Not only is this
http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/topic,26811.msg621278.html#msg621278 a contender for the “Most Nested Post 2014
[1]” prize but it is a good example of the Christian belief in magic spells:
12 Monkeys: You see the problem here guys, any theist you point out who uses the scripture incorrectly according to JSW is not really a Christian at all, they are under influence of the Devil. It's an easy out for all the evil anybody has ever done in the name of God
Jstwebbrowsing: You must love your neighbor as yourself. I can't imagine how you could interpret that incorrectly and this effectively abolishes slavery among those that follow it. If someone doesn't follow it does that mean they've interpreted it incorrectly or does it mean they don't follow it at all? If one Christian kills another Christian have they misinterpreted the scriptures or have they just refused to obey them? "By their fruits you will know them"[2], not by their interpretations.
12 Monkeys: I am the great JST, and my interpretation is the correct one BECAUSE I SAY SO…
JSW: Ad hominem. You can't imagine how to incorrectly interpret it either, can you? It's pretty black and white isn't it?
12 Monkeys: That’s why there is 40,000 denominations right? 39,999 denominations have it wrong and the one denomination JST belongs to has it right.
JSW: More ad hominem.
12 Monkeys: is the statement wrong?
JSW: That's not for me to tell you. "If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true." (Jn 5:31)[/color]
Magic requires no logic, in fact, Magic, is the antithesis of logic Magic and logic are the same thing to religion and superstition but are placed under the heading of “Our Deity’s Power and Promises.”
This is a characteristic of Black Magic, Paganism, all other religions
[3] and superstitions: say the words in the name of your deity or philosophy and they will have the desired effect
[4].
Now, Jstwebbrowsing, probably unconsciously, is using a magic spell: he apparently does not have an opinion on his own statement. However, the only possibilities I can see are
(i) He knows it to be false and is being evasive
[5],
(ii) He knows it to be true and is being evasive
[6],
(iii) He is not bothered whether it is true or false:
His statement does the job but only when supported by a magic spell.And what is the magic spell? Well there are two of them:
(a) "By their fruits you will know them"
(b) "If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true."
How do we know (a) and (b) are magic spells? Try changing them to “Abracadabra!” and they still make sense (well, as much sense, by way of supporting argument) as they ever did.)
The first one is irrelevant because to me, “their fruits” would also include their interpretations, i.e. what they give forth.
The second one contains quite remarkable logic:
“If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true." This is allegedly a quote by Jesus.
In John 5:13, we see that Jesus is making this statement about himself and is saying that statements about himself
that are made by him are false.
The logic is trapped in a vicious circle which runs:
Jesus: “If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true."
WWGHA: Does that mean that “If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true." is untrue?
However, logical or not, “the word of <insert favourite deity> is used as spells to defeat the person who does not agree with you personally: “God said this therefore it is true and you are wrong.” This is based upon presupposing (i) there is such a thing as Magic and (ii) there is an infallible god.
