Author Topic: Please cross The Pond, please cross The Pond...  (Read 7997 times)

wow and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline One Above All

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 11039
  • Darwins +285/-37
  • Supreme ruler of the multiverse; All In One
Re: Please cross The Pond, please cross The Pond...
« Reply #377 on: August 03, 2014, 12:24:04 PM »
But you can't form an experiment with a single cell with no genetic information for any species, and watch it gain human DNA, or fish DNA, or frog DNA or horse DNA.

I have heard people say "a single cell becomes a human in 9 months" but this misses the point. This cell contains human DNA and all the information necessary to form a human being. The cells of billions of years ago did not possess this human DNA/information.

...You do realize that every single species on the planet is genetically related, right? Oh, who am I kidding. I know you don't. You don't know anything about evolution, other than a few loosely related terms and the strawman creationists use in a futile attempt to protect their false beliefs.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken_rjcf/Lucifer/All In One.

Offline skeptic54768

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 2618
  • Darwins +52/-430
  • Gender: Male
  • Christianity is the most beautiful religion.
  • User is on moderator watch listWatched
Re: Please cross The Pond, please cross The Pond...
« Reply #378 on: August 03, 2014, 12:28:09 PM »
But you can't form an experiment with a single cell with no genetic information for any species, and watch it gain human DNA, or fish DNA, or frog DNA or horse DNA.

I have heard people say "a single cell becomes a human in 9 months" but this misses the point. This cell contains human DNA and all the information necessary to form a human being. The cells of billions of years ago did not possess this human DNA/information.

...You do realize that every single species on the planet is genetically related, right? Oh, who am I kidding. I know you don't. You don't know anything about evolution, other than a few loosely related terms and the strawman creationists use in a futile attempt to protect their false beliefs.

I do understand that we are all related, which is what we would expect if we all were designed by a common designer.

I just do not understand how a single cell on the ground can give birth to all the genetic diversity we see today.

Plus, most creatures are not connected to the Earth. Trees and plants are connected to the Earth but humans, horses, fish, are not connected to the Earth. We can jump and be off the ground. So, how did we evolve from the Earth if we aren't even connected to the Earth? This is a point I don't believe I ever seen even a creationist bring up before.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline Foxy Freedom

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1434
  • Darwins +97/-12
  • Why is it so difficult to say you don't know?
    • Foxy Freedom on Doctor Who
Re: Please cross The Pond, please cross The Pond...
« Reply #379 on: August 03, 2014, 01:02:07 PM »
I do understand that we are all related, which is what we would expect if we all were designed by a common designer.

I just do not understand how a single cell on the ground can give birth to all the genetic diversity we see today.

Plus, most creatures are not connected to the Earth. Trees and plants are connected to the Earth but humans, horses, fish, are not connected to the Earth. We can jump and be off the ground. So, how did we evolve from the Earth if we aren't even connected to the Earth? This is a point I don't believe I ever seen even a creationist bring up before.

Animals did not evolve from the earth, they evolved from other animals, back to the single cell.

The single cell did not itself give birth to genetic diversity. What happened was that single celled animals joined together to live together and then evolve together. Sponges are a bit like that. You can take a sponge and push it though a sieve so that all the individual cells spit up. Then all the cells slowly join up again on the other side of the sieve.

You probably think that you are a single being, but you are not, you are made up of many different original animals. For example the mitochondria in your blood were originally a different animal living symbiotically with your earliest ancestors in the oceans. Evolution is not just about one animal changing into another, it is also about merging early on, and interbreeding.
Neither Foxy Freedom nor any associates can be reached via WWGHA. Their official antitheist website is http://the6antitheist6guide6.blogspot.co.uk

The 2nd edition of the free ebook Devil or Delusion ? The danger of Christianity to Democracy Freedom and Science.       http://t.co/2d1KcJ9V

Offline Ron Jeremy

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 523
  • Darwins +60/-2
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: Please cross The Pond, please cross The Pond...
« Reply #380 on: August 03, 2014, 01:05:23 PM »
Plus, most creatures are not connected to the Earth. Trees and plants are connected to the Earth but humans, horses, fish, are not connected to the Earth. We can jump and be off the ground.

Eh?!?!? Explain this Skep!
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - An example of a clearly demonstrably false biblical 'prophesy'.

The biblical myth of a 6000 year old Earth is proven false by the Gaia satellite directly measuring star age.

Online Jag

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1783
  • Darwins +191/-7
  • Gender: Female
  • Official WWGHA Harpy, Ex-rosary squad
Re: Please cross The Pond, please cross The Pond...
« Reply #381 on: August 03, 2014, 01:25:35 PM »
it appears to not be as "rock solid proof" as you guys think.

In what way? Have you made enough sense of your assignment to educate yourself about evolution that you believe you are ready to make such a claim? If so, demonstrate it rather than just posting a link and saying "nuh-uh".

I'm still waiting for you to address this post directly skep. You've quoted it several time but have not yet actually responded to it. You've posted several more times in this thread since my last reminder.
"It's hard to, but I'm starting to believe some of you actually believe these things.  That is completely beyond my ability to understand if that is really the case, but things never cease to amaze me."

Offline jaimehlers

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 4933
  • Darwins +563/-17
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: Please cross The Pond, please cross The Pond...
« Reply #382 on: August 03, 2014, 02:04:25 PM »
Related to the post immediately before the one I linked, skeptic, this isn't a matter of creationists having gut feelings that evolution is false and 'evolutionists' having gut feelings that it is true.  Or rather, while it certainly might be true that creationists base their conclusions on their gut feelings, evolutionary scientists (along with other people, like myself, who have studied the subject in some depth) most certainly do not.  That's the equivalent of arguing that geologists base their conclusions on gut feelings.  Or physicists.  Or astronomers.  Or other fields of science, for that matter.  The reason you're calling out evolutionary scientists is because their conclusions directly contradict young earth creationism, and thus young earth creationists, who rely on their gut feelings on the matter, have to make it seem that evolutionary biology works the same way.

That is, quite simply, a false comparison.  Imagine if astrologers took on astronomers with the same logic - they believe strongly that the stars a person was born under determine their future, and so they try to argue that astronomy isn't a science, but instead, an equally strong belief, and go from there to saying that astrology should be given equal time in the science classroom to astronomy.  It would be more than a little bit ridiculous to take them seriously on that, and the same holds true for creationists who do the same thing with evolutionary theory. 

Excellent post. I can see how dedicated you are to this subject.

I am curious about the evolutionary gap you mention, though. How do you know it will be explained by evolution? isn't that a presupposition that it is evolution?
No, it isn't.  Or rather, if it is a presupposition, it is the same sort of "presupposition" that a person who doesn't know much about computers has when they press the power button on a computer and "presuppose" that it will turn on.  There is no guarantee that a specific evolutionary 'gap' will ever be filled, but even if it wasn't, that wouldn't make evoutionary theory untrue, and it certainly wouldn't make creationism true.

Quote from: skeptic54768
Also, I have looked at the horse fossils but how do they know for sure they evolved? What if they were just another species that existed within the original kind? We know horses can form new horse species but they will never be anything other than a horse. We know speciation exists on the species level within the original kind, but we never saw speciation on the original kind level.
How do I know they evolved?  Because we don't see the design/creation of organisms today.  Nobody has ever observed it, for that matter.  The only thing that even makes this claim that it happened is an apocryphal book which post-dated this supposed design/creation, and which only makes the claim in context of a creation myth which is no more believable

Quote from: skeptic54768
if you create a simulated world with nothing but horses, then you will only get different kinds of horse species to evolve. You will never see a bird or a kangaroo one day.

if you create a simulated world with nothing but birds, you will never get horses, sharks, etc etc etc. Think of any creature and imagine making a simulated world. You will never get another kind of animal other than the one you started with.
Actually, that's untrue.  What is true that anything you get as a result of evolution will be genetically related to the original creatures, but it is a misnomer to say that if you start with a horse, you will never have anything but different kinds of horses.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2010/05/100513-science-evolution-darwin-single-ancestor/ - this is exactly the point that I'm trying to make.  Not only that, but it shows exactly why "created kinds" doesn't make sense.  It takes the three different domains of life (bacteria, bacteria-like Archaea, and eukaryotes), and calculates the odds of the genetic similarities between them coming from them being created kinds versus common descent.  The probability that they would have evolved such similar DNA sequences if they were different "created kinds" is literally astronomical - 1 in 102680.

EDIT:  The odds of separate "created kinds" converging the way they do genetically makes the difference between the Planck length (around 10-35) and the entire universe (around 1027) seem gigantic by comparison.

Quote from: skeptic54768
That is the simplest way to explain why evolution just simply can't happen the way they say it does.
Sorry to say, but you didn't actually show that.  You showed that you're still assuming that an organism has built-in limiters which prevent it from changing significantly, an assumption which is not backed up by anything in science, to the best of my knowledge.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2014, 02:13:45 PM by jaimehlers »

Offline ParkingPlaces

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 6456
  • Darwins +768/-6
  • Gender: Male
  • Hide and Seek World Champion since 1958!
Re: Please cross The Pond, please cross The Pond...
« Reply #383 on: August 03, 2014, 02:40:18 PM »
I've never seen any explanation as to how a single cell can give rise to all the genetic information to get all these species. That would be one heck of a magic cell. Single cells still exist. They have always been cells. They never changed into anything else.

Which means that you haven't passed a biology class since the second grade. And no, the process isn't magic. Its pretty amazing, but not magic.

Quote
What is wrong with my example? Create a simulated world and pick any creature of your choice. How confident are you that completely different animals and species will evolve from that ONE kind of creature?

Simulated worlds do it, and the real world did it. Starting with any given creature, my confidence level would be low, because most critters don't survive or benefit when they mutate. But a small percentage do. And if you give life enough time, it will modify itself over and over and over again.

I know you don't like this, I know you have to think it impossible for your beliefs to work. But that's no way to live; lying to yourself daily in order to maintain an artificial environment, free of intellectual pursuit and full to the brim with your own BS. Maintaining a high level of voluntary ignorance for any reason is sad. Doing if for religion multiplies the harm done. To yourself and others. Learn to think. Its painless and it makes your head more useful.
Not everyone is entitled to their own opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

Offline Ron Jeremy

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 523
  • Darwins +60/-2
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: Please cross The Pond, please cross The Pond...
« Reply #384 on: August 03, 2014, 04:57:00 PM »
Create a simulated world and pick any creature of your choice. How confident are you that completely different animals and species will evolve from that ONE kind of creature?

You mean like this actual experiment that is demonstrating evolution?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E._coli_long-term_evolution_experiment
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - An example of a clearly demonstrably false biblical 'prophesy'.

The biblical myth of a 6000 year old Earth is proven false by the Gaia satellite directly measuring star age.

Offline Ron Jeremy

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 523
  • Darwins +60/-2
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: Please cross The Pond, please cross The Pond...
« Reply #385 on: August 03, 2014, 05:02:13 PM »
Can I assume you won't count the above example Skep because it doesn't show an elephant turning into a cherry tree?
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - An example of a clearly demonstrably false biblical 'prophesy'.

The biblical myth of a 6000 year old Earth is proven false by the Gaia satellite directly measuring star age.

Offline One Above All

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 11039
  • Darwins +285/-37
  • Supreme ruler of the multiverse; All In One
Re: Please cross The Pond, please cross The Pond...
« Reply #386 on: August 03, 2014, 05:05:13 PM »
Can I assume you won't count the above example Skep because it doesn't show an elephant turning into a cherry tree?

Nah; it's because that's "micro evolution", man!! It's still a bacteria, so no "macro evolution", as "evolutionists" claim!!
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken_rjcf/Lucifer/All In One.

Offline One Above All

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 11039
  • Darwins +285/-37
  • Supreme ruler of the multiverse; All In One
Re: Please cross The Pond, please cross The Pond...
« Reply #387 on: August 03, 2014, 07:10:39 PM »
Plus, most creatures are not connected to the Earth. Trees and plants are connected to the Earth but humans, horses, fish, are not connected to the Earth. We can jump and be off the ground. So, how did we evolve from the Earth if we aren't even connected to the Earth? This is a point I don't believe I ever seen even a creationist bring up before.

Didn't YHWH make man from clay? You know, stuff that comes from the Earth? So, how did we come from the Earth if we aren't even connected to the Earth?

In addition, what exactly would be proof of evolution for you?
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken_rjcf/Lucifer/All In One.

Offline skeptic54768

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 2618
  • Darwins +52/-430
  • Gender: Male
  • Christianity is the most beautiful religion.
  • User is on moderator watch listWatched
Re: Please cross The Pond, please cross The Pond...
« Reply #388 on: August 03, 2014, 07:45:28 PM »
Nah; it's because that's "micro evolution", man!! It's still a bacteria, so no "macro evolution", as "evolutionists" claim!!

That has been the point all along.

Which creature evolved from bacteria according to evolution?
The creature that evolved from bacteria should evolve from bacteria in lab experiments, then.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline skeptic54768

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 2618
  • Darwins +52/-430
  • Gender: Male
  • Christianity is the most beautiful religion.
  • User is on moderator watch listWatched
Re: Please cross The Pond, please cross The Pond...
« Reply #389 on: August 03, 2014, 07:47:18 PM »
I've never seen any explanation as to how a single cell can give rise to all the genetic information to get all these species. That would be one heck of a magic cell. Single cells still exist. They have always been cells. They never changed into anything else.

Which means that you haven't passed a biology class since the second grade. And no, the process isn't magic. Its pretty amazing, but not magic.

Quote
What is wrong with my example? Create a simulated world and pick any creature of your choice. How confident are you that completely different animals and species will evolve from that ONE kind of creature?

Simulated worlds do it, and the real world did it. Starting with any given creature, my confidence level would be low, because most critters don't survive or benefit when they mutate. But a small percentage do. And if you give life enough time, it will modify itself over and over and over again.

I know you don't like this, I know you have to think it impossible for your beliefs to work. But that's no way to live; lying to yourself daily in order to maintain an artificial environment, free of intellectual pursuit and full to the brim with your own BS. Maintaining a high level of voluntary ignorance for any reason is sad. Doing if for religion multiplies the harm done. To yourself and others. Learn to think. Its painless and it makes your head more useful.

Is it possible that a brand new species will evolve from humans? if so, what do you think it might be and how might that happen?

Or will humans be like crocodiles and remain humans for millions of years?
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline skeptic54768

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 2618
  • Darwins +52/-430
  • Gender: Male
  • Christianity is the most beautiful religion.
  • User is on moderator watch listWatched
Re: Please cross The Pond, please cross The Pond...
« Reply #390 on: August 03, 2014, 07:51:48 PM »
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2010/05/100513-science-evolution-darwin-single-ancestor/ - this is exactly the point that I'm trying to make.  Not only that, but it shows exactly why "created kinds" doesn't make sense.  It takes the three different domains of life (bacteria, bacteria-like Archaea, and eukaryotes), and calculates the odds of the genetic similarities between them coming from them being created kinds versus common descent.  The probability that they would have evolved such similar DNA sequences if they were different "created kinds" is literally astronomical - 1 in 102680.
EDIT:  The odds of separate "created kinds" converging the way they do genetically makes the difference between the Planck length (around 10-35) and the entire universe (around 1027) seem gigantic by comparison.

I'm not sure if the "odds argument" is the best one to use. For example, the odds of life forming on its own have been calculated to be a number of a much higher magnitude than the one you posted here. yet, atheists believe it happened on its own.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline atheola

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1300
  • Darwins +28/-4
  • Gender: Male
  • Hospitals suck past an hour.
Re: Please cross The Pond, please cross The Pond...
« Reply #391 on: August 03, 2014, 07:54:36 PM »
We've already mutated and evolved to different races, heights, freckles, hair charactaristics, buck teeth, goofy looking families, midgets, huge people, etc.. Ted Cruz.. OK..we've devolved I guess. 
You better believe it's not butter or you'll burn in hell forever and EVER!
Get on your knees right now and thank GOD for not being real!

Offline Defiance

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 666
  • Darwins +26/-2
  • Gender: Male
  • Can't be mad at something that doesn't exist.
Re: Please cross The Pond, please cross The Pond...
« Reply #392 on: August 03, 2014, 07:58:48 PM »
Nah; it's because that's "micro evolution", man!! It's still a bacteria, so no "macro evolution", as "evolutionists" claim!!

That has been the point all along.

Which creature evolved from bacteria according to evolution?
The creature that evolved from bacteria should evolve from bacteria in lab experiments, then.
Sure, give it time. It will. Just like how it happened in nature.
"God is just and fair"
*God kills 2.5 million of people he KNEW would turn out like this in the flood*
*Humanity turns bad again, when God knew it would*
We should feel guilty for this.

Offline skeptic54768

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 2618
  • Darwins +52/-430
  • Gender: Male
  • Christianity is the most beautiful religion.
  • User is on moderator watch listWatched
Re: Please cross The Pond, please cross The Pond...
« Reply #393 on: August 03, 2014, 07:59:47 PM »
In addition, what exactly would be proof of evolution for you?

It would be hard to say.

All the dating methods were made up by humans so there's no way we can know for sure if they are accurate.

The strata of so-called evolutionary layers does not exist anywhere except textbooks.

 index fossils are used to date other fossils, which seems sloppy in my opinion.

There's also fossils that extend through millions of years worth of geological strata. So, how old is that fossil?

Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline skeptic54768

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 2618
  • Darwins +52/-430
  • Gender: Male
  • Christianity is the most beautiful religion.
  • User is on moderator watch listWatched
Re: Please cross The Pond, please cross The Pond...
« Reply #394 on: August 03, 2014, 08:00:56 PM »
We've already mutated and evolved to different races, heights, freckles, hair charactaristics, buck teeth, goofy looking families, midgets, huge people, etc.. Ted Cruz.. OK..we've devolved I guess.

We can all breed with each other though.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline skeptic54768

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 2618
  • Darwins +52/-430
  • Gender: Male
  • Christianity is the most beautiful religion.
  • User is on moderator watch listWatched
Re: Please cross The Pond, please cross The Pond...
« Reply #395 on: August 03, 2014, 08:04:43 PM »
Sure, give it time. It will. Just like how it happened in nature.

Will a gnat eventually evolve from the bacteria?
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline skeptic54768

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 2618
  • Darwins +52/-430
  • Gender: Male
  • Christianity is the most beautiful religion.
  • User is on moderator watch listWatched
Re: Please cross The Pond, please cross The Pond...
« Reply #396 on: August 03, 2014, 08:12:12 PM »
it is very confusing when you guys say things like "Everything evolved from a single cell" and then say "bats will never evolve from sharks" or "flys will never evolve from rats."

At some point, things have to break off if you believe in evolution. So, it's very confusing.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline Foxy Freedom

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1434
  • Darwins +97/-12
  • Why is it so difficult to say you don't know?
    • Foxy Freedom on Doctor Who
Re: Please cross The Pond, please cross The Pond...
« Reply #397 on: August 03, 2014, 08:15:41 PM »
We've already mutated and evolved to different races, heights, freckles, hair charactaristics, buck teeth, goofy looking families, midgets, huge people, etc.. Ted Cruz.. OK..we've devolved I guess.

We can all breed with each other though.

That is right and you also have the DNA of other types of humans who all interbred with other apes.
Neither Foxy Freedom nor any associates can be reached via WWGHA. Their official antitheist website is http://the6antitheist6guide6.blogspot.co.uk

The 2nd edition of the free ebook Devil or Delusion ? The danger of Christianity to Democracy Freedom and Science.       http://t.co/2d1KcJ9V

Offline Foxy Freedom

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1434
  • Darwins +97/-12
  • Why is it so difficult to say you don't know?
    • Foxy Freedom on Doctor Who
Re: Please cross The Pond, please cross The Pond...
« Reply #398 on: August 03, 2014, 08:20:26 PM »
it is very confusing when you guys say things like "Everything evolved from a single cell" and then say "bats will never evolve from sharks" or "flys will never evolve from rats."

At some point, things have to break off if you believe in evolution. So, it's very confusing.

It is not difficult to think about. If an animal is complex that means it has a lot of baggage in its DNA and the line of its journey in evolution is mapped out in more detail.
Neither Foxy Freedom nor any associates can be reached via WWGHA. Their official antitheist website is http://the6antitheist6guide6.blogspot.co.uk

The 2nd edition of the free ebook Devil or Delusion ? The danger of Christianity to Democracy Freedom and Science.       http://t.co/2d1KcJ9V

Offline Chronos

  • Global Moderator
  • ******
  • Posts: 2403
  • Darwins +130/-6
  • Gender: Male
  • Born without religion
    • Marking Time
Re: Please cross The Pond, please cross The Pond...
« Reply #399 on: August 03, 2014, 08:20:34 PM »
The UK has banned creationism as science in all public schools

http://io9.com/teaching-creationism-as-science-now-banned-in-all-uk-pu-1592549647

As opposed to Missouri, USA...they're proposing a bill to "alert parents when evolution is taught," giving parents the option to pull the kid from class.  Oy.

http://io9.com/missouri-bill-would-have-parents-alerted-when-evolution-1526816104




John 14:2 :: In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

Offline Chronos

  • Global Moderator
  • ******
  • Posts: 2403
  • Darwins +130/-6
  • Gender: Male
  • Born without religion
    • Marking Time
Re: Please cross The Pond, please cross The Pond...
« Reply #400 on: August 03, 2014, 08:22:26 PM »
I thought the US Supreme Court deemed creationism/'creation science' pure religious BS.  I don't understand why it still gets traction here in the colonies.

Ultimately educational issues are left to the individual states, but funding is not. If federal funding is tied to factual ... well, facts ... federal funding will be lost but with the likes of Ted Cruz in office, the loss of that funding aint' gonna happen anytime soon.
John 14:2 :: In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

Offline jaimehlers

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 4933
  • Darwins +563/-17
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: Please cross The Pond, please cross The Pond...
« Reply #401 on: August 03, 2014, 08:26:35 PM »
I'm not sure if the "odds argument" is the best one to use. For example, the odds of life forming on its own have been calculated to be a number of a much higher magnitude than the one you posted here. yet, atheists believe it happened on its own.
The 'odds' that creationists like to use are largely arbitrary and based on assumptions which are questionable, at best.  By comparison, the odds used in the article I linked were done using a statistical analysis (by someone who understands how to use statistics) and thus are much more believable.

It isn't that I think that life formed on its own despite the ludicrously small odds cited by some creationists, it's that I don't think the creationists can quantify the odds well enough to justify stating that they are so small.

Offline jaimehlers

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 4933
  • Darwins +563/-17
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: Please cross The Pond, please cross The Pond...
« Reply #402 on: August 03, 2014, 08:33:18 PM »
Which creature evolved from bacteria according to evolution?
The creature that evolved from bacteria should evolve from bacteria in lab experiments, then.
I think you're misunderstanding a bit.  Evolution is largely a random process.  What that means is that an organism which evolves from bacteria won't necessarily ever evolve from bacteria again.  Furthermore, there's no particular guarantee that bacteria would evolve into multicellular life; it took more than two billion years for it to happen in the first place.

Sure, if you're willing to sit around and wait for a billion years, you might see it happen again.  But I don't think any human could possibly be so patient.

Online Jag

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1783
  • Darwins +191/-7
  • Gender: Female
  • Official WWGHA Harpy, Ex-rosary squad
Re: Please cross The Pond, please cross The Pond...
« Reply #403 on: August 03, 2014, 09:45:42 PM »
it appears to not be as "rock solid proof" as you guys think.

In what way? Have you made enough sense of your assignment to educate yourself about evolution that you believe you are ready to make such a claim? If so, demonstrate it rather than just posting a link and saying "nuh-uh".

I'm still waiting for you to address this post directly skep. You've quoted it several time but have not yet actually responded to it. You've posted several more times in this thread since my last reminder.
"It's hard to, but I'm starting to believe some of you actually believe these things.  That is completely beyond my ability to understand if that is really the case, but things never cease to amaze me."

Offline ParkingPlaces

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 6456
  • Darwins +768/-6
  • Gender: Male
  • Hide and Seek World Champion since 1958!
Re: Please cross The Pond, please cross The Pond...
« Reply #404 on: August 04, 2014, 12:13:11 AM »
Is it possible that a brand new species will evolve from humans? if so, what do you think it might be and how might that happen?

Not very likely. But only because we probably won't survive long enough to evolve much. We're killing ourselves too fast. If perchance some folks survive for a long time, then yes, we will evolve. Some are already being born without an appendix and such. So we're slowly changing. And at that point where we can no longer mate with homo sapiens, then we'll be a new species. In a half a million years or so.

Quote
Or will humans be like crocodiles and remain humans for millions of years?

You know, evolution isn't a requirement. In the case of the crocs, they are so well suited for their environment that there has been little pressure to evolve. They are so well suited for where they live that even we humans have failed to causes even one species of croc to go extinct. That means they've got things pretty well figured out, species wise.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. It applies to nature as well. But if it is important to you to dwell on one species that has changed little so that you can ignore all the other species that have clearly evolved over the last few million years, you go ahead. That way you won't have to have one of those "inquiring mind" thingies in your head.
Not everyone is entitled to their own opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

Offline skeptic54768

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 2618
  • Darwins +52/-430
  • Gender: Male
  • Christianity is the most beautiful religion.
  • User is on moderator watch listWatched
Re: Please cross The Pond, please cross The Pond...
« Reply #405 on: August 04, 2014, 01:21:53 AM »
You know, evolution isn't a requirement. In the case of the crocs, they are so well suited for their environment that there has been little pressure to evolve. They are so well suited for where they live that even we humans have failed to causes even one species of croc to go extinct. That means they've got things pretty well figured out, species wise.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. It applies to nature as well. But if it is important to you to dwell on one species that has changed little so that you can ignore all the other species that have clearly evolved over the last few million years, you go ahead. That way you won't have to have one of those "inquiring mind" thingies in your head.

What type of change in the environment would cause a species to go extinct vs. evolving to better fit the environment?
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)