Author Topic: Women. Religion’s longest running victims.  (Read 1780 times)

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Offline Graybeard

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Re: Women. Religion’s longest running victims.
« Reply #203 on: August 31, 2014, 05:39:01 PM »
Today, in the CCC, we can read what Christianity teaches about women :
<snip>
Now if you were to take a look at the Bible, you'd see the exact opposite. Women can't teach men, nor can they speak in churches, for example. Are you saying the Bible got it wrong?
Cue weaseling out of this blatant contradiction between the Bible and what christians believe.
You don't see the exact opposite in the bible. YOU, One Above All, might see the exact opposite.
You don't have all the years and experience and knowledge of the Greek words and context that the people working all their lives understanding the bible has. At one point you have to let the experts do their jobs.
So the Bible got it right, YOU might got it wrong (if you don't want to listen to the experts)
GENESIS
2:22 Eve created from Adam’s rib as a suitable assistant for a man.
3:16 Eve cursed with painful childbirth and domination by husband.
19:1-8 Rape virgin daughters instead of male angels.
20:2-12 Abraham prostitutes wife – again.
EXODUS
20:17 Wife as property.
21:4 Wife and children belong to the master.
21:7-11 OK to sell daughters. Female slaves can be used for sex. Polygamy permitted. Unwanted female slaves can be set “free” without payment of money.
22:18 Kill witches.
LEVITICUS
12:1-8 Childbirth unclean, Women need to make atonement after childbirth.
15:19-32 Menstruating women are unclean.
21:7 Priests must not marry prostitutes or divorcees.
21:9 Burn daughters.
21:13-14 Priest must marry virgin, not “used” woman.
NUMBERS
1:2 Census lists only men – women do not count.
5:11-31 Fidelity test for women only.
30:1-16 Woman’s vow invalid unless approved by her father or husband.
31:17-18 Kill all except virgins. Keep virgins for yourselves.
DEUTERONOMY
20:14 Take women, livestock as plunder.
22:13-21 Stone non-virgin bride.
22:23-24 Stone rapist and rape victim.
22:28 Rape victim must marry rapist; rape victim’s father compensated for depreciation of his property.
25:11-12 Cut woman’s hand for touching foe’s genitals.
24:1-5 Man can “send” wife from HIS house. Man must not marry “used” woman.
JUDGES
5:30 Women are spoils of war.
14:20 Samson gives wife to another man.
16:1 Samson visits prostitute.
CH 19 Concubine pack-raped and butchered.
21:10-12 Slaughtered all inc. women and children. Saved virgins for wives.
21:21 Abducted girls for wives.
1 SAMUEL
15:2-3 Attack Amalekites, kill men, women, children and livestock.
21:4-5 Men avoid defilement with women.
2 SAMUEL
5:13 David took many wives and concubines.
CH 13 Ammon rapes his own sister.
16:21-22 Absalom sleeps with his father’s concubines.
6:20-23 Mischal punished with barrenness.
1 KINGS
11:3 Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines.
2 KINGS
9:30-37 Brutal murder of Jezebel.
2 CHRONICLES
15:13 Put to death unbelievers.
11:21 Hoards of wives and concubines.
ESTHER
CH 1-2 Queen Vashti dethroned for disobedience; setting “bad” example to all other women.
PSALMS
51:5 Sinful since conception.
127:3 Sons are heritage from god.
PROVERBS
CH 5 Beware of wicked women!
CH 7 More of the above.
6:24 As above.
31:3 Do not waste strength on women.
ISAIAH
3:16-26 Lord punishes haughty women.
4:4 Filthy women.
13:16 Ravish wives, dash infants.
19:16 Will be like women! (insult to Egyptians)
EZEKIEL
9:6-7 Slaughter all including children.
CH 16 Prostitutes, stoning, promiscuity…
CH 23 Tale of two adulterous sisters – reads like the script of a pornographic film. I bet you weren’t told this story at Sunday school!
HOSEA
13:16 Rip pregnant women, dash little ones. (Another “pro-life” verse!)
NAHUM
3:4… wanton lust of a harlot… prostitution… witchcraft.
3:5 I will lift your skirts over your face!
3:13… Your troops are all women. (insult to Nineveh)
MATTHEW
5:32 Husband can divorce wife for adultery. Can wife divorce husband for the same?
CH 25 Sexist tale of ten virgins.
LUKE
2:22 Mary must be purified after birth of Jesus.
2:49 Jesus rebukes his mother.
I CORINTHIANS
11:2-10… Woman created for man.
14:34 Women must be silent in churches.
EPHESIANS
5:22-24 Wives must submit to husbands in everything.
COLOSSIANS
3:18 Wives submit to husbands.
3:22 Slaves must obey masters in everything.
I TIMOTHY
2:11-15 Woman must not have authority – she must be silent. Women can be saved with childbearing.
5:9-10 Widows should be faithful to husband and must wash saints’ feet.
1 PETER
2:18 Slaves submit to masters, even masters who are harsh.
3:1 Wives submit.
3:5-6 Sarah calls husband master.
REVELATION
CH 17 Destroy great prostitute.
14:4…they did not DEFILE themselves with women but kept themselves pure.
- See more at: http://www.religiouscriticism.com/bible/the-sexist-bible/#sthash.060DPNa2.dpuf

I didn't agree with all the above and have omitted some.

You will note that there are mentions of polygamy, but none of polyandry. This gives you the basic idea that, in Biblical times, women had the same status as cattle. The only exception was that widows were generally well-treated, but even then, it was through the grace of those in authority and not "as of right", and even then it was only 'nice' widows.

I've mentioned before the trouble that you have Luk: you're Catholic and thus know little or nothing about the Bible, yet here you are trying to explain it. Amazing! You really should read it.
Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

Online Nam

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Re: Women. Religion’s longest running victims.
« Reply #204 on: August 31, 2014, 08:42:09 PM »
Quote from: lukvance
You don't have all the years and experience and knowledge of the Greek words and context that the people working all their lives understanding the bible has. At one point you have to let the experts do their jobs.

That's the problem with literal texts from Biblegod: it takes a person's entire life to understand it but even then they're probably just making it up in an act of defeatism.

If it takes more than two reads: it ain't worth anything.

-Nam
A god is like a rock: it does absolutely nothing until someone or something forces it to do something. The only capability the rock has is doing nothing until another force compels it physically to move.

The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously - Humphrey

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Women. Religion’s longest running victims.
« Reply #205 on: Yesterday at 01:14:41 AM »
So you have to trust the people in authority who, supposedly, understand what god wants, and have read the Greek and Hebrew and whatnot.

Therefore, when the Catholic leadership tells you to burn women at the stake as witches, or to torture Protestants, or to slaughter native people and enslave them, or to go and kill everyone between Jerusalem and Italy, you do it.

Because you know they are correct. They understand Greek and whatnot. :P
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline Greatest I am

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Re: Women. Religion’s longest running victims.
« Reply #206 on: Yesterday at 08:33:37 PM »
So you have to trust the people in authority who, supposedly, understand what god wants, and have read the Greek and Hebrew and whatnot.

Therefore, when the Catholic leadership tells you to burn women at the stake as witches, or to torture Protestants, or to slaughter native people and enslave them, or to go and kill everyone between Jerusalem and Italy, you do it.

Because you know they are correct. They understand Greek and whatnot. :P

But of course. That is why the Inquisition killed any who dared read the Bible except approved talking heads.

I mean, the Dark Ages would still be here if Christianity had their way.

The last thing religions want is an intelligent population because they would not believe all the lies.

Regards
DL

Offline jdawg70

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Re: Women. Religion’s longest running victims.
« Reply #207 on: Today at 10:04:12 AM »
But of course. That is why the Inquisition killed any who dared read the Bible except approved talking heads.

I mean, the Dark Ages would still be here if Christianity had their way.

The last thing religions want is an intelligent population because they would not believe all the lies.

<pedantry>
I find it weird that you're often times very sweeping and general to accuse 'religion' of things, and only very occasionally do you qualify those statements with 'except my religion':
Except for my religion of course.

I suspect it's mostly just a language issue[1].  But I wanted to bring it up mainly because the thread itself speaks in terms of generalities (Women.  Religion's longest running victims.), and it just comes off as a little sloppy.  Just go with 'most religions' or 'a lot of religions' or 'some religions' or somesuch in the future.

But clearly, when you say "The last thing religions want is an intelligent population because they would not believe all the lies" you don't mean that such a thing is a necessary feature of religion.  You clearly mean the last thing that some religions want is yadayadayada.  Alternatively, your worldview of Gnostic Christianity isn't something that you consider a religion.  But take your pick.
</pedantry>
 1. If I recall correctly, English is not your primary language.
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."
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Offline Greatest I am

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Re: Women. Religion’s longest running victims.
« Reply #208 on: Today at 12:31:40 PM »
Yes. Stupid people are a requirement of any religion based on woo.

Political correctness I leave to liars.

Regards
DL

Offline jdawg70

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Re: Women. Religion’s longest running victims.
« Reply #209 on: Today at 02:24:46 PM »
Yes. Stupid people are a requirement of any religion based on woo.
I disagree.  Desperation can easily substitute for stupidity as a goad towards accepting woo.  Intelligent people are certainly capable of believing dumb things.

Quote
Political correctness I leave to liars.
I have no idea where this is coming from, but okie-dokie.
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."
- Eddie Izzard

Offline Lukvance

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Re: Women. Religion’s longest running victims.
« Reply #210 on: Today at 03:34:25 PM »
Today, in the CCC, we can read what Christianity teaches about women :
<snip>
Now if you were to take a look at the Bible, you'd see the exact opposite. Women can't teach men, nor can they speak in churches, for example. Are you saying the Bible got it wrong?
Cue weaseling out of this blatant contradiction between the Bible and what christians believe.
You don't see the exact opposite in the bible. YOU, One Above All, might see the exact opposite.
You don't have all the years and experience and knowledge of the Greek words and context that the people working all their lives understanding the bible has. At one point you have to let the experts do their jobs.
So the Bible got it right, YOU might got it wrong (if you don't want to listen to the experts)
http://www.religiouscriticism.com/bible/the-sexist-bible/#sthash.060DPNa2.dpuf

I didn't agree with all the above and have omitted some.

You will note that there are mentions of polygamy, but none of polyandry. This gives you the basic idea that, in Biblical times, women had the same status as cattle. The only exception was that widows were generally well-treated, but even then, it was through the grace of those in authority and not "as of right", and even then it was only 'nice' widows.

I've mentioned before the trouble that you have Luk: you're Catholic and thus know little or nothing about the Bible, yet here you are trying to explain it. Amazing! You really should read it.
The idea that women are the same as cattle BECAUSE of the bible is an uneducated idea. It's supported by people who still think that the Old testament relate facts and is not just a story.
I've read the Bible. Unlike you, I think, I've read it with the help of knowledgeable people, not by myself alone. Every time I've read something that I did not understand I asked some knowledgeable people about it. That is why I can safely say that Religion does not TEACH inequality between men and women.
It is only peoples mistakes that created such difference.
Blaming religion for the way women were treated is as if students at school who did not understood what the teacher said and blamed school. That is nonsense.
You're worth more than my time

Offline One Above All

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Re: Women. Religion’s longest running victims.
« Reply #211 on: Today at 03:44:27 PM »
It's supported by people who still think that the Old testament relate facts and is not just a story.

So YHWH didn't create mankind?
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

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Offline Greatest I am

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Re: Women. Religion’s longest running victims.
« Reply #212 on: Today at 03:54:24 PM »
Yes. Stupid people are a requirement of any religion based on woo.
I disagree.  Desperation can easily substitute for stupidity as a goad towards accepting woo.  Intelligent people are certainly capable of believing dumb things.

Quote
Political correctness I leave to liars.
I have no idea where this is coming from, but okie-dokie.

I do not see disagreement. I see another category.

My political correctness comment was indicating that I could have softened the word stupid.

Regards
DL

Offline Greatest I am

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Re: Women. Religion’s longest running victims.
« Reply #213 on: Today at 04:03:33 PM »
Today, in the CCC, we can read what Christianity teaches about women :
<snip>
Now if you were to take a look at the Bible, you'd see the exact opposite. Women can't teach men, nor can they speak in churches, for example. Are you saying the Bible got it wrong?
Cue weaseling out of this blatant contradiction between the Bible and what christians believe.
You don't see the exact opposite in the bible. YOU, One Above All, might see the exact opposite.
You don't have all the years and experience and knowledge of the Greek words and context that the people working all their lives understanding the bible has. At one point you have to let the experts do their jobs.
So the Bible got it right, YOU might got it wrong (if you don't want to listen to the experts)
http://www.religiouscriticism.com/bible/the-sexist-bible/#sthash.060DPNa2.dpuf

I didn't agree with all the above and have omitted some.

You will note that there are mentions of polygamy, but none of polyandry. This gives you the basic idea that, in Biblical times, women had the same status as cattle. The only exception was that widows were generally well-treated, but even then, it was through the grace of those in authority and not "as of right", and even then it was only 'nice' widows.

I've mentioned before the trouble that you have Luk: you're Catholic and thus know little or nothing about the Bible, yet here you are trying to explain it. Amazing! You really should read it.
The idea that women are the same as cattle BECAUSE of the bible is an uneducated idea. It's supported by people who still think that the Old testament relate facts and is not just a story.
I've read the Bible. Unlike you, I think, I've read it with the help of knowledgeable people, not by myself alone. Every time I've read something that I did not understand I asked some knowledgeable people about it. That is why I can safely say that Religion does not TEACH inequality between men and women.
It is only peoples mistakes that created such difference.
Blaming religion for the way women were treated is as if students at school who did not understood what the teacher said and blamed school. That is nonsense.

He will rule over you is not a statement that is hard to miss-represent.

As to equality and the worth of women to Christianity, did the learned men who taught you ever tell you why women are further down the line than someone's home in the coveting commandment?

Tenth Commandment (Exodus 20:14):You shall not covet your neighbor's house, nor his wife, his man-servant, his maid-servant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor anything that is your neighbor's.

This makes it sound like the wife is owned.

Regards
DL