Author Topic: Can You Prove My God's Not Real?  (Read 1382 times)

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Offline YRM_DM

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Re: Can You Prove My God's Not Real?
« Reply #145 on: July 17, 2014, 08:53:17 AM »
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Please take this bit of info to your believing friends then ok?

    - If someone has a horribly disabled child, it's hurtful to suggest that it's all part of god's plan, or everything happens for a reason.


(from JST) -> I have tried.  The fact is these things are due to an absence of God in the world in general.  They are a result of living in a world that exists seperate from God's will, not because they are God's will.

The fact is these things are due to an absence of God in the world in general.

The fact is these things are due to an absence of God in the world in general.

The fact is these things are due to an absence of God in the world in general.

See?  The all powerful, all good, all mighty, all loving creator of the universe is absent... because he is imaginary.

It's not because we're all such worthless dirtbags that he crys for us but just couldn't help us because we failed an experiment he set up that he already knew the outcome of...  it's because god is imaginary.

If god was not imaginary, and he was as described in the bible, he would not be absent from the world.
You can't spell BELIEVE without LIE...  and a few other letters.  B and E and V and I think E.

Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: Can You Prove My God's Not Real?
« Reply #146 on: July 17, 2014, 09:19:53 AM »
But, can't you see what's going on here if you read between the lines?

You do not believe in the other religions and then you (falsely) assume that Christianity is "just like any other ol' religion" and toss it aside as well.

but, Christianity is not "just another religion." It is The Truth.

I've been told the same thing by muslims. Any suggestions as to how I should decide which is right?

It is the Truth to you. You consider that universal. But, like so many who call themselves christians, you've picked and chosen the aspects of religion that you like, rejected the rest, and then gone on a metaphorical rampage, insisting that you, the most qualified of all humans, has it right, and for anyone to consider any other possibility is to surrender to the demons.

Luckily, the version of god you've chosen doesn't have a commandment against ego trips.

I question things every day. I wonder where I've chosen right and where my biases are and how wrong I am on various things, religious or otherwise. While I've made up my mind about Dick Cheney and a few other givens, for the most part I am willing to reconsider my stance on a variety of social and scientific issues as I get more information about reality.

What I am not going to succumb to is a person who walks up to me and say he has it all right. That he knows the Truth and can share it. That he has it right and that there is no need to look elsewhere.

I have rejected religion because no matter how hard I look at it, no matter which philosophy or version or sect I look in to, I see people who require righteousness and people who fear fear and people who demand to be followed. I do not see humanity, I do not see humility, I do not see flexibility, I do not see compassion of the sort that is actually useful to other humans. I see selfishness personified, I see demands, I see egocentric bullshit, I see false answers by the ton, I see harsh judgments, I see sorrow.

Of course your religion is the Truth. You have to look at it that way or it won't work for you. You need that first lie. It is the basis for every other lie you tell yourself about your beliefs. Were you to question it in any way, it would crumble like the ancient walls of so-called holy cities.

I hope for ultimate truths, not conjured ones. I understand that in my lifetime I will never have enough accurate information about anything major to declare I know or have the truth. I have partial truths. I know some things about relativity and evolution and gravity and radio wave dispersal. I have partial truths regarding the efficacy of capitalism and communism and hippie communes. I know some stuff about politics and relationships and friendships and children. But I have no truths that have capital T's. And I wouldn't want any. Because that would mean I was lying to myself. That would mean I want my world to be smaller than it actually is. That would mean that I'd quit valuing everything else. That would mean that I'd given up and decided to live in a world of pretense.

Keep your truth. It is not transferrable. It lacks the necessary legitimacy. All you can hope to do with it is infect others with sorry assed notions about non-existent ultimates, and each and every one of those folks would customize their own "Truth" up the ying-yang.

I don't need the grief. I'm too curious. And I care about the quality of all answers.
Jesus, the cracker flavored treat!

Offline YRM_DM

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Re: Can You Prove My God's Not Real?
« Reply #147 on: July 17, 2014, 10:17:15 AM »
ParkingPlaces... are you saying you don't think Santa created the universe?   I made such good arguments.
You can't spell BELIEVE without LIE...  and a few other letters.  B and E and V and I think E.

Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: Can You Prove My God's Not Real?
« Reply #148 on: July 17, 2014, 10:33:12 AM »
ParkingPlaces... are you saying you don't think Santa created the universe?   I made such good arguments.

As usual, a good argument seldom has room for the truth. You came close though. You got the universe part right.

Don't feel bad though. Eventually this will be a meme on twitter and you'll be famous!

To be honest, I do believe in Santa, but my Santa is a demon.
Jesus, the cracker flavored treat!

Offline YRM_DM

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Re: Can You Prove My God's Not Real?
« Reply #149 on: July 17, 2014, 11:37:30 AM »
ParkingPlaces... are you saying you don't think Santa created the universe?   I made such good arguments.

As usual, a good argument seldom has room for the truth. You came close though. You got the universe part right.

Don't feel bad though. Eventually this will be a meme on twitter and you'll be famous!

To be honest, I do believe in Santa, but my Santa is a demon.

I wish I knew one of the atheist YouTube personalities... I'd dress up in a suit and debate them with the arguments in this thread, in all seriousness, using exactly the same treatments as guys like Ken Hamm or other apologists.

When the atheist says "i don't know"  I'd hold up a book on Santa, showing him magically doing something, or a you-tube clip of Santa creating chimneys out of nothing, and say, "I've got a book right here that tells me!  My opponent, by his/her own admission, doesn't HAVE any truth...  now who do you believe?  A guy who isn't sure he's not a brain in a jar, or a guy who says Santa is REAL and he's here to SAVE YOU from the Naughty List."

They could post it along side the "atheist vs christian" and "atheist vs islam" debates, and my arguments for Santa would mirror all the religious arguments.

I'm already ready with things like, "We can't understand Santa's will, we're just people" and "Santa works in mysterious ways" and "Everything happens according to Santa's will" and "Santa never gives people more than they can handle"

You can't spell BELIEVE without LIE...  and a few other letters.  B and E and V and I think E.

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Can You Prove My God's Not Real?
« Reply #150 on: July 17, 2014, 03:27:41 PM »
Back to the healed doggie, skeptic.

You prayed and a sick dog got well. That is powerful proof of the existence of the god you prayed to. That is your argument, right?

If you pray and the sick dog dies, isn't that equally powerful proof that the god you prayed to does not exist? If not, explain your logic. I asked you this before and you did not answer coherently.

Also, wouldn't bloody words on a wall be just as likely to be a demon as a god? How could you tell the difference?

That wouldn't be proof that God doesn't exist because we understand that God sometimes says no. Nobody expects every single prayer to be answered. If they do, they are sorely mistaken.

By your logic, then, every god that anyone has ever believed in also exists, including Athena, Anacaona, Papa Legba, Shango, Yemaya, and Xenu, the god of Scientology. Because, when Muslims pray to Allah or Hindus pray to Brahma or the ancient Aztecs sacrificed some slaves to the god of war, their gods sometimes said yes, just like yours did when he saved the dog. Sometimes they got what they asked for. So their gods were real, too.

When they did not get what they asked for, it did not mean that their god did not exist, and their beliefs were stories made up by human beings and their faith was unfounded. Not at all. It just meant that Allah, Brahma or the god of war said no. Nobody expects every single prayer to be answered. If they do, they are sorely mistaken.

Very logical, as long as you accept that every single other god is as real as yours is.

Including Santa.  ;)

I don't mean to sound rude, but I feel like you guys aren't listening to me when I talk.

of course those people of other religions had prayers answered. But, they were answered by demons in order to keep them in those religions.

So, your argument simply doesn't work.

You were not being rude, and I am listening to you. But your logic does not hold up to basic scrutiny. If your god is really that good and really that powerful, why does he let all these other beings--evil, horrible beings, according to you-- run around fooling people into following them, letting them pretend to be him, healing people's illnesses and finding them jobs?

Basically, judging from the answered prayers, people have no way of knowing if their prayer was answered by your god, by a different god, by a demon, by a powerful alien from outer space, or by a random coincidence that happened after they prayed.  Demons and gods other than yours are as good at answering prayers as random coincidence. All have exactly the same rate of answering prayers. So, your god must be a pretty modest guy, willing to hide and get lost in the crowd like that.

You are even willing to admit that false gods or demons will do good things for people: heal their baby from cancer, help their dad stop drinking, find them an appropriate spouse, win the football game, make a sick doggie well.

If that is true, then why does your god allow that to happen? Why would your god allow the Hindu, Shinto, Sikh or Muslim gods to answer prayers and trick millions of people into believing in them? Where else would these other gods and demons get their power to answer prayers from, if not from the one true god?

Also, for tens of thousands of years, native people all over the world worshiped their demon gods and got their prayers answered by them. Only in the past 2000 years have missionaries brought Christianity. So, somehow, demons managed to get to people everywhere before the true god did. Demons had thousands of years head start on your god, and could get completely well-entrenched in the local cultures. The demons did not even need books, literacy or missionaries.

What was god waiting all that time for? Didn't he know that, by letting the demons get there first, many people would never voluntarily accept a strange new religion brought in by foreigners?

BTW, we have at least two theists on this board who disagree with you and say that false gods or demons cannot produce good outcomes. Prayers to them can not be answered positively. "By their fruits ye shall know them" and all that. They have no explanation of how prayers to Allah or Brahma get answered positively at the same rate as prayers to the Christian god. They may have to fall back on the "everyone is actually worshiping my god, even if they don't know it." Some Muslims try that one, when cornered by this argument.

Then, finally, there is the fact that there are some prayers that are never ever answered by any god, demon or coincidence. Like missing arms growing back, senile dementia reversing, conjoined twins spontaneously separating or severed spinal cords regenerating. No god or demon has the power to do any of those things. So far.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2014, 03:32:03 PM by nogodsforme »
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline jdawg70

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Re: Can You Prove My God's Not Real?
« Reply #151 on: July 17, 2014, 04:14:51 PM »
You are even willing to admit that false gods or demons will do good things for people: heal their baby from cancer, help their dad stop drinking, find them an appropriate spouse, win the football game, make a sick doggie well.

skeptic54768, when responding to this, I want you to keep this in mind:
That is a false view. Satan masquerades as an angel of light. He'll be very nice to you if you're worshiping him. He will make you think you are worshiping God. He will give you things and you will think it's God giving them to you. He'll be your best pal, your best buddy....until the End Times when he will just laugh at you.
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Offline YRM_DM

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Re: Can You Prove My God's Not Real?
« Reply #152 on: July 18, 2014, 09:19:33 AM »
You are even willing to admit that false gods or demons will do good things for people: heal their baby from cancer, help their dad stop drinking, find them an appropriate spouse, win the football game, make a sick doggie well.

skeptic54768, when responding to this, I want you to keep this in mind:
That is a false view. Satan masquerades as an angel of light. He'll be very nice to you if you're worshiping him. He will make you think you are worshiping God. He will give you things and you will think it's God giving them to you. He'll be your best pal, your best buddy....until the End Times when he will just laugh at you.

That's right, and if Skeptic comes around to realize that he's been worshiping Satan this whole time, he should turn to Satan's arch nemisis... Santa!   It's just one letter different.  Santa vs Satan

Dana Carvey said it best on Saturday Night Live...   "Could it be... hrmmmm...  SATAN!"
You can't spell BELIEVE without LIE...  and a few other letters.  B and E and V and I think E.