Author Topic: Does God exists as a separate entity - separate from human brains?  (Read 60863 times)

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Online jdawg70

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Re: Does God exists as a separate entity - separate from human brains?
« Reply #377 on: July 01, 2014, 07:35:43 PM »
Lukvance, how can the priests determine for sure if a phenomenon is god's doing or not, if god operates on a different plane that cannot be detected by any physical means?
That is what you think. They (and I) disagree with you. They determine if it's from God by following very strict rules, you should ask one of them about it.
any proof for this statement?


Oh!  Oh!  I know!

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Offline jaimehlers

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Re: Does God exists as a separate entity - separate from human brains?
« Reply #378 on: July 01, 2014, 10:33:00 PM »
I hope more than you :)
I ask for an honest answer and I get a platitude, and not even a very interesting one.

By the way, seeing as you totally ignored my support for my arguments - which were accurate paraphrases of what you've been saying all along - I see no reason to prolong this discussion any further.  If you aren't even willing to be honest enough to recognize your own faults when they're clearly presented to you, and if your response when asked what you think you've accomplished is a pointless statement about how you hope it was more than me, then I have no further interest in discussing anything else with you.

Frankly, I hope you get sent to the Emergency Room sub-forum, and soon - maybe once you have no choice but to actually address what other people are actually saying rather than using every bit of spin you can to try to turn it into what you want to talk about, you'll realize just how pointless and futile your method of 'discussion' truly is.
Nullus In Verba, aka "Take nobody's word for it!"  If you can't show it, then you don't know it.

Offline eh!

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Re: Does God exists as a separate entity - separate from human brains?
« Reply #379 on: July 01, 2014, 11:09:33 PM »
Dig deep enough and the only proof theists have got are the voices in their heads.
some skepisms,
1. "I have not seen God. I have felt the invisible presence"
2. What if there is a rock in the middle of a road, a blind person is speeding towards it, ...they say that they can't see it.   Would you recommend him to keep speeding?

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Does God exists as a separate entity - separate from human brains?
« Reply #380 on: July 02, 2014, 10:51:23 AM »
Lukvance, how can the priests determine for sure if a phenomenon is god's doing or not, if god operates on a different plane that cannot be detected by any physical means?
That is what you think. They (and I) disagree with you. They determine if it's from God by following very strict rules, you should ask one of them about it.

I asked how then the priests are able to tell that a healing was performed by god, if god cannot be detected, and is operating on a different plane of existence.  You did not answer the question.

You have stated many, many times that god is immaterial and cannot be detected by physical means, such as by using scientific instruments, measuring radiation, etc. You also told us that god is operating on a different plane of existence. Where exactly does god's plane of existence intersect with our human plane of existence? Wouldn't that intersection cause some kind of change in our physical reality and have to be detectable somehow?

You have also told us that the scientific way to determine that a healing was due to god was to eliminate all possible known ways that the hand could be healed. The only thing left would have to be your god.

But no. Your god is not the only thing left. Remember the cause of the healing is unknown. So, there are all kinds of possibilities besides your god. Other gods, for example. Or demons pretending to be your god. Or a mutation in the woman's genetic makeup that medical science cannot locate.

Unless you are now saying that your god can be detected and specifically identified by physical means? That is the opposite of what you have been telling us several weeks now.

The process of eliminating all possible known ways that the hand could be healed could also end up pointing to a shy benevolent alien being. How do the priests know for sure that the healing was not performed by a shy benevolent alien pretending to be god?
When all of Cinderella's finery changed back at midnight, why didn't the shoes disappear? What's up with that?

Offline Lukvance

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Re: Does God exists as a separate entity - separate from human brains?
« Reply #381 on: July 02, 2014, 11:44:09 AM »
I asked how then the priests are able to tell that a healing was performed by god, if god cannot be detected, and is operating on a different plane of existence.  You did not answer the question.
Yes I did : [...]They determine if it's from God by following very strict rules,

Lukvance,
You did not answer at all and I and other Mods are tired of your dodging the question.

You were asked how the priests know it is God and not something else.

The miracle is declared when "no other cause" can be found.

However, the only option is then "The Christian god did it."

________________________________________________________

How do we know that the unknown cause was not Thor or Zeus?

This is the question for you to answer.

GB Mod

PS
Quote
you should ask one of them about it.
That remark was unnecessary.

1. If you do not know, then you should say, "I do not know."

2. As far as I am aware, there are no Catholic Priests who are members of the site.

« Last Edit: July 02, 2014, 04:51:36 PM by Graybeard »
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Offline median

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Re: Does God exists as a separate entity - separate from human brains?
« Reply #382 on: July 02, 2014, 11:48:42 AM »
Would you believe a group of Scientologists (or astrologers) who claim to be "more versed" than you?
Yes.

Remember, we are comparing apples to apples here. So (just like your Catholic "experts" want us to believe that these cases are in fact miracles from Yahweh) you would actually believe (if told by Scientologist "experts") that their claims validate their religion as true?? Is this what you are saying - because this sounds exactly like the implication you just made.

Quote
But notice how they don't conclude it's Allah, or Mithra, or Osiris, or Zeus, or Odin?
Yes

And why is that? Why don't these alleged "experts" on miracles conclude that a different deity than the one they personally believe in did it?

Quote
Just because I (or they) claim that they are experts does that mean their conclusions are true?
If it fits the scientific method then yes.

The scientific method cannot investigate claims to the supernatural. So you've just contradicted yourself. There is no way to independently verify if any one of the thousands of proposed "gods" was the actual cause of an unexplained occurrence. If you think so, then please demonstrate how exactly that would be done (without using an irrational argument from ignorance fallacy). 
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Carl Sagan

Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: Does God exists as a separate entity - separate from human brains?
« Reply #383 on: July 02, 2014, 11:50:00 AM »
Just keep making shit up Luk,tell us are these dimensions like your God,scientifically undetectable?
There's no right there's no wrong,there's just popular opinion (Brad Pitt as Jeffery Goines in 12 monkeys)

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Does God exists as a separate entity - separate from human brains?
« Reply #384 on: July 02, 2014, 11:57:46 AM »
Lukvance, you still have not answered my questions. Let's try them one at a time.

How can anyone tell that it was your specific god did a healing, and that is was not an alien being with healing powers, pretending to be your specific god. What would be the difference? How would a person detect the difference? Remember, the alien is very powerful and knows how to masquerade as a god.
When all of Cinderella's finery changed back at midnight, why didn't the shoes disappear? What's up with that?

Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: Does God exists as a separate entity - separate from human brains?
« Reply #385 on: July 02, 2014, 12:08:55 PM »
Lukvance, you still have not answered my questions. Let's try them one at a time.

How can anyone tell that it was your specific god did a healing, and that is was not an alien being with healing powers, pretending to be your specific god. What would be the difference? How would a person detect the difference? Remember, the alien is very powerful and knows how to masquerade as a god.
your starting to sound like Skeptic,just put Demon in place of alien,,,BAM,skeptic
There's no right there's no wrong,there's just popular opinion (Brad Pitt as Jeffery Goines in 12 monkeys)

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Does God exists as a separate entity - separate from human brains?
« Reply #386 on: July 02, 2014, 12:18:20 PM »
Lukvance, you still have not answered my questions. Let's try them one at a time.

How can anyone tell that it was your specific god did a healing, and that is was not an alien being with healing powers, pretending to be your specific god. What would be the difference? How would a person detect the difference? Remember, the alien is very powerful and knows how to masquerade as a god.
your starting to sound like Skeptic,just put Demon in place of alien,,,BAM,skeptic

Exactly.
When all of Cinderella's finery changed back at midnight, why didn't the shoes disappear? What's up with that?

Offline median

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Re: Does God exists as a separate entity - separate from human brains?
« Reply #387 on: July 02, 2014, 12:24:18 PM »
They determine if it's from God by following very strict rules, you should ask one of them about it.

This sounds like a cop out. Would you mind actually presenting those "strict rules"? From what I have seen so far their "rules" amount to nothing but a God of the Gaps fallacy (an argument from ignorance). Whenever they personally cannot explain something (which means they actually don't know what happened) they then ASSERT that it must have been their alleged "Yahweh" that did it (just like the lady in that video you posted said). She appealed to an argument from ignorance. So, as it turns out, your alleged "experts" are not experts at all. So that is yet another fallacy (argumentum ad vericundium - appeal to authority).

Now, do you have anything related to the scientific method I submitted?
I believe it is proof of the existence of God using the proceeding you accept as proof of something being real.
I don't find any difference between the findings of things related to the Higgs Boson and Miracles.
Both are theorized before the experiment.
Both are "discovered" by their interaction with our environment.
Both have an experiment that can be reproduced over and over and have the same result.

The reason you don't find any difference is likely because you do not understand how science works and what counts as science. Below is an article from the Smithsonian on the Higgs-Boson and the LHC. There you will find that the HB was predicted since the 60s and was confirmed by observation, confirmation by independent verification, and large amounts of explanatory tools like mathematics and professional physics papers giving intricate details (not arguments from ignorance). This is absolutely nothing like your alleged "miracle experts" who merely assert the supernatural when they don't have an explanation. So you have presented a false-analogy (another fallacy).

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/how-the-higgs-boson-was-found-4723520/?no-ist=&page=1
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Carl Sagan

Offline Graybeard

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Re: Does God exists as a separate entity - separate from human brains?
« Reply #388 on: July 02, 2014, 04:53:14 PM »
Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

Offline eh!

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Re: Does God exists as a separate entity - separate from human brains?
« Reply #389 on: July 02, 2014, 05:05:51 PM »
Guys your being a bit harsh. luk has answered the question several times;


They followed very strict rules


same way they found the higgs particle




they are well versed in such matters



priests prayed to god


god told priests it was a miracle




etc


what more do you people want??
some skepisms,
1. "I have not seen God. I have felt the invisible presence"
2. What if there is a rock in the middle of a road, a blind person is speeding towards it, ...they say that they can't see it.   Would you recommend him to keep speeding?

Offline Lukvance

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Re: Does God exists as a separate entity - separate from human brains?
« Reply #390 on: July 02, 2014, 05:09:49 PM »
Lukvance,
Please address the question at http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/topic,26874.msg621948.html#msg621948
Thank you
GB Mod

The question is :
" how the priests know it is God and not something else?"
The answer :
"By following a very strict set of rules" (Reply #375)

I really don't know what is missing? Maybe you want to know what are those rules? then
"ask a priest about it"  is the answer to your question.(Reply #375) I don't know all the rules I am not an expert in miracles that is why I directed you to one of the priest.
THIS WAS NOT AN UNNECESSARY ANSWER.

Now, can we go back on debunking the scientific method presented to you?
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Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Does God exists as a separate entity - separate from human brains?
« Reply #391 on: July 02, 2014, 05:20:32 PM »
Lukvance,
Please address the question at http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/topic,26874.msg621948.html#msg621948
Thank you
GB Mod

The question is :
" how the priests know it is God and not something else?"
The answer :
"By following a very strict set of rules" (Reply #375)

I really don't know what is missing? Maybe you want to know what are those rules? then
"ask a priest about it"  is the answer to your question.(Reply #375) I don't know all the rules I am not an expert in miracles that is why I directed you to one of the priest.
THIS WAS NOT AN UNNECESSARY ANSWER.

Now, can we go back on debunking the scientific method presented to you?

Lukvance, I think that is the first honest response we have gotten from you in many, many posts here. We might be finally making some progress.  You really don't know how the priests can tell it is god who did the miracle. You trust that the priests know, somehow, even though, as you have stated many times, there is no way to tell what healed the hand, or how it was done.

Yet, the priests think they can tell for certain that it was the god they believe in, and not Satan pretending to be a good guy to fool them, or a different good god that knows how to heal hands, or a good alien being that can heal hands, or a mutation in the woman's blood that healed her hand. They have some special way of telling the difference.

Now here is the hard part, Lukvance:

What if the priests don't really know the difference, either?
When all of Cinderella's finery changed back at midnight, why didn't the shoes disappear? What's up with that?

Offline median

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Re: Does God exists as a separate entity - separate from human brains?
« Reply #392 on: July 02, 2014, 05:21:58 PM »
The question is :
" how the priests know it is God and not something else?"
The answer :
"By following a very strict set of rules" (Reply #375)

I really don't know what is missing? Maybe you want to know what are those rules? then
"ask a priest about it"  is the answer to your question.(Reply #375) I don't know all the rules I am not an expert in miracles that is why I directed you to one of the priest.
THIS WAS NOT AN UNNECESSARY ANSWER.

Now, can we go back on debunking the scientific method presented to you?

You attempted to draw an analogy between so-called "priest experts", who make claims about miracles, and physicists demonstrating the Higgs-Boson (which have explanatory power, detail of how it was discovered including math and physics, and successful and reliable predictions). And I rebutted your assertion above. You are drawing a false analogy because the paths to knowledge are completely different. One is making an argument from ignorance fallacy and the other is not (among other things). Your claimed people are not experts on "miracles" anymore than children are experts on Santa Claus. So again you are appealing to an authority that is not a real authority (argumentum ad vericundium). If you disagree then start actually demonstrating that you understand both the arguments being made by your own "authorities" and the science that is being done regarding the LHC and HB.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Carl Sagan

Offline eh!

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Re: Does God exists as a separate entity - separate from human brains?
« Reply #393 on: July 02, 2014, 05:30:17 PM »
Contact details of priests, i will contact them.

published method and results please we can all analyse them and grow together.
some skepisms,
1. "I have not seen God. I have felt the invisible presence"
2. What if there is a rock in the middle of a road, a blind person is speeding towards it, ...they say that they can't see it.   Would you recommend him to keep speeding?

Offline Lukvance

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Re: Does God exists as a separate entity - separate from human brains?
« Reply #394 on: July 02, 2014, 05:32:48 PM »
So (just like your Catholic "experts" want us to believe that these cases are in fact miracles from Yahweh) you would actually believe (if told by Scientologist "experts") that their claims validate their religion as true?? Is this what you are saying - because this sounds exactly like the implication you just made.
I'm not sure I follow where you want to go with that line of question. If I asked a Scientologist expert about Scientology, I will believe his answer.
If a Scientologist expert tells me that a miracle (recognized by the church) is not really one, I won't believe him. That is not what he is expert in.
If that does not answer your question, please use an example so I could answer it more properly.

Quote
Why don't these alleged "experts" on miracles conclude that a different deity than the one they personally believe in did it?
They can conclude it is from another deity than the one they believe. All events are not miracles. I thought you understood that already.

Quote
There is no way to independently verify if any one of the thousands of proposed "gods" was the actual cause of an unexplained occurrence. If you think so, then please demonstrate how exactly that would be done (without using an irrational argument from ignorance fallacy).
That is what Reply #203 is about. Scientific method.
If you want to know more about how miracles are "stuff of science" I recommend you "Medical Miracles: Doctors, Saints, and Healing in the Modern World" from Jacalyn Duffin.
You have seen her testimony on Video already in this thread.
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Offline eh!

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Re: Does God exists as a separate entity - separate from human brains?
« Reply #395 on: July 02, 2014, 05:37:31 PM »
Well i am an expert in BULLSHITOLOGY i says luk is full of BS right off the charts.
some skepisms,
1. "I have not seen God. I have felt the invisible presence"
2. What if there is a rock in the middle of a road, a blind person is speeding towards it, ...they say that they can't see it.   Would you recommend him to keep speeding?

Offline Lukvance

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Re: Does God exists as a separate entity - separate from human brains?
« Reply #396 on: July 02, 2014, 05:57:54 PM »
What if the priests don't really know the difference, either?
It's like you are asking "What if your expert in molecule do not know what a molecule is?"
The answer is the same :"Find another expert"

You really don't know how the priests can tell it is god who did the miracle.
That's not true.
Let me get this straight once and for all :
"you have stated many times, there is no way to tell what healed the hand, or how it was done." Is not something I stated. It is something you keep repeating, like if you say it enough time people will forget that I never said such things. From the beginning (Reply #203) I stated that we had a hypothesis and that the result of the experiment confirmed the hypothesis. WE KNOW WHAT HEALED THE HAND!
I hope you won't make the same mistake again.

Oh and :
Lukvance, I think that is the first honest response we have gotten from you in many, many posts here. We might be finally making some progress.
Is a total lie. If Graybeard did not delete my answers you will realize that what I said in reply #390 is said since reply #375. Same honest response from the first time the question was asked.
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Offline eh!

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Re: Does God exists as a separate entity - separate from human brains?
« Reply #397 on: July 02, 2014, 06:14:57 PM »
Without a clear method just because results agree with hypothesis may just mean yr hypothesis and your method are both shit.


and no you don't just go fishing for an expert that agrees with you.
some skepisms,
1. "I have not seen God. I have felt the invisible presence"
2. What if there is a rock in the middle of a road, a blind person is speeding towards it, ...they say that they can't see it.   Would you recommend him to keep speeding?

Offline Gnu Ordure

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Re: Does God exists as a separate entity - separate from human brains?
« Reply #398 on: July 02, 2014, 06:19:40 PM »
They determine if it's from God by following very strict rules, you should ask one of them about it.

This sounds like a cop out. Would you mind actually presenting those "strict rules"? From what I have seen so far their "rules" amount to nothing but a God of the Gaps fallacy (an argument from ignorance).

This article explains the rigorous procedures involved:

Quote
”There has been talk of the Vatican having a kind of ’CIA’, which investigates alleged miracles. This may be true to a certain extent,” says Niels Christian Hvidt, an associate professor of theology at the University of Southern Denmark, who is also the director of the Danish Center for Research in Faith and Health... ...

"The miracle commission canonises saints in the Catholic Church. It’s sent out to investigate whether or not a person qualifies as a saint. Since saints are a central element of Catholicism, they need to be examined using the latest scientific methods".

To determine whether it’s really a miracle, the commission collects evidence and examines the healed person. These assessments are made in accordance with scientific methodology.

”The miracle commission consists of doctors who use the latest equipment to find an explanation to why a person has been healed,” he says.

”If, for instance, a brain tumour suddenly disappears after prayer, the doctors check the patient’s medical record and brain scans from before and after the tumour disappeared.”

A total of 80-90 physicians are affiliated with the Vatican’s miracle commission. They are all competent scientists and not all of them are necessarily Catholics.

When a potential miracle is reported to the Vatican, the report includes testimonies from astounded doctors who cannot find a natural explanation for the phenomenon in question.

The cardinals then pass these testimonies on to the miracle commission, which then sends a delegation to the location where the unexplainable event took place. If the delegates fail to find a satisfactory scientific explanation for the strange phenomenon, they can call in external experts.

“They do everything they can to find an explanation. At some point they may give up, and then the case is handed over to the Vatican’s theologians,” says the researcher.

“The theologians then examine the doctors’ testimonies for specific religious issues – e.g. trust and prayer. If such issues are present in the testimonies, they, together with the inexplicable nature of the incident, constitute the miracle.”

Could those rules be any more strict?
« Last Edit: July 02, 2014, 06:24:33 PM by Gnu Ordure »

Offline jaimehlers

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Re: Does God exists as a separate entity - separate from human brains?
« Reply #399 on: July 02, 2014, 06:30:08 PM »
No, Lukvance, the honesty was in admitting that you didn't know all the rules the priests used.  You did not include that in your earlier reply.

That's a critical point.  It means that you're simply accepting that these priests know what they're doing despite not knowing very much about it.  It also means that you have no way of checking to make sure the priests got it right; you either have to accept it or not accept it.  That is why we keep saying that this miracle-finding method of yours isn't scientific.  Science requires that other people be able to independently reproduce a set of results using the same procedures, but nobody can reproduce the results your priests came up with, because praying is entirely subjective.  There is no way to guarantee that any two people will get the same result by doing things the same way.

Now are you starting to understand why your approach isn't working?  You're talking to a bunch of skeptics and atheists and telling us that you've proved that these happenings at Lourdes are miracles because some priests prayed and consulted and stated that some of them were.  Yet we don't accept the authority of those priests to declare that.  Frankly, I doubt most non-Catholics would accept their authority to declare such a thing.
Nullus In Verba, aka "Take nobody's word for it!"  If you can't show it, then you don't know it.

Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: Does God exists as a separate entity - separate from human brains?
« Reply #400 on: July 02, 2014, 06:43:42 PM »
Isn't the " hand" thing a bible story?..... Now that Luk has established  through research of  somebody with conformation bias ( the priests) we just need God to do it again,,,,with an amputee. Much like the return of Jesus we will be waiting a fuck of a long time for that to happen
There's no right there's no wrong,there's just popular opinion (Brad Pitt as Jeffery Goines in 12 monkeys)

Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: Does God exists as a separate entity - separate from human brains?
« Reply #401 on: July 02, 2014, 06:45:35 PM »
No, Lukvance, the honesty was in admitting that you didn't know all the rules the priests used.  You did not include that in your earlier reply.

That's a critical point.  It means that you're simply accepting that these priests know what they're doing despite not knowing very much about it.  It also means that you have no way of checking to make sure the priests got it right; you either have to accept it or not accept it.  That is why we keep saying that this miracle-finding method of yours isn't scientific.  Science requires that other people be able to independently reproduce a set of results using the same procedures, but nobody can reproduce the results your priests came up with, because praying is entirely subjective.  There is no way to guarantee that any two people will get the same result by doing things the same way.

Now are you starting to understand why your approach isn't working?  You're talking to a bunch of skeptics and atheists and telling us that you've proved that these happenings at Lourdes are miracles because some priests prayed and consulted and stated that some of them were.  Yet we don't accept the authority of those priests to declare that.  Frankly, I doubt most non-Catholics would accept their authority to declare such a thing.
not to be a dick here,but the RCC has spent more time hiding kid raping priests than it ever has on science.
There's no right there's no wrong,there's just popular opinion (Brad Pitt as Jeffery Goines in 12 monkeys)

Offline Lukvance

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Re: Does God exists as a separate entity - separate from human brains?
« Reply #402 on: July 02, 2014, 06:59:12 PM »
No, Lukvance, the honesty was in admitting that you didn't know all the rules the priests used.  You did not include that in your earlier reply.
  It was implied with "ask a priest about it" instead of "ask me if you want to know".

Quote
Now are you starting to understand why your approach isn't working?  You're talking to a bunch of skeptics and atheists and telling us that you've proved that these happenings at Lourdes are miracles because some priests prayed and consulted and stated that some of them were.  Yet we don't accept the authority of those priests to declare that.  Frankly, I doubt most non-Catholics would accept their authority to declare such a thing.
That's the thing with Scientific method. You can reproduce it yourself if you want.
There are books written about the specifics of the scientific method used for miracles (the Reply #393 address that)
You can even use your own specialists!
You don't have to "accept the priests are right"

What approach isn't working? Working for who? I don't see any approach not working. Not even yours.
You're worth more than my time

Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: Does God exists as a separate entity - separate from human brains?
« Reply #403 on: July 02, 2014, 07:06:46 PM »
Everybody wins,,,except you because you need to outright lie when you are painted in a  corner
There's no right there's no wrong,there's just popular opinion (Brad Pitt as Jeffery Goines in 12 monkeys)

Offline eh!

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Re: Does God exists as a separate entity - separate from human brains?
« Reply #404 on: July 02, 2014, 07:20:32 PM »
If anyone can reproduce miracles its a wonder they haven't caught on more ....doctors meh!
some skepisms,
1. "I have not seen God. I have felt the invisible presence"
2. What if there is a rock in the middle of a road, a blind person is speeding towards it, ...they say that they can't see it.   Would you recommend him to keep speeding?

Offline jaimehlers

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Re: Does God exists as a separate entity - separate from human brains?
« Reply #405 on: July 02, 2014, 09:31:58 PM »
It was implied with "ask a priest about it" instead of "ask me if you want to know".
I'll allow that you probably thought you were implying it, but implying things doesn't work very well on the Internet even between native speakers of the same language.  Add in language issues, and you're better off not trying to imply things at all.

Quote from: Lukvance
That's the thing with Scientific method. You can reproduce it yourself if you want.
Yes, that's the point of the scientific method.  If someone does an experiment, and I know how they did it, I can reproduce that experiment to see if I get the same results.

Quote from: Lukvance
There are books written about the specifics of the scientific method used for miracles (the Reply #393 address that)
You can even use your own specialists!
You don't have to "accept the priests are right"
The problem everyone here is having is not that we can't currently explain those happenings through science.  We get that there's no known explanation.  The problem is what your church does after that.  It is not scientific for theologians of any stripe to conclude that something was (or wasn't) a "miracle from God", especially when their criteria boils down to how much trust and prayer the person who was healed engaged in as well as it being inexplicable.

Here are the problems with that approach.  First off, by only being called in to explain the "inexplicable healings", those theologians are effectively only counting the hits and aren't paying any attention at all to all the misses - that is to say, the far vaster number of people who aren't healed, or who are healed through means explainable by science.  To be scientific, they would have to consider at least a statistical sampling of all the people who visited Lourdes, regardless of whether they were healed or not, or of whether the healings had an explanation or not.  With modern-day computing, they could make a database that included all the visitors who went to Lourdes in a year, plus their relevant medical history and other details about their case, and correlate things based on that.

Second, and directly related to the first, they are only considering people who pass some threshold of "trust and prayer" and who's healings are inexplicable.  They don't check to see if other people passed that threshold and were healed through explicable means, or who weren't healed.  That really is necessary for their approach to be scientific, otherwise you run the risk of making a false correlation.  You can't just look at the people who had inexplicable healings and only then consider the ones who had a 'sufficient' amount of trust and prayer; you also have to consider all the ones who had a similar amount of trust and prayer and check to see how many of them were healed (regardless of whether they were explicable or not).

Quote from: Lukvance
What approach isn't working? Working for who? I don't see any approach not working. Not even yours.
The approach your church is taking isn't working to explain those "inexplicable healings" as miracles.  It is also not a scientific approach, because declaring that unexplained events are miraculous due to "trust and prayer" is not scientific by any stretch of the imagination.  Trust and prayer are largely subjective things; you cannot quantify or measure them to determine how much of them a person actually has, the way you can measure how much mass something has, or how much electrical charge it has.
Nullus In Verba, aka "Take nobody's word for it!"  If you can't show it, then you don't know it.