible isn't a science or history book. No, it's not.
Stop with the gay bashing. I don't give a flying fvck what the bible says about homosexuality. If you want to bash, bash on adulterers. That's in your bible, isn't it? 
Our laws and Constitution are not based on the bible. Stop saying that they are. It's wrong.
Take that "In God We Trust" crap off of money, and remove "under god" from the pledge.








Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith, I consider a capacity for it terrifying and absolutely vile!
Kurt Vonnegut