Author Topic: Every employer in the USA should become a Christian Scientist.  (Read 978 times)

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Offline flapdoodle64

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An employer in USA can avoid paying for employees' health care if it conflicts with the employer's religion.

Christian Scientists think that all illness and infirmity can be cured via prayer.  Conventional medicine conflicts with this view, and would cause the employer to pay for something he does not believe in.  A Christian Scientist employer should not be 'forced' to provide coverage in something his religion preaches against. 

Prayer costs nothing. 

I think this is a perfect scheme.

Offline One Above All

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Re: Every employer in the USA should become a Christian Scientist.
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2014, 02:21:50 PM »
Step 1: Become a christian scientist.
Step 2: Become the CEO of a large corporation.
Step 4: Deny healthcare to anyone who's a believer by claiming that their god should be able to handle their illnesses, while also claiming that it is against your religion to do anything but pray when it comes to illnesses.
Step 5: ?????
Step 6: Profit.
Step 7: Realize I skipped step 3.
Step 8: Wonder for the rest of your life what step 3 was.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

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Offline flapdoodle64

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Re: Every employer in the USA should become a Christian Scientist.
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2014, 02:33:28 PM »
Step 4: Deny healthcare to anyone who's a believer by claiming that their god should be able to handle their illnesses, while also claiming that it is against your religion to do anything but pray when it comes to illnesses.

Under SCOTUS, I think you can deny care to your employees regardless of their beliefs...so under my scheme, your employees' belief in gods or lack thereof is irrelevant.  Only your own religious views as employer matter. 

Exxx-cellll-ent...exxx-cellll-ent...

Offline Jeltz

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Re: Every employer in the USA should become a Christian Scientist.
« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2014, 06:49:52 PM »
Is this getting crazy, or what??

Supreme Court Upholds Little Caesar’s Right to Feed Christian Employees to Lions

I look at this as a public service announcement to our Christian members. LOL

Offline flapdoodle64

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Re: Every employer in the USA should become a Christian Scientist.
« Reply #4 on: July 02, 2014, 12:31:30 AM »
^
Thanks for posting that, I am going to re-post that on facebook to tork off my religious friends.

Offline Backspace

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Re: Every employer in the USA should become a Christian Scientist.
« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2014, 11:37:52 AM »
Anyone know what church the Corporation of Hobby Lobby attends? What size offering plate is passed around? How many gallons of cheap wine & pallets of Jesus crackers are needed for a 'Corporate' communion? Do Christian corporations need to be circumcised?

« Last Edit: July 02, 2014, 11:39:54 AM by Backspace »
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Offline Backspace

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Re: Every employer in the USA should become a Christian Scientist.
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2014, 03:59:12 PM »
I'd almost forgotten about this:

"‘Hypocrisy at its finest’: CNN calls out Hobby Lobby for investing in birth control"

Quote
Earlier this year, Mother Jones revealed that Hobby Lobby’s retirement plan had more than $73 million invested in companies that produced emergency contraception pills. It was that same type of birth control that Hobby Lobby said it had an objection to when it took its case against President Barack Obama’s health care reform law to the Supreme Court and won.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/07/02/hypocrisy-at-its-finest-cnn-calls-out-hobby-lobby-for-investing-in-birth-control
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Offline Mr. Blackwell

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Re: Every employer in the USA should become a Christian Scientist.
« Reply #7 on: July 02, 2014, 04:20:41 PM »
That would be like a Swedish anti war, pro peace, activist company investing in SAAB for it's employees retirement.
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Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: Every employer in the USA should become a Christian Scientist.
« Reply #8 on: July 02, 2014, 11:04:20 PM »
What happens when as the CEO of this corporation you must be expected to live by your edicts,but get a curable disease that will kill you if left untreated?

 You can't exactly be running to the healthcare system when it suits you,can you?,,,, I guess you could as most Christians are hypocrites anyway.
There's no right there's no wrong,there's just popular opinion (Brad Pitt as Jeffery Goines in 12 monkeys)

Offline flapdoodle64

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Re: Every employer in the USA should become a Christian Scientist.
« Reply #9 on: July 03, 2014, 08:16:52 AM »
What happens when as the CEO of this corporation you must be expected to live by your edicts,but get a curable disease that will kill you if left untreated?

 You can't exactly be running to the healthcare system when it suits you,can you?,,,, I guess you could as most Christians are hypocrites anyway.

US Plutocracy isn't bothered by such trivial thoughts. Of course a US Plutocrat can simultaneously preach one type of piety and practice another. Richard Nixon was a Quaker, of all things.  US Plutocrats will have no trouble, for instance, if abortion becomes illegal. They will simply go back to the old way, bribing an OB so their own precious daughter can have a safe and quiet abortion, all the while publicly preaching its evils.

Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: Every employer in the USA should become a Christian Scientist.
« Reply #10 on: July 03, 2014, 09:05:00 AM »
Ya,secret surgery while you preach faith,that my friend is what starts revolutions
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Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Every employer in the USA should become a Christian Scientist.
« Reply #11 on: July 03, 2014, 12:17:32 PM »
I cannot wait until a Muslim CEO starts imposing his beliefs on his Christian employees......

I have decided that we need to get Atheism (capitalized) declared an official religion. Then we can all start fantastically successful, profitable companies and make any religious people who want jobs leave their sacred beliefs at the door!

Money to feed your family or god? You get to choose. Or are you anti-choice?

Bwahhhahhhahhhahhha! [cough choke on diabolical laughter]
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: Every employer in the USA should become a Christian Scientist.
« Reply #12 on: July 03, 2014, 12:47:33 PM »
I cannot wait until a Muslim CEO starts imposing his beliefs on his Christian employees......

I have decided that we need to get Atheism (capitalized) declared an official religion. Then we can all start fantastically successful, profitable companies and make any religious people who want jobs leave their sacred beliefs at the door!

Money to feed your family or god? You get to choose. Or are you anti-choice?

Bwahhhahhhahhhahhha! [cough choke on diabolical laughter]
You watch Big Bang theory at all.... The Christians are like Sheldon,he writes up agreements with associates and leans them heavily in his favor and his interests. When it comes time for him to buck up he looks for a loophole(that he may have written in),careful what you wish for Christians,it WILL bite you on the ass at some point.
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Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Every employer in the USA should become a Christian Scientist.
« Reply #13 on: July 03, 2014, 03:08:53 PM »
It already has bitten them. The states with social policies that most closely adhere to conservative religious principles are the worst places to live. And they blame the media and the government. It could not possibly be that their policies are irrational, are ill-suited to modern life, and just plain don't work. 

Their prejudice forces liberals, gays and immigrants to move away, the real "job creators" and the tax base disappears and most vibrant part of the local economy collapses. More divorce, family violence, poverty, school dropouts, etc. are the result.  Then the meth labs and massage parlors move in.  Seriously, it is like they think god wants them to be poor, uneducated, addicted and suffering from untreated STD's, since that is exactly what their policies lead to.

Fine. Just stop taking money from the evil government for farm subsidies, social security and disability payments. Stop using the military (also part of the evil government) as the high-tech welfare and employment program for your communities. Be against birth control--have a child every year that you cannot feed, and see who you will be able to hire to teach them all in your Christian schools for sub-minimum wages. Luckily, crime will go up enough for you to get a nice, full to bursting private prison (also subsidized by the evil government) that will hire the local folks who don't have police records themselves.

Also, their ignorance is astounding. One southern community did decide to refuse all money from the evil government when Obama was elected, because he was the antichrist. And they were shocked, shocked to learn that they had eliminated the federally funded meals on wheels program that their elderly population depended on for food.

When some other politicians passed laws banning what they thought was "sharia law" they found they had also banned policies based on the bible.  :angel:
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline Mr. Blackwell

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Re: Every employer in the USA should become a Christian Scientist.
« Reply #14 on: July 03, 2014, 08:02:32 PM »
...The states with social policies that most closely adhere to conservative religious principles are the worst places to live....

Their prejudice forces liberals, gays and immigrants to move away, the real "job creators" and the tax base disappears and most vibrant part of the local economy collapses. More divorce, family violence, poverty, school dropouts, etc. are the result.  Then the meth labs and massage parlors move in.  Seriously, it is like they think god wants them to be poor, uneducated, addicted and suffering from untreated STD's, since that is exactly what their policies lead to...

...One southern community did decide to refuse all money from the evil government when Obama was elected, because he was the antichrist. And they were shocked, shocked to learn that they had eliminated the federally funded meals on wheels program that their elderly population depended on for food.

When some other politicians passed laws banning what they thought was "sharia law" they found they had also banned policies based on the bible.  :angel:

This is a hard pill for me to swallow. You got anything I can wash it down with? I am not denying your claim...I just need a little help believing it.
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Offline Chronos

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Re: Every employer in the USA should become a Christian Scientist.
« Reply #15 on: July 29, 2014, 09:49:27 PM »

Satanists aren’t the only ones following Hobby Lobby’s lead

Quote

On Monday, the Satanic Temple drew headlines for declaring that, in the wake of the Supreme Court’s decision in Burwell v. Hobby Lobby Stores, it was “asserting a religious exemption from the burden of state mandated ‘informational’ abortion materials for those who share their deeply held beliefs.”

In other words, they wanted a conscience clause from laws intended to dissuade women from having abortions by mandating an ultrasound or that a doctor impart biased or medically-inaccurate information about abortion.

The Satanists stated that they believe “the body is inviolable subject to one’s own will alone,” and, they “strive to make all decisions regarding personal health based on the best scientific understanding of the world, regardless of the religious or political beliefs of others.”


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Offline frank callaway

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Re: Every employer in the USA should become a Christian Scientist.
« Reply #16 on: July 30, 2014, 10:53:01 AM »
Their prejudice forces liberals, gays and immigrants to move away, the real "job creators" and the tax base disappears and most vibrant part of the local economy collapses. More divorce, family violence, poverty, school dropouts, etc. are the result.  Then the meth labs and massage parlors move in...

sorry, i have to disagree... detroit today is a headstone to the absurdity of progressive liberalism.  next up, LA, Chi Town, Philly etc...
When a great genius appears in the world you may know him by this sign; that the dunces are all in confederacy against him.

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Offline screwtape

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Re: Every employer in the USA should become a Christian Scientist.
« Reply #17 on: July 30, 2014, 11:06:41 AM »
sorry, i have to disagree... detroit today is a headstone to the absurdity of progressive liberalism.  next up, LA, Chi Town, Philly etc...

Please explain that.  Include supporting evidence and data if you can.

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Offline frank callaway

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Re: Every employer in the USA should become a Christian Scientist.
« Reply #18 on: July 30, 2014, 12:24:54 PM »
sorry, i have to disagree... detroit today is a headstone to the absurdity of progressive liberalism.  next up, LA, Chi Town, Philly etc...

Please explain that.  Include supporting evidence and data if you can.

liberal democrats have been in control of detroit’s government for 52 years.  the city’s vast unfunded pension programs were only one hurdle. detroit's public-school turned in the lowest scores ever recorded in the national math-proficiency test.  more than a third of students fail to graduate.  detroit is/was a model of tax-and-spend liberalism - reckless government spending - unions crippled the auto industry

http://www.forbes.com/sites/louiswoodhill/2013/07/24/the-big-lie-that-drove-detroit-into-bankruptcy-was-liberalism-itself/
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Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Every employer in the USA should become a Christian Scientist.
« Reply #19 on: July 30, 2014, 12:29:25 PM »
I thought you were going to argue that Detroit's economic problems were due to the city being too welcoming to teh gays.

Also there might have been a tiny bit of international competition (from countries like Japan that have liberal stuff like universal health care for their workers) that hurt the US auto industry.

Actually, I understand that Detroit's economy is improving. Can't say the same for the rest of Michigan, however.
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline frank callaway

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Re: Every employer in the USA should become a Christian Scientist.
« Reply #20 on: July 30, 2014, 12:48:55 PM »
Actually, I understand that Detroit's economy is improving...

only one way to go when you're at rock bottom...
When a great genius appears in the world you may know him by this sign; that the dunces are all in confederacy against him.

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Offline screwtape

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Re: Every employer in the USA should become a Christian Scientist.
« Reply #21 on: July 30, 2014, 12:59:28 PM »
sorry, i have to disagree... detroit today is a headstone to the absurdity of progressive liberalism.  next up, LA, Chi Town, Philly etc...

Please explain that.  Include supporting evidence and data if you can.

liberal democrats have been in control of detroit’s government for 52 years.  the city’s vast unfunded pension programs were only one hurdle. detroit's public-school turned in the lowest scores ever recorded in the national math-proficiency test.  more than a third of students fail to graduate.  detroit is/was a model of tax-and-spend liberalism - reckless government spending - unions crippled the auto industry

http://www.forbes.com/sites/louiswoodhill/2013/07/24/the-big-lie-that-drove-detroit-into-bankruptcy-was-liberalism-itself/

1. it is an Opinion piece. Just because someone else has an opinion like yours does not make your opinion true. 

2. that article makes a lot of unsupported claims, some of which are obvious hyperbole and patently false.

3. It failed to speak about foreign trade policy, or NAFTA or a whole host of other policies that contributed to Detroit's problems.  Instead, Mr Woodhill tried to lay it all on pensions and unions, which is overly simplistic and, frankly, childish.

4. you might try some additional sources to bolster your argument.  Forbes is not known to be exactly unbiased.

Would you care to give it another shot?
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Offline frank callaway

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Re: Every employer in the USA should become a Christian Scientist.
« Reply #22 on: July 30, 2014, 02:01:08 PM »
sorry, i have to disagree... detroit today is a headstone to the absurdity of progressive liberalism.  next up, LA, Chi Town, Philly etc...

Please explain that.  Include supporting evidence and data if you can.

liberal democrats have been in control of detroit’s government for 52 years.  the city’s vast unfunded pension programs were only one hurdle. detroit's public-school turned in the lowest scores ever recorded in the national math-proficiency test.  more than a third of students fail to graduate.  detroit is/was a model of tax-and-spend liberalism - reckless government spending - unions crippled the auto industry

http://www.forbes.com/sites/louiswoodhill/2013/07/24/the-big-lie-that-drove-detroit-into-bankruptcy-was-liberalism-itself/

1. it is an Opinion piece. Just because someone else has an opinion like yours does not make your opinion true. 

2. that article makes a lot of unsupported claims, some of which are obvious hyperbole and patently false.

3. It failed to speak about foreign trade policy, or NAFTA or a whole host of other policies that contributed to Detroit's problems.  Instead, Mr Woodhill tried to lay it all on pensions and unions, which is overly simplistic and, frankly, childish.

4. you might try some additional sources to bolster your argument.  Forbes is not known to be exactly unbiased.

Would you care to give it another shot?

unfortunately i don't have access to official city accounting records so the vast majority of "supporting evidence" on the interwebs will be opinion.  but fair enough.  in your response you neglected to acknowledge that detroit has been governed by liberal democrats for 52 years.  by just that simple fact alone, i am confident in my position that liberal democrats are responsible for its demise.  whether trade policy, NAFTA or other policies contributed, the bottom line is the city was a catastrophic failure under liberal progressive rule... the buck has to stop somewhere.
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Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Every employer in the USA should become a Christian Scientist.
« Reply #23 on: July 30, 2014, 03:24:53 PM »
frank calloway, I am willing--if presented with the appropriate evidence-- to attribute the economic decline in many northern US cities between the 1980's and today to liberal democratic policies. In exchange, I assume that you are willing to attribute the massive shift in wealth from the lower 99% of the US population to the upper 1% during the same time period to conservative republican policies.

In addition, I would expect you to accept that there are increased rates of poverty, lower educational achievement, more family violence, worse health outcomes, more teenage pregnancy, rising drug use, higher rates of STD's, more low-wage employment, larger prison populations and higher divorce rates in states with more conservative social policies.

The main difference is that I can find actual research studies, backed up by statistics and economic data--not just opinion editorials-- to support what I say. Can you?

BTW welcome to the discussion. Always good to get some new perspectives.
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline screwtape

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Re: Every employer in the USA should become a Christian Scientist.
« Reply #24 on: July 30, 2014, 04:12:19 PM »
in your response you neglected to acknowledge that detroit has been governed by liberal democrats for 52 years.

I did not look into it, but I take you at your word that they were democrats. 

by just that simple fact alone, i am confident in my position that liberal democrats are responsible for its demise.

Taking simple facts alone is simplistic and often wrong.  I tend to make quick judgments and over simplify most things.  I usually regret it sooner than later.  It is easy to do because that is how the brain has evolved.  Quick explanations are assigned in the emotional/ intuitive part of the brain.  Rationalizations are then summoned from the more logical and thinking part.  Unfortunately, the emotional/ intuitive part is lousy at actual analysis.

Your statement here is also a subtle but distinct difference from your original statement that it was due to progressive liberalism.  Potayto, potahto, you might say.  But blaming people of a party is different than blaming an ideology.  For example, the GOP of late has failed to produce any competent leaders but has produced a murderer's row of lunatics and idiots.  That does not mean conservativism is a failure.  It is, but not for that reason.

Detroit also had a mayor named Kwame.  I just wanted to point that out.  Kwame. 
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Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Every employer in the USA should become a Christian Scientist.
« Reply #25 on: July 30, 2014, 04:43:57 PM »
Can I add that, during the most successful growth and expansion in recent US economic history (the 1950-1980 period) labor unions were at their strongest, taxes on the wealthy were at their highest, and conservative republicans like Richard Nixon were advocating domestic policies to the left of both Bill Clinton and Barack Obama?

What has happened in recent years is that tax and investment policies have shifted to help the wealthy make more money and keep more of it in their hot little well-manicured hands. This does not mean more jobs are created--nothing "trickles down" to the working class but right wing propaganda about how much the rich do for everyone.

My working class students support tax policies that protect the rich, even though those are the very policies screwing them and their families. Because, unlike their own parents, they are all going to become wealthy. Real soon. Once they pay off their student loans, get out of collection for uninsured medical bills and get their beater car running again so they can keep their two part-time food service jobs. The brainwashing from right wing radio and tv make Mao's cultural propaganda efforts look half-hearted.

Conservative low tax policies don't create more jobs. But they do allow more offshoring of investments, and lead to neglected infrastructure, less money for those public services everyone needs, and less disposable income in the pockets of the lower wage earners (who really do create more jobs by spending their money and stimulating their local economies).

Again, I can cite data to support this.
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline Chronos

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Re: Every employer in the USA should become a Christian Scientist.
« Reply #26 on: July 30, 2014, 06:21:50 PM »
Detroit was a huge, thriving city centered on automobile production. Once the automobile production left (mostly left), so did the jobs, so did the people, so did the tax base, so did the tax revenue, etc.

The jobs moved out of Detroit to other locations in the US, Canada, Mexico, Brazil and I can't remember where else. The jobs moved outside of the US/Canada were moved for cheaper labor. The jobs moved to other parts of the US/Canada began using automation (robots) so that the work done by 3 employees on an assembly line later only required 1 employee. I'm pretty sure the welding and painting processes are entirely automated. Cutting jobs by 50-70% is devastating to an industry and when a city is almost totally dedicated to that one industry it's catastrophic for the city. Detroit's problems weren't caused by liberal democratic whatever. Detroit's problems were caused by a lack of diversification of employment and that was the fault of the automobile manufacturers for locating practically all of their production in one city.

The other cities you mentioned -- Los Angeles, Chicago, Philadelphia, etc -- have diversified employment. No single industry will be able to devastate those cities. In fact, by the 1980s most places in the US learned the lesson that diversification is paramount to having a stable economy so everyone wanted a little piece of different industries. Even GM didn't relocate factories to one single region -- they're spread all over the place.

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Offline shnozzola

Re: Every employer in the USA should become a Christian Scientist.
« Reply #27 on: July 30, 2014, 09:07:32 PM »
I remember being in Suid Africa in the 80s, and wondering why everyone was driving toyotas, but there were no fords, no chevys.  Short sighted - have they changed that?  Are ford and chevy in China?

Also this - from Nogods:
Quote
"My working class students support tax policies that protect the rich, even though those are the very policies screwing them and their families. Because, unlike their own parents, they are all going to become wealthy. Real soon. Once they pay off their student loans, get out of collection for uninsured medical bills and get their beater car running again so they can keep their two part-time food service jobs. The brainwashing from right wing radio and tv make Mao's cultural propaganda efforts look half-hearted."

^^^^What a great paragraph showcasing American politics.  I would also add that the new American (world?) business model has lost integrity, in fact praises it's loss of integrity, downsizing quality while increasing price.  You pay for a king sized bed at a hotel, they give you twin beds, and apologize if you ask, knowing full well what they attempted to get away with.
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Offline frank callaway

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Re: Every employer in the USA should become a Christian Scientist.
« Reply #28 on: July 30, 2014, 11:15:13 PM »
I assume that you are willing to attribute the massive shift in wealth from the lower 99% of the US population to the upper 1% during the same time period to conservative republican policies.

In addition, I would expect you to accept that there are increased rates of poverty, lower educational achievement, more family violence, worse health outcomes, more teenage pregnancy, rising drug use, higher rates of STD's, more low-wage employment, larger prison populations and higher divorce rates in states with more conservative social policies.

The main difference is that I can find actual research studies, backed up by statistics and economic data--not just opinion editorials-- to support what I say. Can you?

sure, sounds good to me... i would be interested in seeing the stats on who exactly the beneficiaries are of this massive wealth transfer you speak of, perhaps their voting records would be useful as well.  and a state by state statistical breakdown (better make that a county by county breakdown) of poverty rates, educational achievement, family violence, health outcomes, teenage pregnancy, drug use, STD rates, low-wage employment, prison populations and divorce rates would be awesome.  then we need to contrast that info with each county's election results.  then we need to light our hair on fire and run around in circles while chewing on tin foil...

you see, the main difference isn't that you can find actual research studies in lieu of op-ed pieces, anyone can do that.  the difference here is we were discussing one particular filing - one particular bankruptcy case in which the actual accounting details are not publicly available, so because the court documents are not online, (as far as i can tell) one has to resort to public opinion in an effort to solidify a position.  and forbs is typically pretty neutral, maybe a little right of center... but not even in the same universe when compared to how bat $hit crazy to the left sites like huffpo and media matters are...
When a great genius appears in the world you may know him by this sign; that the dunces are all in confederacy against him.

-Jonathan Swift