Author Topic: Nowhere to Run and Hide  (Read 2741 times)

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Offline junebug72

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Re: Nowhere to Run and Hide
« Reply #29 on: July 01, 2014, 08:09:26 AM »
It will take that long to save us all!!!  Unless there is/are God/s.

Save us all?  We'll all be dead by then regardless, human lifespans being limited as they are.  As for humanity as a species, something else will probably kill us all off long before the sun does.

My point is this.  There is a very DARK side to science that is just as scary as anything found in religion.   The things that are causing climate change are/were created by scientist.

Science just gives us knowledge.  What we do with that knowledge is where our human darkness comes in.

The cause for over population, created by scientist and the excuse we're animals, we can not help ourselves.  Granted there are other causes for over population such as low self esteems and narcissism.

Areas with more scientific knowledge (ie. first world countries) tend to have lower rates of population growth.  As for causes of overpopulation, I think the main one is peoples' desires to have a family.  Apparently that's evil.

I know that but we might have descendants around.

with that attitude prolly so. ;)

That's kind of what I said.  ;)

No third world country is even close to being over populated is it?  Many do not make it to 5 years old.  They're life expectancy is probably 50/55.   That's because we don't share enough of the planet's resources with them.  It's disgusting when you think how much this country wastes.
 
I don't think it's evil but I don't think it's right to tell a family how many kids they can have.  We figure it out as a society w/o fear working for common needs.  We don't need an Ingle's, local grocery store, every 1/4 mile.  We don't need thousands of different department stores.  Things can be ordered on line.  Lot's of people working filling orders.  That would make room for a lot more humans and not put people out of work.  They should actually be well paid employees because it would be a booming success for all that money to be in 1 place instead of scattered around.

I also believe when it gets to the point that we are getting low on resources a lot of people will do what's right according to a society that treasures every life on the planet.

This is why there must be death.  We will never evolve to be immortal.  That's why I believe Something controls evolution.   I believe Something has been in control of "creation" from the start of planet Earth.  This Galaxy.  I don't believe God created the universe but is an
Essential part of it. 

We do not die by CHANCE.  We die because we must.  That is knowledge...  IMHO.

We do not live by CHANCE.  We live because we must.  That is knowledge...  IMHO.

Okay enough; I know. :-X




Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
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Offline junebug72

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Re: Nowhere to Run and Hide
« Reply #30 on: July 01, 2014, 08:13:29 AM »
If we took the funds we dedicate to

1) War and military spending
2) Homeland Security
3) Religion

and concentrated the monetary resources to advance technology in all fields we would be on out way out to the stars in a very short time.

A large space station for scientist to conduct large experiments. A proper station with artificial gravity living spaces to stop degradation of the habitants.

From there a very short hop to the moon to establish a base and start mining resources such as Thorium.

Only way to discover how to manipulate the fabric of space time to allow for faster than light travel is to conduct experimentation out of the confines of Earths gravitational field.

They even think we can have colonies on Asteroids.  There are plenty of those. :)  Oh yea and plenty of rare commodities and precious metals that can be mined.
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
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Offline junebug72

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Re: Nowhere to Run and Hide
« Reply #31 on: July 01, 2014, 08:26:24 AM »
Also, we can't take sick people. Sounds wrong, but it may be like that.

1) You don't want to waste even more resources on a dying person.
2) You don't want to infect others, or pass on the sickness to kids.

If we want a recolonization, we need the strongest of the humans. If we take weak or sick, we'll end up weak. Strong humans have a higher chance of creating a stronger race that can survive.

Or, because, you know... sick humans won't be able to make the journey safely (that is, not die).

Who knows maybe the new environment may cure them.  Still too harsh for me.  Leave no one behind!  Especially not the helpless.
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
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Offline junebug72

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Re: Nowhere to Run and Hide
« Reply #32 on: July 01, 2014, 08:29:40 AM »
No I'm not conflating. If we had to take even the sick, lets say HIV positive, who says that it wouldn't be spread to others and his offspring wouldn't catch it?

Therefore, if somehow we kept them (the "infected" generation") alive til we made landfall, what says that the colony would just as strong as it would be if no one had HIV?

Would you rather have a colony with HIV or no? Obviously the latter, since the first would cause serious problems, in addition to trying to conform to a new world (aka: gravity, daylight timings, etc.)

They have the right to die with friends and family.   Not alone helpless on a dying planet.   I guess I will stay behind to care for them to hold their hand, at least my bloodline will.  Good luck on your journey of disgust.
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
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Offline One Above All

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Re: Nowhere to Run and Hide
« Reply #33 on: July 01, 2014, 08:31:12 AM »
Who knows maybe the new environment may cure them.

First, they wouldn't make it at all. They'd die on their way there. Second, what new environment? The goal is to recreate the same environment as here on Earth. At best you get a slightly thinner atmosphere, which isn't a cure for anything.

Still too harsh for me.  Leave no one behind!  Especially not the helpless.

As it has been explained to you several times, the goal is not to leave people here to die. It's to colonize. When Portugal colonized Africa, did everyone in Portugal die? No, they did not.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

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Offline junebug72

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Re: Nowhere to Run and Hide
« Reply #34 on: July 01, 2014, 08:42:13 AM »
No, it is not morally wrong to only take a small percentage.

Yes it is.  Oh yea and how will the ones left behind die.  Burned up by the sun.  Burned I tell you burned.  Billions of people burned. 

Defiance you sound like Hitler.  Damn dude that is depressing.  Charles Lindberg decided that was amoral a long time ago after he smelled the stink of death at a concentration camp.  I watch Dark Matters. :o  that's some scary shit. 

Science fights for the planet and Science destroys the planet.  It's really effed up.  It's really people though. ;)  Science is just a name given to a study.

Religion tries to save souls but destroys souls. 

There is nowhere to run and hide.
Can you please tell me how science prompts people to destroy the planet, completely out of their own will?

And please, explain what is so morally wrong about trying to preserve the human race? Junebug, we CAN'T take everybody simply because there are too many. And that we don't have the resources. Plus humans have imperfections that could start messing with survival.

Assuming we had 8 billion people by the time we finished a spacecraft.

Do you realise how big that space craft would be? We can't make them fit like Apollo astronauts, sinc ethat space craft is meant to be a new hone, and therefore accommodate people. I don't know but it would take lots of resources and LOTS of building materials. And it must (only way i know) be cyclindrical to spin and keep gravity. And we could only live on the outer fringes of that cylinder to have artificial gravity caused by the centrifugal forces.

Now, would you allow the sick, as in HIV, cancer, diabetic, and other diseases, to be aboard? How about serial killers and rapists? How about all the prisoners? Should we take the psychopath who, if got out, would start another killing spree? How about animals? Trees?

'Kay.

You build enough.

They should not be left behind to die alone.  If they die so what, we will set them free.

Who knows maybe the new environment may cure them.

First, they wouldn't make it at all. They'd die on their way there. Second, what new environment? The goal is to recreate the same environment as here on Earth. At best you get a slightly thinner atmosphere, which isn't a cure for anything.

Still too harsh for me.  Leave no one behind!  Especially not the helpless.

As it has been explained to you several times, the goal is not to leave people here to die. It's to colonize. When Portugal colonized Africa, did everyone in Portugal die? No, they did not.

If people can leave helpless people behind to save their own arses we are preserving the worst of us.

One the "topic" is the sun dying and taking Earth with it.  You can offer colonization as a better way.  It's better that you don't try to make me look ignorant because I'm not. ;)
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
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Offline junebug72

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Re: Nowhere to Run and Hide
« Reply #35 on: July 01, 2014, 08:51:12 AM »

Can you please tell me how science prompts people to destroy the planet, completely out of their own will?

I don't quite understand this question.  Here's my answer as I interpret it.

Because science offers pleasures, lots of profits and laziness.  These things prevail over the "good science".
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
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Offline One Above All

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Re: Nowhere to Run and Hide
« Reply #36 on: July 01, 2014, 08:52:38 AM »
If people can leave helpless people behind to save their own arses we are preserving the worst of us.

Nobody is being left behind. People are moving to a new home. Did I leave my grandmother behind when I moved out with my mom? Did my brother leave my mom and me behind when he moved out? No.

One the "topic" is the sun dying and taking Earth with it.

Your idea is ridiculous. If, in about 4.5 billion years, we don't figure out how to save our planet, or at least the things on it, we've either already exterminated ourselves, or have regressed into another dark age that lasted almost as long as the time our sun has left.

You can offer colonization as a better way.

Colonization is a better way. On the one hand, you have the extinction of the entire biosphere on this planet. On the other you have survival; the preservation of all of Earth's ecosystems. The choice seems pretty obvious.

It's better that you don't try to make me look ignorant because I'm not. ;)

Everyone is ignorant. Just because we know a few things doesn't make us smart.

Because science offers pleasures, lots of profits and laziness.  These things prevail over the "good science".

So "good science" is science that offers pain, loss of money, and increased labor?
« Last Edit: July 01, 2014, 08:57:55 AM by One Above All »
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

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Offline junebug72

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Re: Nowhere to Run and Hide
« Reply #37 on: July 01, 2014, 09:00:19 AM »

I blame a lack of comprehensive sex ed and lack of access to dependable birth control. Your view is centered on certain lifestyles that are not the norm across the world.

This just is not so.  Every school teaches sex ed.  There are free condoms all over the place.  It can not compete with sex everywhere. 

It can not compete with a young girls need to be loved because her dad sucks.  It can not compete with the pats on the back every young boy gets for getting a girl. 

There are benefits to waiting until you're married.  Especially for the child.

I had to learn the hard way.  Yea video games too.  No good for children.  Some of the best times I spent playing Mario and Donkey Kong with Wes.  Little did I know I was doing the worse thing I should.
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
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Offline Defiance

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Re: Nowhere to Run and Hide
« Reply #38 on: July 01, 2014, 09:02:42 AM »
Build enough? Im not calling you ignorant, but you dont understand the enormity of that task.

"God is just and fair"
*God kills 2.5 million of people he KNEW would turn out like this in the flood*
*Humanity turns bad again, when God knew it would*
We should feel guilty for this.

Offline junebug72

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Re: Nowhere to Run and Hide
« Reply #39 on: July 01, 2014, 09:04:39 AM »
Quote
One

Your idea is ridiculous. If, in about 4.5 billion years, we don't figure out how to save our planet, or at least the things on it, we've either already exterminated ourselves, or have regressed into another dark age that lasted almost as long as the time our sun has left.

It's not my idea.  I saw it on Science channel.  ha ha ha  Gotcha again.  You should never under estimate your opponent ONE. 
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
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Offline junebug72

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Re: Nowhere to Run and Hide
« Reply #40 on: July 01, 2014, 09:07:29 AM »
Build enough? Im not calling you ignorant, but you dont understand the enormity of that task.

Yes I do.  If you think the people that you are trying to leave behind won't blow your little ship up you are sadly mistaken.  Nobody will go unless you do what's right.  Will you shoot people like the mates on the Titanic? 

Not everybody will want to go. 
« Last Edit: July 01, 2014, 09:09:30 AM by junebug72 »
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
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Offline One Above All

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Re: Nowhere to Run and Hide
« Reply #41 on: July 01, 2014, 09:19:11 AM »
I had to learn the hard way.  Yea video games too.  No good for children.  Some of the best times I spent playing Mario and Donkey Kong with Wes.  Little did I know I was doing the worse thing I should.

Bull-fucking-shit.
I've played video games all my life. In fact, one of my oldest memories is me playing Pokémon Red for the first time. Yet I've never started a fight (even taking into account fights others started, I only ever got into one fight all my life), I've never killed anyone (obviously, or I'd be in prison), and so on. In fact, for about a week now, I've been playing a game where the way to beat your foes is by, quite literally, slicing them into tiny pieces. Yet I've never killed an enemy that didn't threaten me (there are enemies who will actually drop to their knees and beg for you not to kill them, so I don't; others sometimes lose their legs and pose no threat to me, so I just go away until the game makes them disappear). I've played Bioshock. I could never push the button that makes you kill the Little Sisters and take all their ADAM. Ever. The idea of killing a little girl who has done nothing to you and can't do anything to you makes me sick, even in a video game. I've played Metal Gear Solid 1, 2, and 4. I finished the first one a couple of times, and I haven't killed anyone I didn't have to (bosses, mostly) since then. Same with the second one. The fourth one I just knocked them out after beating the game several times to get a good idea of what to expect. I've played Battlefield 1, 2, and 3. I've played several CoD's. I've played Pokémon (love those games). I finished Mass Effect 3 three separate times just to make sure I could save both the Geth and Quarians, as I couldn't save both of them the first couple of times. I've played Mass Effect 2 several times, finally resorting to search online for a way to save your entire team for the last mission. I've also played less violent games like Harvest Moon (also love this series), Sim City (2, 3, and 4), The Sims (1, 2, and 3), CLUE, Monopoly, Yahtzee (though I don't get the appeal), Nintendogs, and so on. I still have my Tamagotchi from when I was a kid (think 8 years old) in my desk drawer. It's still working perfectly; the battery's just dead.
Games are not bad for children. Mentally ill children are bad for people.

It's not my idea.  I saw it on Science channel.  ha ha ha  Gotcha again.

You accept it as valid, or you were being dishonest when you put it forward.
Look up argumentum ab auctoritate some time, by the way. The fact that it was on TV, regardless of the channel, doesn't make it any less ridiculous.

You should never under estimate your opponent ONE. 

You make it sound as if you're a threat to me. You're not.
You should never overestimate yourself.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken_rjcf/Lucifer/All In One.

Offline junebug72

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Re: Nowhere to Run and Hide
« Reply #42 on: July 01, 2014, 09:36:18 AM »

I know. What I'm saying is that "after we get rid of pollution" is a painfully vague timeline, and in anticipation of that being impossible (due to a worldwide population that doubles roughly every 50 years or so, among many, many others things), we need to make alternative plans. There's absolutely no reason to think that we, as a species, are suddenly going to STOP reproducing at this rate, so any plans for the "future of mankind" necessarily will include options to populate other potentially habitable planets.

I'm not suggesting that we should stop trying to correct climate change/pollution, but that's not going to be enough. Short of some disaster that eliminates a significant portion of the population, or some out-of-nowhere choice to limit population growth, what else CAN we do?

I'm sorry, I disagree with that as much as I disagree with Armageddon.  I find it very difficult to believe as smart as some of us are, that we can not come up with a solution.  I was watching this documentary on the History Channel.  There was a scientist there that had solutions to water shortage.   There was another that had solutions for food preservation.  The answer is in educating the public.  Which is hard to do when the people causing it owns the media.  That's why I tune in to Free speech TV or Link TV; for honest journalism.

There is still plenty of room on this planet.  I made some good points here I think.

me:
Quote
I don't think it's evil but I don't think it's right to tell a family how many kids they can have.  We figure it out as a society w/o fear working for common needs.  We don't need an Ingle's, local grocery store, every 1/4 mile.  We don't need thousands of different department stores.  Things can be ordered on line.  Lot's of people working filling orders.  That would make room for a lot more humans and not put people out of work.  They should actually be well paid employees because it would be a booming success for all that money to be in 1 place instead of scattered around.

me
Quote
I also believe when it gets to the point that we are getting low on resources a lot of people will do what's right according to a society that treasures every life on the planet.

me
Quote
This is why there must be death.  We will never evolve to be immortal.  That's why I believe Something controls evolution.   I believe Something has been in control of "creation" from the start of planet Earth.  This Galaxy.  I don't believe God created the universe but is an Essential part of it. 


me
Quote
We do not die by CHANCE.  We die because we must.  That is knowledge...  IMHO.

We do not live by CHANCE.  We live because we must.  That is knowledge...  IMHO.

Okay enough; I know. :-X

Your position about "deserving" another planet still assumes a "reason" for existence -

No it doesn't.  It is true under humanity's moral laws. 

Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
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Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Nowhere to Run and Hide
« Reply #43 on: July 01, 2014, 09:50:18 AM »
Build enough? Im not calling you ignorant, but you dont understand the enormity of that task.

Yes I do. 

Cool. 

How much fuel is required to lift 6 billion people out of earth orbit and move them to the closest other solar system?
How much metal is required to house 6 billion people for the journey - along with sufficient food and water?

With the greatest respect, I do not think you DO understand how enormous a task it would be to move the entire population of Earth to another planet.  Which means we are left with just two options[1].

1) Move nobody to another planet.
2) Move some people to another planet.

It seems you are saying that (1) is the more moral option - is that correct?
 1. Assuming that this planet is no longer viable.
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline junebug72

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Re: Nowhere to Run and Hide
« Reply #44 on: July 01, 2014, 09:55:31 AM »
OAA
Quote
Bull-fucking-shit.

You make it sound as if you're a threat to me. You're not.
You should never overestimate yourself.

You are not my son.  It is not bullshit.  He puts that game first always, not matter what.  He misses work because he stayed up too late playing video games.  Then gets fired or quits.  You don't have children.  My son does.  All he wants to do is play video games. 

I'm not over estimating myself.  Just giving you sound advice.   You keep treating me like I'm ignorant and it keeps embarrassing you.

Wow you are very defensive of of video games too.  It's precious time wasted that you can't get back.  We only have 4 mins to save the world.  I see it as choosing virtual reality over actual reality.  That's 25 years of experience.  That's doing the experiment and seeing the final result.  Young men are hiding in their x boxes and play stations.  their girls are getting pregnant and the boyz can not support them because of them video games. 
« Last Edit: July 01, 2014, 10:53:46 AM by junebug72 »
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
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Offline Azdgari

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Re: Nowhere to Run and Hide
« Reply #45 on: July 01, 2014, 09:58:00 AM »
Why did you add Anfauglir's quote to that post if you had no intention of responding to him?
The highest moral human authority is copied by our Gandhi neurons through observation.

Offline One Above All

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Re: Nowhere to Run and Hide
« Reply #46 on: July 01, 2014, 10:13:04 AM »
You are not my son.

True.

It is not bullshit.

False.

He puts that game first always, not matter what.  He misses work because he stayed up too late playing video games.  Then gets fired or quits.  You don't have children.  My son does.  All he wants to do is play video games. 

Then your son needs to learn responsibility. Video games are not to blame; his parents are. Yes, I'm blaming you.

I'm not over estimating myself.  Just giving you sound advice.   You keep treating me like I'm ignorant and it keeps embarrassing you.

I'm not treating you like you're ignorant. You are ignorant. As I've said, everyone is ignorant, myself included. However, I am less ignorant than you. I'd bet my life on that.

Wow you are very defensive of of video games too.

Maybe because I like doing things I like. How would you feel if you couldn't go out, ever, because a rock might hit and kill you because you were watching ants? You also realize that humans need to relax every once in a while, right? We need entertainment. Since video games don't harm anyone, video games are OK, ethically speaking.

It's precious time wasted that you can't get back.

Depends on your definition of "waste". If you mean "used" or "spent", then everything is time wasted. If you mean mismanaged, you still don't have anything to base your point on. Everyone mismanages their time.
Also, time can't be returned to us, regardless. Your point is moot.

We only have 4 mins to save the world.

I'm doing my part. Are you?

I see it as choosing virtual reality over actual reality.

I see it as doing something because I like.

That's 25 years of experience.

I highly doubt that. Or, at the very least, I doubt you are mentally sound enough to reach the conclusion that video games are harmful. I've never met a sane (within reason) person to be harmed or harm others due to video games. My best friend had exams last week. He loves playing video games, yet he stopped playing them to be able to study. I didn't even speak to him all that much because I didn't want to distract him.

That's doing the experiment and seeing the final result.  Young men are hiding in their x boxes and play stations.

Those are some impressive contortionists if they can hide in something that has less free space than what is required to store a fetus.

their girls are getting pregnant and the boyz can not support them because of them video games. 

So girls don't play video games? Oh boy...
Girls play video games as well, you know. And they're often good at it too. I got my ass handed to me by my brother's girlfriend in Tekken 6 on more than one occasion. She can beat him too in that game.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2014, 11:08:45 AM by One Above All »
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken_rjcf/Lucifer/All In One.

Offline junebug72

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Re: Nowhere to Run and Hide
« Reply #47 on: July 01, 2014, 10:24:06 AM »
Build enough? Im not calling you ignorant, but you dont understand the enormity of that task.

Yes I do. 

Cool. 

How much fuel is required to lift 6 billion people out of earth orbit and move them to the closest other solar system?
How much metal is required to house 6 billion people for the journey - along with sufficient food and water?

With the greatest respect, I do not think you DO understand how enormous a task it would be to move the entire population of Earth to another planet.  Which means we are left with just two options[1].

1) Move nobody to another planet.
2) Move some people to another planet.

It seems you are saying that (1) is the more moral option - is that correct?
 1. Assuming that this planet is no longer viable.

I think in 2 million years we will know.  I can't remember the type of fuel they were using on that documentary but it was smart.  Little burst would take you quite far.

A large part of the ship is a green house, not metal. 

With the greatest respect I don't see how you, a scientific man, does not think scientist will figure it out.  I also see the whole wide world
working as 1.  Combining resources and knowledge. 

So no it's still disgusting to me that you don't even try to think of ways to save us all.  How eagerly you accept the death of billions. 

Just because I do not know exact figures does not mean I can not understand the extraordinary task this will be.  Come on now.

Good try though to discredit me.  I'll give you that.  I have truth on my side.  You can not defeat truth.

Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Offline One Above All

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Re: Nowhere to Run and Hide
« Reply #48 on: July 01, 2014, 10:26:45 AM »
Why did you add Anfauglir's quote to that post if you had no intention of responding to him?

Most likely a mistake, given that she answered it in the previous post.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

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Offline junebug72

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Re: Nowhere to Run and Hide
« Reply #49 on: July 01, 2014, 10:51:53 AM »
Why did you add Anfauglir's quote to that post if you had no intention of responding to him?

Obviously an over sight.  I don't pick out y'alls.  Trust me they are there.  It's petty.
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
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Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Nowhere to Run and Hide
« Reply #50 on: July 01, 2014, 11:14:09 AM »
Which means we are left with just two options[1].

1) Move nobody to another planet.
2) Move some people to another planet.

It seems you are saying that (1) is the more moral option - is that correct?
 1. Assuming that this planet is no longer viable.

So no it's still disgusting to me that you don't even try to think of ways to save us all.  How eagerly you accept the death of billions. 

So your answer is.....which?  1 or 2?  (Incidentally, did you see the footnote to my question?)

You've been spitting a lot of abuse at me recently, when all I've been trying to do is to try to understand what you mean when you post.  I do not doubt your intentions are good, but I find it difficult a lot of the time to actually understand the details of what you post.

Part of what I'm doing is for my benefit.  If I can understand what you are saying, then I can respond in an appropriate fashion.  I hate wasting time constructing responses that are wasted because the other person then says "no, that wasn't what I meant at all".

You clearly have a lot of ideas, that you feel very strongly about, and that you want to share.  I'm trying to show you that while passion and intent is all very well - and may carry your arguments in a face-to-face situation - when the ONLY communication is the words you are using, those words need to be precise.

If you'd prefer that I didn't engage with you any more, just say the word and I stop responding to you.  It would save me a lot of head and heartache, since all I seem to get these days when I try to understand you is abuse.
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline One Above All

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Re: Nowhere to Run and Hide
« Reply #51 on: July 01, 2014, 11:20:56 AM »
You've been spitting a lot of abuse at me recently, when all I've been trying to do is to try to understand what you mean when you post.
<snip>
If you'd prefer that I didn't engage with you any more, just say the word and I stop responding to you.  It would save me a lot of head and heartache, since all I seem to get these days when I try to understand you is abuse.

Exactly how I felt with the exchange between me and junebug72 in the Utopia thread. I asked her to define a simple term ("light", which was being used metaphorically, hence my trouble with understanding what she meant by it). She said it was the opposite of another term ("dark"). I asked her to define either term in a way that didn't rely on other ill-defined terms. She got pissed and said she wasn't "going to go there with [me]".
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken_rjcf/Lucifer/All In One.

Offline SevenPatch

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Re: Nowhere to Run and Hide
« Reply #52 on: July 01, 2014, 11:21:52 AM »
Idealism is a nice goal to strive for but at the end of the day, realism has to be acknowledged.  I don't see how being realistic is somehow immoral or disgusting.

In a scenario where the Earth will be destroyed, obviously we would want to save everyone, but realistically we can't and can only ever hope to save as many as we can.

Should we risk saving those that we can in a likely futile effort to save everyone?  All or none is fair?  So everyone should get a cupcake or no one should?  Throw the cupcakes in the trash cause there isn't enough for everyone.

The current state of society makes it impossible to save everyone.  It sucks, but that is the current reality.  We are limited as a species.  We are not gods.  Maybe in the future, our state will improve, that is what some scientists are working towards.

JB, if you think more should be done, write to your congressperson or senator.  I'd leave out the part about the Sun exploding.
"Shut him up! We have a lot invested in this ride - SHUT HIM UP! Look at my furrows of worry! Look at my big bank account, and my family! This just HAS to be real!" - Bill Hicks

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Nowhere to Run and Hide
« Reply #53 on: July 01, 2014, 11:25:27 AM »
You've been spitting a lot of abuse at me recently, when all I've been trying to do is to try to understand what you mean when you post.
<snip>
If you'd prefer that I didn't engage with you any more, just say the word and I stop responding to you.  It would save me a lot of head and heartache, since all I seem to get these days when I try to understand you is abuse.

Exactly how I felt with the exchange between me and junebug72 in the Utopia thread. I asked her to define a simple term ("light", which was being used metaphorically, hence my trouble with understanding what she meant by it). She said it was the opposite of another term ("dark"). I asked her to define either term in a way that didn't rely on other ill-defined terms. She got pissed and said she wasn't "going to go there with [me]".

Perhaps she and I have too much bad history.  I can see how (what I am trying to phrase as) questions for clarification could come across as combatative.  Maybe there isn't any point in my continuing to join in with threads that she is involved in - a shame, as she comes up with some interesting topics.
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline One Above All

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Re: Nowhere to Run and Hide
« Reply #54 on: July 01, 2014, 11:29:20 AM »
Perhaps she and I have too much bad history.  I can see how (what I am trying to phrase as) questions for clarification could come across as combatative.  Maybe there isn't any point in my continuing to join in with threads that she is involved in - a shame, as she comes up with some interesting topics.

The way I see it, it's her fault. Your questions don't seem the least bit aggressive. She just doesn't seem used to having her opinions questioned (possibly because she herself does not question them all that much).
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken_rjcf/Lucifer/All In One.

Offline junebug72

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Re: Nowhere to Run and Hide
« Reply #55 on: July 01, 2014, 12:00:09 PM »
It is not bullshit.

False.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/laura-st-john/8-ways-violent-games_b_3875846.html

Then your son needs to learn responsibility. Video games are not to blame; his parents are. Yes, I'm blaming you.

Not necessarily.  I had no warning label.  Plus we started with Mario, Pac Man , Galaga,  not Call of Duty.  Nothing realistic about them.

And I do blame myself.

I'm not over estimating myself.  Just giving you sound advice.   You keep treating me like I'm ignorant and it keeps embarrassing you.


I'm not treating you like you're ignorant. You are ignorant. As I've said, everyone is ignorant, myself included. However, I am less ignorant than you. I'd bet my life on that.

I'd bet my life you are not.  Yes you are.  It's embarrassing you not me.

It's precious time wasted that you can't get back.


Depends on your definition of "waste". If you mean "used" or "spent", then everything is time wasted. If you mean mismanaged, you still don't have anything to base your point on. Everyone mismanages their time.
Also, time can't be returned to us, regardless. Your point is moot.

I guess it's something you can't understand until you get older. 

My point is not moot.  Your's is.  There are plenty of psychologist that agree with me.  Not so many for you.


We only have 4 mins to save the world.

I'm doing my part. Are you?

Sure am.

I see it as choosing virtual reality over actual reality.


I see it as doing something because I like.

Liking violence concerns me very much.

That's 25 years of experience.


I highly doubt that. Or, at the very least, I doubt you are mentally sound enough to reach the conclusion that video games are harmful. I've never met a sane (within reason) person to be harmed or harm others due to video games. My best friend had exams last week. He loves playing video games, yet he stopped playing them to be able to study. I didn't even speak to him all that much because I didn't want to distract him.

Not mentally sound enough.  QUIT INSULTING ME.   

That's doing the experiment and seeing the final result.  Young men are hiding in their x boxes and play stations.


Those are some impressive contortionists if they can hide in something that has less free space than what is required to store a fetus.

An author should know when someone is speaking metaphorically.

their girls are getting pregnant and the boyz can not support them because of them video games. 


So girls don't play video games? Oh boy...
Girls play video games as well, you know. And they're often good at it too. I got my ass handed to me by my brother's girlfriend in Tekken 6 on more than one occasion. She can beat him too in that game.

I have beat Mario I don't know how many times.  I got out of video games when they got violent.  My son's ex slaughtered him on Rock Band.   I just don't think girlz are as bad as the boyz. 
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Offline junebug72

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Re: Nowhere to Run and Hide
« Reply #56 on: July 01, 2014, 12:08:28 PM »
Which means we are left with just two options[1].

1) Move nobody to another planet.
2) Move some people to another planet.

It seems you are saying that (1) is the more moral option - is that correct?
 1. Assuming that this planet is no longer viable.

So no it's still disgusting to me that you don't even try to think of ways to save us all.  How eagerly you accept the death of billions. 

So your answer is.....which?  1 or 2?  (Incidentally, did you see the footnote to my question?)

You've been spitting a lot of abuse at me recently, when all I've been trying to do is to try to understand what you mean when you post.  I do not doubt your intentions are good, but I find it difficult a lot of the time to actually understand the details of what you post.

Part of what I'm doing is for my benefit.  If I can understand what you are saying, then I can respond in an appropriate fashion.  I hate wasting time constructing responses that are wasted because the other person then says "no, that wasn't what I meant at all".

You clearly have a lot of ideas, that you feel very strongly about, and that you want to share.  I'm trying to show you that while passion and intent is all very well - and may carry your arguments in a face-to-face situation - when the ONLY communication is the words you are using, those words need to be precise.

If you'd prefer that I didn't engage with you any more, just say the word and I stop responding to you.  It would save me a lot of head and heartache, since all I seem to get these days when I try to understand you is abuse.

Please define abuse. 

I am quite sure you are giving me a hard time and just don't like me pointing it out.  I am precise with my words.  You are the one that tries to twist them into meaning something else.

You're still trying to discredit me instead of comprehending my impeccable words.  I'm saying them as simple as I can. 

What don't you understand about leaving people behind being morally reprehensible?  No better than Religious stuff.

You can not defeat truth Anfauglir.  I would never wish for you to go away.
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Offline One Above All

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Re: Nowhere to Run and Hide
« Reply #57 on: July 01, 2014, 12:12:34 PM »
junebug72, please fix the quotes in your reply to me.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken_rjcf/Lucifer/All In One.