Author Topic: To continue....  (Read 249 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Jstwebbrowsing

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1331
  • Darwins +21/-97
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
To continue....
« on: June 16, 2014, 02:34:44 PM »
I actually had a post prepared when the forum went down.  I don't remember exactly the topic.  But here is the reply.

Do you have any idea what this...ability...to determine whether or not an idea was implanted by god actually entails?  I wouldn't expect an ambiguous answer in this case, assuming that god doesn't want to be ambiguous.  After all, it's god implanting this idea, and god implanting the...knowledge...that the idea does in fact come from him.

I don't know what it would have been like for them, no.  I don't know what it's like to prophecy, speak in tongues, resurrect the dead, or any of those other things.  Jehovah inspires me but I'm not a prophet or an apostle.  I don't know what it's like to receive inspiration above what I myself have received.  But I can tell you that to recognize it is a learning process and much depends on Jehovah's will.  I cannot will myself to become a prophet.

Quote
Does drowning your kids in response to a message that you thought was from god count as training and/or experience?

No.  Murder is definately out of the question.

Quote
Why would it ever go away?  Does god get tired of trying or something?  Personally, I can't tell if it was ever there in the first place - would I be able to tell if it went away?

It's not actually God that goes away so much as your ability to perceive his spirit becomes dull or even sometimes seared.  If it has become dull it can be sharpened with the scriptures.  If it has become seared then that is permanent.

I don't know if you would be able to tell or not.  Jesus said, "Happy are those conscious of their spiritual need."  Can you perceive a spiritual need within yourself?  That may be a good indicator.  Asking questions can reflect a consciousness of it.  But then it really boils down to why you are asking. 

Quote
Apparently, help from god couldn't do it (i.e. his inception of ideas to me that he may or may not have stopped doing).  Not sure I could find a better helper than god himself in this manner, so I'm not sure if a congregation would help any better.

Ironically this sort of thinking was one of my biggest mistakes.  Jehovah can do it, but he's not going to.  He is not going to do it apart from his people.  Don't get me wrong.  He doesn't just desert everyone apart from his people.  He will still try to lead anyone that wants to be lead.  But he will try to lead them to his people.  There comes a time that if you refuse to count yourself among his people so will he.

Quote
But then again, I'm unsure if I would be able to pick the right congregation.

Christ said, "By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another"  (Jn 13:35).  This doesn't just mean Christians are to be loving people.  "As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good to all men, especially to them who are of the household of faith." (Gal 6:10)

The true beauty of Christianity can only truly be seen within the congregation.  It is is here that the love is perfected as Christians all love one another.  And it is this love that Christ said would be a sign to the world, this love they would have for one another.  It must be a love that unites them all, not only those in local congregations, but to their brothers and sisters all over the world.  Their love sets them apart.  There is nothing else like it in the world.

If you can find a congregation that truly does that then you will have found Christ's disciples.  These are the ones you should listen to.

Quote
I used to be Catholic, but at least according to skeptic54768, if I had sought help from them I would have ultimately been seeking help from Satan (the demon that runs the Catholic church, according to skeptic54768).

You will need to make up your mind about who is leading what.  Christ said this, "By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?" (Mt 7:16)  Pay less attention to what they say and more attention to what they do.

Quote
There is lots of help out there.  My problem is...I can't tell whose help is actually going to be real help or if it's going to be help from those who are in no position to actually help - either from congregations that are not actually in commune with god (but only think they are), or congregations that are potentially being led by nefarious forces acting against god's will.

Again, pay less attention to what they say and more attention to what they do.  Christ didn't say people would know his disciples by their teachings.  People won't know them by their miraculous signs.  People will know them by their love, not only as individuals but also as a congregation.  Both must be true.  Anyone can be a loving person.  That doesn't make them Christ's disciples.  Christ's disciple aren't perfect people but their love sets them apart.

Quote
People who feel that they are living in harmony with biblical wisdom are a dime a dozen.  And say contradictory things.

I'm not sure I can trust such a measurement.

There are many people that feel they are living in harmony with the Bible but do not love their brothers and sisters.  Look for those that bring honor to Jehovah, not by words, but by actions.

Quote
And there are plenty of people who have no doubt.  And say contradictory things - that is, they say things that run counter to what your congregation is saying.

I'm not sure I can trust such a measurement.

Oh yes, my congregation has a minority view in fact.  According to most of Christendom I can't even be a Christian because I woship Jehovah and not a trinity and I don't believe in a burning hell.  Ultimately, you're going to have to put your trust in Jehovah.  He will never reject nor destroy anyone that seeks to know him.  Just never become complacant.  Always keep searching.

Quote
I suppose all you can do is your best.  But you not wanting yourself to be misled isn't actually doing anything to guard against misleading yourself.

Yes that's all you can do.  If you do that Jehovah will receive you.  The best guideline is scripture.  That's why it's here.

Quote
Could you provide an example of that wisdom?  I just don't know how you determine if some bit of wisdom could only have originated from the holy spirit.

"This is the end of the matter; all hath been heard: fear God, and keep his commandments; for this is the whole duty of man." (Ecc 12:13)

I'm sure that doesn't sound much like wisdom to you.  But this is where wisdom comes from.

Quote
a) This answer isn't satisfactory.  I have no idea why you not being a prophet or apostle would necessarily mean that those in the past claiming to be prophets and apostles actually were.

Then you have to weigh their message.  Does it promote the pure worship of Jehovah?  Do their prophecies come true?  Is it in harmony with the other prophets?  Do they testify of Christ?

Quote
I think we could use another revelation.  One that is a bit less ambiguous.

One is coming.
Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Isaiah 43:10

Offline Defiance

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 540
  • Darwins +21/-1
  • Gender: Male
  • Can't be mad at something that doesn't exist.
Re: To continue....
« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2014, 03:19:07 PM »
Yes, One Above All is definitely showing up around here.

Anyways, can you list out a list of things your are presupposing when you discuss this topic?

I'll start you off:
-God exists.
-He is your God.
-Your God is exactly as you describe.
-
-

Thanks.
"God is just and fair"
*God kills 2.5 million of people he KNEW would turn out like this in the flood*
*Humanity turns bad again, when God knew it would*
We should feel guilty for this.

Offline Jstwebbrowsing

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1331
  • Darwins +21/-97
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: To continue....
« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2014, 03:30:17 PM »
Yes, One Above All is definitely showing up around here.

Anyways, can you list out a list of things your are presupposing when you discuss this topic?

I'll start you off:
-God exists.
-He is your God.
-Your God is exactly as you describe.
-
-

Thanks.

I've not presuppossed anything.  I've simply given what the Bible says are answers to the questions that were asked.
Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Isaiah 43:10

Offline Defiance

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 540
  • Darwins +21/-1
  • Gender: Male
  • Can't be mad at something that doesn't exist.
Re: To continue....
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2014, 03:46:54 PM »
Yes, One Above All is definitely showing up around here.

Anyways, can you list out a list of things your are presupposing when you discuss this topic?

I'll start you off:
-God exists.
-He is your God.
-Your God is exactly as you describe.
-
-

Thanks.

I've not presuppossed anything.  I've simply given what the Bible says are answers to the questions that were asked.
Ok. Do you believe that the answers in the bible are true?
"God is just and fair"
*God kills 2.5 million of people he KNEW would turn out like this in the flood*
*Humanity turns bad again, when God knew it would*
We should feel guilty for this.

Offline Jstwebbrowsing

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1331
  • Darwins +21/-97
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: To continue....
« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2014, 03:53:27 PM »
Yes, One Above All is definitely showing up around here.

Anyways, can you list out a list of things your are presupposing when you discuss this topic?

I'll start you off:
-God exists.
-He is your God.
-Your God is exactly as you describe.
-
-

Thanks.

I've not presuppossed anything.  I've simply given what the Bible says are answers to the questions that were asked.
Ok. Do you believe that the answers in the bible are true?

What I believe in this discussion is irrelevant.  The questions were about Christianity.  What I believe doesn't change the answers.
Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Isaiah 43:10

Offline Mrjason

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1141
  • Darwins +82/-2
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: To continue....
« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2014, 05:05:05 AM »
What I believe in this discussion is irrelevant.  The questions were about Christianity.  What I believe doesn't change the answers.

Of course it is relevant. if everyone believed the same as you this discussion would not be happening. What you believe totally changes the answers.

Offline Jstwebbrowsing

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1331
  • Darwins +21/-97
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: To continue....
« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2014, 12:09:53 PM »
What I believe in this discussion is irrelevant.  The questions were about Christianity.  What I believe doesn't change the answers.

Of course it is relevant. if everyone believed the same as you this discussion would not be happening. What you believe totally changes the answers.

No it doesn't.  And I'm not going to try to tell someone they should believe what I believe.  If I wanted to push my beliefs I would have said "X" is the right congregation.  I did not say that.  I gave the biblical guidlines to help identify them.  This leaves people free to believe whatever they want to believe.
Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Isaiah 43:10

Offline Add Homonym

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 2553
  • Darwins +206/-4
  • Gender: Male
  • I did haz jeezusburgerâ„¢
Re: To continue....
« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2014, 09:55:54 AM »
One is coming.

It can only come in an era where there are no digicams. For Christ to come again, we would need to collapse of civilization, so that people like John, could just make us shit, and be believed.
I strive for clarity, but aim for confusion.

Offline Mrjason

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1141
  • Darwins +82/-2
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: To continue....
« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2014, 10:07:26 AM »
What I believe in this discussion is irrelevant.  The questions were about Christianity.  What I believe doesn't change the answers.

Of course it is relevant. if everyone believed the same as you this discussion would not be happening. What you believe totally changes the answers.

No it doesn't.  And I'm not going to try to tell someone they should believe what I believe.  If I wanted to push my beliefs I would have said "X" is the right congregation.  I did not say that.  I gave the biblical guidlines to help identify them.  This leaves people free to believe whatever they want to believe.

Your starting position is that the bible is true. This is your belief, it fundamentally alters the discussion. Without a belief in the bible questions about christianity are moot.

Offline Jstwebbrowsing

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1331
  • Darwins +21/-97
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: To continue....
« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2014, 11:44:30 AM »
One is coming.

It can only come in an era where there are no digicams. For Christ to come again, we would need to collapse of civilization, so that people like John, could just make us shit, and be believed.

This is what is prophecied.  It will begin with the end of false organized religion.  Even atheists are pulling at this string.  But once it occurs it will have a domino effect on the rest of human society.
Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Isaiah 43:10

Offline Jstwebbrowsing

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1331
  • Darwins +21/-97
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: To continue....
« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2014, 11:46:40 AM »
What I believe in this discussion is irrelevant.  The questions were about Christianity.  What I believe doesn't change the answers.

Of course it is relevant. if everyone believed the same as you this discussion would not be happening. What you believe totally changes the answers.

No it doesn't.  And I'm not going to try to tell someone they should believe what I believe.  If I wanted to push my beliefs I would have said "X" is the right congregation.  I did not say that.  I gave the biblical guidlines to help identify them.  This leaves people free to believe whatever they want to believe.

Your starting position is that the bible is true. This is your belief, it fundamentally alters the discussion. Without a belief in the bible questions about christianity are moot.

Someone asked questions.  I answered from the Bible.  Whether or not someone believes the Bible is up to them.
Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Isaiah 43:10

Offline One Above All

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 10554
  • Darwins +264/-33
  • Gender: Male
  • Supreme ruler of the multiverse; All In One
Re: To continue....
« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2014, 11:55:50 AM »
I can't believe I have to do this[1] again, but...
Jstwebbrowsing is right. jdawg70's thread was to discuss divine inspiration under the assumption that the Bible was true and that its god inspired people, as his believers claim. This thread is simply a reply to that thread.

EDIT:
Yes, One Above All is definitely showing up around here.

Guess you were right, though probably not for the reasons you expected.
 1. Stand up for a theist.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2014, 12:03:31 PM by One Above All »
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken_rjcf/Lucifer/All In One.

Offline Jstwebbrowsing

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1331
  • Darwins +21/-97
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: To continue....
« Reply #12 on: June 20, 2014, 12:20:47 PM »
I can't believe I have to do this[1] again, but...
Jstwebbrowsing is right. jdawg70's thread was to discuss divine inspiration under the assumption that the Bible was true and that its god inspired people, as his believers claim. This thread is simply a reply to that thread.

EDIT:
Yes, One Above All is definitely showing up around here.

Guess you were right, though probably not for the reasons you expected.
 1. Stand up for a theist.

It's hard for me to believe it too.  You have my thanks.
Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Isaiah 43:10