Author Topic: Why Exactly Does Biblegod Hate Homosexuals?  (Read 3472 times)

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Offline fishjie

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Re: Why Exactly Does Biblegod Hate Homosexuals?
« Reply #348 on: August 08, 2014, 07:28:24 PM »
And science was born. Religion has been on the ropes, fighting back tooth and nail ever since.

http://www.ldolphin.org/bumbulis/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_thinkers_in_science

it's not always so black and white.  from the birth of science to the many superior technical advances that western civilization has made, people of faith have been involved.  many historians agree that the impact christianity had on the development of modern science was positive.

If you look at history, most of the advances in the last few centuries came out of western civilization. Western civilization was (is) predominately christian. But you can't really say its a causal relationship. In the middle ages, once the church discovered the ancient classics, they tried to apply that same philosophical rigor to construct a theology. The advances in philosophy during this period are undeniable, but in doing so, it kind of sowed the seeds of its own destruction. The enlightenment followed, and it became increasingly difficult to reconcile the god described in multiple fragmented and disparate accounts in the bible with the advances in human knowledge.

That being said, I do know quite a few christian scientists and the thing is, they're quite good at compartmentalizing. They're very smart people, but it is damn scary to give up your religion. People who were never former believers have no idea....

Offline Willie

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Re: Why Exactly Does Biblegod Hate Homosexuals?
« Reply #349 on: August 08, 2014, 11:36:39 PM »
About 4% of the general population in the US does not believe in a god or higher power. About 40% of scientists in the US[1] do not believe in a god or higher power. Think about that for a moment. 40% of scientists drawn from a group that makes up only 4% of the general population. That's huge. The tiny non-believing portion of the population is MASSIVELY overrepresented in science, while god believers are badly underrepresented (33% of scientists vs. 83% of general population).[2]

Not a hindrance, you say? No way to objectively quantify this, you say? Baloney, I say.

Religious thinking is fundamentally incompatible with the practice of science. I guarantee you that any religious scientist who applied the same mode of thinking to science that he/she applies to religion would be a complete failure as a scientist. That people are generally pretty good at compartmentalizing is the only reason that there are ANY religious scientists at all.

Source: http://www.pewforum.org/2009/11/05/scientists-and-belief/
 1. The Pew poll actually sampled members of the American Association for the Advancement of Science, which is not necessarily representative of all US scientists. But the Pew article cites two other surveys of randomly selected scientists, which yielded similar numbers, so I believe that giving a value of "about 40%" for all US scientists is reasonable for the purpose of this discussion.
 2. In case you're wondering, the remainder is made up of believers in a generic "universal spirit" or "higher power" (18% of scientists vs. 12% of general population) and those who didn't know or refused to answer (7% of scientists vs. 1% of general population).
« Last Edit: August 09, 2014, 12:07:30 AM by Willie »

Offline screwtape

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Re: Why Exactly Does Biblegod Hate Homosexuals?
« Reply #350 on: August 11, 2014, 07:16:12 AM »
If you look at history, most of the advances in the last few centuries came out of western civilization. Western civilization was (is) predominately christian. But you can't really say its a causal relationship. In the middle ages, once the church discovered the ancient classics, they tried to apply that same philosophical rigor to construct a theology. The advances in philosophy during this period are undeniable, but in doing so, it kind of sowed the seeds of its own destruction. The enlightenment followed, and it became increasingly difficult to reconcile the god described in multiple fragmented and disparate accounts in the bible with the advances in human knowledge.

It's all about the Greeks.  They were on to something.  When the Romans discovered Greek culture, the Roman flourished.  When the empire fell, Europe went retarded.  But when Europe rediscoveed Greek ideas, as you point out, the renaissance happened and eventually the enlightenment. 

There was an article linked around here somewhere that pointed out this is one of the problems Islamic countries are having getting out of their funk.  They see the Greeks as degenerate pagans and perverts and turning to them for cultural/ intellectual inspiration is inthinkable.  And so they are stuck in a perpetual and growing dark age.

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Offline Nam

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Re: Why Exactly Does Biblegod Hate Homosexuals?
« Reply #351 on: August 11, 2014, 04:37:47 PM »
Precisely. Christians have gone down the road of "If our god says it's morally right to rape children, then it's morally right to rape children."

I'd still be interested to hear any Christians state why exactly they themselves think homosexuality is 'wrong'.

According to the NT, Biblegod raped Mary, who was most likely a child (12-15 years old) so, I think it already does.

The problem with the Christian and rationalisations is that if they disagree with it then it doesn't mean what it actually says, it means something else entirely.

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This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline Nam

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Re: Why Exactly Does Biblegod Hate Homosexuals?
« Reply #352 on: August 11, 2014, 04:43:14 PM »

To which I would reply, "No, because Paul condemns homosexuality in the NT. Had Paul condemned clothing of mixed fabric, you can bet your bottom dollar that we Christians would be following that as well."

Another attempt at a "Gotcha, Skep!" has failed.

So, you're saying "Paul" is Biblegod?

Because, apparently to you: what Paul says goes.

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

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Offline fishjie

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Re: Why Exactly Does Biblegod Hate Homosexuals?
« Reply #353 on: August 12, 2014, 01:41:04 PM »
If you look at history, most of the advances in the last few centuries came out of western civilization. Western civilization was (is) predominately christian. But you can't really say its a causal relationship. In the middle ages, once the church discovered the ancient classics, they tried to apply that same philosophical rigor to construct a theology. The advances in philosophy during this period are undeniable, but in doing so, it kind of sowed the seeds of its own destruction. The enlightenment followed, and it became increasingly difficult to reconcile the god described in multiple fragmented and disparate accounts in the bible with the advances in human knowledge.

It's all about the Greeks.  They were on to something.  When the Romans discovered Greek culture, the Roman flourished.  When the empire fell, Europe went retarded.  But when Europe rediscoveed Greek ideas, as you point out, the renaissance happened and eventually the enlightenment. 

There was an article linked around here somewhere that pointed out this is one of the problems Islamic countries are having getting out of their funk.  They see the Greeks as degenerate pagans and perverts and turning to them for cultural/ intellectual inspiration is inthinkable.  And so they are stuck in a perpetual and growing dark age.

The Arabic countries weren't always like this. I was visiting the musuem of science in Istanbul where it cataloged all the scientific/mathematic/engineering feats of the Arabs. They wrote lots of treatises on everything from medicine to astronomy. It was quite impressive. The concept of the number zero, whose importance cannot be understated, spread from the arabic world to the european world. I'm not really convinced on the whole religion being the antithesis of science. That's true for fundamentalist thinking, sure, but most people in church are not fundamentalist. They do not believe that earth is 6000 years old. The reason there are religious STEM people is because they can compartmentalize their beliefs, and they can compartmentalize their beliefs because for most people, the main purpose of religion is to create a community for people to make friends, socialize, and help one another out.

I've attended many churches in my lifetime, and with a lot of people I talked to, the vibe I got is that they don't reaaaaally believe any of this stuff. They believe that most of the stories in these ancient texts are allegorical in nature. On the spectrum of belief, most of them would be agnostic. One time I remember a pastor even giving a sermon about how converting people shouldn't be a big deal, and that we should all focus on being better people. Pretty sure he was one of the many people who attended seminary and became atheist/agnostic and continued delivering sermons to pay the bills. Now don't get me wrong, I also attended evangelical churches too, and they are pretty heavily anti evolution there. However for most people, believing in an inerrant bible is untenable.

Offline Nam

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Re: Why Exactly Does Biblegod Hate Homosexuals?
« Reply #354 on: August 12, 2014, 01:49:14 PM »
^the vast majority believe it where I live.
-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

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Offline screwtape

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Re: Why Exactly Does Biblegod Hate Homosexuals?
« Reply #355 on: August 12, 2014, 02:17:16 PM »
The Arabic countries weren't always like this.

According to the article (which I cannot find!), it began to happen fairly quickly.  There were two philosophical schools within the islamic empire, and the one that won out was the one that was virulently xenophobic and forbade any kind of idea that did not strictly come from islam.   It took a couple of centuries for it to shake out, and the vaunted intellectual achievements of muslims quickly became a thing of th past.

 I gotta find that article...
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Offline Nam

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Re: Why Exactly Does Biblegod Hate Homosexuals?
« Reply #356 on: August 12, 2014, 02:23:52 PM »
The Arabic countries weren't always like this.

According to the article (which I cannot find!), it began to happen fairly quickly.  There were two philosophical schools within the islamic empire, and the one that won out was the one that was virulently xenophobic and forbade any kind of idea that did not strictly come from islam.   It took a couple of centuries for it to shake out, and the vaunted intellectual achievements of muslims quickly became a thing of th past.

 I gotta find that article...

http://www.thenewatlantis.com/publications/why-the-arabic-world-turned-away-from-science

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline jdawg70

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Re: Why Exactly Does Biblegod Hate Homosexuals?
« Reply #357 on: August 12, 2014, 03:44:53 PM »
Old clip, but Neil Degrasse Tyson goes into a short bit of discourse regarding the Arabic world's rise and fall as an intellectual giant:


"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."

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