Author Topic: What is God's purpose?  (Read 2397 times)

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Offline Airyaman

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Re: What is God's purpose?
« Reply #145 on: June 30, 2014, 03:57:32 PM »
Born of a virgin, so no earthly father to determine tribe. Failed.

Joseph's adoption of him determines his tribe just like with any other adoption.

Got anything to back that up?

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Mistranslation aside, can you show how Isaiah 7 is messianic?

Who determines if it's a mistranslation?

I've covered this on the other site we frequent. Short version: "almah" (young woman) was used only once by the writer of Isaiah, and "bethulah" was used 4 times. Each of those 4 times, it was properly referred to as "virgin". Why would the writer use "bethulah" four times, and "almah" only once if they were the same word? Furthermore, if you pull the actual Hebrew from the verses in question and put them into Google's translation tool, "almah" is maiden and "bethulah" is virgin.

You didn't answer the question though. How is Isa 7 messianic?

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Can you demonstrate how Psalm 2 is messianic?

Because this is what occured at Christ's baptism.

Does not make the passage messianic. We call that "circular reasoning".

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Isa 53:1 says nothing about not being believed in. It asks a question that is not answered.

That's because it's a rhetorical question.

What? That makes no sense.

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Two asses in Matthew's version. Woah, he rode a donkey, what a prophecy!

So then this one should just be dismissed?  Gotcha.

No. After all, its really all you have. I'd hate to know I dedicated my life to a prophecy I could fulfill myself.

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What about Psa 41 is messianic?

Many of the Psalms are messianic becaese David was a pattern for the messiah.

Does not answer the question.

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What about Zec 11 is messianic? It rather looks anti-messianic in flavor if anything.

The messiah comes to both punish and reward.  Zechariah was being used as a messianic pattern.

That's a bold statement. Got anything to back it up with?

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In Isa 53:7 it says he didn't open his mouth. Sorry, but Jesus did indeed speak during his trial(s). Failed.

He did not reply to the accusations setting a pattern for his disciples to follow.

Not what the verse said. It said he didn't open his mouth, and he did. So failed prophecy.

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What part of Psa 22 is messianic?

All of it.

How so?

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What part of Psa 34 is messianic

All of it.

How so?

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Wrong.

Isa 53:9  And they made his grave with the wicked and with a rich man in his death, although he had done no violence, and there was no deceit in his mouth.

This is backwards from the Jesus story. In Isa 53:9, the servant would be buried with the wicked and die with the rich. Failed.

He would make his grave with the wicked and with a rich man.  How is that wrong?

Jesus died with thieves (wicked) and was buried in a rich man's tomb. Again, backwards.

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What part of Psa 16 is messianic?

All of it.

How so?

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What part of Psa 110 is messianic?

All of it.

How so?
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Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: What is God's purpose?
« Reply #146 on: June 30, 2014, 04:15:33 PM »
Is,"because I say so" a reasonable answer? It is about all your gonna get from him,good luck.
There's no right there's no wrong,there's just popular opinion (Brad Pitt as Jeffery Goines in 12 monkeys)

Offline Gnu Ordure

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Re: What is God's purpose?
« Reply #147 on: June 30, 2014, 04:17:47 PM »
My bolding:
I assume that the teacher is God, the rebellious student is Satan, the problem is 'how to run a world', and the other students are the angels and Adam & Eve. OK?

Right, but it has extended beyond only Adam and Eve.  Many of their descendants have joined the rebellion also.

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The first problem is that the authors fail to inform us whether his problem has more than one solution. For example, if the problem was to establish the truth of Pythagoras' theorem, there are over 300 ways of proving it, all of them equally effective - though if one were to equate a better solution as being a simpler solution, some could be considered better than others.

This is a crucial point, because it means that it's possible for both the student and the teacher to be right.

Okay.

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I don't see why a student expressing an opinion and suggesting an alternative solution should be characterized as 'rebellious'

Because of the next sentence you quoted.  The student actually says the teacher is wrong, thereby calling the teacher a liar.

JWB, what strikes me about the JW authors' reading of Genesis is that they consistently make unfounded assumptions about the narrative in order to make Satan (and A&E) look as bad as possible. That's a good example above; the fact is that it's possible for someone to be wrong without being a liar. Likewise one can accuse someone of being wrong without implying that they're lying - after all, they may be merely mistaken.

Similarly, the authors interpret A&E's decision to eat the forbidden fruit as a claim that they totally rebel against God and that they can run the world better than him. That interpretation isn't supported by the Genesis text. And Satan's motives in tempting Eve are also obscure; and where exactly does he claim to be able to run the world better than God?

Anyway, you asked what I thought of the authors' illustration; in my opinion it's a very poor analogy to Eden, as well as being internally illogical, and therefore rather useless as a rhetorical device.

A couple of points; you said:
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In which case, the teacher should immediately ask the student to back up his claim and demonstrate the fault in the teacher's solution. Credit to the student if he can do it; if he can't, hopefully he will learn from his error. Claims of alternative solutions simply aren't relevant at this point.

But for some reason, the teacher fails respond in this fashion.

This is exactly what Jehovah has done.  He has allowed the student and those that agree to demonstrate their ability to rule.
The teacher/God didn't ask the student/Satan to explain why the teacher/God was wrong. Whether or not the student/Satan can rule is irrelevant to that question.

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Fine; the teacher (while failing to ask the student to back up his claim that he was wrong) allows the student to present his solution
You are contradicting yourself.  By allowing the student to present his solution he is given opportunity to back up his claim.
No, it doesn't. Providing an alternative solution doesn't prove that God was wrong.

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Except, back in the real world, it doesn't work out like that, does it? In the real world, the teacher's decision to let the student present his solution permits a whole heap of hurt and suffering. Hello, Auschwitz. Hello, Spanish Inquisition. Hello, bubonic plague. Hello, psychopathic child-rapists.
Yes this is very true.
Right. Therefore the teacher is responsible for all that suffering. He allows it to happen in order to win his argument with Satan.

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And of course, from Satan's point of view, the world is just how he wants it to be. He loves all that torture and stuff. So what exactly is God proving by letting him rule the world?
No not quite.  Satan's goal is actually to succeed in proving God wrong, but despite his best efforts he has not.
For the third time, Satan can't prove God wrong by running the world in an alternative fashion.

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Right. So God is responsible for our hellish world. He is responsible for our suffering. He could make it stop any time he likes, yet it lets it go on and on and on... The authors address the question:
He has allowed men to provide their own rulers which is their desire.
Would you let infants play with matches merely because it was their desire? In order to teach them a lesson when they end up with third-degree burns?

That wouldn't be good teaching, would it? But that's what God did.

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Despite his best efforts prophecy continues to be fulfilled and he is filled with anger. Prophetically this anger has been demonstrated beginning with two World Wars and the plagues that accompanied them.  And it has all been in a effort to stamp out the worship of God.
What is Satan angry about? God gave him the world to play with, and he's playing with it. And he's having a lot of fun, inciting war and famine and disease, because he loves all that stuff.

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Both of those wars were among Christian nations, with brothers and sisters killing each other in fulfillment of prophecy.  Christendom is still reeling from the effects of these wars.
The last seventy years have been the most peaceful in the history of mankind. I appreciate that that fact doesn't fit your doomsday scenario, but it's still true.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2014, 04:25:24 PM by Gnu Ordure »

Online Azdgari

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Re: What is God's purpose?
« Reply #148 on: June 30, 2014, 06:58:00 PM »
How old were you during this?  I ask because you've made some mistakes in relaying what Witnesses teach.  There's nothing disallowing modern music or modern clothing.  Birthday celebrations are only discouraged.  Wedding anniversaries are celebrated.

Is your father still living?

What which Witnesses teach?  Do you have reason to believe that all teach the same things?

Yes.  It is a fact.

Interesting.  You claim that every single Jehova's Witness always teaches precisely the same things.  None of them even jus slip up and inadvertently teach something different.

How is this verified?
I have not encountered any mechanical malfunctioning in my spirit.  It works every single time I need it to.

Offline jdawg70

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Re: What is God's purpose?
« Reply #149 on: June 30, 2014, 07:06:41 PM »
Interesting.  You claim that every single Jehova's Witness always teaches precisely the same things.  None of them even jus slip up and inadvertently teach something different.

How is this verified?

I met a Scotsman once, but he turned out to not be one.  Another Scotsman told me so.
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Offline median

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Re: What is God's purpose?
« Reply #150 on: July 01, 2014, 01:34:27 AM »
You just missed a key point there. "What the scriptures teach" is all about opinion. It must go through personal interpretation. Bible believers practice confirmation bias due to the interpretation they personally want to be true, based upon prior assumptions.

Here you are stating your own opinion with nothing to back it up.

Nope. It's not just my opinion. It is a fact. Religious sects do not agree on "doctrine" and they interpret ambiguous evidence in favor of their assumed theologies (which is a tenant of confirmation bias; i.e. - opinion's such as "Well I think the verse means this..." while ignoring counter evidence). We've seen you do it many times here just as we see Mormons and Muslims do it. Your personal opinion of how the texts should be interpreted does not negate the others, and since you have not demonstrated the alleged claims therein you have provided nothing here except that opinion (just like Muslims and Mormons do with their theologies; as I have mentioned elsewhere).

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And this is why trusting in old books is a bad idea and unreliable (which is why I earlier asked you if this was just all about opinion for you)

Here is more of nothing but opinion.

Nope. Wrong again. I actually gave the reasons why trusting these old books regarding claims to the supernatural and miraculous is unreliable. You just ignored the reasons.

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If you truly care whether or not your beliefs are true then you will stop making this all about personal opinion and make it about demonstrable facts and sound reasoning.

More personal opinion.

LOL. How childish. "I know you are but what am I! Neener! Neener!" So you think we should just make this all about your opinion then? Is that the most reliable method for determining what is true from what is not true regarding claims to the supernatural in your world? We should just buy your assumption? Your own life demonstrates the hypocrisy (and outright falsity) of this assertion of yours that it's "just my opinion" that the matter should be about demonstrable facts and sound reasoning (i.e. - the salesman at the door). Take the Outsider Test for Faith and you might see that. Would you just leave it all up to interpretation if a Hindu was trying to convince you that his religion is true, or would you ask for demonstrable evidence and sound reasoning? How about a salesman at the door selling an alleged magic product? A very long history of discovery, technology, and ingenuity also testifies to the fact that demonstrable evidence and sound reasoning is the way to go.

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You just committed the fallacy of a red-herring. The subject is nation states ("places"; she said), not socio-economic groups within those states. JWs do not have their own sovereign government which rules all within.

Incorrect.  I have demonstrated that politics is unnecessary.

No, you haven't demonstrated that politics is unnecessary. You have CLAIMED it. 

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Furthermore, it seems you are opening the door here for even more irrational nonsense because anytime we could show someone who is demonstrably "of Jehovah", and yet a counter example to your claim (such as homeless, poor, racist, etc), you can just claim they aren't "of Jehovah".

Still more personal opinion.

Wow. Now I think you really must be a child. Is it "just my opinion" that you could make such an argument? Are you not capable of making such an assertion?? If you are capable, then it is not just my opinion. Grow up.

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making it (once again) all about your personal subjective opinion on interpretation and not on what is independently demonstrable to others.

More of the same.

So why don't you start practicing what you preach and back up your assertions with evidence?

Can you read? If you made such an argument then it would in fact be making it all about personal opinion (opinion: a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge) , since that is what you would have done (i.e. - assert your personal interpretation). And since you haven't shown any reliable method for determining whose interpretation is the correct one you would be, in effect, asserting your opinion as to what the text means. Is it not your opinion that the bible means a certain thing on certain subjects?
« Last Edit: July 01, 2014, 01:42:43 AM by median »
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Offline Jstwebbrowsing

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Re: What is God's purpose?
« Reply #151 on: July 01, 2014, 03:47:15 PM »
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Got anything to back that up?

All the scriptures were listed together.  The prophecy and it's fulfillment.  Christ's life and teachings proved he was the messiah and he fulfilled all of these scriptures and many more, some of which only the messiah could fulfill.  So what is the logical conclusion about these scriptures?  They were messianic prophecies.

I mean do you think a virgin birth was coincidence?

Strong's Concordance

almah: a young woman, a virgin
Original Word: ???????
Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
Transliteration: almah
Phonetic Spelling: (al-maw')
Short Definition: maidens

Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Isaiah 43:10

Offline Airyaman

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Re: What is God's purpose?
« Reply #152 on: July 01, 2014, 08:44:49 PM »
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Got anything to back that up?

All the scriptures were listed together.  The prophecy and it's fulfillment.  Christ's life and teachings proved he was the messiah and he fulfilled all of these scriptures and many more, some of which only the messiah could fulfill.  So what is the logical conclusion about these scriptures?  They were messianic prophecies.

I mean do you think a virgin birth was coincidence?

Strong's Concordance

almah: a young woman, a virgin
Original Word: ???????
Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
Transliteration: almah
Phonetic Spelling: (al-maw')
Short Definition: maidens

So you go to a Christian source to prove your point? Strong was a Methodist, and most of his colleagues were also Christian.

But that is not the point. You said adoption proved his tribal lineage. Can you back this up?
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Offline Jag

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Re: What is God's purpose?
« Reply #153 on: July 01, 2014, 09:20:36 PM »
Speaking of virgin births...

Virgin birth

There's a funnier version here: The last bullet point made me giggle

If we must discuss virgin births, I'd like to discuss all of them.
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Offline Defiance

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Re: What is God's purpose?
« Reply #154 on: July 01, 2014, 10:45:43 PM »
Actually the closest thing to a virgin birth I'd ever heard of was a civil war myth.

Apparently, a sharpshooter was squaring off with some soldier, with him kneeling with the gun on one knee and his other knee below him. Some other person shoots at him, and BAM.

Bullets hits him right in the testicles or near that areas, goes through and keeps going til it hits a poor woman near her stomach/ vagina. Apparently, the bullet carried sperm from his balls and impregnated her.

Tell me if you need sources. I'll find them in the morning. I got this from "Mythbusters" on discovery channel.
"God is just and fair"
*God kills 2.5 million of people he KNEW would turn out like this in the flood*
*Humanity turns bad again, when God knew it would*
We should feel guilty for this.

Offline One Above All

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Re: What is God's purpose?
« Reply #155 on: July 02, 2014, 03:46:07 AM »
I assume the myth was busted. Such a scenario seems outright impossible.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
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Offline Airyaman

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Re: What is God's purpose?
« Reply #156 on: July 02, 2014, 06:07:44 AM »
Too bad we couldn't at least try to repeat the experiment using Sniper Elite III.
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Offline Defiance

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Re: What is God's purpose?
« Reply #157 on: July 02, 2014, 06:58:37 AM »
Too bad we couldn't at least try to repeat the experiment using Sniper Elite III.
Alright, if they make it that realistic, I would definitely buy it.

And yes it was. Notes here: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MythBusters_(2005_season)#Episode_30_.E2.80.93_.22Son_of_a_Gun.22
« Last Edit: July 02, 2014, 07:01:14 AM by Defiance »
"God is just and fair"
*God kills 2.5 million of people he KNEW would turn out like this in the flood*
*Humanity turns bad again, when God knew it would*
We should feel guilty for this.

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: What is God's purpose?
« Reply #158 on: July 02, 2014, 11:52:41 AM »
There have been reported cases of women becoming pregnant without direct intercourse, like sitting next to a guy in a hot tub, but there were definitely male sperm involved.

The two things that bug me most about all the virgin birth crap:

1) The woman or girl has no say in the matter. She is just the chosen vessel for the holy sperm. It amounts to rape, and everyone acts as if she was just a waste of space, with nothing better to do but get pregnant and give birth and raise this god's baby.[1]

In my religion, the angels would interview several women and finally accept the one who says, "Sure, what the hell,  I'll be the surrogate for the baby god. Pay me a zillion shekels."

2) Virginity is the selection criteria, not a character trait. It is just the way females are born. But in these stories, virginity is held up as the most specialest, wonderfullest thing about a woman.  Not her intelligence or witty personality or sense of humor or moral fiber or wisdom or hard work or even her beauty. Only the status of her hymen counts.

Can't expect a god to put his sperm where some other guy has already been. Virgins are better than non-virgins. Virgins are pure and holy. Non-virgins are dirty sluts. As if women become non-virgins all by themselves. Why do men themselves judge non-virgin women as somehow bad or tainted, when they get that way by associating with men?

Mary in the bible has zero personality. She is just a cardboard cutout who exists to get pregnant, give birth, raise a son to adulthood and watch him die horribly. Wonderful. And that is the female role model held up by Christianity.  :P

 1. Christians who happily accept 14 year old Mary as the virgin teen forced to become the mother of Jesus-- and even celebrate it on Dec. 25th-- are incensed by the story of Muhammed taking Aisha as a wife at age 14 (or 9 depending on the story). It's child rape! It's pedophilia! Unless it's my religion. Then it's Christmas.
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline Airyaman

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Re: What is God's purpose?
« Reply #159 on: July 02, 2014, 12:01:35 PM »
I guess the holy ghost wanted to see what all the excitement was about when the guys were talking about "poppin' that cherry".
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Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: What is God's purpose?
« Reply #160 on: July 02, 2014, 12:06:20 PM »
Not brought up in any way was how if she is married for more than a week was Mary still a virgin?...we all know that submitting to your husband is the #1 priority for a woman. It is such an important part that it is written in scripture,what is expected of you when you are married to a man
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Offline Jstwebbrowsing

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Re: What is God's purpose?
« Reply #161 on: July 02, 2014, 02:31:53 PM »
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Got anything to back that up?

All the scriptures were listed together.  The prophecy and it's fulfillment.  Christ's life and teachings proved he was the messiah and he fulfilled all of these scriptures and many more, some of which only the messiah could fulfill.  So what is the logical conclusion about these scriptures?  They were messianic prophecies.

I mean do you think a virgin birth was coincidence?

Strong's Concordance

almah: a young woman, a virgin
Original Word: ???????
Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
Transliteration: almah
Phonetic Spelling: (al-maw')
Short Definition: maidens

So you go to a Christian source to prove your point? Strong was a Methodist, and most of his colleagues were also Christian.

But that is not the point. You said adoption proved his tribal lineage. Can you back this up?

Adoption makes one a legal child.  That is the entire purpose of adoption.  As a legal child he was a legal heir.
Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Isaiah 43:10

Offline YRM_DM

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Re: What is God's purpose?
« Reply #162 on: July 02, 2014, 02:42:36 PM »
Jstwebbrowsing,

We know that the books of the new testament were written 20 to... I think 100 years after Jesus death.  The oldest ones are Paul's letters to various churches, most of which don't talk about fulfilled prophecy or miracles.

We know that most of the prophecies that churches point to as true are surrounded by bunches of words that don't make sense or didn't come true.

We know that many of the prophecies are general things that happen all throughout history.

And we know that Jesus and his followers and anyone who wrote about them would have been familiar with the Old Testament.

Jesus refers to the prophecy when he asks his followers to go get him a donkey to ride.

So... given all that, why couldn't people have... 20-100+ years after the fact, altered the details of the story, and altered them to make it seem as though they fulfilled prophecy?

There isn't one trick that Jesus did that a stage magician couldn't pull off, and no lasting evidence of any of his miracles.   There were tall tales that sprang up throughout history about many other men who people admired though.

Why is THIS GUY, and ONLY THIS GUY, able to, say, cause a molecular change to water that equates to a nuclear reaction and turn it into wine, but, every other human being in history would have done that with a magic trick?

And if he was able to do that, why doesn't he answer prayers now?
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Offline Jstwebbrowsing

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Re: What is God's purpose?
« Reply #163 on: July 02, 2014, 02:56:36 PM »
1) The woman or girl has no say in the matter. She is just the chosen vessel for the holy sperm. It amounts to rape

Please explain how she was forced to have sexual intercourse without consent?  Fertilizing an egg is not sex, at all.  Have doctors that have fertilized eggs inside of women had sex?  What we really have here is nothing more than a demonstration of your desire to slander Jehovah.  How is it even possible to have a real discussion with someone that takes something that was not even sex at all and call it rape?

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2) But in these stories, virginity is held up as the most specialest, wonderfullest thing about a woman.

Here is another falsehood.  More slander.  Men were forbidden from fornication too.  Also chasteness is only one thing the Bible says is virtous in a woman.  Further couples that are virgins when they are married share a unique bond that is beneficial.
Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Isaiah 43:10

Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: What is God's purpose?
« Reply #164 on: July 02, 2014, 02:56:46 PM »
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Got anything to back that up?

All the scriptures were listed together.  The prophecy and it's fulfillment.  Christ's life and teachings proved he was the messiah and he fulfilled all of these scriptures and many more, some of which only the messiah could fulfill.  So what is the logical conclusion about these scriptures?  They were messianic prophecies.

I mean do you think a virgin birth was coincidence?

Strong's Concordance

almah: a young woman, a virgin
Original Word: ???????
Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
Transliteration: almah
Phonetic Spelling: (al-maw')
Short Definition: maidens

So you go to a Christian source to prove your point? Strong was a Methodist, and most of his colleagues were also Christian.

But that is not the point. You said adoption proved his tribal lineage. Can you back this up?

Adoption makes one a legal child.  That is the entire purpose of adoption.  As a legal child he was a legal heir.
If a white guy adopts an African child,It does not change the child's lineage,just who his guardian is..... you take stupid to an entirely new level
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Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: What is God's purpose?
« Reply #165 on: July 02, 2014, 03:00:09 PM »
1) The woman or girl has no say in the matter. She is just the chosen vessel for the holy sperm. It amounts to rape

Please explain how she was forced to have sexual intercourse without consent?  Fertilizing an egg is not sex, at all.  Have doctors that have fertilized eggs inside of women had sex?  What we really have here is nothing more than a demonstration of your desire to slander Jehovah.  How is it even possible to have a real discussion with someone that takes something that was not even sex at all and call it rape?

Quote
2) But in these stories, virginity is held up as the most specialest, wonderfullest thing about a woman.

Here is another falsehood.  More slander.  Men were forbidden from fornication too.  Also chasteness is only one thing the Bible says is virtous in a woman.  Further couples that are virgins when they are married share a unique bond that is beneficial.
Why do you lie....are you actually saying God sperm was involved? Just when I think you can't get any deeper into your well of bullshit,or for that matter any stupider,you manage to. Is this true of the virgin rape victim forced to marry her attacker,as long as he pays the father? Your brand of STUPID makes other theists look appealing
« Last Edit: July 02, 2014, 03:02:14 PM by 12 Monkeys »
There's no right there's no wrong,there's just popular opinion (Brad Pitt as Jeffery Goines in 12 monkeys)

Offline Jstwebbrowsing

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Re: What is God's purpose?
« Reply #166 on: July 02, 2014, 03:03:37 PM »
I guess the holy ghost wanted to see what all the excitement was about when the guys were talking about "poppin' that cherry".

This is detestable.  It is time for me to leave.
Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Isaiah 43:10

Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: What is God's purpose?
« Reply #167 on: July 02, 2014, 03:06:57 PM »
I guess the holy ghost wanted to see what all the excitement was about when the guys were talking about "poppin' that cherry".

This is detestable.  It is time for me to leave.
Answer my question before you go,does the virginity of a rape victim hold the same value as Mary? After all when the rapist pays the father,he gets a wife in return. Turns out a few sheckels of silver is all virginity is worth
There's no right there's no wrong,there's just popular opinion (Brad Pitt as Jeffery Goines in 12 monkeys)

Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: What is God's purpose?
« Reply #168 on: July 02, 2014, 03:09:53 PM »
And if the rapist rapes and leaves,should we stone the girl to death for not being a virgin on her wedding night?
There's no right there's no wrong,there's just popular opinion (Brad Pitt as Jeffery Goines in 12 monkeys)

Offline Jstwebbrowsing

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Re: What is God's purpose?
« Reply #169 on: July 02, 2014, 03:21:25 PM »
Jstwebbrowsing,

We know that the books of the new testament were written 20 to... I think 100 years after Jesus death.  The oldest ones are Paul's letters to various churches, most of which don't talk about fulfilled prophecy or miracles.

We know that most of the prophecies that churches point to as true are surrounded by bunches of words that don't make sense or didn't come true.

We know that many of the prophecies are general things that happen all throughout history.

And we know that Jesus and his followers and anyone who wrote about them would have been familiar with the Old Testament.

Jesus refers to the prophecy when he asks his followers to go get him a donkey to ride.

So... given all that, why couldn't people have... 20-100+ years after the fact, altered the details of the story, and altered them to make it seem as though they fulfilled prophecy?

There isn't one trick that Jesus did that a stage magician couldn't pull off, and no lasting evidence of any of his miracles.   There were tall tales that sprang up throughout history about many other men who people admired though.

Why is THIS GUY, and ONLY THIS GUY, able to, say, cause a molecular change to water that equates to a nuclear reaction and turn it into wine, but, every other human being in history would have done that with a magic trick?

And if he was able to do that, why doesn't he answer prayers now?

I understand your points.  I wouldn't mind speaking about these with you, but staying here is causing more harm than good as it has deteriorated into a slander fest.  I will not provide a platform for this.  Since I won't be allowed to stop replying to certain persons and I'm not going to willingly subject Jehovah and myself to abuse, I have no choice but to leave.  I choose to follow the scriptures.  "Don't have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels." (2 Timothy 2:23)   "Shun foolish questionings, and genealogies, and strifes, and fightings about law; for they are unprofitable and vain. (Titus 3:9)

I also post at another forum if you want to further discuss anything with me.  IsGodImaginary.com




Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Isaiah 43:10

Offline Jstwebbrowsing

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Re: What is God's purpose?
« Reply #170 on: July 02, 2014, 03:24:41 PM »
I guess the holy ghost wanted to see what all the excitement was about when the guys were talking about "poppin' that cherry".

This is detestable.  It is time for me to leave.
Answer my question before you go,does the virginity of a rape victim hold the same value as Mary? After all when the rapist pays the father,he gets a wife in return. Turns out a few sheckels of silver is all virginity is worth

Rape was punishable by death.  No victim married their rapist.  This old argument is misapplying instructions for premarital sex.  The two preceedeing versus deal with rape.
Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Isaiah 43:10

Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: What is God's purpose?
« Reply #171 on: July 02, 2014, 03:28:10 PM »
I guess the holy ghost wanted to see what all the excitement was about when the guys were talking about "poppin' that cherry".

This is detestable.  It is time for me to leave.
Answer my question before you go,does the virginity of a rape victim hold the same value as Mary? After all when the rapist pays the father,he gets a wife in return. Turns out a few sheckels of silver is all virginity is worth

Rape was punishable by death.  No victim married their rapist.  This old argument is misapplying instructions for premarital sex.  The two preceedeing versus deal with rape.
STOP lying for Jesus

"If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he has violated (anah) her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives." Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NIV

 This clearly shows God has little interest in the importance of virginity.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2014, 03:30:34 PM by 12 Monkeys »
There's no right there's no wrong,there's just popular opinion (Brad Pitt as Jeffery Goines in 12 monkeys)

Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: What is God's purpose?
« Reply #172 on: July 02, 2014, 03:29:00 PM »
AND GO ALREADY
There's no right there's no wrong,there's just popular opinion (Brad Pitt as Jeffery Goines in 12 monkeys)

Offline Gnu Ordure

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Re: What is God's purpose?
« Reply #173 on: July 02, 2014, 03:53:45 PM »
JWB, I see you replying to everyone's posts except mine.