Author Topic: ID slowly withering... sort of  (Read 729 times)

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Online nogodsforme

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Re: ID slowly withering... sort of
« Reply #29 on: July 12, 2014, 07:59:40 PM »
Is this....person trying to say that grasses were the first plants? Sorry, try again.

Of course there was a time when there were no grasses on earth. But there were other plants, like ferns. Plants that reproduced asexually by spores were here long before plants that reproduced sexually by seeds (grasses, for example). Many dinosaurs were plant-eaters, so there had to have been plants other than grasses for them to eat.

I don't even have the energy to address this...person. And I know a little bit about the evolution of grasses, esp the giants like sugar cane and bamboo. I have done research on sugar cane--wrote a thesis on it, in fact. It's a relatively recent grass, Tilde.

As for dissing wikipedia, at least it cites sources and allows for updating and correction. Unlike the bible or any other ancient religious texts. Maybe this....person prefers Conservapidedia as a science reference?

Un-freaking-believable that we would get someone here who makes me feel all warm and fuzzy about resident theists skeptic, Jst and Lukvance. This character actually makes Lukvance sound reasonable. Lukvance, people.

Never underestimate the agressive ignorance of people who know nothing about science..... :P
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Online skeptic54768

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Re: ID slowly withering... sort of
« Reply #30 on: July 12, 2014, 09:23:19 PM »
While I do not condone Tilde's behavior, how do you guys account for the fact that the writers of the Bible did say that grass didn't exist when the Earth was first created?

How did they know that?

Just because the guy is acting foolish doesn't mean his point is wrong.

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Offline Azdgari

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Re: ID slowly withering... sort of
« Reply #31 on: July 12, 2014, 09:40:14 PM »
Why in the first place would anyone think that when the Earth first formed, that it formed with grass already on it?
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Online jaimehlers

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Re: ID slowly withering... sort of
« Reply #32 on: July 13, 2014, 12:50:34 AM »
Oh hey, Azgari...just to be clear here...i am agreeing with mainstream science...and thereby you are not.
Really?  Let's see...

Quote from: Tilde
I am agreeing that grass is 70 million years old, dinosaurs went extinct at about the same time by a meteorite strike.  If you have any issue with those statements, shut up because the whole world is against you.

Now, where I differ is here: Based on the number of far-reaching flood myths all sharing similar traits...i believe that meteorite strike caused our infamous global flood.  You don't have literally thousands of flood myths telling the same damn story from across the entire globe from people groups who had no contact with each other and it just be some bedtime story...I really really wish you knew how to apply critical thinking as opposed to pre-conceived notions...
So, a global flood which happened around 65 million years ago is the one remembered by humans?  Yep, that's totally mainstream and believable...(not).

Online skeptic54768

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Re: ID slowly withering... sort of
« Reply #33 on: July 13, 2014, 01:29:59 AM »
Why in the first place would anyone think that when the Earth first formed, that it formed with grass already on it?

Because they look around, see grass, and think "God created the Earth with grass."

Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline SevenPatch

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Re: ID slowly withering... sort of
« Reply #34 on: July 13, 2014, 01:39:31 AM »
While I do not condone Tilde's behavior, how do you guys account for the fact that the writers of the Bible did say that grass didn't exist when the Earth was first created?

How did they know that?

Just because the guy is acting foolish doesn't mean his point is wrong.

The Bible says there wasn't grass until "God" made it rain.  Hardly some amazing revelation of modern day knowledge.  There was a lot about the world that they were ignorant of but they weren't brain dead, they knew that plants needed water.

For anyone who has read the Bible, his point was obviously wrong.
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Offline Add Homonym

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Re: ID slowly withering... sort of
« Reply #35 on: July 13, 2014, 04:02:36 AM »
While I do not condone Tilde's behavior, how do you guys account for the fact that the writers of the Bible did say that grass didn't exist when the Earth was first created?

How did they know that?

I think it's a consequence of the way the story evolved from the Babylonian story.

Initially, the universe was Theu/Theum/Tiamat, the Babylonian "God" of chaos. If it all started as dark chaos, then nothing could be alive in it. God then stabilized it into water, and separated it. The Bible cheats a bit, because it doesn't say when the chaos got converted into water (but spends large amounts of prose talking about water separation). Then God made land, which also could not have had grass on it, because the land had been submerged(?). The Bible cheats a bit by not saying where this land came from. It's assumed the land was underneath, somewhere.

A general trait of creation myths is to (1) assume everything needs to be created, and (2) to explain random things derived for a religious reason.

Another explanation is 50/50. They could just as well have assumed that grass existed, the same way that they assumed that water was chaos, and land was just under the water somewhere. If the creation myth had left out mention of herbs being formed, then literalists would not conclude that herbs did not exist.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2014, 04:06:45 AM by Add Homonym »
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Offline Foxy Freedom

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Re: ID slowly withering... sort of
« Reply #36 on: July 13, 2014, 07:03:37 AM »
While I do not condone Tilde's behavior, how do you guys account for the fact that the writers of the Bible did say that grass didn't exist when the Earth was first created?

How did they know that?

Just because the guy is acting foolish doesn't mean his point is wrong.

They lived in a desert. They could see that land exists without grass. The chances are that they would guess one small thing right, since most of the creation story is junk. Plants and trees were created before the sun and moon in Genesis for example. In the second creation story, man was created first because plants had to be cared for.

You like to find stunningly accurate scientific predictions in the bible. How about this prediction of evolution? - 1:20 let the waters bring forth swarms of living creatures-. This is the first mention of animals and animals did evolve in water and come onto land. So evolution must be true, right?

In reality, Genesis is just a primitive concept of the universe. Anyone who tries to find modern scientific predictions in it does not understand it.
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Offline Azdgari

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Re: ID slowly withering... sort of
« Reply #37 on: July 13, 2014, 09:18:07 AM »
Why in the first place would anyone think that when the Earth first formed, that it formed with grass already on it?

Because they look around, see grass, and think "God created the Earth with grass."

They can look around, see non-grass, and then later see grass grow there.  It should be obvious to any ancient person that grass isn't an inherent quality of the Earth.

Face it, Tilde was making a stupid argument.
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Offline Graybeard

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Re: ID slowly withering... sort of
« Reply #38 on: July 13, 2014, 09:27:19 AM »
Why in the first place would anyone think that when the Earth first formed, that it formed with grass already on it?

Because they look around, see grass, and think "God created the Earth with grass."
I think that is basically it. Their world revolved around a nomadic existence in which grass figured highly. No one is saying that there was not a square inch of land that did not have grass, but to the goatherder, grass for his goats was a gift made by God; just like him and his goats (A bit strange, as God would have made a mistake if he had created goats but nothing for them to eat...)
Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

Online nogodsforme

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Re: ID slowly withering... sort of
« Reply #39 on: July 13, 2014, 02:01:46 PM »
I was going to say that desert cultures certainly know that there are places without grass, and that there was probably a time when there was not any grass at all, but Foxy Freedom beat me to it.

Most cultures have stories about how this or that thing that exists now came about. In Native American lore there are stories about the origins of corn, a crop they themselves domesticated thousands of years ago. Does not take any secret knowledge from a god to make up a story using what you already know about the world. And given enough stories, some will happen to have some truth to them. but information that could not have been known at the time? Not so apparent. [1]

In the Quran, paradise is often described in poetic terms as the place where abundant water brings forth life.

Now, how did those ancient Arabs know that water was the source of life? Modern science only discovered that humans are descended from fish in the past century. Allah must have been telling those desert people things that they could not possibly have figured out by themselves....

Or, maybe being desert people, the Arabs associated water with paradise because a) no living thing can survive long without water and b) water is really scarce, rare and valuable in a desert.

Nah, had to be magical whisperings from a god.

What discoveries that have not yet been made are predicted in the bible? Please enlighten us.
 1. Are there many references in the bible to blizzards, penguins or polar bears? Did the people who wrote the bible know that germs cause disease? That there are four temperate seasons caused by the earths' tilt in relation to the sun? That the sun is actually a star, and some stars are larger than our sun?
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline Foxy Freedom

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Re: ID slowly withering... sort of
« Reply #40 on: July 13, 2014, 04:53:50 PM »

With an attitude like yours, you will get banned fast.

When he does, he will consider it a victory.  This is typical behaviour of ideological trolls.

He also thinks he can use a new name without anyone noticing when he is banned.

http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/topic,25680.msg578075.html#msg578075

http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/topic,25640.msg578336.html#msg578336
« Last Edit: July 13, 2014, 05:01:16 PM by Foxy Freedom »
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Offline Boots

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Re: ID slowly withering... sort of
« Reply #41 on: July 14, 2014, 09:09:26 AM »
But, will my core opinions change?  Not likely, not without incredible evidence ...

that may be your problem.  I much prefer *credible* evidence.
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