Author Topic: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?  (Read 1275 times)

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Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
« Reply #87 on: July 04, 2014, 04:23:32 AM »
Yeah i don't hate skep either two counter examples so far. I will assert nobody here hates skep, could be wrong, so the prophecy is already shaky. in fact might be easier for the haters to register their hate, skep needs you to hold his prophecy together...... haters, anyone?????
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Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
« Reply #88 on: July 04, 2014, 04:25:22 AM »
Come on guys if you like skep at all say you hate him for prophecy sake...... hello haters, show us the hate........... crickets.
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Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
« Reply #89 on: July 04, 2014, 05:53:59 AM »
Skep can you give some examples so i know what you are talking about. is this like nostradamus or predicting weather patterns or sumthin??

How can anyone read my signature and NOT see it's true to this day? Christians are the most hated people/religion on the planet. How did jesus know this, especially considering Christianity started out very small in numbers?

A slap in the face couldn't be more obvious.

Predicting someone will be hated is not much of a prediction. Everyone is hated by someone.
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Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
« Reply #90 on: July 04, 2014, 05:59:04 AM »
Hopefully, the jokes are out of the way now.

With that said, nobody refuted my point about China: how they just kill your kid if you have more than one. Human life isn't sacred to them. Human life is the same to them as a bucket of water.

What does China have to do with other people knowing your god?
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Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
« Reply #91 on: July 04, 2014, 06:45:42 AM »
^ nothing but he likes to derail.
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Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
« Reply #92 on: July 04, 2014, 09:36:28 AM »
Anybody else notice when the questions get difficult Skeptic vanishes?
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Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
« Reply #93 on: July 04, 2014, 11:11:36 AM »
Anybody else notice when the questions get difficult Skeptic vanishes?

Not at all. It's called sleeping.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

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Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
« Reply #94 on: July 04, 2014, 11:12:44 AM »
Predicting someone will be hated is not much of a prediction. Everyone is hated by someone.

he said hated BY ALL.

Christianity is clearly the most hated religion on the planet. Not bad for an "uneducated Jewish carpenter."
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

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Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
« Reply #95 on: July 04, 2014, 11:24:26 AM »
Lots of people think God doesn't exist because it's so much easier to just do what you want without being held accountable for your actions.

If this is the case, why do you think people believe in fake Christianities?  IOW, the versions of Christianity that are different enough from your own to qualify as being run by demons?  Such people would still believe that they'll be held accountable to Yahweh, even if they differ from you on something like speaking in tongues or whatever.

Also: why do you think people would believe in religions that are more strict than yours?  For example, Islam?  In Christianities (or at least, most versions of Christianity) you get a complete "Get Out of Hell Free" card by "accepting Jesus as your lord and savior," but in Islam you have to rigorously abide by the Five Pillars, and you don't get the kind of go-to-Heaven guarantee that most Christianities offer.  IOW, the level of "accountability" in Islam (if I understand it correctly) is rather more harsh than what you get in Christianities.  So why would anybody be a Muslim and deal with all those strict rules instead of worshiping Satan for the orgies?
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Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
« Reply #96 on: July 04, 2014, 11:51:05 AM »
Predicting someone will be hated is not much of a prediction. Everyone is hated by someone.

he said hated BY ALL.

Christianity is clearly the most hated religion on the planet. Not bad for an "uneducated Jewish carpenter."

Please, demonstrate this. Because it is not 'clear' to me at all. Show how this is so.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - An example of a clearly demonstrably false biblical 'prophesy'.

The biblical myth of a 6000 year old Earth is proven false by the Gaia satellite directly measuring star age.

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Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
« Reply #97 on: July 04, 2014, 12:13:42 PM »
Furthermore Skep, your prophesy has been shown as false. I think the problem is that you haven't actually read Matthew 10:22. Let's take a look shall we?;

Matthew 10:22

And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved
.

Are you even known to all the men of the planet, all 3.5 billion of them, let alone hated by all? It has already been demonstrated that neither I nor eh! hate you, so already your prophesy has been shown to be false.

Now, the original question; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist? There's one answer already; at least one prophesy in the bible is demonstrably false.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - An example of a clearly demonstrably false biblical 'prophesy'.

The biblical myth of a 6000 year old Earth is proven false by the Gaia satellite directly measuring star age.

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Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
« Reply #98 on: July 04, 2014, 01:52:09 PM »
Predicting someone will be hated is not much of a prediction. Everyone is hated by someone.

he said hated BY ALL.

Christianity is clearly the most hated religion on the planet. Not bad for an "uneducated Jewish carpenter."

Please, demonstrate this. Because it is not 'clear' to me at all. Show how this is so.
that and how can a man/god possibly be uneducated,more useless projection from a liar for his god
« Last Edit: July 04, 2014, 01:53:43 PM by 12 Monkeys »
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Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
« Reply #99 on: July 04, 2014, 02:21:03 PM »
Predicting someone will be hated is not much of a prediction. Everyone is hated by someone.

he said hated BY ALL.

Christianity is clearly the most hated religion on the planet. Not bad for an "uneducated Jewish carpenter."

What did Jesus mean by 'hated'? Kind of a silly question but in this context it's kind of vague. I have heard Christians  claim that a disagreement between Christians and non-Christians is a form of hatred. Or is it a full out, complete disdain for that person only because he or she believes in the Christian god?

The first case - the disagreement - is not a form a hatred. It's a form of disagreement and that's it. I doubt that anyone here hates you, Skep, just because you're a Christian. Hatred and disagreement are not synonymous with each other, which is one reason that prophecy fails.

I know a lot of Christians. I have morning coffee with some of them. I disagree with their religious preference, but that's as far as my 'hatred' for them goes, and to say that I hate them completely and with full disdain is completely stupid.

So is there really a "hatred by all", or is there just a lot of exaggeration going on with that phrase?

The whole wording just sounds off to me.

And, even if Christianity is the "most hatred religion" (which I doubt, BTW) do you really think that all (that magic word all) non-Christians have a hatred for Christians?

So what criteria must be met for a disagreement to be considered a form of hatred?
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Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
« Reply #100 on: July 04, 2014, 10:05:28 PM »
Predicting someone will be hated is not much of a prediction. Everyone is hated by someone.

he said hated BY ALL.

Christianity is clearly the most hated religion on the planet. Not bad for an "uneducated Jewish carpenter."

Hated by ALL? So Christians are hated by one another and God as well? That would cover a good bit of ALL.
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Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
« Reply #101 on: July 04, 2014, 10:24:03 PM »
I suggest a poll, how many people here hate god, jesus, religion, skep.


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Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
« Reply #102 on: July 04, 2014, 11:45:56 PM »
How can anyone read my signature and NOT see it's true to this day? Christians are the most hated people/religion on the planet. How did jesus know this, especially considering Christianity started out very small in numbers?

A slap in the face couldn't be more obvious.

Quote
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

That's not a prophecy.  At the time those words were written, Christianity was a tiny, marginal, persecuted sect.  "Behold, Americans will watch television, and drive cars."  Yay!  I'm a prophet!  Right?

Now let's look at some of the things that came to pass in the future, which Matthew's gospel does not predict (which the "prophecy" you cite would not lead anyone to expect):

  • Christianity would exist as a major global religion, 2000 years later.
  • The most powerful nation in the world of that future age would be labeled a "Christin nation."
  • That nation would stamp "In God We Trust" on its money.
  • "The Son of Man has no place to lay his head," but less than 1500 years after the Gospels were written, some of the world's most magnificent buildings would be Christian meeting-places.
  • Christians would control their very own global communication networks.

Bonus round:
  • Men would walk on the Moon.

Not related to your "prophecy" specifically, but kindof a big thing to miss, don't you think?  "Matthew" could have at least mentioned something about the Apollo 8 astronauts reading from the Bible as they orbited the Moon, right?
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Offline skeptic54768

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Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
« Reply #103 on: July 05, 2014, 12:52:23 AM »
How can anyone read my signature and NOT see it's true to this day? Christians are the most hated people/religion on the planet. How did jesus know this, especially considering Christianity started out very small in numbers?

A slap in the face couldn't be more obvious.

Quote
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

That's not a prophecy.  At the time those words were written, Christianity was a tiny, marginal, persecuted sect.  "Behold, Americans will watch television, and drive cars."  Yay!  I'm a prophet!  Right?

Now let's look at some of the things that came to pass in the future, which Matthew's gospel does not predict (which the "prophecy" you cite would not lead anyone to expect):

  • Christianity would exist as a major global religion, 2000 years later.
  • The most powerful nation in the world of that future age would be labeled a "Christin nation."
  • That nation would stamp "In God We Trust" on its money.
  • "The Son of Man has no place to lay his head," but less than 1500 years after the Gospels were written, some of the world's most magnificent buildings would be Christian meeting-places.
  • Christians would control their very own global communication networks.

Bonus round:
  • Men would walk on the Moon.

Not related to your "prophecy" specifically, but kindof a big thing to miss, don't you think?  "Matthew" could have at least mentioned something about the Apollo 8 astronauts reading from the Bible as they orbited the Moon, right?

it makes no sense to list those prophecies in the Bible because then everyone would just claim it's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

For example, suppose Jesus predicted Abraham Lincoln's date of birth. Well, what would a person reading the Bible (in 800 A.D.) think about that prophecy being in the Bible? They would laugh.

Also, it would be self-fulfilling because you could name your kid "Abraham" on that date.

I bet you guys never thought of that.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

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Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
« Reply #104 on: July 05, 2014, 12:56:00 AM »
You are an idiot
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Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
« Reply #105 on: July 05, 2014, 01:00:42 AM »
You are an idiot

An adhominem, I see.

Now, can you please explain why a person reading the Bible in 800 A.D. would care about a prophecy about Abraham Lincoln's date of birth 1,000 years later?
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

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Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
« Reply #106 on: July 05, 2014, 01:05:19 AM »
You are an idiot

An adhominem, I see.

Now, can you please explain why a person reading the Bible in 800 A.D. would care about a prophecy about Abraham Lincoln's date of birth 1,000 years later?
right after you explain why luk and JST are following demons in my thread
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Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
« Reply #107 on: July 05, 2014, 01:24:09 AM »
So prophecies were just to convince ancient illiterate people back in the day.
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Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
« Reply #108 on: July 05, 2014, 01:28:33 AM »
So prophecies were just to convince ancient illiterate people back in the day.

No, I'm saying that the way the prophecies are written is the best way possible. There is no better way. That's part of being omniscient. You know the best way. None of the "Ways An Atheist Would Write A Prophecy" are any good.

I was hoping you could actually put 2+2 together and come up with this answer on your own without me constantly having to spell out every single minute detail.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

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Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
« Reply #109 on: July 05, 2014, 01:36:10 AM »
it makes no sense to list those prophecies in the Bible because then everyone would just claim it's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

For example, suppose Jesus predicted Abraham Lincoln's date of birth. Well, what would a person reading the Bible (in 800 A.D.) think about that prophecy being in the Bible? They would laugh.

Also, it would be self-fulfilling because you could name your kid "Abraham" on that date.

I bet you guys never thought of that.

Sure, that's one of the problems with "prophecy" as a proof of deity.  But you don't think that an infinitely intelligent and capable being could come up with a way to solve that problem?  Like, oh, I dunno, produce a prophecy that people can't make self-fulfilling?  Like so: "Behold, in times to come, people will create artifices by which they can look upon the planet Jupiter, and when they do, they shall see upon its face a great red spot.  This spot they shall discover to be a mighty storm, larger than all the Earth, yet it is as nothing in My hand, saith the Lord." 

Now, people might try to "create artifices" to see Jupiter, but the prophecy doesn't tell them how.  No one in that time would know how, or that it would even be possible by mundane means.  So the prophecy would predict that it would be possible for humans to make telescopes, before anyone knew how to make a telescope.  Then, it would predict what they'd see, something humans have no choice about, or ability to affect.

Of course you'll worm your way out of this, saying that Yahweh doesn't actually want to demonstrate his existence via prophecy or some other such dodge.  Well, OK.  In that case, it's invalid to try to point to some vague Biblical passage, and call it a "prophecy," isn't it?

No, I'm saying that the way the prophecies are written is the best way possible. There is no better way. That's part of being omniscient. You know the best way.

You're omniscient?  Wow, impressive!  I guess that must make you God then.  I mean, if you weren't omniscient, you wouldn't know that there's no better way for an omniscient, infinitely capable being to do something than the descriptions some ancient humans wrote in a book.

Edit: To add a paragraph break.
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Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
« Reply #110 on: July 05, 2014, 01:55:30 AM »
Kcrady V skep, its a bit uneven, poor skep.
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Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
« Reply #111 on: July 05, 2014, 03:16:29 AM »

it makes no sense to list those prophecies in the Bible because then everyone would just claim it's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

For example, suppose Jesus predicted Abraham Lincoln's date of birth. Well, what would a person reading the Bible (in 800 A.D.) think about that prophecy being in the Bible? They would laugh.

Also, it would be self-fulfilling because you could name your kid "Abraham" on that date.

I bet you guys never thought of that.

It makes no sense to list everyone hating Christians as a prophecy in the Bible because then everyone would just claim it's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

For example, suppose Jesus predicted everyone would hate Christians. Well, what would a person reading the Bible (in 800 A.D.) think about that prophecy being in the Bible? They would laugh.

Also, it would be self-fulfilling because then everyone would just start hating Christians.

I bet you guys never thought of that.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - An example of a clearly demonstrably false biblical 'prophesy'.

The biblical myth of a 6000 year old Earth is proven false by the Gaia satellite directly measuring star age.

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Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
« Reply #112 on: July 05, 2014, 03:24:24 AM »
It has been shown that Matthew 10:22 is false. At least two people on this forum alone have stated that they do not hate you, therefore as I pointed out before; either Matthew 10:22 is false or you are not a True Christian.

Why all the self-loathing Skep? "Everyone hates me". It's not true and it's not healthy.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - An example of a clearly demonstrably false biblical 'prophesy'.

The biblical myth of a 6000 year old Earth is proven false by the Gaia satellite directly measuring star age.

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Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
« Reply #113 on: July 05, 2014, 06:21:58 AM »
If he is hated by ALL, that must mean his indeed the one True ChristianTM.
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Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
« Reply #114 on: July 05, 2014, 06:39:06 AM »

it makes no sense to list those prophecies in the Bible because then everyone would just claim it's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

For example, suppose Jesus predicted Abraham Lincoln's date of birth. Well, what would a person reading the Bible (in 800 A.D.) think about that prophecy being in the Bible? They would laugh.

Also, it would be self-fulfilling because you could name your kid "Abraham" on that date.

I bet you guys never thought of that.

It makes no sense to list everyone hating Christians as a prophecy in the Bible because then everyone would just claim it's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

For example, suppose Jesus predicted everyone would hate Christians. Well, what would a person reading the Bible (in 800 A.D.) think about that prophecy being in the Bible? They would laugh.

Also, it would be self-fulfilling because then everyone would just start hating Christians.

I bet you guys never thought of that.

It's also a great way to play Heads, I win. Tails, you loose.

If you agree with them, then they can claim that as validation.
The the more you disagree, the more they can say "you hate it that we're right"

 Cults do this, the woo-ey so-called alternative medicine play on the "you hate to admit we're right" line, and all play the victim.

Give someone some claim to some kind of special, inside, information that's counter to what the evidence, or lack of, leads to; add in some version of "the outsiders aren't ready to understand, that's why they are angry" - hence making the claimant feel superior; tell then that people will try to argue against them, even hate them, because the outsiders can't bear to admit they are wrong; and there you are - instant self-fulling prophecy and a nice chain of circular claims that reinforce the delusion whenever it's challenged.

Kinda dumb, but some folks seem to want to believe they have some secret-sauce that only special people, like they are, can understand.

Oh, I'll be traveling for a bit, so if I miss replies, it's nothing personal.
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Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
« Reply #115 on: July 05, 2014, 05:49:40 PM »
There have been supposed prophecies, but none are specific and intelligible enough to be real predictions. There are lots of things that could have been predicted that people could not make happen, but would just have to wait for. We did not find out about germs causing disease, or what the surface of the moon would be like, from any holy text.

No holy text predicted the date of the Krakatoa eruption or the massive 1906 San Francisco earthquake and fire. Could it be that earthquakes and volcanoes are not as common in the Middle East as they are around the Pacific Rim?  Amazing how none of the holy texts from desert cultures have ever predicted any of the great blizzards that have devastated the northern temperate climates...

And anytime someone points out that this or that statement is not really a prophecy, because it is something that people could decide to make happen (like the founding of Israel as a state) believers change the terms of the discussion. Consider the prophecy that all people will hate Christians.[1]

Christianity is currently  the religious faith with the largest number of adherents worldwide (2 billion). This fact is used to show that Christianity has to be true, because that many people would not believe in a lie. Yet according to prophecy that has to be true, Christianity is also, somehow, the least popular, least influential and most hated religion in the world. How can both of these be true?

Well, of course, most of the people who claim to be Christians are not really Christians! They are tricked into following fake versions of Christianity, like Catholicism and Mormonism and Lutheranism. Only my tiny group is practicing real Christianity and all the other religions, including all the fake Christians, actually hate the real Christianity we practice. Even though they don't know it. Ya see. And when, someday, as will very likely happen, Islam overtakes Christianity in numbers, that fact will be used to prove that Christianity is the most hated religion!

When I was a JW kid, we were told that all would hate us because we were following the true god. It was clear that we were, if not hated, at least disliked by many people. People slammed doors in our faces, sicced their dogs on us, etc. Prophecy fulfilled, right?

But it was not because of our beliefs that people were angry with us JW's. Not once did anyone burn down our Kingdom Hall, smash up out car, attack us in our home or ban us from school for being JW.[2] Nobody followed us down the street yelling threats or insults--you know, the kind of thing people do when they really hate you.  People got angry with us only because we constantly annoyed them on weekends by coming to their homes to talk about our beliefs.

It was as if we were seeking out that kind of treatment, so we could pat ourselves on the back. The bible predicted that the people who were righteous would be persecuted. We were persecuted, therefore we were righteous.
 1. Lots of my friends and relatives are Christians. Others are Muslims, Buddhists, Sikhs and ex-members of various religions. If I hate any of them, it is not due to the religions they do or do not practice.
 2.  Kids egged our house for not giving out candy for trick or treat. We were not allowed to turn the lights out and pretend to be away. The kids might not even have known we were JW's, just thought we were hateful and stingy.
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.