Author Topic: Response to Star Stuff's question: Do Christians have to litearlly give all?  (Read 734 times)

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Offline Jag

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And here is my rule again: I read the Bible literally unless something IN THE TEXT points me to see that something is not literal. Let me list off a few general examples:
John says he sees a VISION when writing revelation (or Isaiah, Ezekiel, Daniel)
Jesus says the kingdom of heaven is LIKE so and so (the word "like" means he will be speaking in a metaphor)
The text itself clearly gives a symbolic meaning (like in Hosea)
Or when Jesus is teaching people and gives what is almost certainly a figurative statement : "Chop off your hand if it causes you to sin" and then later when He encounters sinners He doesn't have them literally do this or when He says "this is my body" as He gives them bread instead of a piece of His flesh.

Is this anything that a highschool Literature teacher would not expect from her students when reading, say, an autobiography. The genre is nonfiction and yet the author may use figurative language and the student can reasonably learn to distinguish figurative language from plain statements.

So we ARE going to have to do this the hard way. So be it.

Let's start with Genesis - which parts are literal and which are metaphorical? We've got a lot to cover so feel free to explain the whole book (details for clarity please) if you have time. Ill be at work for a couple of hours, then in my car for a couple more - I'll check back this afternoon.
My tolerance for BS is limited, and I use up most of it IRL.

Offline jdawg70

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The text itself clearly gives a symbolic meaning (like in Hosea)
Or when Jesus is teaching people and gives what is almost certainly a figurative statement : "Chop off your hand if it causes you to sin" and then later when He encounters sinners He doesn't have them literally do this or when He says "this is my body" as He gives them bread instead of a piece of His flesh.

Is this anything that a highschool Literature teacher would not expect from her students when reading, say, an autobiography. The genre is nonfiction and yet the author may use figurative language and the student can reasonably learn to distinguish figurative language from plain statements.
Explain why the death and resurrection of the son of god should not be taken as a symbolic representation of god's love, and should be taken as an actual event.
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."
- Eddie Izzard

Online Don_Quixote

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This shall be fun.

And what about the Flood, the whole Genesis and creation.

Offline Star Stuff

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And what about the Flood, the whole Genesis and creation?




God is an Imaginary Friend for Grown-ups

Offline Jag

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Sigh.

It's just after 9pm here - he's not going to answer me, is he?  :(
My tolerance for BS is limited, and I use up most of it IRL.

Offline Nam

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Sigh.

It's just after 9pm here - he's not going to answer me, is he?  :(

If he did it just be circular reasoning, or you're illiterate. See, only True™ Christians like him know how to read the Bible but then again he may agree with you (like he did with me, somewhat) and then start the whole discussion again.

I gave him the benefit of thinking he may have been open to debate which is why I initially was kind to him. I was wrong, and so will you be.

-Nam
A god is like a rock: it does absolutely nothing until someone or something forces it to do something. The only capability the rock has is doing nothing until another force compels it physically to move.

The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously - Humphrey

Offline Jesuis

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If he did it just be circular reasoning, or you're illiterate.

-Nam
The bible was not written for the common folk. It was written for the educated class who read literally and interpret accordingly. When the educated were challenged on their interpretation the dodge the question, behead the questioner or have them done for blasphemy.

Apparently illiterate people cannot debate with the educated on the literal translation.
The atheists - ie those who did not know God were trained to read a book and were sent out there with the book to preach because they were educated literally.
According to Theists: Theists know God, Atheists don't.

Offline Jesuis

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Let's start with Genesis - which parts are literal?
Genesis 1 vs 29,
According to Theists: Theists know God, Atheists don't.

Offline Nam

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The bible was not written for the common folk.

It was written by the common folk but not for the common folk.

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It was written for the educated class who read literally and interpret accordingly.

They wrote figuratively but then read it literally.

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When the educated were challenged on their interpretation the dodge the question, behead the questioner or have them done for blasphemy.

Because they were criminals and liars spreading their beliefs with war, famine, propaganda, rape, theft, etc., and then feigning innocence -- as all conquerors do.

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Apparently illiterate people cannot debate with the educated on the literal translation.
The atheists - ie those who did not know God were trained to read a book and were sent out there with the book to preach because they were educated literally.

Nonsense spewed by nonsense.

-Nam
A god is like a rock: it does absolutely nothing until someone or something forces it to do something. The only capability the rock has is doing nothing until another force compels it physically to move.

The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously - Humphrey

Offline YRM_DM

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I think this website has to be concerned with reading the Bible and other religious texts correctly because the WWGHA argument would otherwise be a straw man if it misattributed certain beliefs about God to people who don't actually believe that.

Therefore the Bible at least to that extent is evidence.  It is the source/foundation of people's operating beliefs.

I'll agree I can't prove the Bible with the Bible but I can give insight into what a lot of theists believe by using the Bible. The other member asked a question to theists and I clarified what I, and theist, thinks. If you don't listen and try to understand then all you are doing is beating the straw man.

1 - Since you won't even entertain the idea that god doesn't exist, you build your defenses of the bible from the top down, using the loosest connections and justifications to get you back to the top down idea that the christian god exists and is the only true god.

2 - The bible promises in a dozen places that god answers prayers yet there is no statistical evidence that god answers prayers of any kind, that's why the site is called "why won't god heal amputees?".  As soon as there's a prayer that can't be answered through coincidence, the same as it'd 'be answered' for any non-believer who didn't pray, then it is never answered.

So god promises to answer prayers but... "won't if our hearts aren't right with god" and since "everyone falls short of the glory of god" then there's a built in excuse for answering ZERO prayer!  Yay!  Biblical promises come through again.

3 - Christians brag that they have faith and fear god... yet when they make a promise that the Bible makes out to be fairly important, like marriage, they don't keep it.  They don't even try to keep it.   Atheists have much lower divorce rates than Christians, who then go on to say that they own the true definition of marriage.   When christian women want out of a marriage, the bible is so contradictory they easily find biblical support.    "There's no cause for divorce except in cases of adultery"  and "Jesus said, if you've even thought about another person lustfully, you've committed adultery in your heart"   Yay.  Therefore 100% of all christian divorces are totally justified!   That's reasonable!  Yay!  Biblical promises come through again.

Everything about Christianity is this... "We promise all kinds of crap until you really need us to come through, then we don't at all!  Yay!"

So given that prayer is never answered, and Christians rarely keep their promises to god, why should anyone believe the Bible at all?


You can't spell BELIEVE without LIE...  and a few other letters.  B and E and V and I think E.