Author Topic: What is God's purpose?  (Read 2308 times)

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Offline dloubet

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What is God's purpose?
« on: June 19, 2014, 03:47:29 AM »
If the god has no purpose, then it is purposeless, pointless, meaningless.
If it has a purpose, then it is subject to that purpose, constrained, limited.

If the god has a purpose, then what is that purpose.
Denis Loubet

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Re: What is God's purpose?
« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2014, 04:15:44 AM »
Gods purpose is to be worshipped.
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Offline dloubet

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Re: What is God's purpose?
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2014, 04:33:26 AM »
Gods purpose is to be worshipped.

And thus it is forced to create things to worship it.

Interesting.
Denis Loubet

Offline Defiance

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Re: What is God's purpose?
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2014, 04:50:30 AM »
I request, ask, that we stop giving them leeway from the beginning. Our first question should be that they prove God's existence, which they cannot, and then discuss its properties.
"God is just and fair"
*God kills 2.5 million of people he KNEW would turn out like this in the flood*
*Humanity turns bad again, when God knew it would*
We should feel guilty for this.

Offline Add Homonym

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Re: What is God's purpose?
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2014, 05:04:54 AM »
I request, ask, that we stop giving them leeway from the beginning. Our first question should be that they prove God's existence, which they cannot, and then discuss its properties.

I can prove God's existence. God is my Brother Laser printer. I can show photos of him.
Humans, in general, don't waste any opportunity to be unfathomably stupid - Dr Cynical.

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Re: What is God's purpose?
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2014, 06:08:33 AM »
You own a laser printer.....i feel less of a man now.
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Re: What is God's purpose?
« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2014, 06:11:55 AM »
Dloub, what's the point of all that omni-perfectness without a bunch of scurrying idiots as a point of reference to contrast with.



when a tree falls in the forest..... can a perfect being exist...
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Offline Defiance

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Re: What is God's purpose?
« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2014, 06:15:22 AM »
I request, ask, that we stop giving them leeway from the beginning. Our first question should be that they prove God's existence, which they cannot, and then discuss its properties.

I can prove God's existence. God is my Brother Laser printer. I can show photos of him.
False. My microwave is God.

It makes sure I don't get sick from bad food.
"God is just and fair"
*God kills 2.5 million of people he KNEW would turn out like this in the flood*
*Humanity turns bad again, when God knew it would*
We should feel guilty for this.

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Re: What is God's purpose?
« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2014, 06:40:39 AM »
False gods ^.

Your blasphemy has been documented.
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Offline Airyaman

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Re: What is God's purpose?
« Reply #9 on: June 19, 2014, 06:50:23 AM »
Not so sure about this one. Do we have a purpose? Let's take gods out of the equation for a second and go purely with evolution leading to mankind. What is our purpose? Continued survival is the only thing I can think of, everything else is just a bonus. Even then, continued survival is not really a purpose so much as it is a desire.

Now, back to God. If we say God really has no true purpose, why then must one preclude that it is purposeless, pointless, meaningless? In the above scenario, are you purposeless, pointless, meaningless?
If you are following God why can I still see you?

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Re: What is God's purpose?
« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2014, 07:10:47 AM »
Mate spawn die.

I am the mekanik - i am here to collect data, its reconnaissance. you will be informed of your purpose when you become useful. until then, sleep.

my function is my purpose, my purpose is my function.
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Offline junebug72

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Re: What is God's purpose?
« Reply #11 on: June 19, 2014, 08:15:27 AM »
Would you prefer that life never happened?  In all that space there was only room for God?  I see life as an opportunity to become something better; a beautiful gift. 

Either way we are here and I think we should do our best with our gift.  I think mankind should work together.  Oh my, I get so darn happy thinking about it I could jump for joy. 

All you can really do is be the change you want to see in the world.   I want a healthy and positive perspective of God to stay and religion to go away.  I do not want atheism to take over our world view as a species.  I want us to respect life, each other and this planet. 

I think God's purpose is to see if "life" is a good idea or not.  It is a responsibility I am honored to have.

I don't think sharing "life" with us is such a bad thing whether it came from luck or was an intelligent creation.  It should be cherished.  ;)

The blame lay with those that do not cherish life.  So sad to say but they are usually religious people that blame their horrible conducts on a god/s.  History has recorded the horrors of religions. 

I don't see how a real god could approve of any of it; religions.  What a disgrace to a real god!
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
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Offline penfold

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Re: What is God's purpose?
« Reply #12 on: June 19, 2014, 09:20:22 AM »
If the god has no purpose, then it is purposeless, pointless, meaningless.
If it has a purpose, then it is subject to that purpose, constrained, limited.

If the god has a purpose, then what is that purpose.

Traditionally the Xian answer (see esp Aquinas Summa Theologica) is that God is the source of purpose and does not have purpose herself. An analogy used by some theologians is that of a bowl of milk and a cat. The cat is drawn towards the milk without the milk moving[1]. In the same way the universe has a purpose (just as the cat moves) because of the purposeless God (just as the milk is motionless).

Make of that what you will.... 
 1. Yes, obviously molecules must be moving through the air to attract the cat - but we're talking about theologians here, they slept through physics and chemistry...
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn’t go away." - P.K.D.

Offline Graybeard

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Re: What is God's purpose?
« Reply #13 on: June 19, 2014, 09:22:26 AM »
Would you prefer that life never happened?
If life had not happened, then you would not be here to ask that question, so it's not a very good question.

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In all that space there was only room for God?
What? God filled 'space'? So why did he not just magick it bigger if he was cramped?
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I see life as an opportunity to become something better
Better than what?

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Either way we are here and I think we should do our best with our gift.
Why does the billionaire's son always seem to do better?
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I think mankind should work together.
But what if one person wants the walls coloured blue and the other wants them yellow? With whom should I work 'together'?

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All you can really do is be the change you want to see in the world.
Can you explain this a little more? TBH, you have lost me

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I want a healthy and positive perspective of God to stay and religion to go away.
Why? As the question asks, "What is God's purpose?"
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I do not want atheism to take over our world view as a species.
Will any god do? Or has it got to be a particular god?
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I want us to respect life, each other and this planet.
And that is what atheists do, and they do it without reference to magic.

Do you believe that magic is a real thing, you know, like Leprechauns grant you wishes and house elves wash your dishes at night and pumpkins turn into coaches?

Do you think it would help if your aims and aspirations were more "in the real world"? Because to me it sounds as if you want a lot of what most people want but you expect some invisible magic man to do all the work for you.

Am I right? 

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I think God's purpose is to see if "life" is a good idea or not.
Well, he didn't think it was very good when he drowned the world, did he?

Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

Offline LoriPinkAngel

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It doesn't make sense to let go of something you've had for so long.  But it also doesn't make sense to hold on when there's actually nothing there.

Offline Bluecolour

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Re: What is God's purpose?
« Reply #15 on: June 19, 2014, 10:34:37 AM »
If the god has no purpose, then it is purposeless, pointless, meaningless.
If it has a purpose, then it is subject to that purpose, constrained, limited.

If the god has a purpose, then what is that purpose.

Traditionally the Xian answer (see esp Aquinas Summa Theologica) is that God is the source of purpose and does not have purpose herself. An analogy used by some theologians is that of a bowl of milk and a cat. The cat is drawn towards the milk without the milk moving[1]. In the same way the universe has a purpose (just as the cat moves) because of the purposeless God (just as the milk is motionless).

Make of that what you will....
 1. Yes, obviously molecules must be moving through the air to attract the cat - but we're talking about theologians here, they slept through physics and chemistry...

WOW :blank:
You mean there were religious people asking such 'radical'  questions billions and billions of years ago.

Offline junebug72

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Re: What is God's purpose?
« Reply #16 on: June 19, 2014, 12:04:29 PM »

Do you believe that magic is a real thing, you know, like Leprechauns grant you wishes and house elves wash your dishes at night and pumpkins turn into coaches?

Do you think it would help if your aims and aspirations were more "in the real world"? Because to me it sounds as if you want a lot of what most people want but you expect some invisible magic man to do all the work for you.

Am I right? 

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I think God's purpose is to see if "life" is a good idea or not.
Well, he didn't think it was very good when he drowned the world, did he?

I have never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever never ever ever ever ever ever ever said that God will save us.  I have always since the beginning of my membership here said that we must clean up our own mess.   

As for God's purpose I still believe it was/is to share the gift of life.  I believe our purpose is to respect it.

Better than good.

You know I don't believe the bible. 



Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
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Offline Jstwebbrowsing

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Re: What is God's purpose?
« Reply #17 on: June 19, 2014, 01:05:55 PM »
If the god has no purpose, then it is purposeless, pointless, meaningless.
If it has a purpose, then it is subject to that purpose, constrained, limited.

If the god has a purpose, then what is that purpose.

Jehovah's purpose in relation to this earth can be derived from Genesis and throughout the rest of the scriptures.  The purpose is to have a paradise like Eden filled with loving humans.
Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Isaiah 43:10

Offline Airyaman

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Re: What is God's purpose?
« Reply #18 on: June 19, 2014, 01:49:33 PM »
If the god has no purpose, then it is purposeless, pointless, meaningless.
If it has a purpose, then it is subject to that purpose, constrained, limited.

If the god has a purpose, then what is that purpose.

Jehovah's purpose in relation to this earth can be derived from Genesis and throughout the rest of the scriptures.  The purpose is to have a paradise like Eden filled with loving humans.

The OP is not asking about what God's purposes are for what he supposedly created, but what is God's purpose in and of himself.
If you are following God why can I still see you?

Offline Jstwebbrowsing

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Re: What is God's purpose?
« Reply #19 on: June 19, 2014, 01:56:01 PM »
If the god has no purpose, then it is purposeless, pointless, meaningless.
If it has a purpose, then it is subject to that purpose, constrained, limited.

If the god has a purpose, then what is that purpose.

Jehovah's purpose in relation to this earth can be derived from Genesis and throughout the rest of the scriptures.  The purpose is to have a paradise like Eden filled with loving humans.

The OP is not asking about what God's purposes are for what he supposedly created, but what is God's purpose in and of himself.

His name, Jehovah, gives the idea that his purpose is to exist and create purpose.
Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Isaiah 43:10

Offline One Above All

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Re: What is God's purpose?
« Reply #20 on: June 19, 2014, 01:57:50 PM »
His name, Jehovah, gives the idea that his purpose is to exist and create purpose.

What does "Jehovah" even mean?
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

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Offline Jstwebbrowsing

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Re: What is God's purpose?
« Reply #21 on: June 19, 2014, 02:09:04 PM »
His name, Jehovah, gives the idea that his purpose is to exist and create purpose.

What does "Jehovah" even mean?

(Je·ho'vah) [the causative form, the imperfect state, of the Heb. verb ha·wah' (become); meaning “He Causes to Become”].

http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200002391

It is also further defined at Exodus 3:14, "I am that I am", and also "I am".

This identifies him as the self-existent God that causes his will to become reality.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2014, 02:10:46 PM by Jstwebbrowsing »
Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Isaiah 43:10

Offline One Above All

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Re: What is God's purpose?
« Reply #22 on: June 19, 2014, 02:12:16 PM »
(Je·ho'vah) [the causative form, the imperfect state, of the Heb. verb ha·wah? (become); meaning “He Causes to Become”].

OK. How do you deal with the fact that ancient Hebrew had no vowels, and the fact that his name is actually YHWH or YHVH?

It is also further defined at Exodus 3:14, "I am that I am", and also "I am".

The first statement is nonsensical, and the second is incomplete.

This identifies him as the self-existent God that causes his will to become reality.

He says his name is "Jealous" when ordering not to worship other gods.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken_rjcf/Lucifer/All In One.

Offline Jstwebbrowsing

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Re: What is God's purpose?
« Reply #23 on: June 19, 2014, 02:25:07 PM »
OK. How do you deal with the fact that ancient Hebrew had no vowels, and the fact that his name is actually YHWH or YHVH?

They had vowels.  They just did not use them in writing.  The Hebrew reader knew which vowels to place in their words.  Much like you can if I write "bldg" or something similar.  Vowels do belong in the name, there is just not aboslute certainty which vowels, hence the uncertainty of it's original pronunciation.  Although most scholars agree it was most likely Yah'weh.

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The first statement is nonsensical, and the second is incomplete.

It has also been translated as "I will be what I will be" or "I will become what I will become".

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He says his name is "Jealous" when ordering not to worship other gods.

Yes and he has applied other names to himself as well as many titles.  However, only one was given like this, "And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, Jehovah, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name forever, and this is my memorial unto all generations." (Exodus 3:15)

All of these titles describe what he is.  His personal name describes who he is.


Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Isaiah 43:10

Offline One Above All

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Re: What is God's purpose?
« Reply #24 on: June 19, 2014, 02:32:17 PM »
They had vowels.  They just did not use them in writing.  The Hebrew reader knew which vowels to place in their words.  Much like you can if I write "bldg" or something similar.  Vowels do belong in the name, there is just not aboslute certainty which vowels, hence the uncertainty of it's original pronunciation.  Although most scholars agree it was most likely Yah'weh.

Yet you call him Jehovah and don't see a problem with that. Gotcha.

It has also been translated as "I will be what I will be" or "I will become what I will become".

Those statements, while true, are redundant. "I will go where I will go" is also true, but it's redundant and doesn't say anything of relevance.

All of these titles describe what he is.  His personal name describes who he is.

So he's the jealous creator of everything... and you want us to worship him? If a human is jealous all his life (which, in the case of Jehovah, is eternal), where does he/she end up? Nowhere; he dies. Yet Jehovah takes liberties in breaking his own rules. "Lead by example"; ever heard of it?
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken_rjcf/Lucifer/All In One.

Offline Jstwebbrowsing

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Re: What is God's purpose?
« Reply #25 on: June 19, 2014, 02:48:44 PM »
Yet you call him Jehovah and don't see a problem with that. Gotcha.

I see no reason why I should have a problem with it.  I call the messiah Jesus and not Yesh'ua.

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Those statements, while true, are redundant. "I will go where I will go" is also true, but it's redundant and doesn't say anything of relevance.

It does to me.  More specifically it means, "he causes to become".  It identifies him as the grand purposer.

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So he's the jealous creator of everything... and you want us to worship him? If a human is jealous all his life (which, in the case of Jehovah, is eternal), where does he/she end up?

That depends on the type of jealousy.  Bing defines it as 3. watchful: possessively watchful of something.  This is what Jehovah is and there is nothing wrong with it.  It is a protection to the objects of it.

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Yet Jehovah takes liberties in breaking his own rules. "Lead by example"; ever heard of it?

This is not true.  The real problem is that you think, even though he is God, he should act like a human.  That is not a logical conclusion.  That is actually an irrational conclusion.
Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Isaiah 43:10

Offline penfold

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Re: What is God's purpose?
« Reply #26 on: June 20, 2014, 03:34:59 AM »
Those statements, while true, are redundant. "I will go where I will go" is also true, but it's redundant and doesn't say anything of relevance.

It does to me.  More specifically it means, "he causes to become".  It identifies him as the grand purposer.

The idea of naming God is interesting to me. The Jewish theologian Maimonides makes the point that God worshiped with words is worshiped imperfectly, rather God should be worshiped in silence (a similar route taken by the Quakers in their 'unprogrammed worship'). I ask as a non-believer but do you think there is any merit to the idea that by naming God it impinges upon her perfection and unity?

Another stray thought that occurs is this, how far is it profitable to think about the linguistic motives for naming when interpreting the name? You interpret YHWH telling us something positive God's character (a very 'top-down' approach). There is a second, negative, aspect of a name, which is to tell us what it is not. Much modern scholarship[1] (as I understand it) is that the name YHWH has a complex history starting with El the father-god of Bronze-age Semitic polytheism, and even initially coupled with a consort Asherah[2]. All this makes me wonder if the name YHWH is not really about telling us God is 'source of becoming' but primarily telling us this God is not other God. (just as 'red' not only signifies a colour but singifies 'not other colour').

It may be that the name YHWH operates like any other name, to discern this one from others. If this is, even part, the case isn't there a danger you are reading too much theology into these names?
 1. See MS Smith The Origins of Biblical Monotheism
 2. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asherah
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn’t go away." - P.K.D.

Offline dloubet

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Re: What is God's purpose?
« Reply #27 on: June 20, 2014, 04:55:25 AM »

The OP is not asking about what God's purposes are for what he supposedly created, but what is God's purpose in and of himself.

His name, Jehovah, gives the idea that his purpose is to exist and create purpose.

Heck, the universe does that all by itself, no god necessary.

So what assigned the god its task? It can't be the god itself because the god is supposed to be unchanging.
Denis Loubet

Offline Backspace

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Re: What is God's purpose?
« Reply #28 on: June 20, 2014, 08:03:07 AM »
Trying to nail-down biblical god's name is like trying to nail Jello to a wall.  Scroll about half way down this link to a list of names he (and his alter egos)  is referred to:

http://christianity.stackexchange.com/a/706
« Last Edit: June 20, 2014, 08:05:16 AM by Backspace »
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