Author Topic: Why Exactly Does Biblegod Hate Homosexuals?  (Read 3374 times)

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Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Why Exactly Does Biblegod Hate Homosexuals?
« Reply #116 on: June 30, 2014, 08:52:36 PM »
Am I right in assuming that an asexual person has no interest in having sex with anyone, male or female? The idea of sex does not even make sense, there is no feeling of physical attraction to another human being. No sexual desire at all, not even for self-gratification. However, correct me if I am wrong, it is possible for an asexual person to feel love and affection for others, just not sexual attraction.

That is different from being celibate, ie choosing not to have sex, feeling attracted and being interested, but deciding not to do it. I imagine asexuality could also be a temporary situation, as with people who have been assaulted and that part of their makeup has just shut down for a while. After a few months of years they start to feel attracted again. Or it could be permanent, possibly genetic, and they never feel attracted to anyone.

Since asexual people are in the minority and face discrimination--mainly by being considered nonexistent--some have learned to fake attraction to others, date and even marry. (Hopefully, the person they marry knows that there will not be much sex happening.)

I am unfortunately basing most of this on an interview of an asexual person I saw on tv many years ago. I wonder what the biblical view of asexual people would be. It probably depends on whether the person is not attracted to the same sex (a sin)  or not attracted to the opposite sex (acceptable). ;D

Seriously, it could be that a lot of supposedly celibate religious types, monks, nuns and priests have actually been asexual. Being praised and rewarded and respected for giving up something that they never wanted in the first place. But at least not having to fake attraction to keep from being burned at the stake....
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline Mr. Blackwell

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Re: Why Exactly Does Biblegod Hate Homosexuals?
« Reply #117 on: June 30, 2014, 09:07:21 PM »
I think a truly masculine man is emotionally and intellectually honest. Is unafraid of his feelings or to let other people see them. A truly masculine man accepts others for who they are without feeling that who other people are is a reflection upon him. But I think the same applies to truly feminine females.

I was listening to NPR this past Friday and heard a great story about a truly masculine man and the advice he gave to his son. Actually it was a part of StoryCorps with the son recalling a story from his childhood about his sexuality and a story that involved his father.

Here is the Transcript.

Quote
Transcript
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Patrick Haggerty (PH): I'm riding to school with my oldest brother, and on the way to school, I'm putting glitter all over my face. And my brother said, "What in the hell are you doing?” And I said, "I'm putting on my costume.” And he said, "Well, I wouldn't be caught dead wearing that." So he dropped me off at the school, and he called my dad up, and he said, "Dad, I think you better get up there. This is not going to look good."
So my dad drove up to the high school. And he had his farmer jeans on and they had cow crap on them, and he had his clodhopper boots on. And when I saw him coming, I ducked around the hall and hid from him. And it wasn't because of what I was wearing, it was because of what he was wearing.
So, the assembly goes well, and I climb in the car and I'm riding home with my father. My father says to me, "I was walking down the hall this morning, and I saw a kid that looked a lot like you ducking around the hall to avoid his dad. But I know it wasn't you, cause you would never do that to your dad." And I squirmed in my seat, and I finally busted out and I said, "Well dad, did you have to wear your cow-crap jeans to my assembly?"
Robin Bolland (RB): (laughs)
And he said, "Look, everybody knows I'm a dairy farmer. This is who I am." And he looked me square in the eye. And then he said, "Now, how bout you? When you're a full-grown man, who are you gonna go out with at night?"
And I said, "I don't know." And he said, "I think you do know. Now, I'm gonna tell you something today, and you might not know what to think of it now, but you're gonna remember when you're an adult. Don't sneak. Because if you sneak, like you did today, it means you think you're doing the wrong thing. And if you run around spending your whole life thinking that you're doing the wrong thing, then you'll ruin your immortal soul.”
And out of all the things a father in 1959 could have told his gay son, my father tells me to be proud of myself and not sneak. My reaction at the time was to get out in the hay field and pretend like I was as much of a man as I could be. And I remember flipping 50-pound bales three feet up into the air going, "I'm not a queer. What's he talking about?"
RB: (laughs)
But he knew where I was headed. And he, he knew that humiliating me and making me feel bad about it in any way was the wrong thing to do. I had the patron saint of dads for sissies, and no, I didn't know at the time, but I know it now.

You may listen to the story yourself here...

http://storycorps.org/listen/patrick-haggerty/#
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Offline eh!

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Re: Why Exactly Does Biblegod Hate Homosexuals?
« Reply #118 on: June 30, 2014, 09:28:06 PM »
Biologically speaking i think asexual means reproduces with itself like some plants do??
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Re: Why Exactly Does Biblegod Hate Homosexuals?
« Reply #119 on: June 30, 2014, 09:35:31 PM »
For men to try and pork every other women they see is mostly considered normal and healthy if they are not being aggressive or to persistent. to show no interest at all is very confronting for a lot of hetero women and can bruise their ego and be most offended and they will make you feel bad about it so flirting is sometimes a survival thing in a social context.
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Offline Mr. Blackwell

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Re: Why Exactly Does Biblegod Hate Homosexuals?
« Reply #120 on: June 30, 2014, 09:35:38 PM »
Biologically speaking i think asexual means reproduces with itself like some plants do??

So...are you abstinent or asexual? I was abstinent for awhile...didn't bug me a bit. I have never self reproduced.
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Offline eh!

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Re: Why Exactly Does Biblegod Hate Homosexuals?
« Reply #121 on: June 30, 2014, 09:37:53 PM »
Well by the biological definition i have never impregnated myself and given birth so i am guessing abstinate.
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Offline eh!

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Re: Why Exactly Does Biblegod Hate Homosexuals?
« Reply #122 on: June 30, 2014, 09:39:31 PM »
Wow abstinate, celibate, non-sexual, asexual and almost no agreement on what any of it means.
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Offline Mr. Blackwell

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Re: Why Exactly Does Biblegod Hate Homosexuals?
« Reply #123 on: June 30, 2014, 09:39:42 PM »
For men to try and pork every other women they see is mostly considered normal and healthy if they are not being aggressive or to persistent. to show no interest at all is very confronting for a lot of hetero women and can bruise their ego and be most offended and they will make you feel bad about it so flirting is sometimes a survival thing in a social context.

You ain't kidding. I've had girlfriends I LIVED with suspect or try to convince me that I am gay because sex is just not very high on my to do list. Meh. I have offended a couple of women because I didn't have sex with them.
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Offline eh!

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Re: Why Exactly Does Biblegod Hate Homosexuals?
« Reply #124 on: June 30, 2014, 09:41:38 PM »
You should have just said you found her to ugly. that would have fixed it....
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Offline Mr. Blackwell

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Re: Why Exactly Does Biblegod Hate Homosexuals?
« Reply #125 on: June 30, 2014, 09:45:26 PM »
You should have just said you found her to ugly. that would have fixed it....

Well that's just bullshit and you know it. Why should I insult someone just because I am not "in the mood"?
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Offline eh!

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Re: Why Exactly Does Biblegod Hate Homosexuals?
« Reply #126 on: June 30, 2014, 10:01:19 PM »
Payback. i wasn't in the mood this night and the all went silent for a minute and then the shit hit the fan and she started throwing shit and screaming YOUR FUKING SOMEBODY ELSE....she ended up crying her eyes out saying she is too fat over and over. by the time i sorted all that out i think i became celibate at that point. fark i was working 3 jobs and was actually plain old tired.
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Offline Defiance

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Re: Why Exactly Does Biblegod Hate Homosexuals?
« Reply #127 on: June 30, 2014, 10:33:51 PM »
That escalated quickly...
"God is just and fair"
*God kills 2.5 million of people he KNEW would turn out like this in the flood*
*Humanity turns bad again, when God knew it would*
We should feel guilty for this.

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Re: Why Exactly Does Biblegod Hate Homosexuals?
« Reply #128 on: June 30, 2014, 11:53:09 PM »
What causes homosexuality?

The same thing that caused a guy to invent a new version of christianity in the 1870's that you now treat as the only right religion. People like to do whatever the heck they want, be it invent religions or climb in bed with someone of the same sex. It isn't "caused" so much as it "happens", because people are seldom big into reasons when all they want is to do what they want.

About 10% of mammalian species exhibit temporary or permanent homosexual preferences. We're mammals. So there must be a little gene action going on there. Toss in culture, social pressures, less than perfect thought and decision making processes, the fact that "love" is most often aimed at people who make us happy, not people we actually care about, and the occasional non-standard choice in gender preferences is frickin' inevitable.

But it boils down to this. Its natural, but you don't like it, so that makes you define it as unnatural because you assume that your judgment on the issue is perfect. There is no pleasing you with any answer that is contrary to your own. You were just asking to make yourself sound open-minded. Which is impossible given the limits imposed by your beliefs.

The real question should be this: What causes a person to artificially shrink the size of their own brain for the sake of an similarly limited belief system that has nothing to offer but lies and misinterpretations. However, I don't expect you to see the relevance of that line of thinking. Or thinking at all, for that matter. Carry on.
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Online skeptic54768

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Re: Why Exactly Does Biblegod Hate Homosexuals?
« Reply #129 on: July 01, 2014, 01:18:10 AM »
But it boils down to this. Its natural, but you don't like it, so that makes you define it as unnatural because you assume that your judgment on the issue is perfect.

What would you say if I did this?:

But it boils down to this. It's natural (rape), but you don't like it, so that makes you define it as unnatural because you assume your judgment on the issue is perfect.

Is that fair or unfair?
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline Ron Jeremy

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Re: Why Exactly Does Biblegod Hate Homosexuals?
« Reply #130 on: July 01, 2014, 01:56:20 AM »
But it boils down to this. Its natural, but you don't like it, so that makes you define it as unnatural because you assume that your judgment on the issue is perfect.

What would you say if I did this?:

But it boils down to this. It's natural (rape), but you don't like it, so that makes you define it as unnatural because you assume your judgment on the issue is perfect.

Is that fair or unfair?

Rape is abhorrent to many cultures including my own but I can't see how one can class it as un-natural? It happens all over the animal world. It seems a day doesn't go by these days without a news station reporting how some villagers in Pakistan carried out a 'punishment rape'. So abhorrent - yes, un-natural? No.

Please look for another example.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - An example of a clearly demonstrably false biblical 'prophesy'.

The biblical myth of a 6000 year old Earth is proven false by the Gaia satellite directly measuring star age.

Offline eh!

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Re: Why Exactly Does Biblegod Hate Homosexuals?
« Reply #131 on: July 01, 2014, 02:31:16 AM »
Agree abhorrent but not unnatural.
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Offline jdawg70

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Re: Why Exactly Does Biblegod Hate Homosexuals?
« Reply #132 on: July 01, 2014, 08:21:51 AM »
What would you say if I did this?:

But it boils down to this. It's natural (rape), but you don't like it, so that makes you define it as unnatural because you assume your judgment on the issue is perfect.

Is that fair or unfair?

Is empathy really such a foreign concept to you?  How is it that, every time you manufacture one of these 'gotcha' moral questions, you always seem to fail to consider the effects of the action on others.

"Oh, in atheist morality land, why is what Hitler did bad?"
"Oh, in atheist morality land, why is rape bad?"
"Oh, in atheist morality land, why is murder bad?"

Well, in atheist morality land, we make considerations for the detriment and suffering of others damn it!  The reason why masturbation isn't immoral in atheist morality land is because it's an action that doesn't hurt anyone.  The reason why homosexual consensual sex isn't immoral in atheist morality land is because it's an action that doesn't hurt anyone.  The reason why rape is immoral in atheist morality land is because someone is getting f*cking hurt.  The reason that Hitlers actions were immoral in atheist morality land is because someone was getting f*cking hurt.  The reason that murder is immoral in atheist morality land is because someone is getting f*cking hurt.

"Oh, but what about killing someone to save your own life and the lives of countless others?  Why isn't that immoral in atheist morality land, huh Mr. Smart Atheist?"

Look...I know that morality would be a whole heck of a lot easier if you could just look up the answer in the back of the book for any situation.  I know that it's sort of a pain in the ass to have to, you know, assess any given situation and accept that fact that moral choices are not always black and white.  I know that it kind of sucks to have to spend time thinking about the ramifications and results of an action on others.

But, for crying out loud, questions on morality necessarily entail incorporating the subjective response of subjective entities - be it the victims, the perpetrators, the witnesses, or those indirectly affected by actions.  Yet you seem hell bent on ignoring that aspect, and it's making you come across as lacking empathy.  And sometimes making a moral evaluation of an action is tough and unclear - after all, we're fallible creatures with access to only imperfect information, and I realize that sucks, but thems the breaks.
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Offline YRM_DM

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Re: Why Exactly Does Biblegod Hate Homosexuals?
« Reply #133 on: July 01, 2014, 08:22:51 AM »
But it boils down to this. Its natural, but you don't like it, so that makes you define it as unnatural because you assume that your judgment on the issue is perfect.

What would you say if I did this?:

But it boils down to this. It's natural (rape), but you don't like it, so that makes you define it as unnatural because you assume your judgment on the issue is perfect.

Is that fair or unfair?

Unfair for the following reasons.

1 - Rape is violating and harming another, unique individual against their will.   It's more comparable to murder or theft or assault.   The only place where rape is OK is if god has Moses sack a town and after his soldiers kill a young virgin's family in front of her, and give her some grieving time, they can force her to become a wife to one of the Israelites.   Then it's ok because god condones it right?

2 - Homosexual relationship is two consenting people choosing to be in that relationship together.   Them doing so isn't hurting you or violating anyone else's rights.   We're not talking about prison rape here, we're talking about two people who volunteered and are happy to be in the situation they're in.

So in your example, a person is violating the Golden Rule... doing unto others what they would not want done to them.    In the homosexual relationship, both partners are just fine with what they're doing to each other.

The argument shouldn't be "what is natural" but "is it harming another human being against their will?"
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Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: Why Exactly Does Biblegod Hate Homosexuals?
« Reply #134 on: July 01, 2014, 10:55:02 AM »
Rape is not bad in theists anthologies,as long as the rapist pays the correct amount to the father of the victim,marriage is the result
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Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Why Exactly Does Biblegod Hate Homosexuals?
« Reply #135 on: July 01, 2014, 12:14:32 PM »
The more I read the theists' comments here , the more I think that they really dislike people doing what they want in their personal lives. They are into order and stability, dictatorship-style with the dictator being their god. So, if people are oppressed, enslaved or hurt, it is okay as long as it is okay with their god. The point is to control people, even when what the people want is just different, maybe strange or even icky, but basically harmless to others.

That is the only way any of this weird "being gay is the same as serial killing or stealing someone's car or raping some random person or starving an entire country" sh!t makes any sense. It's all against their god and therefore all equally bad in their eyes, somehow.

Scary. Like Saudi Arabia or the Taliban.
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline Mr. Blackwell

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Re: Why Exactly Does Biblegod Hate Homosexuals?
« Reply #136 on: July 01, 2014, 01:55:32 PM »
Seems to me that everything is natural except for god/s. Is it strange that some humans believe that a god (which is super-natural by definition) hates everything natural...or is that thought process just a natural result of self loathing?

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Re: Why Exactly Does Biblegod Hate Homosexuals?
« Reply #137 on: July 01, 2014, 01:58:53 PM »
But it boils down to this. Its natural, but you don't like it, so that makes you define it as unnatural because you assume that your judgment on the issue is perfect.

What would you say if I did this?:

But it boils down to this. It's natural (rape), but you don't like it, so that makes you define it as unnatural because you assume your judgment on the issue is perfect.

Is that fair or unfair?

Others have responded nicely to your sickening comparison.

When people are being hurt by other people, then something is wrong. If you can't see the difference between rape and consensual homosexual activities, then you are in no position to be judging anything morally in the first place.

There are things that are considered socially acceptable that I disagree with. But I don't run around demanding that those things all come to a grinding halt just because I don't like them. I recognize that my standards shouldn't automatically be the basis for every judgment call on what is right and wrong.

What I do instead is make sure I am not engaged in the things I disagree with. Which is more than I can say for many a christian who spoke out loud and clear against gays while having secret sexual encounters with them at the same time.

You do know, don't you, that research shows that ardently anti-gay people are more turned on by gay pornography than straight people. So much so that I tend to assume that the more against homosexuality one is, the more likely that that person either secretly wants such a relationship or is in one. Which makes me feel sorry for them. I couldn't live like that. Keeping such big secrets like that.

Notice I'm not saying anything about thinking that perhaps you get turned on by rape. See what a nice guy I am?
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Offline Jag

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Re: Why Exactly Does Biblegod Hate Homosexuals?
« Reply #138 on: July 01, 2014, 02:18:26 PM »
WTF is it with skep and his reliance on his "rape" example as an attempted counter argument? He should come with a warning label about his obsession over sex that he doesn't participate in, and an additional one for his frequent rape references. Way to share that christian "love" skepdude!

What a twisted, sick individual.


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Re: Why Exactly Does Biblegod Hate Homosexuals?
« Reply #139 on: July 01, 2014, 02:57:30 PM »
I said you are trying to study masculinity.  What sort of specimen would you want?
If I were for some strange reason to decide to undertake an ill-defined study such as this, the next thing I would do is request clarification because this makes no sense as written.

"Masculinity is a set of qualities, characteristics or roles generally considered typical of, or appropriate to, a man. It can have degrees of comparison: "more masculine", "most masculine'".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masculinity
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Re: Why Exactly Does Biblegod Hate Homosexuals?
« Reply #140 on: July 01, 2014, 03:33:47 PM »
What was the point again?
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Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Why Exactly Does Biblegod Hate Homosexuals?
« Reply #141 on: July 01, 2014, 04:16:29 PM »
I said you are trying to study masculinity.  What sort of specimen would you want?
If I were for some strange reason to decide to undertake an ill-defined study such as this, the next thing I would do is request clarification because this makes no sense as written.

"Masculinity is a set of qualities, characteristics or roles generally considered typical of, or appropriate to, a man. It can have degrees of comparison: "more masculine", "most masculine'".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masculinity

So, like I asked before, are you making a list of superficial "masculine" characteristics (maybe more body hair, deeper voice, stronger upper body, bigger feet and hands as compared to females) and look for "specimens" ie men who have those characteristics in spades? Hairy as King Kong, voice like Barry White, chest like the Hulk.

I don't think you would end up with a "typical" man that way--most guys are more average like Bill Gates or Martin Freeman than extreme examples like Mr T or [fans self] Chris Hemsworth. And by selecting people based on superficial extremely masculine characteristics, you still might end up choosing a hairy, deep voiced, iron-pumping gay guy. Which I am assuming is not what you want.

Mr. B suggested that ideal masculinity is about having courage and character, standing up for what you believe in, teaching good values to kids. Like that scout leader who was kicked out by the organization because of the gay, but the parents and the kids want him back because of his good character, courage, values.[1]

I am still wondering what it is you are after here.  :-\
 1. Or my daughter's uncle, a gay guy who inherited money and used it to fund a program for troubled youth in his rural home town. That program is now one of the best in the state, giving poor kids, esp the native kids with addictions, family violence, etc. a positive place to hang out, play video games, get hot lunch, see doctors, talk to counselors.
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

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Re: Why Exactly Does Biblegod Hate Homosexuals?
« Reply #142 on: July 01, 2014, 04:23:57 PM »
He is after derailing the thread to avoid answers that make his god appear stoopid.
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Offline Jag

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Re: Why Exactly Does Biblegod Hate Homosexuals?
« Reply #143 on: July 01, 2014, 04:42:17 PM »
I said you are trying to study masculinity.  What sort of specimen would you want?
If I were for some strange reason to decide to undertake an ill-defined study such as this, the next thing I would do is request clarification because this makes no sense as written.

"Masculinity is a set of qualities, characteristics or roles generally considered typical of, or appropriate to, a man. It can have degrees of comparison: "more masculine", "most masculine'".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masculinity

Despite the part you quoted, you have actually addressed my first request and ignored the quoted one.

I'm assuming you are saying that I can use this definition; that works for me. Now please clarify what I'm supposed to be studying. "Typical" and "appropriate to" are quite a bit more vague than you seem to grasp yet.

Let's start with something simple - which cultural standard do you suggest I use, because I certainly can't just arbitrarily decide what qualifies as "typical" and "appropriate to" with no flipping context whatsoever.

Well, actually I can, but I'm giving you an opportunity to stop stonewalling and step up.
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Offline Jstwebbrowsing

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Re: Why Exactly Does Biblegod Hate Homosexuals?
« Reply #144 on: July 01, 2014, 05:08:48 PM »
I said you are trying to study masculinity.  What sort of specimen would you want?
If I were for some strange reason to decide to undertake an ill-defined study such as this, the next thing I would do is request clarification because this makes no sense as written.

"Masculinity is a set of qualities, characteristics or roles generally considered typical of, or appropriate to, a man. It can have degrees of comparison: "more masculine", "most masculine'".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masculinity

Despite the part you quoted, you have actually addressed my first request and ignored the quoted one.

I'm assuming you are saying that I can use this definition; that works for me. Now please clarify what I'm supposed to be studying. "Typical" and "appropriate to" are quite a bit more vague than you seem to grasp yet.

Let's start with something simple - which cultural standard do you suggest I use, because I certainly can't just arbitrarily decide what qualifies as "typical" and "appropriate to" with no flipping context whatsoever.

Well, actually I can, but I'm giving you an opportunity to stop stonewalling and step up.

You want to study the differences in brain chemical and behavior between a man that is  masculine versus a woman that is feminine and use whichever culture you prefer.
 
Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Isaiah 43:10