Author Topic: Does God exists as a separate entity - separate from human brains?  (Read 7501 times)

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Offline eh!

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Re: Does God exists as a separate entity - separate from human brains?
« Reply #348 on: June 28, 2014, 08:31:16 PM »
Has luk even privided medical documentation that the hand was physically and permanently and completely non functional. would be a basic expectation in miracle science.

the one horned one eyed flying purple people eater if my greatest possible being that can move trees heal hands miraclize water and exists because the higgs particle exists..... i rest my case.



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Offline Lukvance

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Re: Does God exists as a separate entity - separate from human brains?
« Reply #349 on: June 29, 2014, 03:05:54 AM »
How would you think it would happen if it was really God who did it?
An external force? Coming from where?
A sound, a light? Coming from where?
Higher temperature or excess of radiation? Caused by what?
How would you think it would happen if it was really God who did it?
If it was a "god who is outside of human beings" who healed the lady's hand, something (kindly god thoughts, godly energy, godly forces, god rays, godly heat, holy spirit molecules, whatever) would have to come from that "god who is outside of human beings" to the hand. And that godly something would have to be different from regular old nothing. You with me so far?
Ok it would have come from God. But my question was : from where? 5 cm above the hand? outer space? Where do you expect the thing you would detect coming from?
I am pushing your reasoning to it's limit, I want to prove that it doesn't make sense. Could you please answer all the question I asked?
How would you think it would happen if it was really God who did it?
An external force? Coming from where?
A sound, a light? Coming from where?
Higher temperature or excess of radiation? Caused by what?
How would you think it would happen if it was really God who did it?
I could [support my claims], but you wouldn't understand. Others have tried and you can't or won't see it.

You're worth more than my time

Offline eh!

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Re: Does God exists as a separate entity - separate from human brains?
« Reply #350 on: June 29, 2014, 03:20:08 AM »
About 3cm to the left of the nearest higgs particle.
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Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Does God exists as a separate entity - separate from human brains?
« Reply #351 on: June 29, 2014, 12:36:43 PM »
Lukvance, where is Darth Vader located? Where is Peter Pan located? Where might you find Cinderella? 

I can't say where god is located, because we have no evidence that god is even real. Remember that basic problem? Give me some evidence that god is real, and some objective, scientific ways to know where he is, and maybe then we can track him down and show where he is located. After that, we can see if we can detect any force coming from where god is to somebody who is healed.

God, if he is real, is either outside of people's minds or he is inside of people's minds--we agree on that. If god healed  the lady's hand, the whatever (force, energy, etc.) that healed would have to come from wherever god is located, either outside of people's minds, or inside their minds. If he really exists, that is.

If nothing can be detected coming from anywhere to the hand, that is,  there is not any difference between the hand before and after except the healing, you cannot say what it was that healed the hand. You cannot say it was a god, anymore than you can say it was Darth Vader, Peter Pan or Cinderella. Or the guy waiting at the bus stop down the street.[1]

You can only say that the hand was healed. And you do not know how or why or by whom. Because, by definition, you have no evidence of anything healing the hand. You only have the healed hand. That is the phenomenon you are trying to find out about.
 1. However, it is far more likely to be the guy at the bus stop who healed the lady's hand than your god. Guess why!
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline jaimehlers

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Re: Does God exists as a separate entity - separate from human brains?
« Reply #352 on: June 29, 2014, 07:46:19 PM »
Ok it would have come from God. But my question was : from where? 5 cm above the hand? outer space? Where do you expect the thing you would detect coming from?
The fact that you don't know how to answer this question - and in fact think it "doesn't make sense" to explain it as anything but your god's doing - demonstrates what her and I and others have been saying all along.  To put it simply, if your god is capable of interacting with physical reality, then physical reality will respond to his actions in some detectable and predictable way.  Your response is to simply assume that even though you don't know what to look for, your god is the best explanation, but you ultimately have no idea what actually caused those people to heal, assuming anything did.  The fact that scientists don't know just means that scientists don't know.

Quote from: Lukvance
I am pushing your reasoning to it's limit, I want to prove that it doesn't make sense. Could you please answer all the question I asked?
I think the only thing you're going to 'prove' is that you really don't understand this subject well enough to lecture other people on what does or doesn't make sense.

Quote from: Lukvance
How would you think it would happen if it was really God who did it?
Asking other people what they would expect to see or what they think would happen prejudices the whole thing.  You're the one saying it's God, now you get to figure out how to show that it is him to the skeptics and atheists here.

Quote from: Lukvance
An external force? Coming from where?
A sound, a light? Coming from where?
Higher temperature or excess of radiation? Caused by what?
That's your problem to figure out.  Saying "it's God who did it" when you don't have a single thing to point to that actually demonstrates 'God' to other people is irresponsible, intellectually dishonest, and just plain lazy.

Offline median

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Re: Does God exists as a separate entity - separate from human brains?
« Reply #353 on: June 30, 2014, 02:54:42 AM »
How would you think it would happen if it was really God who did it?
An external force? Coming from where?
A sound, a light? Coming from where?
Higher temperature or excess of radiation? Caused by what?
How would you think it would happen if it was really God who did it?
If it was a "god who is outside of human beings" who healed the lady's hand, something (kindly god thoughts, godly energy, godly forces, god rays, godly heat, holy spirit molecules, whatever) would have to come from that "god who is outside of human beings" to the hand. And that godly something would have to be different from regular old nothing. You with me so far?
Ok it would have come from God. But my question was : from where? 5 cm above the hand? outer space? Where do you expect the thing you would detect coming from?
I am pushing your reasoning to it's limit, I want to prove that it doesn't make sense. Could you please answer all the question I asked?
How would you think it would happen if it was really God who did it?
An external force? Coming from where?
A sound, a light? Coming from where?
Higher temperature or excess of radiation? Caused by what?
How would you think it would happen if it was really God who did it?

This is like asking, "How do you think experiencing a magic unicorn from outer space would feel like?" The question makes no sense whatsoever since you have no "God" by which to compare any independently verifiable experiences. It's all just hear-say based on your theological assumptions. Since you haven't demonstrated that you, or anyone else, has had an actual "experience with God" (let alone even defined that term in any coherent way) the question is meaningless. You simply cannot rightly assert that a "God" thing is a sufficient explanation for someone getting better from cancer (or any other such phenomena). Since you haven't eliminated the other possibilities (and since "God did it" does no explaining at all) it is irrational to make such an assertion. It would be like finding my car being broken into and saying, "Hey look! My car was broken into! I had a dream last night of a fire breathing dragon. He must have done it!" Your assertion of a god doing the healing is just a placeholder for your own personal ignorance. There is a word for that you know:

CREDULITY
« Last Edit: June 30, 2014, 03:36:32 AM by median »
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Carl Sagan

Offline eh!

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Re: Does God exists as a separate entity - separate from human brains?
« Reply #354 on: June 30, 2014, 03:10:18 AM »
Next time i get a tough exam question i am just gonna write...."well lecturer how would you do it. tell me what you would write and if it is correct then that's my answer"
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Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Does God exists as a separate entity - separate from human brains?
« Reply #355 on: June 30, 2014, 03:51:46 PM »
Next time i get a tough exam question i am just gonna write...."well lecturer how would you do it. tell me what you would write and if it is correct then that's my answer"

I know, right? Lukvance is the god expert here. How can he expect me to tell him how god heals an injured hand?

All I know is that if any healing of the hand is from god, it has to come from god to the hand somehow. If something is coming from god to the hand, that something will be detectable. If that something is not detectable, it is exactly the same as if it does not exist.

I can't figure out what part of this is confusing to Lukvance.
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline eh!

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Re: Does God exists as a separate entity - separate from human brains?
« Reply #356 on: June 30, 2014, 04:06:50 PM »
Its like we are the ATHEISTS here. how can we explain the workings of god to a theist.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2014, 04:09:46 PM by eh! »
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Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: Does God exists as a separate entity - separate from human brains?
« Reply #357 on: June 30, 2014, 04:13:39 PM »
Next time i get a tough exam question i am just gonna write...."well lecturer how would you do it. tell me what you would write and if it is correct then that's my answer"

I know, right? Lukvance is the god expert here. How can he expect me to tell him how god heals an injured hand?

All I know is that if any healing of the hand is from god, it has to come from god to the hand somehow. If something is coming from god to the hand, that something will be detectable. If that something is not detectable, it is exactly the same as if it does not exist.

I can't figure out what part of this is confusing to Lukvance.
Jst,Luk,and Skep are ALL Biblical theology experts,problem is they all view each other as WRONG. Does anybody else find this as amusing as I do?
There's no right there's no wrong,there's just popular opinion (Brad Pitt as Jeffery Goines in 12 monkeys)

Offline eh!

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Re: Does God exists as a separate entity - separate from human brains?
« Reply #358 on: June 30, 2014, 04:26:09 PM »
I don't like to laugh at others expense but....... yep.
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Offline Lukvance

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Re: Does God exists as a separate entity - separate from human brains?
« Reply #359 on: July 01, 2014, 01:43:50 PM »
Lukvance, where is Darth Vader located? Where is Peter Pan located? Where might you find Cinderella? 

I can't say where god is located, because we have no evidence that god is even real. Remember that basic problem? Give me some evidence that god is real, and some objective, scientific ways to know where he is, and maybe then we can track him down and show where he is located. After that, we can see if we can detect any force coming from where god is to somebody who is healed.

God, if he is real, is either outside of people's minds or he is inside of people's minds--we agree on that. If god healed  the lady's hand, the whatever (force, energy, etc.) that healed would have to come from wherever god is located, either outside of people's minds, or inside their minds. If he really exists, that is.

If nothing can be detected coming from anywhere to the hand, that is,  there is not any difference between the hand before and after except the healing, you cannot say what it was that healed the hand. You cannot say it was a god, anymore than you can say it was Darth Vader, Peter Pan or Cinderella. Or the guy waiting at the bus stop down the street.[1]

You can only say that the hand was healed. And you do not know how or why or by whom. Because, by definition, you have no evidence of anything healing the hand. You only have the healed hand. That is the phenomenon you are trying to find out about.
 1. However, it is far more likely to be the guy at the bus stop who healed the lady's hand than your god. Guess why!
Here it is. You don't know what to expect because God is from an higher plane of existence than ours. All you can find is way that it wouldn't work not ways that it would.
Until you have a better solution you will have to accept the one who is supported by people that are way more verse in these mater than the both of us combined.
The argument of "we don't know where it's coming from" doesn't make sense because you don't know where it could be coming from. And if you knew then you would say it is not from God, it is from that source.
The scientific experiment is based on the fact that they looked for all other possible source (physical or spiritual) and concluded that their theory (it was God's doing) was right.
We have a hypothesis
We have tests available for this hypothesis
The event correspond to the hypothesis.
We draw the conclusion that the event was God's doing, hence God exist in the world outside human brain.
You disagree with me? Go ahead and ask people more verse than you in the scientific experimentation processes used for miracles.
I just talked to one not so long ago and he reassured me that the way miracles are declared is MORE STRICT than the ones used for other scientific hypothesis.
I could [support my claims], but you wouldn't understand. Others have tried and you can't or won't see it.

You're worth more than my time

Offline Lukvance

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Re: Does God exists as a separate entity - separate from human brains?
« Reply #360 on: July 01, 2014, 01:52:25 PM »
Since Reply #203 I don't see much about how the scientific method I used does not satisfy your exigences for the existence of God outside your mind.
I read a lot of people trying to "disprove" the pertinence of miracles but no one actually working on miracle cases.
It's like trying to "disprove" the pertinence of using the LHC without actually knowing what it exactly do.

Ask question: “Why do things fall downwards?”
Do background research: “Hmmm, most things fall down to earth, but some go up!
Things that go up do so because the displacement buoyancy is greater than the force pulling them down.
What is that force that pulls things down? 

Construct hypothesis: It is something to do with relative masses.
This would explain planetary motion and why Australians do not fall off the earth!

Test with experiment: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravimetry#How_gravity_is_measured

Does it work? Yes

Analyse data and draw conclusions: http://www.universetoday.com/57713/gravity-formula/

Results align with hypothesis

Communicate results to Lukvance who will give us the formula for proving mathematically that God exists outside our minds.
Ask question: “Why do people get magically healed?”
Do background research: “Most people who get sick go the the hospital and get cured by following medical assistance, but some of them just pray and get cures without medical assistance.
What is that force that cure them?"

Construct hypothesis: It is something to do with God.
This would explain why God is living outside our head.

Test with experiment: http://www.miraclehunter.com/marian_apparitions/approved_apparitions/lourdes/downloads/how_lourdes_cures_recognized.pdf

Does it work? Yes

Analyse data and draw conclusions: http://www.miraclehunter.com/marian_apparitions/approved_apparitions/lourdes/miracles1.html

Results align with hypothesis

Communicate results to you : There is a force curing people from illness. This force is God.
I could [support my claims], but you wouldn't understand. Others have tried and you can't or won't see it.

You're worth more than my time

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Does God exists as a separate entity - separate from human brains?
« Reply #361 on: July 01, 2014, 03:33:27 PM »
But Lukvance, you still seem to be missing this fact: you do not know what specifically has healed the hand or how it was done. In the absence of that very basic, very important information, you have inserted "god".

That insertion of "god" has not given any further information about what has healed the hand or how it was done. All we know is that we still don't know. Science does not have to "fill in the blanks" with stuff if we do not know something.

Scientifically, we can only say this: 

1) the hand just healed, seemingly by itself
2) we do not know how it happened, because we have eliminated all known causes 
3) we cannot detect anything that changed around the hand or inside the hand
4) the cause of the hand being healed is therefore currently unknown
Conclusion:
5) at this time, we do not know what healed the hand

That is what unknown means, Lukvance. It means you do not know. That does not mean you (or a priest) can make up any answer you like.

You could just as well fill in the "unknown" with a)"invisible, undetectable, purple people eater and part-time hand healer" or b)"Batman, who is so awesome he can miraculously heal hands from his underground lab in Gotham City".

Or you can fill in the "unknown" with c)"god, an invisible, undetectable, powerful magical being and part-time hand healer who is so awesome he can miraculously heal hands from his undisclosed location, wherever he is."

Explain the difference between statements a, b and c to us.

How can you jump into that unknown, and replace that lack of information with  "you do not know what it was, so therefore it had to be my version of god"? It does not make logical, scientific sense. You yourself have stated that some things thought to be miracles from god were later found to have a scientific explanation. Why assume that this is any different?[1]

Tomorrow the scientists might discover that the lady has a mutated gene in her blood that creates a substance that allowed her paralyzed hand to heal. They are able to synthesize the substance and it becomes available to medical doctors worldwide. Now everyone with paralysis becomes healed with a simple injection. Would the lady's healed hand still be a miracle from god?
 1. You keep stating that priests are the experts on miracle healings, because they pray and get information not available to scientists. If that is the case, how could "miracles" later have a scientific explanation? Did god give the priests wrong information? Or did the priests -gasp- make a mistake?
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline eh!

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Re: Does God exists as a separate entity - separate from human brains?
« Reply #362 on: July 01, 2014, 03:38:35 PM »
^ Easy, i want it ti be god. it could be god, so it is god.
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Offline Lukvance

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Re: Does God exists as a separate entity - separate from human brains?
« Reply #363 on: July 01, 2014, 04:18:16 PM »
How can you jump into that unknown, and replace that lack of information with  "you do not know what it was, so therefore it had to be my version of god"?
The scientific method didn't say it was unknown. You are the one saying it is despite what the scientific method proved you.

Quote
You yourself have stated that some things thought to be miracles from god were later found to have a scientific explanation. Why assume that this is any different?
For the same reason that some things thought to be the Higgs Boson were later found to not be it.
Quote
You keep stating that priests are the experts on miracle healings, because they pray and get information not available to scientists. If that is the case, how could "miracles" later have a scientific explanation? Did god give the priests wrong information? Or did the priests -gasp- make a mistake?
I don't remember saying that priest weren't scientists. They are a part of the scientific method I submitted to you. They are the experts when it comes to God maters.

Quote
Tomorrow the scientists might discover that the lady has a mutated gene in her blood that creates a substance that allowed her paralyzed hand to heal. They are able to synthesize the substance and it becomes available to medical doctors worldwide. Now everyone with paralysis becomes healed with a simple injection. Would the lady's healed hand still be a miracle from god?
They might, they might not. Until then it is a miracle. Like, until proven otherwise, the Higgs Boson has been found. We might (or might not) discover one day that it wasn't.
I could [support my claims], but you wouldn't understand. Others have tried and you can't or won't see it.

You're worth more than my time

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Does God exists as a separate entity - separate from human brains?
« Reply #364 on: July 01, 2014, 04:28:49 PM »
So the "experts when it comes to god matters" are getting wrong information from god or are they making mistakes? I am referring to the miracles that later are explained with actual medical science, not with "prayer science". And the priests are not behaving scientifically if they fill in the space "unknown" with "god" after asking that same god if it was him or not. &)

This is different from discovering particles in physics. The scientists are not saying they know something unless they do. If they do not know, they say it is unknown. They do not ask the particle if it is the Higgs Boson or not and then tell everyone what it said.
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

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Re: Does God exists as a separate entity - separate from human brains?
« Reply #365 on: July 01, 2014, 04:37:46 PM »
^ Lol, now the method of detecting the higgs particle is public domain. the particle hunters names and qualifications are public domain. the results of the higgs experiment are public domain.

all are verifiable and there is universal consensus on the qualifications of the people and the methods.



what are the names and qualifications and the published peer reviewed method and results of the miracle scientists.


can someone quote or repeat my question to luk as he has me on ignore cos he knows i know he is a fraud.
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Offline jaimehlers

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Re: Does God exists as a separate entity - separate from human brains?
« Reply #366 on: July 01, 2014, 05:13:24 PM »
It's all well and good to claim that God is on a higher plane of existence and that's why we can't detect him, but it does not change the fact we could detect him when he comes onto this 'plane' to do healings - or at least the means he uses to reach into this 'plane'.  And that leaves aside that arguing that God is on a higher plane is special pleading.

Unless Lukvance is prepared to show us actual evidence supporting this, any assertions he makes on the subject are essentially moot.  That's why his efforts to come up with a scientific hypothesis keep failing.  He's essentially begging the question by assuming that it's his god doing the healing without evidence to support it.  Trying to use the scientific method to justify his belief in miracles simply doesn't work, because it's not scientific to say "I don't know how this happened, so it must be a miracle from God" (which is an argument from ignorance).

Seriously, Lukvance, you've used at least three separate logical fallacies to support your belief.  Haven't you realized yet that when you engage in logical fallacies to support an argument, you only sabotage it?

Offline Lukvance

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Re: Does God exists as a separate entity - separate from human brains?
« Reply #367 on: July 01, 2014, 05:29:04 PM »
So the "experts when it comes to god matters" are getting wrong information from god or are they making mistakes? I am referring to the miracles that later are explained with actual medical science, not with "prayer science". And the priests are not behaving scientifically if they fill in the space "unknown" with "god" after asking that same god if it was him or not. &)
Until now I don't know of any miracles that has been "explained".

Quote
This is different from discovering particles in physics. The scientists are not saying they know something unless they do. If they do not know, they say it is unknown. They do not ask the particle if it is the Higgs Boson or not and then tell everyone what it said.
The same thing with miracle experts they don't say they know something unless they do. You are the one saying "they don't know". If they do not know, they say it is unknown. If they know it is not God's doing they say it is not God's doing.
I could [support my claims], but you wouldn't understand. Others have tried and you can't or won't see it.

You're worth more than my time

Offline Lukvance

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Re: Does God exists as a separate entity - separate from human brains?
« Reply #368 on: July 01, 2014, 05:31:27 PM »
Seriously, Lukvance, you've used at least three separate logical fallacies to support your belief.  Haven't you realized yet that when you engage in logical fallacies to support an argument, you only sabotage it?
Maybe you should quote me and prove your point instead of accusing me without basis.
I could [support my claims], but you wouldn't understand. Others have tried and you can't or won't see it.

You're worth more than my time

Offline eh!

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Re: Does God exists as a separate entity - separate from human brains?
« Reply #369 on: July 01, 2014, 05:39:00 PM »
That's how he weasels out by the time you finish explaining and quoting he will say he can't remember the question and aleady be on another subject.


what in gods name is a higher plane exactly. introduce an unknowable place to define an undectable being.
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Offline median

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Re: Does God exists as a separate entity - separate from human brains?
« Reply #370 on: July 01, 2014, 06:06:26 PM »
Here it is. You don't know what to expect because God is from an higher plane of existence than ours. All you can find is way that it wouldn't work not ways that it would.
Until you have a better solution you will have to accept the one who is supported by people that are way more verse in these mater than the both of us combined.
The argument of "we don't know where it's coming from" doesn't make sense because you don't know where it could be coming from. And if you knew then you would say it is not from God, it is from that source.
The scientific experiment is based on the fact that they looked for all other possible source (physical or spiritual) and concluded that their theory (it was God's doing) was right.
We have a hypothesis
We have tests available for this hypothesis
The event correspond to the hypothesis.
We draw the conclusion that the event was God's doing, hence God exist in the world outside human brain.
You disagree with me? Go ahead and ask people more verse than you in the scientific experimentation processes used for miracles.
I just talked to one not so long ago and he reassured me that the way miracles are declared is MORE STRICT than the ones used for other scientific hypothesis.

And just like a Muslim, you are simply taking someone else's CLAIM and believing it (uncritically) because it caters to your confirmation bias. But that isn't a reliable way of determining what is true from what is false in regards to extraordinary claims. For such claims, you need MORE evidence not less (or hear-say) - especially since you are basing your entire life upon these types of claims (i.e. - they are not trivial for you).

Secondly, you are again making a CLAIM that these people are "more versed" but that doesn't mean anything because we have examined their arguments and they are fallacious as well. Would you believe a group of Scientologists (or astrologers) who claim to be "more versed" than you? Their arguments amount to the fallacy of Argument from Ignorance/Incredulity. They basically say, "Well, we don't have any other explanation as to how this happened. So therefore, we are attributing it to God!" I exposed this when I responded to the video you posted. That argument is patently fallacious and irrational. It is the premier fallacy of the religious (better known as the God of the Gaps fallacy) and it fails as a valid argument because it is an attempt to explain a mystery by appealing to yet another mystery, which does not actually do any real explaining. Once again, the ancients did this with lightening and thunder (saying Zeus did it). They were wrong for using such an argument, and so are these alleged "experts" of yours, and so are you (for the same reason).

Furthermore, you do not have independent confirmation (by disinterested parties) on these claims that are being made by your alleged "well versed" people. You have people who already believe making assertions that the yet unexplained rare event must be Yahweh. That is just an assumption that neither you nor they can backup with evidence or sound reasoning. But notice how they don't conclude it's Allah, or Mithra, or Osiris, or Zeus, or Odin? It doesn't matter what person makes an argument from ignorance. It's irrational regardless of the person who uses it. Hey, I could claim that I have "experts" on astrology. Just because I (or they) claim that they are experts does that mean their conclusions are true? It's time to start practicing your skepticism more consistently across the board with these extraordinary and miraculous claims.

NOTE: edited for grammar etc.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2014, 06:12:45 PM by median »
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Carl Sagan

Offline jaimehlers

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Re: Does God exists as a separate entity - separate from human brains?
« Reply #371 on: July 01, 2014, 06:17:38 PM »
Maybe you should quote me and prove your point instead of accusing me without basis.
There's plenty of basis for my statements - all three of the fallacies I stated are quite clearly present in your writings.  You just don't apparently possess the self-honesty to admit it.  Even if I did cite specifics, you'd find some excuse to disregard it and keep acting the same way you've acted all along.

By claiming that your god is on a higher plane without evidence, you are engaging in the logical fallacy known as special pleading; you have shown no reason to justify why your god must be on a higher plane, and thus there is no reason to assume that he is.

By assuming that your god exists despite the lack of evidence, you are engaging in the logical fallacy known as begging the question; you do not actually know that your god exists, yet you point to events in the real world (such as healings) as 'evidence' for his existence even though you don't know what actually causes those events.

By claiming that healings that don't have a scientific explanation are examples of your god at work, you are engaging in the logical fallacy known as arguing from ignorance; you do not actually know what causes those healings, yet because a few priests got together and said it was your god, you assume that it must be.

Do not try to insult my intelligence again by playing these stupid lawyer games so you can pretend you aren't actually engaging in logical fallacies every time you type a post.  The longer you go without admitting it, the more dishonest you show yourself to be.  I realize it can be very difficult to acknowledge or recognize when you engage in some logical fallacy, but you aren't going to get anywhere by telling people that they need to cite the exact words you used (so you can then lawyer some more).

Answer me honestly- what have you actually accomplished in your entire time on this forum?

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Does God exists as a separate entity - separate from human brains?
« Reply #372 on: July 01, 2014, 06:28:03 PM »
Lukvance, how can the priests determine for sure if a phenomenon is god's doing or not, if god operates on a different plane that cannot be detected by any physical means?

And, if you say that the priests ask god whether it was his miracle, and he tells them, you are going to get popped upside the head by the Higgs Boson. Because asking the phenomenon to explain itself is not scientific.

That would be like asking a cancerous tumor what kind it is, how it would like to be cured. :P
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline Lukvance

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Re: Does God exists as a separate entity - separate from human brains?
« Reply #373 on: July 01, 2014, 07:25:04 PM »
Would you believe a group of Scientologists (or astrologers) who claim to be "more versed" than you?
Yes.
Quote
But notice how they don't conclude it's Allah, or Mithra, or Osiris, or Zeus, or Odin?
Yes
Quote
Just because I (or they) claim that they are experts does that mean their conclusions are true?
If it fits the scientific method then yes.
I could [support my claims], but you wouldn't understand. Others have tried and you can't or won't see it.

You're worth more than my time

Offline Lukvance

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Re: Does God exists as a separate entity - separate from human brains?
« Reply #374 on: July 01, 2014, 07:26:03 PM »
Answer me honestly- what have you actually accomplished in your entire time on this forum?
I hope more than you :)
I could [support my claims], but you wouldn't understand. Others have tried and you can't or won't see it.

You're worth more than my time

Offline Lukvance

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Re: Does God exists as a separate entity - separate from human brains?
« Reply #375 on: July 01, 2014, 07:28:40 PM »
Lukvance, how can the priests determine for sure if a phenomenon is god's doing or not, if god operates on a different plane that cannot be detected by any physical means?
That is what you think. They (and I) disagree with you. They determine if it's from God by following very strict rules, you should ask one of them about it.
I could [support my claims], but you wouldn't understand. Others have tried and you can't or won't see it.

You're worth more than my time

Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: Does God exists as a separate entity - separate from human brains?
« Reply #376 on: July 01, 2014, 07:30:58 PM »
Lukvance, how can the priests determine for sure if a phenomenon is god's doing or not, if god operates on a different plane that cannot be detected by any physical means?
That is what you think. They (and I) disagree with you. They determine if it's from God by following very strict rules, you should ask one of them about it.
any proof for this statement?
There's no right there's no wrong,there's just popular opinion (Brad Pitt as Jeffery Goines in 12 monkeys)