Author Topic: LHC readied for return  (Read 298 times)

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Offline Mrjason

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LHC readied for return
« on: July 01, 2014, 07:15:20 AM »
good article

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-28089987

Quote
Teams are working to get the LHC - located in a circular tunnel beneath the French-Swiss border - back online by January 2015 and this time it will operate at its full energy of 14 trillion electron volts

I didn't know if was only being run at half power when the higgs boson was confirmed. 14 trillion volts. Wow.

as the author of the article says

Quote
If all goes well, by the end of March 2015 scientists could begin colliding high-energy beams of particles at the LHC.

And that's when the real fun will begin

 :D

Good pictures and diagrams too

Online One Above All

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Re: LHC readied for return
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2014, 07:19:29 AM »
THE WORLD'S GONNA END (again)!!!

I didn't know if was only being run at half power when the higgs boson was confirmed. 14 trillion volts. Wow.

I didn't know it either. I'm surprised we've built something so powerful, even if it's insignificant in the grand scheme of things.

Jesus H. Christ, they're gonna cool it down to 1.85ºK. This seems like overkill to me. That should be enough to turn any material into a superconductor.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2014, 07:25:21 AM by One Above All »
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Offline Defiance

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Re: LHC readied for return
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2014, 07:44:17 AM »
Yesssssss I'm so glad.

Too bad uneducated people are gonna try and stop it because they think it makes black holes that can eat us up. :/

By the way, electron volts and volts, Watts the difference?
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Online One Above All

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Re: LHC readied for return
« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2014, 07:53:20 AM »
By the way, electron volts and volts, Watts the difference?

Electron volts are the same as volts, only multiplied by a factor of "e", where "e" is the elementary charge.
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Offline Mrjason

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Re: LHC readied for return
« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2014, 08:15:32 AM »
THE WORLD'S GONNA END (again)!!!

It always is.

Jesus H. Christ, they're gonna cool it down to 1.85ºK. This seems like overkill to me. That should be enough to turn any material into a superconductor.

Hell yeah superconductors FTW.

It might be overkill but if they can do it why not :D

Online One Above All

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Re: LHC readied for return
« Reply #5 on: July 01, 2014, 08:17:06 AM »
It might be overkill but if they can do it why not :D

Waste of energy that could be used to power the beam even further?
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Offline Mrjason

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Re: LHC readied for return
« Reply #6 on: July 01, 2014, 09:00:22 AM »
Waste of energy that could be used to power the beam even further?

Possibly not, I wouldn't think that the systems are linked. I don't know where the power comes from though.

It might be useful as a side experiment on superconductors?

Online One Above All

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Re: LHC readied for return
« Reply #7 on: July 01, 2014, 09:21:57 AM »
Possibly not, I wouldn't think that the systems are linked. I don't know where the power comes from though.

Power is power. You're using electricity to basically run an air conditioning unit using helium instead of whatever a regular air conditioning unit uses.[1] If you're cooling things down way beyond what is necessary, you're wasting that electricity.

It might be useful as a side experiment on superconductors?

I doubt you can safely attach enough measuring devices to a superconductor being used in this manner to be able to get anything more than "Yup, that's a superconductor alright".
 1. Don't bite my head off for this statement. It's a comparison. The point is that energy is being used to cool things down.
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Offline Mrjason

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Re: LHC readied for return
« Reply #8 on: July 01, 2014, 09:29:31 AM »
Power is power. You're using electricity to basically run an air conditioning unit using helium instead of whatever a regular air conditioning unit uses. If you're cooling things down way beyond what is necessary, you're wasting that electricity.

True, power is power. The CERN team will have a finite budget, there will be a bean counter questioning the use of the budget. There will be a reason put forward as to why this slice of budget needs to be used. If it weren't necessary I don't think they would be allowed to do it.

Still I did ask why not and you answered.

Maybe the jesus' holding the atoms together need to be chilled this far in order to become sleepy enough to let go of the atoms so that they can be smashed?

It might be useful as a side experiment on superconductors?

I doubt you can safely attach enough measuring devices to a superconductor being used in this manner to be able to get anything more than "Yup, that's a superconductor alright".

I don't really know enough about this to comment. 

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Re: LHC readied for return
« Reply #9 on: July 01, 2014, 09:41:03 AM »
I don't really know enough about this to comment. 

Well, imagine an ohmmeter, for example. According to my Experimental Physics teacher, it measures the current when the voltage it generates is applied to a material, then calculates the resistance. If you attach this to a superconductor, you have current passing through a superconductor; current that's not supposed to be there. Now a voltmeter. This one doesn't really do much in terms of changing the circuit, since its resistance is about 10*10^6 Ohm, while the resistance of a superconductor is zero (or, at least, very, very, very close to zero). Ammeter. This needs to be connected in series (I don't know the proper term for this, so forgive me if it's not accurate), and, while their resistance is small when used in a common setting, it's still very high compared to that of a superconductor (10 Ohm>>0 Ohm).
These are just the three most common devices used. Now consider the fact that the superconductor will be used to minimize power consumption. That is, it will be used as we use wires. An ohmmeter can't work like that. It will break down. And an ammeter, if the current is strong enough, which it must be for this kind of experiment, will fry (inside; the exterior will remain the same, but the fuse will melt and the device will become useless when used in a certain scale).
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
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Offline Mrjason

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Re: LHC readied for return
« Reply #10 on: July 01, 2014, 09:57:11 AM »
^^^ I see. Yeah, they won't be doing any experimenting on them then  :)

From what I gather the extreme low temperature is a safety feature:

http://home.web.cern.ch/about/engineering/restarting-lhc-why-13-tev

Quote
At LHC beam energies, the electric currents are extremely high, up to 12,000 Amperes, and superconducting cables have to be used. Superconductivity is a low-temperature phenomenon, so the coils have to be kept very cold, just 1.9 degrees above absolute zero to be precise, or about -271°C. Even a tiny amount of energy released into the magnet for any reason can warm the coils up, stopping them from superconducting. When this happens, the current has to be safely extracted in a very short time. This is called a quench, and just one millijoule – the energy deposited by a 1-centime euro coin falling from 5 cm – is enough to provoke one. Magnet protection in case of quenches is a crucial part of the design of the LHC’s magnetic system. 

Online One Above All

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Re: LHC readied for return
« Reply #11 on: July 01, 2014, 10:01:33 AM »
I've heard several years ago (when I was still in high school; it was in my books, so the information is even older than that) of materials capable of becoming superconductors at temperatures up to 100ºK. Seems like a waste of energy to not use them, unless they're exceedingly hard to manufacture.
(This is not aimed at you; it's a general statement)
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Offline Mrjason

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Re: LHC readied for return
« Reply #12 on: July 01, 2014, 10:18:48 AM »
I've heard several years ago (when I was still in high school; it was in my books, so the information is even older than that) of materials capable of becoming superconductors at temperatures up to 100ºK. Seems like a waste of energy to not use them, unless they're exceedingly hard to manufacture.
(This is not aimed at you; it's a general statement)

Aparrently its do do with the type of superconductor and the effect of magnetic fields on them due to the Meissner effectWiki:

Quote
The superconducting state can be destroyed by a rise in temperature or in the applied magnetic field, which then penetrates the material and suppresses the Meissner effect. From this perspective, a distinction is made between two types of superconductors.Type-I materials remain in the superconducting state only for relatively weak applied magnetic fields. Above a given threshold, the field abruptly penetrates into the material, shattering the superconducting state. Conversely, Type-II superconductors tolerate local penetration of the magnetic field, which enables them to preserve their superconducting properties in the presence of intense applied magnetic fields. This behaviour is explained by the existence of a mixed state where superconducting and non-superconducting areas coexist within the material. Type-II superconductors have made it possible to use superconductivity in high magnetic fields, leading to the development, among other things, of magnets for particle accelerators.

http://home.web.cern.ch/about/engineering/superconductivity


This is just what I'm readng from the CERN site and a bit of wiki, but it does make sense to me. 
The low temperature superconductors are more stable under more stressful conditions

Then again I'm not the physicist :)


   
« Last Edit: July 01, 2014, 10:20:41 AM by Mrjason »

Online One Above All

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Re: LHC readied for return
« Reply #13 on: July 01, 2014, 10:22:39 AM »
This is just what I'm readng from the CERN site and a bit of wiki, but it does make sense to me. 
The low temperature superconductors are more stable under more stressful conditions

I don't understand why magnetic fields do that, but the effect makes sense. It'd be like trying to conduct electricity through a wire that had specks of dirt and such inside the wire itself.

Then again I'm not the physicist :)

Me neither. Future physicist at the moment.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
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Offline Mrjason

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Re: LHC readied for return
« Reply #14 on: July 01, 2014, 10:37:23 AM »
I don't understand why magnetic fields do that, but the effect makes sense. It'd be like trying to conduct electricity through a wire that had specks of dirt and such inside the wire itself.

So the question of why really really cold is needed is because "magnetic fields"

I feel like I've learned something :)

Then again I'm not the physicist :)

Me neither. Future physicist at the moment.

Its good to have a goal.

Offline Boots

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Re: LHC readied for return
« Reply #15 on: July 01, 2014, 10:44:44 AM »
By the way, electron volts and volts, Watts the difference?
emphasis added

don't worry Defiance.  I, at least, saw what you did there.
It's one of the reasons I'm an atheist today.  I decided to take my religion seriously, and that's when it started to fall apart for me.
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Online One Above All

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Re: LHC readied for return
« Reply #16 on: July 01, 2014, 10:45:31 AM »
By the way, electron volts and volts, Watts the difference?
emphasis added

don't worry Defiance.  I, at least, saw what you did there.

Pretty sure everyone saw it. However, puns aren't (usually) funny.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
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Offline Defiance

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Re: LHC readied for return
« Reply #17 on: July 01, 2014, 12:16:18 PM »
By the way, electron volts and volts, Watts the difference?
emphasis added

don't worry Defiance.  I, at least, saw what you did there.

Pretty sure everyone saw it. However, puns aren't (usually) funny.
Come on, electron jokes are funny.

Don't be so Negative.
"God is just and fair"
*God kills 2.5 million of people he KNEW would turn out like this in the flood*
*Humanity turns bad again, when God knew it would*
We should feel guilty for this.

Online One Above All

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Re: LHC readied for return
« Reply #18 on: July 01, 2014, 12:21:12 PM »
Come on, electron jokes are funny.

Don't be so Negative.

If you can find me a physics pun and/or joke that's funny and isn't one I've already heard and/or a variation of one I've already heard, I'll give you a +1.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
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Offline Defiance

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Re: LHC readied for return
« Reply #19 on: July 01, 2014, 01:07:44 PM »
So Heisenberg was driving down the road. He hears a cop turning on sirens behind him. So being the good guy, he stops and pulls over.

The cop gets out of his car and asks "Do you know how fast you were going?"

Heisenberg says "Officer, I don't know how fast I was going, but I know exactly where I am."
"God is just and fair"
*God kills 2.5 million of people he KNEW would turn out like this in the flood*
*Humanity turns bad again, when God knew it would*
We should feel guilty for this.

Online One Above All

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Re: LHC readied for return
« Reply #20 on: July 01, 2014, 01:12:52 PM »
Heard it.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

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